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bigbangsheldon

Spoilers S7 Spoilers

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Posted (edited)

For me it's not about Penny being in topless in a movie.  It's what the writers are doing to Leonard and as his fan I don't like it -  it's as if the writers have no clue who his character is.

Edited by ArmyGirl
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For me it's not about Penny being in topless in a movie. It's what the writers are doing to Leonard and as his fan I don't like it - it's as if the writers have no clue who his character is.

I went this way too, then I came back, because I can't see him being such a deliberate pig.

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I went this way too, then I came back, because I can't see him being such a deliberate pig.

 

 

If the character gets the Chuck Lorre treatment, it can go that way.  We more than have enough example of his not so great ideals for the characters on this show.

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I think that there are a number of ways out of this. First, Penny could be fine with it, as it was a commercial movie. Shoot, what can she say really? Any body could find it on the 'net. Second, she's shown that she is willing to use her assets to her and Leonard's advantage. She may think that if it scores him cred with the folks on the boat, and keeps him true to her, fine. That dress and push up bra in the tenure episode was not the outfit for a shy person. The previous issues with the blog and David Underhill is that they were private moments between her and a boyfriend, not her job. I did not get the sense that this was an adolescent showing off sort of thing.

The hug between Sheldon and Penny is also not much concern. First, Penny is a hugger. She initiated it, but she has done so several times. Second, hugging Penny does not carry the emotional baggage of touching Amy. Third, it sounds like Sheldon responded much like he did to the VD hug, where he just wanted it to be OVER.

I will be interested to see if the writing treated this episode as part one of a pair. Are we expected to see this episode standalone, or is it going to leave things hanging badly, such that a casual viewer would need the second episode immediately to make sense of it?

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Back in time for the goodness ! 

 

First off, thank you Jennifer for the great recap. Do no concern yourself for the exact order or sequence of events. Spoilers are to be taken as lovely amuse-bouches, not scientifically exact accounts of everything that happened. Great job !

 

 

The episode itself seems fine to me. I share Molly's lack of concern. Of course, things could play out terribly wrong but it does not feel like that to me (for the moment... I might sharpen my pitchfork later if necessary).

 

Sheldon and Penny hugging : perfectly in keeping with their relationship and not contradictory to Shamy principles, I believe. It has been pretty much established by now that Sheldon sees Penny as a relative, alternating between a sister (hence the constant bickering) and a mother figure (hence the Soft Kitty singing). There is no trace of romance between these two characters, nor could there ever be : the only utcome of such a mismatch would be a murder-suicide (I'll let you decide whose murder and whose suicide). In this instance, they are both lonely and both miss the same person. They rely on each other to get through this tough period, as they have in the past and the hug is part of that. What it is not is a foresign of any sexual/romantic chemistry. If anything, it is the opposite. Sheldon is afraid of intimacy with Amy because, with her, it would mean something.

In a somewhat similar fashion, Penny was fearful of engaging with Leonard in a romantic fashion for, with him unlike with all her other boyfriends from the past, it could never be a simple, mindless hookup. 

 

Amy and Bernadette... While it may seem a bit dire for Bernadette to advise Amy to "shop around", I believe it may have positive consequences or, at least, an encouraging subtext. Amy is a lovely young woman : she is very intelligent, funny (in a querky way), charming, loving, nice to a fault, quite lovely physically... She has a lot to offer and it is high time she realised that. It would be nice to see her appeal to someone other than Sheldon. Not to break them up (please, Shamys, do not murder me !) but to give her extra confidence in the knowledge that her romantic options are not limited to either Dr Cooper or lifelong celibacy. The woman needs a little ego boost !

 

The movie... Somebody on this thread mentioned the French and our laissez-faire attitude to boobies, and I can only agree. But more generally speaking, a topless scene in a movie does not mean said film is a porno. Penny might feel ashamed (perhaps because the movie was really not that good and she accepted to do it just to get a credit in something) but, in and by itself, there is nothing even remotely wrong about appearing topless or nude in a movie. Emma Thompson has done it, George Clooney has done it, Penelope Cruz has done it, Halle Berry has done it, Harvey Keitel has done it, Kate Winslet has done it (and done it and done it again). Who cares ? 

As for Leonard showing his crewmates the film, well. It is another instance of him not quite believing he gets to be her boyfriend. I have to say I find these occurences a bit "old" now : first there was the photograph he took to Comic Con, then Pr Proton's little wink-wink-nudge-nudge, now this... While I believe I understand the sentiment the writers are trying to convey (Leonard cannot believe his luck), the repetition makes, at times, Leonard look like a guy who does not appreciate his partner beyond the trophy factor. Tough balancing act and it may be time for the writers to find another way to communicate Leonard's joy.

