Tensor

[Spoilers] Discussion: Season 10

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Posted

21 hours ago, Anita said:

Indeed, he did know.

He definitely knew.

From The Egg Salad Equivalency:-

Leonard: She knows I have a girlfriend. It’s so weird.

Raj: Oh, my God. You’re loving this.

Leonard: To my bones. I mean, I’m not gonna do anything about it. I love Penny. It’s just nice to have a young, attractive woman sniffing around the goods.

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Posted (edited)

3 hours ago, hokie3457 said:

Okay.  I've read the posts.  Watched the episode once.  My reaction:  That's it?  This has been billed (mainly by us and mostly Lenny shippers) as the big season ending episode for Leonard and Penny.  Don't get me wrong.  The episode was fine.  They had a problem and didn't really argue as hard as they did earlier in the season AND we got to see them talk things through.  All fine (btw, @bfm gave a very nice opinion in the Lenny thread).  But.  Again.  That's it?  This was an episode that belongs in the middle of the season.  There were three stories going on at once (as is typical).  Each it seems got equal amount of time.  Again, fine.  BUT.  Leonard and Penny are being sent off into the sunset of Season 10 so incomplete.  So ignored. So lacking in any coherent story.  It is extremely disappointing.  Although, I guess we shouldn't be surprised. 

 

The thing that was hit home here was something that we already knew.  Penny really, really, really hates her job.  She saw "low hanging fruit" in the form of a job offer from Zack and went for it.  Because: she really, really, really hates her job.  You can't blame the girl for wanting to get out without much consideration of what an offer from a former lover (even though he had been "pre-ruined" for her by the love of her life "damn you, you rat bastard...Zack was a perfectly nice guy and then you ruined him...") would mean to her husband.  She even went to Bernadette who pretty much agreed with Leonard.  (btw, I loved Leonard's death-ray glare at Howard when he insinuated the number of guys Penny had been with.   Alas, if only that would escalate. Raj was his usual idiot self...).  The talk between them was again, fine.  However the cheap-laugh element used to conclude their talk was awful.  The cheesy "thumbs-up".  Just....oh well......

 

We now get two episodes to celebrate the wonder that is Sheldon and Amy.  Raj will move out and next season we will get to see him spend some quality bachelor time with TBBT's new favorite ever-increasing recurring character, Bert.  Sheldon and Amy will start planning their gala wedding.  Bernadette and Howard will look lovingly at something that may or may not be their daughter Halley.    Will Penny find happiness in a new job?  Will Leonard develop a backbone?  Will they depart the kitchen island?  For NO answer to these and many more Leonard & Penny questions, tune in to Seasons 11 & 12 of The Big Bang Theory. 

 

Again.  That's it?

Well said! Yes, we finally got to see them communicating and resolving an issue. We also got a reminder that these two really care about each other. But is this suppose to somehow be their great season 10 finale? Is this suppose to make us feel fulfilled, like the fighting arc is resolved? Well, if TPTB's answer os yes I need to go order a 20 feet "F" statue for them because even the toughest teacher cannot write one that describes how much they failed with Lenny this year. This fighting remains unjustified and unresolved. Why after so many years of being together they suddenly keep fighting again and again? There has to be an explanation. "Just because"? I cannot except this. What kind of writers are you? 

And yes Penny really really really hates her job. But will they do something about it? They said they might before this season and nothing. They didn't even have her say she will start looking for another job. Why would they? It is easier to sweep it under the rug again. Apparently for TPTB if it isn't Sheldon or Shamy it is just not worth thinking about. How I wish they would finally get how much they lost their balance and how they have neglected their main characters, Leonard and Penny, and also Raj. But I really don't have any hopes anymore. I enjoy what I'm given when I'm given something decent once in many episodes and use fanfics, my imagination and my dear fellow Lennys to compensate for when I'm given none or terrible things.

 

(And thanks you hokie :))

Edited by bfm
Gratitude :)
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Posted (edited)

15 minutes ago, Tensor said:

 

So you're saying they deserve more than Kunal or Simon, at the same service point?  

 
 

I agree here. Often being an Emmys winner or once being nominated for one means nothing in contracts.  Valerie Harper won an Emmy while on MTM but got paid less then MTM (Obviously) and Ed.  On Golden Girls Estelle got paid less even so she won an Emmy.  Estelle and Valerie both Supporting Actresses. 

