Tensor

[Spoilers] Discussion: Season 10

14,176 posts in this topic

Posted

10 minutes ago, SRAM said:

The thing that is unique in the show is we get to see Penny grow up and so I think it is more important in how the woman that is Penny now acts than the young partygirl she was before.  That woman has been  loyal to Leonard since she told him she loved him and she has never even expressed a desire towards anyone else.  It is a shame the writers had to soil Leonard by bringing Mandy into the picture.  I always saw Leonard and Penny as virgins in their own way because neither of them had experienced real love until they met each other.

I agree with you. I think I have more of a problem with the way she said it, like it was no big deal. Anyway, I still have to remind myself sometimes to not take comedy too seriously. I find that the more invested you are in a character, the harder it is. 

joyceraye, Mario D., veejay and 2 others like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

16 minutes ago, SRAM said:

The thing that is unique in the show is we get to see Penny grow up and so I think it is more important in how the woman that is Penny now acts than the young partygirl she was before.  That woman has been  loyal to Leonard since she told him she loved him and she has never even expressed a desire towards anyone else.  It is a shame the writers had to soil Leonard by bringing Mandy into the picture.  I always saw Leonard and Penny as virgins in their own way because neither of them had experienced real love until they met each other.

n_00221.gif.70eee00dd54f8610780b2cee8c17a917.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

1 hour ago, Tensor said:

 Those who have no interest in any particular discussion, are free to ignore a particular discussion, and allow those who want to discuss it, to discuss it.  

We'd better not start on t-tests, f-tests, chi squared tests, etc. We may cause some heads to explode.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

43 minutes ago, Tensor said:

But, she didn't reach her peak there.  She was dating only Leonard and Zack for that last year, so her total number of men she dated, was two.  I suppose, she could have dated a different guy each night, over the summer to get to the number needed, but we've never seen her date that much, much less that many different men.   

Sorry, 23 then. I forgot for a sec that S3 was the one where she wasn't single. My apologies.

43 minutes ago, Tensor said:

You can't just draw a bell curve.  Each bell curve depends on the mean, the standard deviation, whether you have a tail, and several other things.  In this case, there would be four years of one person, and another year of two.  And with the four years of one, in the middle of the graph, there is no way for Dr Salzberg to draw a bell curve.   The idea behind the dialog was that Sheldon flat out stated he was using a bell curve.  It's simply not possible, for Sheldon to calculate the number of people she dated and the number she slept.   I suppose he could pull a number out of thin air, but that's not using a bell curve, as he stated he did.     

Of course you can assume a bell curve where they would only take Penny's single years into account. So you have Penny at age 14, 15, 16, 17, 22, and 23. Sheldon assumes half of a bell curve and using a standard distribution Penny's single years of 22/23 would account for 68% of the volume of suitors. Sheldon has seen 17 but adjusts the number up to 132 (as per your earlier suggestion). The rest is just a matter of having fun with the rule of three and you'd get a rounded 54 for ages 16/17 and a rounded 9 for ages 14/15 which conveniently adds up to 193.

The crux of the whole thing is the initial assumption of Sheldon adjusting the number up to 132 cause yes, that seems just like a number he'd simply pull out of his arse. And yes, there is no way of knowing how much Penny really dated during her teens compared to now though it's not a complete unreasonable assumption that she would have dated less being a young teen still living with her parents as opposed to living alone with all the freedom in the world. But again, that wasn't my point anyway. In other words: the maths itself seems fine to me, the underlying assumptions not so much.

joyceraye likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

 

23 minutes ago, April said:

 

Of course you can assume a bell curve where they would only take Penny's single years into account. So you have Penny at age 14, 15, 16, 17, 22, and 23. Sheldon assumes half of a bell curve and using a standard distribution Penny's single years of 22/23 would account for 68% of the volume of suitors.

You could assume it, but that's not what he says.   His comment was:

Sheldon: My mistake. Now, assuming the left side of a bell curve peaking around the present, that would bring the total up to 193 men. Plus or minus eight men.  That includes the 9 months with Leonard.  

