wowbagger

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wowbagger last won the day on September 28 2016

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  1. I guess my thing is not that Amy and Sheldon have to love everything the other does. It is more that a ) the show seems to portray interests such as trains and comic con as some sort of adorable infantile pursuit that may be indulged, but should really be outgrown. b ) and moreover, that said interests are harboured disproportionately by the guys c ) and basically that an engine of the plot rather too often is that the partners don't get the other's interests. and honestly the show can do better. This season, Shamy have been written frequently with more freshness and they've been allowed to have specific interests, or even to let the other person go away and do things they enjoy without implying an exhausted eyeroll or a disparaging remark or whatever.
  2. the teasing in the tag made me roll my eyes, frankly. It came off as that exhausted old chestnut of 'sheldon says a thing that could be construed as leading up to sex, Amy gets all excited because apparently she has had a head injury and has forgotten that Sheldon doesn't do innuendo*, and BAZINGA!' Combined with the no less exhausted narrative trope of 'one partner wants to do a thing, the other partner does not enter into their interests. Because tee hee, men and women or something.' Oh yes. How very fresh and exciting. Be still my ovaries. Etcetera. *except when he is trying to seduce her, in which case a number of appallingly direct suggestions will have been made first anyway.
  3. heeheehee!!!! Now, to be clear, I do think the show means us to think that Sheldon and Amy have had penis-in-vagina sex. You know - real sex (eyeroll). BUT. I confess I would crack up if I discovered that all along both these highly educated people thought that 'sex' meant 'bouncing up and down on the bed and making 'uh uh' sounds'. With, okay, their bloomers off. That would slay me.
  4. Ship Zone

    @sarah7, I suspect there's a bit of a syllogism in the reasoning there. I don't disagree with many of your basic propositions, but I can't follow you to some of the inferences you draw. Regarding Shamy and coitus specifically: Proposition 1: The showrunners frequently tank Amy's characterisation in service of whatever story they want to tell for Sheldon. Here I agree*. Proposition 2: No woman with a 'normal' libido would stick around for a relationship with Sheldon, particularly in the absence of the shared interests and intellectual companionship of their early days. Here again I agree. Inference: Therefore, Amy is a woman with a normal libido, whose desires are being suppressed or at least handwaved by the showrunners in service of Sheldon. And this is where I must respectfully disagree. I don't think you can draw this conclusion from propositions 1 and 2. This is like saying 'all dogs are animals, some dogs have spots, therefore all animals have spots'. The first and second clauses are true, but you need a lot more information before you can make the claim in the third clause. Specifically, I think we need to support the claim that a substantial part of Amy's satisfaction in her relationship with Sheldon stems from sexual intimacy, and that she needs more than she gets. And I would argue that neither seems to be true. 1) Amy may fancy Sheldon - and it is true that of all the women on the show, Amy is the one whose desire has been articulated more often than the others. Unfortunately, at least a little part of that I suspect came from mocking the frumpy girl, or more charitably what the showrunners consider the sheer absurdity of anyone fancying Sheldon (as @April points out). 2) Amy's sexual dissatisfaction tended to be bundled together with a number of other issues, mostly centring around Sheldon's general selfishness/rudeness** and a lack of the fun the pair used to have. Now, it makes perfect sense to me at least that, once the showrunners started writing the pair as more in sync intellectually, the issue of sexual desire both resolved itself and became less salient. But in general the frustration about sex and romance also tended to occur in seasons when a lot of other stuff was wrong with the relationship. 3) All of which is to say: would Amy like more sex, maybe? She might. Do I think that sex is particularly important to her? I don't actually think so. And especially not if the relationship is fun in other ways. *I also think the showrunners frequently tank Sheldon's own characterisation in service of whatever story they want to tell, but that is a separate issue. **You don't need me to say that I think Amy's own unrealistic expectations, passive aggression, immaturity and poor communication contribute to the issue. But I'll say it anyway.
  5. Ship Zone