Mayim and Melissa are both Supporting actresses and been on the show for only 7 and 6 seasons respectively and both started out as a guest star than Recurring  Guest before becoming a Full-Time Permanent Cast Member. It  Also has to f do qith Face value. 

 

It actually quite fair and the others took a pay cut so the two later arrivals could get a raise. 

Edited by MTBigBangTheoryFan
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Posted

3 minutes ago, Tensor said:

So you're saying they deserve more than Kunal or Simon, at the same service point?  

I agree it's fair from that point for view, just unfortunate timing for Melissa and Mayim to have joined the show later. Makes me wish they'd been part of the cast from the beginning.

Anyway,  do you remember the reported numbers for Kunal and Simon? (I always forget  whoops). There's a lot of guesswork around those numbers so there're probably not super accurate but I would expect them to be in roughly the same range. There's also mention of independent "development components" for M&M in some articles. Idk how much that would translate financially.

 

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So, while I like Lenny and would absolutely hate a show without them as a couple and as individual characters, I'll admit that I'm not a shipper in the sense that I pay super close attention to everything they say and do.  I also don't always notice when shippers will be upset by a storyline. I'm just not that invested.

However, I found myself trying to sympathize with what Lennies are upset about while watching current and past episodes. I obviously notice that they fight all the time and married life hasn't exactly agreed with them, but watching S4 last night, I couldn't help but feel like not much has changed. I feel like Penny always took Leonard for granted (since the very first episode) and their relationship has never been stable and they've always fought more than they've been happy. Is that why you guys are so upset or is there a magical time in Lenny's past that stands out and you wish the writers would honor/revert back to? 

I'm not saying that I'm right to feel like this is par for the course with them because like I said, I don't remember things as vividly about them as I do Shamy and I never took the time to dissect them as I do Shamy. I'm honestly very curious (absolutely no sarcasm or sass) to hear from the people who ship and care the most (and maybe even from people who don't) where their disappoints lays. Is it that they haven't grown up and matured? Was there a point in time that felt like the golden years where they didn't fight and were much happier?

I've felt for the past year that Leonard and Penny were always the on again, off again couple and married life wasn't well suited for the TBBT couple that has broken up the most, took 6 years to say "I love you", had multiple proposals before the answer was yes, had to get married twice, etc. I always felt (as an average viewer of Lenny) as though their place on the show was to be rocky, different, and difficult but undeniably in love with each other. This is why I felt like marriage ruined it. 

I know this probably isn't how shippers feel, so I would love to hear when you guys thought their relationship worked best and whether you disagree that they were always rocky. I know I'll probably hear a lot of Sheldon bashing as I know a lot of Lennies think it's just the Sheldon show these days, but I'd love to focus on Lenny and what went wrong and when it was right. 

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Posted (edited)

5 minutes ago, April said:

I agree it's fair from that point for view, just unfortunate timing for Melissa and Mayim to have joined the show later. Makes me wish they'd been part of the cast from the beginning.

Anyway,  do you remember the reported numbers for Kunal and Simon? (I always forget  whoops). There's a lot of guesswork around those numbers so there're probably not super accurate but I would expect them to be in roughly the same range. There's also mention of independent "development components" for M&M in some articles. Idk how much that would translate financially.

 

 
 

I read Kunal and Simon got a Million or close but not sure. 

 

They almost got thrown off the show during the last Contracts Negotiations in 2014.  Glad it went more smoothly this time around 

Edited by MTBigBangTheoryFan

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Posted

I don't really think that this is real but is Stephen hawking actually in the chat 

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Posted (edited)

22 minutes ago, April said:

I agree it's fair from that point for view, just unfortunate timing for Melissa and Mayim to have joined the show later. Makes me wish they'd been part of the cast from the beginning.

Anyway,  do you remember the reported numbers for Kunal and Simon? (I always forget  whoops). There's a lot of guesswork around those numbers so there're probably not super accurate but I would expect them to be in roughly the same range. There's also mention of independent "development components" for M&M in some articles. Idk how much that would translate financially.

 

 

could be because the original 5 started from the beginning i.e. they started from scratch, from nothing, when the show was at 0. Whereas Mayim and Melissa came onto an already successful award winning show by season 4.  There wouldn't have been a 4th season without seasons 1-3. So my guess is that time plays a role. i'm  just guessing though. if they are getting the same as SH and KN then it is fair. 