 

 

23 minutes ago, April said:

Sorry, 23 then. I forgot for a sec that S3 was the one where she wasn't single. My apologies.

 Sheldon assumes half of a bell curve and using a standard distribution Penny's single years of 22/23 would account for 68% of the volume of suitors.

It would be her 23/24 year, if it is, as he says, around the present, and it wouldn't be the peak, the peak would be in her 22-23 years.  

 

23 minutes ago, April said:

The crux of the whole thing is the initial assumption of Sheldon adjusting the number up to 132 cause yes, that seems just like a number he'd simply pull out of his arse. And yes, there is no way of knowing how much Penny really dated during her teens compared to now though it's not a complete unreasonable assumption that she would have dated less being a young teen still living with her parents as opposed to living alone with all the freedom in the world. But again, that wasn't my point anyway. In other words: the maths itself seems fine to me, the underlying assumptions not so much.

Of course the Bell Curve math works, when used properly.   This would be like trying to determine the gravitation potential, by using the Quantum Field Theory equations.  The QFT equations are good, the math works, just not in the case of trying to to compute the gravitational potential, because you can't renormalize spin 2 particles.  Just like you can't use the normal distribution function to determine how many men Penny dated, because her dating pattern is not a normal distribution.  

Zhalen565 and joyceraye like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

The way I see it, Penny was very sexually active as a teen and between Kurt and Leonard (first time). After that she was much less active, perhaps only having sex with Zak and then only Leonard. Leonard doesn't seem to care about that. Sheldon feels the need to keep mentioning it like he feels the need to devalute almost everyone around him. If Penny wants to joke about it she has right to do so. However, I do get you @No Regrets -  it is disturbing that she doesn't seem to regret being "the other woman" but it is a sitcom. Also, she may be using humor as kind of a defense against guilt and shame.

Edited by bfm
typo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Penny has made jokes constantly about her promiscious past. I am sure she doesen't care. Leonard has prob shown more slutty behavior then Penny since Season 5:sarcastichand:. Wheres his Bell Curve Sheldon? Hmmm.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I sure hope we don't have 2 more seasons of espiodes like this last 1

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

5Mississippis likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

14 hours ago, BigBang15 said:

It's only been disproven by people who DON'T write/produce the show. The Big Bang (actual) has been "disproven" by quoting the Bible.

Please refer to Tensor's post on  the same page from where you quoted me. Thank you.

On ‎4‎/‎5‎/‎2017 at 11:56 AM, Judith said:

That would be because Penny has the right to talk about her problems and dilemmas with her friends. It also goes without saying that Leonard's opinion isn't the only one that matters. He doesn't own Penny and there's nothing wrong with taking into consideration her friends' opinions, especially since Leonard's judgement would be very biased. He isn't the most objective fellow anyway.

Of course Penny has the right to talk about her problems with her friends. And while of course, Leonard does not own Penny, since he's her soul mate, his opinion should be the most important to her (and vice versa). Objectivity doesn't come into play at all because if we really think about it, what is objective about love?

Edited by Carlos
Clarification
JE7 and 5Mississippis like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

12 hours ago, snapepans said:

IMO, People on social media used those words, because the words sound like Mandarin.

The letters in the parentheses were used to form the whole words, in order to create some cheap jokes, but not from the writers.

I just wonder which Mandarin word is  corresponding to  "chain ciao", that's the point.  er,I fail to get the cheap jokes, blame me.        "but not from the writers"  sorry,I don't get it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

5 hours ago, Tensor said:

Just like you can't use the normal distribution function to determine how many men Penny dated, because her dating pattern is not a normal distribution.

Good point. After all Penny lived with Kurt for four years before meeting Leonard. Sheldon at least knew she had been living with someone so he ought to have assumed she had been monogamous for a period of time. He could have asked.

veejay, bfm, Zhalen565 and 4 others like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

I never understood though how Penny lived with Kurt for Four years. Yet took so long to live with Leonard. Of course Penny had been monogamous for a periord of time, before 1.01. So it is not like she can be classed as a "slut". Anymore then Leonard can for Alice, Dr Plimpton, Joyce Kim, That Old Lady who gave the University a Grant e.t.c. I mean no one bat's an eye when a Younger Woman goes out with a Older Man. But God Forbid it is the other way round. Double Standards. 