    I would agree with the point that if it is not in character for someone to be happy or complaisant about a state of affairs, then we can't let the showrunners get away with simply telling us that the character is happy, or is not unhappy. And I also do understand that there is a tendency of Shamy plots to serve whatever the writers think Sheldon needs as a character. And that can be frustrating for fans of Amy or in general good writing. Where I disagree is that Amy has such a high libido. What we have observed is that she didn't use to have a filter. She used to talk about masturbation - initially clinically, and then exuberantly. In the first case (cf. Sheldon and Amy's first date, with poor Penny in tow), I remind you that Sheldon joined in with the discussion of Amy's subjecting herself to experiments, and Sheldon's camp. And yes, I'm sure the world would think of Amy's experiences as more valid sexual experiences, but I submit that the issue here is not that Amy's more experienced than Sheldon or that she has more interest. The issue here is that both impersonal experiences are discussed by Sheldon and Amy with exactly the same clinical detachment. Amy could have had penetrative intercourse, Masters-and-Johnson style, with the entire neuroscience department of Harvard, and he and Amy would likely have discussed it the same way. In the second case, what we know is that Amy wanted to join in with girl bonding rituals. Penny was her first crush on the show, and is still the one who's had the most influence on her. @April and @mirs1 have already noted that 'wanting to join in with what you think of as girl talk and 'grown-up' stuff'=/= 'being ready to go all the time. or most of the time. or even a lot of the time.' I'll only add that on many of the occasions where Sheldon's initiated contact (Locomotive Manipulation kiss, Indecision Amalgamation kiss, Brain Bowl seduction), Amy has tended to perform a remarkably convincing impersonation of a wax effigy. Which is not to say that she doesn't want Sheldon, or anything like that. It does, however, suggest that she might be more comfortable talking the talk than walking the walk. And also maybe that she prefers being in the driver's seat?
  6. Seriously. If you enjoy the couple, then you probably enjoy loads of other things about them. If you don't enjoy the couple, surely you're sick to death of that discussion. Either way: let it go, show.
  7. Ship Zone

    Oh yes. As I say, I do think the show should drop it, because clearly the show seems to think that the frequency of intercourse is some sort of issue. And I am a little worried that the showrunners will think that, so long as they insist that Shamy have sex once a year and That is Weird Haha, then they can let the rest of Shamy's characterisation slide. As in: they'll let the science arguments and both Sheldon and Amy's pointed eccentricities go. Because hey! Once a year sex! They're still weird and different! Tee-hee! Get rid of that pathetic little crutch, show. By which I don't mean that the Shamy need to go at it like jackrabbits. I mean that I'm good with not hearing that 'once a year' gag again. Ever.
  8. Ship Zone