Also, on a side note, am I the only one whose first reaction to the movie revelation was happiness because it showed Penny's acting CV was not limited to two plays (including one above a bowling alley) and a commercial ? 

 

Well, looking forward to the episode (and the new season). 

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Posted (edited)

Ok..here is what I have a problem with.  While each individual thing itself in the Sheldon/Penny scenes are not big issues, what bothers me most is out totally out of character most of they were:

 

1) Since when does Penny suddenly have the ability to play 3D chess when she just barely learned regular chess last season.  Sure she did great, but she never played 3D and now is playing with Sheldon like it is a normal thing.  Totally out of character for Penny...she would rather be reading fashion magazines or watching Americas Top Model.

2) Since when is Sheldon willing to act like a girl on a slumber party and share deep dark secrets?   Yet he suddenly is sharing deep secrets with Penny?  Where did that come from..especially from a man who thinks all his time should be spent solving the universe's problems?

3) What was the whole purpose of the topless movie in this episode?   It gave them a tag scene (which was rather of questionable taste and again not clear the purpose other than Leonard being out of character and playing "big man on campus").   But why was it important then to say that Sheldon not only knew of it but had watched it?  What purpose did that serve other than to rile up fans?  Is it to cause friction with Shamy down the road and with Amy/Penny down the road?  Because other than that I don't understand the purpose.  It was out of character for Sheldon to have wasted time several years ago and watch it given he only wanted to work all the time in early episodes of the show.

4) Sheldon has often times slept alone in his apartment so why suddenly does he feel a need to sleep in Penny's apartment?  Totally out of character again.  The only other time he did that was because he locked himself out of his apartment and he griped the whole time about that (didn't want to stay there).  So it is out of character.

5) In hearing from Jennifer, while Penny initiates the hug, Sheldon warms to it and hugs back for quite some time.  While he may have considered this like a mother or sibling kind of hug, it still is inconsistent that they make him so afraid of germs and touch that he can't even hold hands with Amy, can't return her hugs, yet suddenly can share a big hug with Penny.  It is very frustrating and inconsistent.  Either make him totally OCD about germs and touch aversion or let him show his poor, patient girlfriend some affection for a change.

 

Bottom line, it wasn't each individual action, it was the whole of it that was ridiculously out of character that was the problem. I also don't understand the purpose at all of any of it.  It was to show they miss Leonard...yes I get that...but that could have been expressed so many other ways and remained in character for all three characters really.   So was the making characters fall out of character to fit a story that they wanted to tell for some reason, or that will tie into something down the road, or was this truly a new direction they will be taking with the characters?  I would have liked to have said neither, but I really don't understand what they are doing at all.   I just hope it works itself out and gets back to being a bit funnier and more interesting of a show than what I saw here.

 

I did like the Amy/Bernie scenes and felt rather "meh" about Raj/Howard/Mrs. Davis scenes.

Edited by stardustmelody
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Posted (edited)

@Chiara, That was me, cos I love French cinema, but don't see enough any more. Glad you are back. Also,if La Perouse had sailed a bit faster...

peut etre que je parlerais francais.

Edited by Nogravitasatall
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I think this is a sign Sheldon is starting to become humanised, he has always had affection for Penny, it has always been a maternal brother-sister relationship. Penny prob felt lonely and Sheldon was their for her dont see any problem with that, if that mischaracterizes the characters, then maybe the writers were attempting to send the message Penny misses Leonard. But I do agree their are tons of inaccuracies here.

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Ok..here is what I have a problem with.  While each individual thing itself in the Sheldon/Penny scenes are not big issues, what bothers me most is out totally out of character most of they were:

 

1) Since when does Penny suddenly have the ability to play 3D chess when she just barely learned regular chess last season.  Sure she did great, but she never played 3D and now is playing with Sheldon like it is a normal thing.  Totally out of character for Penny...she would rather be reading fashion magazines or watching Americas Top Model.

 

Taking an interest in Leonard's activities?  Having Sheldon teach her so she can play Leonard when he gets back? You know, after he's back, she can suggest a game and see the look on his face. If so, we may not know anything about this until later in the season, or they may not bring it up again.  

 

 

2) Since when is Sheldon willing to act like a girl on a slumber party and share deep dark secrets?   Yet he suddenly is sharing deep secrets with Penny?  Where did that come from..especially from a man who thinks all his time should be spent solving the universe's problems?

This one you got me on. 

 

3) What was the whole purpose of the topless movie in this episode?   It gave them a tag scene (which was rather of questionable taste and again not clear the purpose other than Leonard being out of character and playing "big man on campus").   But why was it important then to say that Sheldon not only knew of it but had watched it?  What purpose did that serve other than to rile up fans?  Is it to cause friction with Shamy down the road and with Amy/Penny down the road?  Because other than that I don't understand the purpose.  It was out of character for Sheldon to have wasted time several years ago and watch it given he only wanted to work all the time in early episodes of the show.