And tbh the only monogamous relationship we've seen from Penny on screen, is Leonard. Before 2007. She was in one with Kurt for Four Years. But her sexual conquests that we did see Mike e.t.c. Could be no different then Leonard dating Stephanie e.t.c. Thing is they always protected and preserved Lenny. You never saw Penny in a serious/mongamous relationship, other then Leonard. So I just think the show choose to paint Penny as a "Slut", because it is more funnier. I mean in another Lorre Show. Two and a half men. Charlie Harper sleeps with a lot more woman, then Penny sleeps with men lol. Probably the entire district of California and Malibu. But he is treated as some kinda suave guy. Penny sleeps with what roughly 14 men she is a slut. 

Edited by 3ku11
JE7, Capt. Hilts and Mario D. like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I don't get it why this discussion about Penny's previous sex life is happening now. She has been married to Leonard for two years and before that they were in a relationship for several years. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

7 minutes ago, Lagernisse said:

I don't get it why this discussion about Penny's previous sex life is happening now. She has been married to Leonard for two years and before that they were in a relationship for several years. 

I think it is based on some of the references Sheldon has made to Penny this season. Just this latest episode. Sheldon made another Penny WAS Promiscious Joke/Reference. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

10 hours ago, 3ku11 said:

I never understood though how Penny lived with Kurt for Four years. Yet took so long to live with Leonard. Of course Penny had been monogamous for a periord of time, before 1.01. So it is not like she can be classed as a "slut". Anymore then Leonard can for Alice, Dr Plimpton, Joyce Kim, That Old Lady who gave the University a Grant e.t.c. I mean no one bat's an eye when a Younger Woman goes out with a Older Man. But God Forbid it is the other way round. Double Standards. 

And tbh the only monogamous relationship we've seen from Penny on screen, is Leonard. Before 2007. She was in one with Kurt for Four Years. But her sexual conquests that we did see Mike e.t.c. Could be no different then Leonard dating Stephanie e.t.c. Thing is they always protected and preserved Lenny. You never saw Penny in a serious/mongamous relationship, other then Leonard. So I just think the show choose to paint Penny as a "Slut", because it is more funnier. I mean in another Lorre Show. Two and a half men. Charlie Harper sleeps with a lot more woman, then Penny sleeps with men lol. Probably the entire district of California and Malibu. But he is treated as some kinda suave guy. Penny sleeps with what roughly 14 men she is a slut. 

The bold part: I think she was young and that was also about leaving her parents' home and "growing up", not only Kurt. I also think we are lead to believe that when it came for Leonard her feelings were more intense and she felt that once she gave into them she will be with him forever (well I can't say anything about "forever" but at least up until now that was not disproven). As I see it, she was young and carefree when she was with Kurt, she lived in the moment and didn't think about the future. It was (is) very different with Leonard.

I believe the promiscuity accusations refer mostly to her teenage years before Kurt and to a lesser extent after him because they claim there have been more men than we saw. I think it is like keeping Sheldon's worst behavior off screen (e.g., in the North Pole expedition or most recently the behavior that made Leonard give him the train museum tickets). They didn't show it to not turn viewers too much against her (even though she had the right to do so but people tend to see it as bad behavior) but felt it is not as bad if you mention it and leave it open to interpretation. (I'm not saying she didn't have the right to have consensual sex as much as she wanted, just pondering the times referred to by these comments).

Edited by bfm
Mario D. likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Well thank god everybody ignored Penny's comment in 'Proton Displacement' about 'dating' a second grader when she was in pre-school...

spidergirl, mirs1, Jonny and 4 others like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

5 minutes ago, Radar said:

Well thank god everybody ignored Penny's comment in 'Proton Displacement' about 'dating' a second grader when she was in pre-school...