Edited by serena_1995
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10 minutes ago, April said:

I agree it's fair from that point for view, just unfortunate timing for Melissa and Mayim to have joined the show later. Makes me wish they'd been part of the cast from the beginning.

Anyway,  do you remember the reported numbers for Kunal and Simon? (I always forget  whoops). There's a lot of guesswork around those numbers so there're probably not super accurate but I would expect them to be in roughly the same range. There's also mention of independent "development components" for M&M in some articles. Idk how much that would translate financially.

 

The original 5 are now all making the same salary.  They also all have a piece of the back end at various percentages.  Johnny, Jim and Simon all have production deals with WB.  I read that Kaley was offered a production deal, but declined and was given a signing bonus instead.  I haven't read what Kunal was offered or accepted.

I'm not positive what "development components" are.  Jim & Johnny actually own production companies housed on the WB lot, but I'm not sure that M&M have that same sort of arrangement.  It could just mean that they can bring project pitches to the WB.

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Posted

9 minutes ago, Bigbang.daily said:

I don't really think that this is real but is Stephen hawking actually in the chat 

It wasn't me.

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Was my post so difficult to understand because...? Mayim and Melissa came in a few years later so S11/12 would be only their 8th and 9th year on the show respectively. I would then think they would get roughly what Kunal and Simon got in their 8th/9th years not what they get now. If they had been on the show since the beginning I would expect them to have parity with the rest of the cast,  hence my comment about unfortunate timing.

14 minutes ago, vonmar said:

 

I'm not positive what "development components" are.  Jim & Johnny actually own production companies housed on the WB lot, but I'm not sure that M&M have that same sort of arrangement.  It could just mean that they can bring project pitches to the WB.

I can imagine Melissa writing something new with her husband but who knows what plans Mayim might have.

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Posted (edited)

41 minutes ago, shamyyellow said:
So, while I like Lenny and would absolutely hate a show without them as a couple and as individual characters, I'll admit that I'm not a shipper in the sense that I pay super close attention to everything they say and do.  I also don't always notice when shippers will be upset by a storyline. I'm just not that invested.
However, I found myself trying to sympathize with what Lennies are upset about while watching current and past episodes. I obviously notice that they fight all the time and married life hasn't exactly agreed with them, but watching S4 last night, I couldn't help but feel like not much has changed. I feel like Penny always took Leonard for granted (since the very first episode) and their relationship has never been stable and they've always fought more than they've been happy. Is that why you guys are so upset or is there a magical time in Lenny's past that stands out and you wish the writers would honor/revert back to? 
I'm not saying that I'm right to feel like this is par for the course with them because like I said, I don't remember things as vividly about them as I do Shamy and I never took the time to dissect them as I do Shamy. I'm honestly very curious (absolutely no sarcasm or sass) to hear from the people who ship and care the most (and maybe even from people who don't) where their disappoints lays. Is it that they haven't grown up and matured? Was there a point in time that felt like the golden years where they didn't fight and were much happier?
I've felt for the past year that Leonard and Penny were always the on again, off again couple and married life wasn't well suited for the TBBT couple that has broken up the most, took 6 years to say "I love you", had multiple proposals before the answer was yes, had to get married twice, etc. I always felt (as an average viewer of Lenny) as though their place on the show was to be rocky, different, and difficult but undeniably in love with each other. This is why I felt like marriage ruined it. 
I know this probably isn't how shippers feel, so I would love to hear when you guys thought their relationship worked best and whether you disagree that they were always rocky. I know I'll probably hear a lot of Sheldon bashing as I know a lot of Lennies think it's just the Sheldon show these days, but I'd love to focus on Lenny and what went wrong and when it was right. 


The degrading of lenny started in s7 to promote shamy. Lenny are a great couple tptb chose  not to show it. It think shamy is a one sided  relationship and will always be. That what makes lenny special, they do things for each other out of love, not for one person's  ego and on sheldon's terms. Showing lenny in a good light  in equal terms will not be good for shamy. Nothing went wrong tptb just wanted the Sheldon Show. Simple as.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 

Edited by Tensor
Removed comment directed at another member.
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Posted

9 minutes ago, shamyyellow said:

So, while I like Lenny and would absolutely hate a show without them as a couple and as individual characters, I'll admit that I'm not a shipper in the sense that I pay super close attention to everything they say and do.  I also don't always notice when shippers will be upset by a storyline. I'm just not that invested.