Penny has a secret, and this is what they came up with? Did Sheldon see the whole movie or was it he only saw the topless part when Leonard pointed it out. Not that it matters as Sheldon has seen Penny naked in person, and Amy knows it (The Werewolf Transfomation+.

 

4) Sheldon has often times slept alone in his apartment so why suddenly does he feel a need to sleep in Penny's apartment?  Totally out of character again.  The only other time he did that was because he locked himself out of his apartment and he griped the whole time about that (didn't want to stay there).  So it is out of character.

Not quite. He was afraid to sleep alone in The Bozeman Reaction.

 

5) In hearing from Jennifer, while Penny initiates the hug, Sheldon warms to it and hugs back for quite some time.  While he may have considered this like a mother or sibling kind of hug, it still is inconsistent that they make him so afraid of germs and touch that he can't even hold hands with Amy, can't return her hugs, yet suddenly can share a big hug with Penny.  It is very frustrating and inconsistent.  Either make him totally OCD about germs and touch aversion or let him show his poor, patient girlfriend some affection for a change.

You're not going to know that until the edit. Did they have them hug for a while so they could get enough shots? Will it be edited into several segments, each lasting shorter than the entirety? Don't forget, Kaley delayed speaking in one part of the ILY, so she could look like she was holding back the tears. She expected them to edit it to shorten the time, they didn't. In the Tiara scene, they took several different shots among several different takes. Mayim mentions that not all of them had Jim with his hands on her back, patting it. Some just had his hands up, some with his hands around, but not on her back. Editing has a lot to due with how a scene looks.

 

Bottom line, it wasn't each individual action, it was the whole of it that was ridiculously out of character that was the problem. I also don't understand the purpose at all of any of it.  It was to show they miss Leonard...yes I get that...but that could have been expressed so many other ways and remained in character for all three characters really.   So was the making characters fall out of character to fit a story that they wanted to tell for some reason, or that will tie into something down the road, or was this truly a new direction they will be taking with the characters?  I would have liked to have said neither, but I really don't understand what they are doing at all.   I just hope it works itself out and gets back to being a bit funnier and more interesting of a show than what I saw here.

That's why I wouldn't worry about it until it airs. It may seem so much clearer then. If I remember, one of the people who went to a taping last year put the report up, and there was a lot of gnashing of teeth and upsetment. Someone who was upset went to the taping the next week, saw them play the final version before the next taping, and loved it. I know you're upset about it. But, until you see it and how it fits together, I don't see why you should be so upset. It may all make sense then. If it doesn't, then get upset. Star, I love all your posts, your tidbits of information and all. I really think you're over reacting here. I'm not trying to be an ass, here, just giving you possible alternatives.

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Posted (edited)

Ok..here is what I have a problem with.  While each individual thing itself in the Sheldon/Penny scenes are not big issues, what bothers me most is out totally out of character most of they were:

 

1) Since when does Penny suddenly have the ability to play 3D chess when she just barely learned regular chess last season.  Sure she did great, but she never played 3D and now is playing with Sheldon like it is a normal thing.  Totally out of character for Penny...she would rather be reading fashion magazines or watching Americas Top Model.

2) Since when is Sheldon willing to act like a girl on a slumber party and share deep dark secrets?   Yet he suddenly is sharing deep secrets with Penny?  Where did that come from..especially from a man who thinks all his time should be spent solving the universe's problems?

3) What was the whole purpose of the topless movie in this episode?   It gave them a tag scene (which was rather of questionable taste and again not clear the purpose other than Leonard being out of character and playing "big man on campus").   But why was it important then to say that Sheldon not only knew of it but had watched it?  What purpose did that serve other than to rile up fans?  Is it to cause friction with Shamy down the road and with Amy/Penny down the road?  Because other than that I don't understand the purpose.  It was out of character for Sheldon to have wasted time several years ago and watch it given he only wanted to work all the time in early episodes of the show.

4) Sheldon has often times slept alone in his apartment so why suddenly does he feel a need to sleep in Penny's apartment?  Totally out of character again.  The only other time he did that was because he locked himself out of his apartment and he griped the whole time about that (didn't want to stay there).  So it is out of character.

5) In hearing from Jennifer, while Penny initiates the hug, Sheldon warms to it and hugs back for quite some time.  While he may have considered this like a mother or sibling kind of hug, it still is inconsistent that they make him so afraid of germs and touch that he can't even hold hands with Amy, can't return her hugs, yet suddenly can share a big hug with Penny.  It is very frustrating and inconsistent.  Either make him totally OCD about germs and touch aversion or let him show his poor, patient girlfriend some affection for a change.