This one was very disturbing! It was presented as if it was out of her interest, for her own good but IMO such a little girl dating is indicative of very problematic messages from her surroundings. Did she learn that pretty girls should be all concerned with dating, and all other things be damned? That's very bad. It seems like she had very bad role models. Her sister comes to mind. Maybe her mom was also raised with these messages. Perhaps people around her also treated her in a way that made her feel like she was only good for her looks and should concentrate on boys. I'm not saying they will go there because it was treated as a one off joke.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

20 hours ago, No Regrets said:

I agree with you. I think I have more of a problem with the way she said it, like it was no big deal. Anyway, I still have to remind myself sometimes to not take comedy too seriously. I find that the more invested you are in a character, the harder it is. 

Additionally, I recall how they make Penny out to be too promiscuous: The episode where Raj asks the girls what kind of date he could take out Lucy. The girls give suggestions and Penny chimes in by saying "on a Disneyland ride they are shorter than you think so be sure to put your clothes back on as they take a picture at the end" or "being in a motel room with a 34 yr old guy named Luther on top of you"  Maybe these lines were meant to be humorous but I did not see the humor in them.

Lagernisse, JE7, joyceraye and 3 others like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

11 minutes ago, Mario D. said:

Additionally, I recall how they make Penny out to be too promiscuous: The episode where Raj asks the girls what kind of date he could take out Lucy. The girls give suggestions and Penny chimes in by saying "on a Disneyland ride they are shorter than you think so be sure to put your clothes back on as they take a picture at the end" or "being in a motel room with a 34 yr old guy named Luther on top of you"  Maybe these lines were meant to be humorous but I did not see the humor in them.

The @34 year old guy named Luther" really bothered me, as I think this was before Kurt and she may have been under age???  Comments?

5Mississippis, legacy99, JE7 and 1 other like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

13 minutes ago, hokie3457 said:

The @34 year old guy named Luther" really bothered me, as I think this was before Kurt and she may have been under age???  Comments?

Which like the dating in preschool is disturbing. Penny is pictured as having an OK childhood and having sex (sometimes unsafe) and dating because that's what she liked and it was all good an fun for her. Was it though? she was a child or a teen (still a child), not a grown up woman. When a child dates in preschool and ends up with a 34 year old man in her teens you gotta question said child's upbringing and/or treatment by her surroundings.  

Edited by bfm
legacy99 and JE7 like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

59 minutes ago, bfm said:

Which like the dating in preschool is disturbing. Penny is pictured as having an OK childhood and having sex (sometimes unsafe) and dating because that's what she liked and it was all good an fun for her. Was it though? she was a child or a teen (still a child), not a grown up woman. When a child dates in preschool and ends up with a 34 year old man in her teens you gotta question said child's upbringing and/or treatment by her surroundings.  

All these things are just one liners that has never been brought up again, so in my opinion I don't think we should take them to serious. 

Radar, JE7 and spidergirl like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Obviously, some do these seriously.  

1 hour ago, hokie3457 said:

The @34 year old guy named Luther" really bothered me, as I think this was before Kurt and she may have been under age???  Comments?

Well, if you want to analyze this as real life, then remember, we know even in season two, that she has "daddy issues" from her father wanting a boy and ignoring her after she started developing.   Her youthful indiscretions could be seen as trying to find a daddy figure.  Luther, an older guy, probably recognized this, and took advantage of her youth and naïveté, by promising her things he had no intention of delivering to her (come to think of it, Kurt also fits this, in some respects).

Notice her more egregious activity basically stopped after Leonard, even after they broke up.   

10 hours ago, Lagernisse said:

I don't get it why this discussion about Penny's previous sex life is happening now. She has been married to Leonard for two years and before that they were in a relationship for several years. 

Mostly because they are still referencing that behavior, and it still sticks in the craw of some of the members.  

Carlos, hokie3457, bfm and 2 others like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

1 hour ago, hokie3457 said:

The @34 year old guy named Luther" really bothered me, as I think this was before Kurt and she may have been under age???  Comments?

Yes, and if I remember she added after she said these comments " It's a joke,........ which sometimes is true"  or something to this effect.  This sounded like it was meant to soften the comment but it didn't do that for me

legacy99, hokie3457 and JE7 like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now