Tensor

[Spoilers] Discussion: Season 10

11,089 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

4 minutes ago, No Regrets said:

I'm not talking about Raj. I wanna know what hobbies and activities that Penny loves has Leonard refused to be a part of besides yoga. Cause he's gone to movies with her that he had no interest in, went shoe shopping with her even though he didn't like it, he went hiking with her, he went to a karaoke bar with her at 2am with her and her friends. That is all canon. 

Probably that might be the point, Leonard had no interest for those activities and did them for Penny's sake, which is a nice thing, of course; now Penny knows that (and that's canon too) and she might enjoy watching a girlish-movie with a person who actually wants to watch a girlish-movie.

Edited by mirs1
brilliantfool and joyceraye like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

1 minute ago, mirs1 said:

Probably that might be the point, Leonard had no interest for those activities and did them for Penny's sake, which is a nice thing, of course, now Penny knows that (and that's canon too) and she might enjoy being with a person who actually wants to watch a girlish-movie.

And I'm not blaming Penny for that. What I'm trying to say is that it's an understandable reaction for Leonard to feel left out. Again, if some girl lived with Leonard and Penny and bonded with Leonard because she also loves video games and science, Penny would feel left out, too, and that would be just as understandable. The TR doesn't say that Leonard blames either Raj or Penny, it just states he feels left out and eventually talks to both of them about it. 

bfm, mirs1, Irene and 2 others like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

32 minutes ago, No Regrets said:

And I'm not blaming Penny for that. What I'm trying to say is that it's an understandable reaction for Leonard to feel left out. Again, if some girl lived with Leonard and Penny and bonded with Leonard because she also loves video games and science, Penny would feel left out, too, and that would be just as understandable. The TR doesn't say that Leonard blames either Raj or Penny, it just states he feels left out and eventually talks to both of them about it. 

I can imagine Penny feeling left out quite often in the past 10 years - heck, we had plenty of plots about how she can't join in with the scientific chatter or how she can't relate to the guys' nerdy interests and how that's been a huge source of her insecurity about her relationship with Leonard. There's been a lot of pressure on her to be more into that kind of stuff (be it in-universe by being surrounded by nerdy scientists or in real life from us fans, see the recent discussions about the CC episode) and what has been lost along the way is what does Penny actually enjoy?? As your earlier post indicated: We don't really know much about her interests, do we? Over the years they've been pushed into the background in favour of the show's geeky/nerdy pursuits. Her football friends have vanished into thin air, her acting career went down the drain and now she isn't even going out with the girls that much anymore.

So then, by all means let her have some fun doing girly activities with Raj* that she otherwise only would be doing with a reluctant Leonard. And I think for Leonard it might actually be nice to be reminded how she must have felt for ages when he was doing fun stuff with his friends all the time and have some empathy for Penny here. I hope the talk they have will be productive on that front.

*And of course I realise that for many fans it's not so much the issue that this happens but rather with whom because of that terrible misstep a few seasons ago.

3ku11, Jonny, batman75 and 5 others like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

23 minutes ago, April said:

I can imagine Penny feeling left out quite often in the past 10 years - heck, we had plenty of plots about how she can't join in with the scientific chatter or how she can't relate to the guys' nerdy interests and how that's been a huge source of her insecurity about her relationship with Leonard. There's been a lot of pressure on her to be more into that kind of stuff (be it in-universe by being surrounded by nerdy scientists or in real life from us fans, see the recent discussions about the CC episode) and what has been lost along the way is what does Penny actually enjoy?? As your earlier post indicated: We don't really know much about her interests, do we? Over the years they've been pushed into the background in favour of the show's geeky/nerdy pursuits. Her football friends have vanished into thin air, her acting career went down the drain and now she isn't even going out with the girls that much anymore.