 

Bottom line, it wasn't each individual action, it was the whole of it that was ridiculously out of character that was the problem. I also don't understand the purpose at all of any of it.  It was to show they miss Leonard...yes I get that...but that could have been expressed so many other ways and remained in character for all three characters really.   So was the making characters fall out of character to fit a story that they wanted to tell for some reason, or that will tie into something down the road, or was this truly a new direction they will be taking with the characters?  I would have liked to have said neither, but I really don't understand what they are doing at all.   I just hope it works itself out and gets back to being a bit funnier and more interesting of a show than what I saw here.

 

I did like the Amy/Bernie scenes and felt rather "meh" about Raj/Howard/Mrs. Davis scenes.

 

1) We don't know how often Penny and Leonard might have played chess, nor in this instance, how often she may have played 3D chess with Sheldon.  I see it as shorthand for how much time has passed--they've been alone and bored enough for so many weeks that he has bothered to teach her to play 3D chess and she has bothered to go along with it.  If she grasped regular chess in one game well enough to beat Leonard, it's not inconceivable that she could learn 3D chess over the course of several weeks.  It could be that it's one of the few games they could both agree on.

 

2) How is Sheldon acting like a girl at a slumber party?  He had made Penny a cup of tea "to go"--meaning he was sending her on her way.  She's the one who insisted they talk, and we don't know what in the conversation led her to tell him her secret.  And what's his big, deep, dark secret?  He doesn't like the YouTube rating system??  Wow.  That's just like sharing the circumference of his areolas. :icon_rolleyes:  And it's no big deal that he saw the movie--it's not as if it affected him toward her all these years.  He was apparently as oblivious and uninterested in it as he has been in anything else of that nature.  He saw her bottom and her breasts when he helped her with her dislocated shoulder and he didn't care about it then, either.  It doesn't change anything about their relationship.  And Jennifer pointed out that Penny was apparently not impressed with Sheldon's idea of a secret to share.

 

3) I don't think we know why she told Sheldon about it--could it be something about her relationship with Leonard?  Maybe now that her feelings for Leonard are deeper and more settled, she's worried that he would think less of her if he knew about the movie.  Sheldon points out that Leonard already knows about the movie and it obviously hasn't changed the way he feels about her.  He hasn't judged her for it the way she apparently feared he might.  The tag at the end is just an echo of this conversation.  Not only is he not ashamed of her having done it (the way she seems to be ashamed of having done it), but he's using it to brag on her a bit.

 

4) Of course Sheldon sleeps alone in his apartment under normal circumstances.  He doesn't go to Penny's simply because he doesn't want to be alone.  He goes over there because his Kraken nightmare frightens him.  We've seen him cry out to Leonard following a nightmare before, and when the apartment was broken into, he got scared being by himself and wanted to be with Leonard and Penny.  He even almost invited himself to stay at Penny's, but he said that he didn't think that L&P would fit on Penny's couch (because he assumed that if he stayed over, he'd naturally sleep comfortably in a real bed.)  So he goes to her place after his nightmare and takes the bed, leaving her to sleep on the couch (implied, but certain.)

 

5) Jennifer doesn't say that they hugged for a long time.  Just that Sheldon kind of warmed to it a bit, which could mean anything.  I don't think that it means that all of a sudden he's turned into a hugger.  Penny forced him into the hug and he gave in, but that doesn't mean that he suddenly loves to hug.

 

Just my take on it all.

Edited by phantagrae
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Ok..here is what I have a problem with.  While each individual thing itself in the Sheldon/Penny scenes are not big issues, what bothers me most is out totally out of character most of they were:

 

1) Since when does Penny suddenly have the ability to play 3D chess when she just barely learned regular chess last season.  Sure she did great, but she never played 3D and now is playing with Sheldon like it is a normal thing.  Totally out of character for Penny...she would rather be reading fashion magazines or watching Americas Top Model.

2) Since when is Sheldon willing to act like a girl on a slumber party and share deep dark secrets?   Yet he suddenly is sharing deep secrets with Penny?  Where did that come from..especially from a man who thinks all his time should be spent solving the universe's problems?

3) What was the whole purpose of the topless movie in this episode?   It gave them a tag scene (which was rather of questionable taste and again not clear the purpose other than Leonard being out of character and playing "big man on campus").   But why was it important then to say that Sheldon not only knew of it but had watched it?  What purpose did that serve other than to rile up fans?  Is it to cause friction with Shamy down the road and with Amy/Penny down the road?  Because other than that I don't understand the purpose.  It was out of character for Sheldon to have wasted time several years ago and watch it given he only wanted to work all the time in early episodes of the show.