    I feel like a number of issues might be getting conflated here. Let me lay out my own position as clearly as I can, speaking for nobody else. It might help to clarify why some things bother some of us and not others. I was never interested in the frequency with which Sheldon and Amy had penetrative intercourse. My concern was always sexual DESIRE. What I mean by that is: Do Sheldon and Amy FANCY each other? Does the other's speech/actions/proximity induce elevated heart rate, dilated pupils, and/or a desire to engage in physical contact? That contact could be kissing or all those tedious bases. It may include penetrative intercourse, or it may not. It may be predicated on the other's physicality, or it may not. And, based on those parameters, I am mostly satisfied. Science arguments get the two worked up. Logic Moebius strips make Sheldon randy. Harry Potter cosplay makes him go 'wowza!'. Other examples that others will point out. BUT. If one is of the opinion that only penetrative intercourse counts, then I get that these examples don't address the issue. Also, on a separate note, I do think that the show should get rid of its obsession with the once a year thing. Not because I think it's such a big deal, or because either of the two principals in the relationship think it's such a big deal. But because THE SHOW seems to think it is a problem, and - well - physician, heal thyself. You think there's something weird about shamy not having sex more than once a year? Well they are two consenting adults who share a bed. Sheldon wanted to slip his cooper up amy's Farrah fowler in her lab. So go forth, my pretties, and make merry. Nobody cares. If it bothers you, show, you have the power to fix it. If you don't want to do anything about the situation, fantastic. But then maybe stop loudly talking about it like it's a problem. You want Sheldon and Amy to be unique? They are two brainy snobs who geek out about renaissance dancing and vexillology. They get hot and bothered about whose scientific rigour is the rigourest. Their coital frequency? Not on the list. Trust me. So long as they are shown to enjoy each other and we are shown WHY they enjoy each other, they can fuck, or not, as often as they like.
  9. I raised an eyebrow at Penny's 'You made me live with Sheldon' as well. I love Penny and I will always be Team Penny, but girl, what the hell. You offered. Sheldon is your surrogate brother too. At no point has the show suggested that it was ever more Leonard's idea than your own. Come the fuck on. That said, I do think Lenny have difficulty communicating, but I'm not holding my breath that the show will ever treat that seriously as a plot point and have the couple work on it. Not when poor communication is such a cheap and easy way to drive whatever conflict the writers need momentarily. And - sigh - not when it can be used to drive Sheldon's Epiphany Of The Moment. And yes, I am saying this as someone who really enjoyed the Shamy this episode. As to the rest: the Raj Focus Group thing was a potentially interesting idea that suffered from that relentless edit, edit, edit and the micro-scenes the show specialises in nowadays. Howard's dry asides were terrific. As to the end scene with Howard and Raj: now, this was really interesting to me because of how low-key it was. The show was playing it as two people thinking about what they would be like as a couple, without incessantly driving an elbow into our ribs and saying 'BUT THEY ARE BOTH MEN! WHICH MEANS THE COUPLE WOULD BE A GAY COUPLE! TWO HOMOSEXUALISTS! CHECK! US! OUT!!!!!!!!!!!' And that matter-of-fact approach was in itself really refreshing.
  10. Ship Zone

    I agree with you about the implications of the Opening Night Excitation in the light of the back half of Season Nine. It was part and parcel of what I thought of as a general nastiness and mean-spiritedness of the show at that time. In this season, however, starting from the fourth episode, I think the writers have course-corrected. The big thing that tips me off there, is the scene in the fourth episode where Sheldon and Amy are having their science argument, culminating in a make-out, albeit offscreen. That, to me, remains the biggest flag held up to the audience saying 'We got this. We fucked up, but we've got this now.' I think that sequence is relevant to this discussion for the following reasons: 1) Sheldon and Amy are being allowed to display cerebral interests and jargon; 2) In other words, in that moment, they are speaking in their own language. Obviously, we understand it, but the connotation is that they have entered their own world, while Lenny are watching; 3) Sheldon and Amy are challenging each other and shown to enjoy the challenge; 4) In fact, Sheldon provokes her into that dynamic; 5) And, of course, they get all worked up and power-walk out of there (note Sheldon's peremptory jerk of the head) to make out. And there is no indication that anything is being done here out of obligation or duty or anything other than Slap Slap Kiss. Sheldon and Amy are being allowed to display the braininess and eccentricity that drew me to them in the first place. Along with the exuberant, lofty intellectual snobbery that goes with the package. And the willingness to gambol into their own world with their own language and their own dialectical rules, leaving the Muggles beneath their chariot wheels. Those were the things that first drew them to each other too. So how fitting that it is a sequence like that with which the show signals The New Normal. As to The Brain Bowl: well, I am in the camp that Sheldon was so inflamed by his and Amy's act of creation that he wanted to continue the good work. He could have suggested IVF, but he wanted to bend her over the table then and there. That seems to betoken desire over and above reproduction, no? But even if you disagree about that: the reason that I am comfortable that Sheldon does desire Amy? Is that this season, instead of telling me that so-and-so unlocks the other's heart or whatever, we have been shown, multiple times, why the two would love and desire each other. In ways that have little to do with love or romance. Fun With Flags, eccentricity, philosophical discussions..it's been a while since I saw these two enjoy each other quite so much.
  11. the infantilisation isn't about the trains. I meant specifically this whole 'let's ship him off to get him out of the way' and to a degree even his burbling excitedly to a bored amy who doesn't want to drive him places. Which gave me a definite 'bored mommy' vibe. Now, to be clear: Nobody is saying amy has to be killed with excitement about trains, or that Sheldon should have outgrown trains. At least I am not. But I feel like THE SHOW is presenting it as some sort of pursuit that can be used as something shiny to get him out of the grownups' hair (of course the grownups come crawling back!). I don't know, it seemed off to me.
  12. this show makes me understand what it must be like to be a billionaire. Hear me out. What must it be like to know that you can call on character actors this well-loved and this good, and then throw them away on three hastily crapped-out lines? The colonel. Christopher Lloyd. The academy-award-winning actor they got to play meemaw in that wretched episode? But I get it. Other shows would give their left nut/tit (delete as appropriate) for actors of that calibre to star in their shows. But tbbt can afford to have f Murray Abraham play, like, a doorman with no lines. This is privilege, pure and simple. otherwise this episode was a big old shrug. Howard and Bernie were funny. Kunal nayyar cracked me up with his hissed 'She was blowing a spit bubble. It was ADORABLE!'. Something about that line reading slew me. Poor nayyar. He deserves better. Amy started off promisingly with her renaissance dance and her red bra strap and her overpronounced Spanish. But the whining about marriage and not getting any younger made me roll my eyes. Whatever, I'll chalk it up to her well-documented desire to join in with whatever girl talk penny and Bernie have going on, rather than any sincere feeling. Sheldon was - you know - also there? I do like his enjoyment of trains, but I am slightly worried that they went the 'infantilisation' route with him this episode? With people buying him expensive gifts (#romantic!Shelnard#the truth is in there) to get him out of the house and so on? Which, combined with his Wet Overalls scene, just feels like they're sexualising the little boy? It's creepy. I don't know. It's not the worst but I'd grade it somewhere in the low 'C's.
  13. I have to ask: in the early days of this show, when Penny was wearing skimpy outfits so often and there was way less of this objectionably titillating male nudity, did you use to go online and tut 'Not really trying for female viewers from those pictures'?
  14. Ship Zone