So then, by all means let her have some fun doing girly activities with Raj* that she otherwise only would be doing with a reluctant Leonard. And I think for Leonard it might actually be nice to be reminded how she must have felt for ages when he was doing fun stuff with his friends all the time and have some empathy for Penny here. I hope the talk they have will be productive on that front.

*And of course I realise that for many fans it's not so much the issue that this happens but rather with whom because of that terrible misstep a few seasons ago.

Here's the thing though: who stopped her from keeping in contact with her old friends? I've known most of my friends for 20+ years. If someone's important enough to you it's possible to stay in touch. If you say the writers have neglected Penny and her other friendships then I absolutely agree with you. They've neglected plenty of things over the years. But Penny as a character could have picked up the phone and contacted her old friends. It's not Leonard's fault that she chose not to do so. Is it Penny's fault that Leonard feels left out? Absolutely not. She can't change the fact that he's not into girly stuff and nor should she. But Leonard can also feel left out without begrudging her of having fun with Raj. You can feel something without meaning to blame someone for it. For example: my best friend was jealous because I was spending more time with another friend lately. That didn't mean she didn't want me to have other friends, she was just scared of playing second fiddle because she always had to play second fiddle as a kid. There's no one to blame here, neither Raj, Leonard or Penny. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

3 hours ago, Enrico Fermi said:

 

No, I'm saying they won't do anything.  Any outcomes resulting from Raj moving in fall within a somewhat narrow spectrum of predictability.   Penny and Raj bonding over 'girly' pursuits is a highly predictable outcome.  Raj and Penny won't sleep together or anything so dramatic because this kind of show and these writers have obvious self-imposed limitations and won't go that far.    Penny the person would have reason to be somewhat anxious in the above scenario, but we shouldn't expect anything damaging.

OK I get what your saying and will change my responses to the more appropriate....

Oh Enrico you Dewey eyed moon calf, these writers will do anything especially for a cliffhanger especially since they can basically forget about it by the second episode if the fans raise to much fuss

Edited by JE7
Trust TBTB they are omniscient and all powerfull.... Excuse me while I puke

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

I think it was reflected mostly two episodes back. Penny had to compromise and sacrifice a lot. ^ Right we don't know Penny's interests. As the show does not shed a light on them. The early days Penny. Who was messy, fun, and free spirited. Has been replaced by tbh. This worn down, bored house wife. We don't see her go out anymore. We don't see any of her Friends. Be nice to see that side of her again. So I agree if Penny wants to do girly things. Even with Raj. Then be it. Despite understanding how most Lenny fans may feel about it. Because of whom. Leonard may have that point of view now. Well their talk be productive? Who knows have to wait and see.

Edited by 3ku11

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Shammy is the same thing in a new package every week. As far as story wise, they had 8 years to get Lenny into their position (married/living together). Now they have to do that with Shammy.

As far Raj living with Lenny, it's a sitcom. Having stories based just on Leonard and Penny would be boring. Most married couples' lives are boring.  While Shammy is getting sorted out, Lenny needs an antagonist (that they lost when Sheldon still lived there). It was either Raj or Stuart. I'd rather have Raj.

Why no dinner parties? Because it seems their only friends are Sheldon, Raj, Howard, Bernadette and Amy. Maybe Stuart. That's not a dinner party for them, that's every (other) day.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

2 hours ago, BigBang15 said:

Having stories based just on Leonard and Penny would be boring. Most married couples' lives are boring.

Wouldn't be boring to me at all. 

JohnPhD, bfm, hokie3457 and 2 others like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

I wouldn't mind Penny having fun with a friend, even Raj, and I would even be OK with Leonard feeling left out for a little, IF it was for one episode within several genetally good Lenny episodes, or at least not bad Lenny episodes. My problem is the context. It seems to be another way to show that Lenny are a bad couple, at least in a bad place. Episode after episode it's fighting, not communicating and barely any positive moments (they used to have sweet talks between them, when is the last time we have seen that happen? Last season?). Sometimes they are good and enjoy each other but generally it seems like the writers are trying to convey that they are having a lot of trouble being with each other. That's really sad.