4) Sheldon has often times slept alone in his apartment so why suddenly does he feel a need to sleep in Penny's apartment?  Totally out of character again.  The only other time he did that was because he locked himself out of his apartment and he griped the whole time about that (didn't want to stay there).  So it is out of character.

5) In hearing from Jennifer, while Penny initiates the hug, Sheldon warms to it and hugs back for quite some time.  While he may have considered this like a mother or sibling kind of hug, it still is inconsistent that they make him so afraid of germs and touch that he can't even hold hands with Amy, can't return her hugs, yet suddenly can share a big hug with Penny.  It is very frustrating and inconsistent.  Either make him totally OCD about germs and touch aversion or let him show his poor, patient girlfriend some affection for a change.

 

Bottom line, it wasn't each individual action, it was the whole of it that was ridiculously out of character that was the problem. I also don't understand the purpose at all of any of it.  It was to show they miss Leonard...yes I get that...but that could have been expressed so many other ways and remained in character for all three characters really.   So was the making characters fall out of character to fit a story that they wanted to tell for some reason, or that will tie into something down the road, or was this truly a new direction they will be taking with the characters?  I would have liked to have said neither, but I really don't understand what they are doing at all.   I just hope it works itself out and gets back to being a bit funnier and more interesting of a show than what I saw here.

 

I did like the Amy/Bernie scenes and felt rather "meh" about Raj/Howard/Mrs. Davis scenes.

First of all it's been about four months since Leonard left, so Penny could have learned 3d chess (she's supposedly not going out on dates). Second this is part of the 'bonding' that Penny and Sheldon have done while Leonard's gone. Third, no one said Leonard was showing the topless scene to the others on the boat. Just because there's a shower scene in the movie doesn't mean that it's Leonard's go-to choice when he wants others to see Penny in the movie. It's not like Penny's just in that one scene, right? They mentioned the scene earlier in the episode and now everyone just assumes that's the scene he chooses to show to people? Fourth This is probably the longest time Sheldon's had to sleep alone since meeting Leonard. Even when Leonard slept somewhere else it was only for one or two nights and even then he was probably just over at Penny's or Sheldon was visiting his Mother.

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Posted (edited)

Tensor and eirwinrommel pretty much covered everything (and I agree) so I'll just mention the one thing they left out
 

2) Since when is Sheldon willing to act like a girl on a slumber party and share deep dark secrets?   Yet he suddenly is sharing deep secrets with Penny?  Where did that come from..especially from a man who thinks all his time should be spent solving the universe's problems?

In this episode, Sheldon is, for the first time in a really long time, sans enabler/nanny/carer/victim/brother/parental figure. So distraught is he that he has a nightmare at the beginning of the episode. If I were to play amateur psychologist, I would say that this occurence along with the meltdown he experienced when performing his little Star Trek-themed autobiographical play with Penny tend to point towards serious separation anxiety on Sheldon's part. 

 

For many different reasons (mostly a nice mélange of social inadequacy and smothering from Momma Cooper and Leonard), Sheldon is not self-reliant. He may believe he is, he may pretent he is, but he is not. At that point in the story, he needs and misses Leonard. So he goes to the next best thing, the only other person who has been something akin to a "parent" to him : Penny. 

Does he act a bit out of character when doing so ? Absolutely. But this is what he does when he is of-kilter. Case in point : Soft Kitty. Sheldon is not an emotional guy at all; he often ridicules what he considers mindless sentimentality. Yet, the moment he gets sick, he wants a mommy figure to sing his favourite lullaby from when he was a toddler. 

 

To Sheldon, missing Leonard is "a kind of sick". So he behaves accordingly and displays a rare patience for things he would otherwise consider useless. 

Edited by Chiara
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It occurs to me that Bernadette thinks the shamy is a joke (ala) love spell if she is trying to encourage Amy to go off with some random bloke, Sheldon should be informed

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First of all it's been about four months since Leonard left, so Penny could have learned 3d chess (she's supposedly not going out on dates). Second this is part of the 'bonding' that Penny and Sheldon have done while Leonard's gone. Third, no one said Leonard was showing the topless scene to the others on the boat. Just because there's a shower scene in the movie doesn't mean that it's Leonard's go-to choice when he wants others to see Penny in the movie. It's not like Penny's just in that one scene, right? They mentioned the scene earlier in the episode and now everyone just assumes that's the scene he chooses to show to people? Fourth This is probably the longest time Sheldon's had to sleep alone since meeting Leonard. Even when Leonard slept somewhere else it was only for one or two nights and even then he was probably just over at Penny's or Sheldon was visiting his Mother.

 

Very good points.