    yeah the syntax of that line was super confusing to me. Does it mean that amy's dad was bad at reading people and she learnt to be proud of him for when he managed it? Does it mean that AMY was bad at reading people and her DAD was proud of her when she managed to successfully figure out what someone felt? Does it mean that SOMEONE was bad at reading people and amy learnt from her dad to be appreciative when they.made the effort? who can say. I am glumly leaning towards the first explanation because this sort of 'because DADDY/MOMMY!' Freudianism is a perennial favourite if the show. but honestly that structure is so garbled that I can't say. All we can glean is that amy has, or had, a father, with whom she has, or had, some form of relationship over some period of time. which is still infinitely more than we knew before so yay? Otherwise I had a vision of two mad scientists with a Miss Marple obsession disconsolately poking around a cage in a lab saying 'but where did Specimen AX97 go?'
  15. Ship Zone

    Shamy were charming this episode! From Amy gawping at Lenny's fight and the emotions detector (LOVED that she was tracking what the machine said as well), to Sheldon scanning her and rebuking her for her hypocrisy in her (totally half-hearted) 'Sheldon, stop enjoying their fight', to her kinda-sorta echoing Sheldon's thumbs down as they left 4a, to Amy making beefloaf because she knows Sheldon doesn't like the non-specificity of meatloaf. And then the scene in bed, which was really lovely. It's not my favourite this season, but that's also because this season has an insanely high bar. Jim Parsons has been called on to dial up the bigness and blueness of his pretty eyes before on occasion, but my favourite 'Sad Sheldon' moments have always been when he is quiet and bewildered. And I loved Amy just being all 'I WILL FIX THIS'. So much loveliness. And the mutual 'I love you just the way you are' were delivered with exactly the right blend of solemnity and matter-of-factness. Even Sheldon's 'put your glasses back on', if you like, is a symbolic 'When you say you love me, see me clearly so you know what you are saying'. And of course - holy shit, the show has acknowledged that Amy was not spontaneously generated in a wool-and-polyester-sweater-factory explosion!