Edited by bfm
typo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

19 minutes ago, No Regrets said:

Here's the thing though: who stopped her from keeping in contact with her old friends? I've known most of my friends for 20+ years. If someone's important enough to you it's possible to stay in touch. If you say the writers have neglected Penny and her other friendships then I absolutely agree with you. They've neglected plenty of things over the years. But Penny as a character could have picked up the phone and contacted her old friends. It's not Leonard's fault that she chose not to do so. Is it Penny's fault that Leonard feels left out? Absolutely not. She can't change the fact that he's not into girly stuff and nor should she. But Leonard can also feel left out without begrudging her of having fun with Raj. You can feel something without meaning to blame someone for it. For example: my best friend was jealous because I was spending more time with another friend lately. That didn't mean she didn't want me to have other friends, she was just scared of playing second fiddle because she always had to play second fiddle as a kid. There's no one to blame here, neither Raj, Leonard or Penny. 

The bold is pretty much my point. Penny as a character can't do anything on her own - she is stuck with what the writers are giving her which is a bunch of people, lovely as they may be, that she has a hard time relating to because they're all so much smarter than her and have special interests that she can't get into even after she tried.

I'm not blaming any character for anything so I'm not sure why that ends up being part of your argument. I just think it's an interesting and believable situation where for once the tables have turned and -instead of Penny being left out of the usual geeky/nerdy activities Leonard is indulging in- she found a kindred spirit in Raj when it comes to her interests and now Leonard is the one who has to deal with these kinds of feelings - which according to the summary he is talking out with Howardette and then Raj and Penny. I mean, sure, we don't know how this all will play out but from the summary it doesn't seem like anyone is throwing around accusations.

Jonny, kimbee73 and spidergirl like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

1 minute ago, April said:

I'm not blaming any character for anything so I'm not sure why that ends up being part of your argument. I just think it's an interesting and believable situation where for once the tables have turned and -instead of Penny being left out of the usual geeky/nerdy activities Leonard is indulging in- she found a kindred spirit in Raj when it comes to her interests and now Leonard is the one who has to deal with these kinds of feelings - which according to the summary he is talking out with Howardette and then Raj and Penny. I mean, sure, we don't know how this all will play out but from the summary it doesn't seem like anyone is throwing around accusations.

I didn't think you were blaming anyone, I just wanted to make it clear that I didn't either. My having sympathy for Leonard doesn't mean that I was blaming Raj or Penny. It wasn't about you at all. I also think the situation is believable in terms of the tables being turned. My frustration - as you can imagine - mainly stems from the fact that Leonard and Penny have a roommate again. 

bfm, hokie3457 and 5Mississippis like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

So to sum up......

tumblr_lon4mtlXAT1qb4bkbo2_500.gif

Edited by JE7
Delusional much?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

7 minutes ago, No Regrets said:

I didn't think you were blaming anyone, I just wanted to make it clear that I didn't either. My having sympathy for Leonard doesn't mean that I was blaming Raj or Penny. It wasn't about you at all. I also think the situation is believable in terms of the tables being turned. My frustration - as you can imagine - mainly stems from the fact that Leonard and Penny have a roommate again. 

Then we're one the same page here. :)

No Regrets likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

 

 

2 hours ago, JE7 said:

So to sum up......

tumblr_lon4mtlXAT1qb4bkbo2_500.gif

Some just prefer to look at the positives. In the show. What's the the point in being selectively cynical. When you don't have too. The shows not that bad. The Living Arrangements. Have actually freshened the show. Call me a show apologist all you want. But it's true.

 

serenaded214 likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

I think it's fair to say they perhaps need to flesh out the characters again a bit in terms of individual hobbies and interests when it comes to Penny and Leonard. It might provide some interesting storylines and perhaps some opportunities later on for them to try and do some of those things together that could generate some comedy.