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It occurs to me that Bernadette thinks the shamy is a joke (ala) love spell if she is trying to encourage Amy to go off with some random bloke, Sheldon should be informed

Rachel, should someone have told Howard when Penny recommended Bernadette continue looking, even though she was engaged? Or, should the girls have told Sheldon when Amy suggested they all find random guys to pickup and take to the bathrooms for sex? The girls are out alone, they're saying things they probably will never talk about again.

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Posted (edited)

It occurs to me that Bernadette thinks the shamy is a joke (ala) love spell if she is trying to encourage Amy to go off with some random bloke, Sheldon should be informed

I believe that what is meant by 'Sheldon should be informed' is that he should be informed that Amy has other choices. And that if he (Sheldon) doesn't do something to show Amy some attention (and by attention I mean physical attention, even if it's only holding her hand (without being forced to) and kissing her on the cheek.) and generally treating her better, that Amy will start looking for someone who will. My impression is that Amy has fallen into the 'friend zone' and Sheldon treats her like one of the guys. If this were Buffy, Amy would be Sheldon's 'Amy shaped friend'. 

Edited by eirwinrommel
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^Exactly I think ppl are over reacting here, S7 is set 3-4 months after Leonard's departure, seeing Penny and Sheldon lives across the hall from each othet, who knows how many chess games, or how many bonding they've done. Seeing this is the longest time Sheldon has slept alone in the apartment, how do we know for sure how many times Sheldon in the middle of the night and knocked on her door "Penny Penny Penny!!!" haha. Sheldon by now could of slept on her couch a few times. The point of time exists four months after the S6 Finalie, alot has changed clearly. This is what the producers meant by Sheldon and Penny bonding. I agree no one said Penny was in a topless

scene in terms of what Leonard showed on the boat, he may of just wanted to show off his GF, doesent neccessarily mean he specefically showed that one scene, its just one scene. So as it may seem to ppl alot of character inaccuracies, or some out of character behaviour from particularly Sheldon, but he may have had to conditioned to the circumstances, Sheldon relys on Leonard alot more then she lets on, so he have fallen back on Penny. And the hug seems to me forced by Penny not initiated by Sheldon, got nothing to do with his relationship with Amy, just his relationship with Pennys is different, yes Amy is his girlfriend but Leonard is such a huge part of Sheldon and Pennys life, they are most likely bonding as a way of dealing with the void in their life. These are all points to consider and JMO.

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Rachel, should someone have told Howard when Penny recommended Bernadette continue looking, even though she was engaged? Or, should the girls have told Sheldon when Amy suggested they all find random guys to pickup and take to the bathrooms for sex? The girls are out alone, they're saying things they probably will never talk about again.

This goes to telling the story and creating the drama and situations. No one is snitching, telling tales, being underhanded or dobbing anyone in. Its all about the set up for the gag.

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Posted (edited)

It occurs to me that Bernadette thinks the shamy is a joke (ala) love spell if she is trying to encourage Amy to go off with some random bloke, Sheldon should be informed

For comedy purposes, it might be interesting. If there is one thing more painful to Sheldon than being pursued, it is being ignored and dismissed as second best. A little drop of jealousy might bring forth interesting results. 

 

In the overall context of the episode however, I believe we should be more relaxed. Let's face it, Howard and Sheldon are not easy to live with : one alternates between treating his wife like his mother and like his fling and the other has yet to open up to his girlfriend in a "normal" way. The girls are frustrated and lashing out. They wish things were different : Bernadette would like Howard to be a teeny bit more like Sheldon (not so clingy and sugar sweet) and Amy would like a zest of Howard in her Sheldon (especially the stripper pole thing, I would imagine). 

 

I do not believe Bernadette thinks Shamy is a joke per se. I assume she just does not understand how Amy can go on with it with so little feedback from Sheldon. In fairness, it is a justified interrogation. Most women would have given up on Shelly by now. Amy, as we know, has nerves of steel but it is a lot to take for one romantic biologist. Bernadette is allowed to let Amy know she has other options and Amy should be aware of them, just for the sake of her self-esteem. 

Edited by Chiara

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Posted (edited)

I believe that what is meant by 'Sheldon should be informed' is that he should be informed that Amy has other choices. And that if he (Sheldon) doesn't do something to show Amy some attention (and by attention I mean physical attention, even if it's only holding her hand (without being forced to) and kissing her on the cheek.) and generally treating her better, that Amy will start looking for someone who will. My impression is that Amy has fallen into the 'friend zone' and Sheldon treats her like one of the guys. If this were Buffy, Amy would be Sheldon's 'Amy shaped friend'.

I meant Amy should tell Sheldon what Bernadette tried to do

For comedy purposes, it might be interesting. If there is one thing more painful to Sheldon than being pursued, it is being ignored and dismissed as second best. A little drop of jealousy might bring forth interesting results.

In the overall context of the episode however, I believe we should be more relaxed. Let's face it, Howard and Sheldon are not easy to live with : one alternates between treating his wife like his mother and like his fling and the other has yet to open up to his girlfriend in a "normal" way. The girls are frustrated and lashing out. They wish things were different : Bernadette would like Howard to be a teeny bit more like Sheldon (not so clingy and sugar sweet) and Amy would like a zest of Howard in her Sheldon (especially the stripper pole thing, I would imagine).

I do not believe Bernadette thinks Shamy is a joke per se. I assume she just does not understand how Amy can go on with it with so little feedback from Sheldon. In fairness, it is a justified interrogation. Most women would have given up on Shelly by now. Amy, as we know, has nerves of steel but it is a lot to take for one romantic biologist. Bernadette is allowed to let Amy know she has other options and Amy should be aware of them, just for the sake of her self-esteem.

I'm guessing Amy didnt tell the girls what was said in the bedroom and rightly so!

Rachel, should someone have told Howard when Penny recommended Bernadette continue looking, even though she was engaged? Or, should the girls have told Sheldon when Amy suggested they all find random guys to pickup and take to the bathrooms for sex? The girls are out alone, they're saying things they probably will never talk about again.

Penny was out of order in that episode telling both there is other options

I don't remember about Amy saying about going to bathrooms for sex? You may have to remind me!

Edited by rachelshamyfan

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Posted (edited)

Six way with the Blue Man group, in Vegas, before she broke the nose of the handsy TSA agent. Something happened after that that may have distracted you. Hehheh :) ... Dice or something.

Edited by Nogravitasatall

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Posted

I read the report for the second time - thank you, Jennifer for posting it here - and I realized it's not something to worry too much. We had already received many spoilers of this episode, some of us have imagined that these things could happening. I have thought, for example, Penny and Sheldon's hug, I confess I didn't think it would be that way, after he said she hurt their feelings. Why the hell did he say that? He is not hippie. But it's normal they spend more time together, as they do usually only three of them (P, L and S) when Leonard is there. They are neighbors and friends. This is not bad or surprising, even though I'm not a Shenny fan, anyway.
As for Raj, I must say that I hope he gets happier in the course of the season, I felt very sorry for him at the end of six season, it's very difficult to be the only one without a girlfriend, anyway, better days will come - I hope so.
I liked the scenes with Amy and Bernadette. I think Bernadette only said that because she isn't aware of the complexity of the Amy and Sheldon's relationship. Nobody is really. I liked the fact that Amy had refused Bernie's advice and other scenes also seem to be fun.
And finally, Leonard and the video. I don't think he has done something really bad or that Penny has the right to be upset with him know that. She made the film first because she wanted it, and it was already on the Internet. Of course people would see. And I don't know how the video was introduced , but if he and the guys were already watching, Leonard is normal to speak with pride that girl of nice breasts is his girlfriend. It's like if even he couldn't believe. He doesn't become a fool for it. I believe that this ending was pretty funny. Just wait to see how things will stay until the episode is released. Then each can have its point of view on something concrete and not in a report made by the eyes of others.
And sorry my bad English. I don't speak English.

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Right, now that I've slept on it, I'm going to give my longer analysis of the situation.

 

Upon receiving further info, I do not believe this premiere is as bad as it sounded at first. But I also do think there are some issues with it.

 

Re: Sheldon sleeping over at Penny's and hanging out with her. I think it's important to note that, while it was an obvious plot device, the writers had him do all of that while Amy is out of town. I agree with Chiara that this might be the very first time in an awful long time Sheldon has been completely alone. I think his going to sleep over at Penny's was more to underline how distressed he was over the Leonard nightmare than anything else. In fact, he just storms into her room and shuts the door. Hardly like he asked to cuddle. And it is the typical kind of mother-child behavior they love to play with. I was actually not expecting them to imply communication between him and Amy at all in this episode, but to ignore it altogether. That goodnight phone call gave me so many fuzzy feels you have no idea. The fact that he worries about her catching bed bugs to the point that he asks whether she'd consider sleeping in a garment bag is so Shamyromantic I could just die. Like I said, never thought bed bugs would give me feels.

 

Re: Leonard. I do think Leonard comes across pretty bad in this episode. I understand making the point that he isn't moping on the boat and I understand making the point that Penny is missing him for a change, after being so dismissive of him for a long time, but I thought it would have been nice to show at least an inkling of him missing her, I think. I also think that the whole showing the topless scene to his mates while it's obvious Penny does not want anyone to know, is not cool. We do know he showed that particular scene because it cuts from showing the scene of Penny in the shower to Leonard showing it to people and going "That's my girlfriend!"