But wanting them to kind of live in their own bubble almost all of the time away from their friends is an unlikely/unrealistic development. This is a show about a ridiculously close group of friends that will/want to interact a lot with each other, that has been the case for 10 years. Yes have storylines where they are alone sometimes but not all the time and before anyone says nobody wants that, that's not what I have read...

Edited by Jonny
April, veejay and mirs1 like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

23 minutes ago, Jonny said:

I think it's fair to say they perhaps need to flesh out the characters again a bit in terms of individual hobbies and interests when it comes to Penny and Leonard. It might provide some interesting storylines and perhaps some opportunities later on for them to try and do some of those things together that could generate some comedy.

But wanting them to kind of live in their own bubble almost all of the time away from their friends is an unlikely/unrealistic development. This is a show about a ridiculously close group of friends that will/want to interact a lot with each other, that has been the case for 10 years. Yes have storylines where they are alone sometimes but not all the time and before anyone says nobody wants that, that's not what I have read...

Agree with the first part. The second: The thing is right now they barely jave their own storylines, Shamy for example have quite a lot. I think at least several people, including me of course, don't want Lenny to be alone all the time, just a decent amount of time. Some may want them alone all the time and they're entitled to their opinion but I also want the friends interacting as you say.

Edited by bfm
typo
April, veejay, 5Mississippis and 1 other like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

7 minutes ago, RJ1013 said:

I'm working on a more detailed report right now, and I'll follow it up with a post of my opinions on how things played out. 

Thanks to everyone for the well-wishes, and I appreciate the Lenny fans who recognize I'm not at fault for reporting story info that you don't like. Keep that in mind for the longer report because you won't like that either. The only positive thing I can say for Lenny is that I don't think Raj was in any way presented as a romantic threat.

Hey we never should the Messenger ;). But I hope you had a great time and I am anxioulsy waiting for your longer report. But what you write now already confirms my bad feelings about my beloved couple. Anyhow many thanks for "spoiling "us :).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I'm working on a more detailed report right now, and I'll follow it up with a post of my opinions on how things played out. 
Thanks to everyone for the well-wishes, and I appreciate the Lenny fans who recognize I'm not at fault for reporting story info that you don't like. Keep that in mind for the longer report because you won't like that either. The only positive thing I can say for Lenny is that I don't think Raj was in any way presented as a romantic threat.

It's so kind of you to take the time to write this out. Thank you so very much, I really appreciate it x


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
bfm, RJ1013, wowbagger and 5 others like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

40 minutes ago, RJ1013 said:

I'm working on a more detailed report right now, and I'll follow it up with a post of my opinions on how things played out. 

Thanks to everyone for the well-wishes, and I appreciate the Lenny fans who recognize I'm not at fault for reporting story info that you don't like. Keep that in mind for the longer report because you won't like that either. The only positive thing I can say for Lenny is that I don't think Raj was in any way presented as a romantic threat.

Your precious time for doing this will be so appreciated. I really mean it with all my heart :)

mirs1, bfm, Jonny and 6 others like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

44 minutes ago, RJ1013 said:

I'm working on a more detailed report right now, and I'll follow it up with a post of my opinions on how things played out. 

Thanks to everyone for the well-wishes, and I appreciate the Lenny fans who recognize I'm not at fault for reporting story info that you don't like. Keep that in mind for the longer report because you won't like that either. The only positive thing I can say for Lenny is that I don't think Raj was in any way presented as a romantic threat.

 Thank you RJ1013 for sharing your experience with us!

51 minutes ago, RJ1013 said:

I'm working on a more detailed report right now, and I'll follow it up with a post of my opinions on how things played out. 

Thanks to everyone for the well-wishes, and I appreciate the Lenny fans who recognize I'm not at fault for reporting story info that you don't like. Keep that in mind for the longer report because you won't like that either. The only positive thing I can say for Lenny is that I don't think Raj was in any way presented as a romantic threat.

...also, love your avatar!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now