 

Re: A/B. I said what I needed to say about that scene. I thought that Bernadette came across truly awful at first, but I am glad to hear that she regretted what she said almost instantly. And it's fantastic to see Amy stand up for herself and her boyfriend like that. Like I said, I was actually worried this scene would be the lead-in for a possible breakup, with Amy showing hints that she does want intimacy more than she wants Sheldon and being charmed/flirting with other guys. But if the writers are making a deliberate point that it's the complete opposite and that she's actually quite defensive about it all, it can only be good for her character, since so many think she just wants a boyfriend/sex, rather than wanting Sheldon.

 

Re: Raj. I'm glad they showed him miss Lucy because I do think he got over her way too quickly in the finale. Other than that though, I don't find his story all that compelling.

 

And now to the big one. The S/P hug. I think I'm going to refrain on having an opinion on it until we are well into the season and I can see what they're going to do with Shamy. Nobody is worried about romantic Shenny at all (and, if you are, then you are a bit delusional, IMO) and there's nothing wrong with two friends hugging, especially since it's clear Sheldon did not want to at first. However, I do strongly agree that it is terrible to show him be fine with hugging other people (and I made this comment last season when he hugged Professor Proton) when his poor, patient girlfriend is so affection-starved, committed and faithful. And, on top of that, the show makes the point that the only reason he isn't affectionate with her is because he "is uncomfortable with the sort o physical contact that comes easily to others". Now, we know he's been working on it, and this might be one example that he has been getting better. But then I'd better not see him ever shoot Amy down again this season over hand-holding or hugging. Otherwise you have a glaring character inconsistency. Because as much as we can all speculate that it's because with Amy it's different from Penny, there has never been any indication on the show that Sheldon is in any sort of internal turmoil over the feelings touching Amy elicits in him. Ever. So the writers need to either be consistent from here on, and let him be a bit more physical with Amy, or make that point loud and clear that he has sexual feelings for her that he is still learning to handle. Otherwise it is just a terrible unbalance in the relationship and in Sheldon as a character and I would start questioning his feelings for her.

 

The other thing I found odd about the hug is that Jennifer said they did 3 takes because they explicitly asked the audience not to "awww" or make any noise. Now, if the point of the hug is to show a poignant moment over them missing Leonard, and that's why they want the audience to keep quiet, fine. I gather that Sheldon might be fairly rattled over missing Leonard, although in denial, so it would be nice to show that. If the point of the hug is to show some sort of Sheldon milestone in being affectionate, then I think it's pretty terrible in relation to Shamy. Especially considering that Shamy had a couple of very poignant and intimate scenes last season when they let the audience just laugh over when I thought it was very out of place (e.g. when he tells her about the EC on V-day or at the very beginning of their D&D roleplay). Maybe Jennifer can clarify when she is next online. 

 

All in all, I think it's a rather odd season opener. But, like we said earlier, this show has a tendency to go for pretty weird and mean season openers only to then fix it all up as the season progresses. So we'll see how things evolve from here on to November sweeps.

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Posted (edited)

I'm guessing Amy didnt tell the girls what was said in the bedroom and rightly so!

The bedroom scene was definitely a breakthrough and if Sheldon proves he is willing to keep on trying, then everything is great. 

 

However one has to consider viewpoints. Bernadette's "allegiance", if I can phrase it like that, lies first with Amy, not Sheldon or the Shamy as an entity. While Bernie likes Cooper and is a good friend to him, they are not particularly close. Conversely, Amy is one of her dearest friends : it makes perfect sense to me that she would give priority to her pal's happiness and, if she sincerely feels Amy is not as happy as she could be because of Sheldon, she has every right to mention it to her. 

The same logic applies to Penny and her advise to Bernadette : Penny, for quite some time, was not particularly fond of Howard (for good reasons, I believe). However, she likes Bernadette very much. So she told her friend to do what was best for her. Not Howard or their pairing. 

 

I don't remember about Amy saying about going to bathrooms for sex? You may have to remind me!

"So, what’s the plan? Are we gonna teach our fellas a lesson by getting stinking drunk, luring strange men into the bathroom, and turning the toilet stall into a temple of the senses?" - Amy, The Santa Simulation. 

Edited by Chiara
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^Lol dont take Penny seriousley, she can be pretty snarky I think she was being sarcastic. I mean Pennys known Howard longer at that point, and that was up to that moment in S5 where Howard did that speech to Bernadette in front of Penny, that was the first moment the characters started to mature. But up to then Howard was still her sleazy, kinda creepy at times friend who flirts with het haha. And I dont think she was being specefic she was generalizing, Leonard said it best when he said most of the time Pennys breezy but then she can turn into the hulk haha. I think that was funny anyway.

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