However, I found myself trying to sympathize with what Lennies are upset about while watching current and past episodes. I obviously notice that they fight all the time and married life hasn't exactly agreed with them, but watching S4 last night, I couldn't help but feel like not much has changed. I feel like Penny always took Leonard for granted (since the very first episode) and their relationship has never been stable and they've always fought more than they've been happy. Is that why you guys are so upset or is there a magical time in Lenny's past that stands out and you wish the writers would honor/revert back to? 

I'm not saying that I'm right to feel like this is par for the course with them because like I said, I don't remember things as vividly about them as I do Shamy and I never took the time to dissect them as I do Shamy. I'm honestly very curious (absolutely no sarcasm or sass) to hear from the people who ship and care the most (and maybe even from people who don't) where their disappoints lays. Is it that they haven't grown up and matured? Was there a point in time that felt like the golden years where they didn't fight and were much happier?

I've felt for the past year that Leonard and Penny were always the on again, off again couple and married life wasn't well suited for the TBBT couple that has broken up the most, took 6 years to say "I love you", had multiple proposals before the answer was yes, had to get married twice, etc. I always felt (as an average viewer of Lenny) as though their place on the show was to be rocky, different, and difficult but undeniably in love with each other. This is why I felt like marriage ruined it. 

I know this probably isn't how shippers feel, so I would love to hear when you guys thought their relationship worked best and whether you disagree that they were always rocky. I know I'll probably hear a lot of Sheldon bashing as I know a lot of Lennies think it's just the Sheldon show these days, but I'd love to focus on Lenny and what went wrong and when it was right. 

First of all, I think your post is very welcome. I appreciate you trying to understand other people's perspective. I'll try to explain the way I see it. I am speeking for myself, of course.

While Leonard and Penny never had a smooth sail they were, IMO, growing, especially Penny. To me there was big, powerful love there since the very beginning. But it met two people who didn't know how to handle it. One more then the other - Penny, who was scared by it. This powerful thing meeting their difficulties and insecurities (don't be fooled by Penny's strong image, sometimes I think she might be about as insecure as Leonard is) made it hard for them. They had multiple fights and breaks (although I'm not sure how serious these were, except from the one we actually saw) but they talked them through and with caring, understanding and tolerance made it through. If you want an example of times many Lennys see as great for them watch season 6. One of the episodes there, "The Tangible Affection Proof" is one of my favorite TBBT episodes. This episode had them fighting for no apparent reason, until we got the reason - Penny's commitment issues, that made her fight with him when she was actually happy with him. They talked it through, with compassion and understanding. 

Now cut to the second half of this season. We have them fighting continously and not respecting each other. This time we don't see them talking and resolving their fights (last night's episode being a great exception). They appear to be fine in the end of every fighting episode but fight again in the next one or the one after it. The fights and bad treatment also seem to be uncalled for. They could make sense if there was another source(sl of making them/Penny be generally frustrated or "on edge" (like Penny's commitment issues in "The Tangible Affection Proof") but we never get to hear reveal one (various). 

And yes, after all they went through we do expect development. I'll try finding an equivalent in Shamy, not to bash them (I am supprotive of them) but to try to help you understand: Imagine a few episodes/season after "The Opening Night Exitation" having Sheldon ignoring Amy when she asks for a kiss or a cuddle (kind of like "The Contractual Obligation"). Even worse, imagine him shutting her down saying she is just a slave to her hormones and the reason for his sudden change is never explained. You could say that for years Shamy were a couple with minimal physical aspect, but after all they went threw you would probably feel it is completely unjustified, would want an explanation and would even be angry at the writers and even feeling hurt and disregarded by them.

I hope this helps.

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Posted

37 minutes ago, April said:

I agree it's fair from that point for view, just unfortunate timing for Melissa and Mayim to have joined the show later. Makes me wish they'd been part of the cast from the beginning.

Anyway,  do you remember the reported numbers for Kunal and Simon? (I always forget  whoops). There's a lot of guesswork around those numbers so there're probably not super accurate but I would expect them to be in roughly the same range. There's also mention of independent "development components" for M&M in some articles. Idk how much that would translate financially.

 

Simon and Kunal, in their eight season they got around 600-700K, increasing to a million (and parity with the three) in their tenth season.  That first year of the contract, they would have been making just over half of what the other three were getting.   If M and M are getting around 500k, that would put them at just over half of what the other five are getting, in the same ball park as Simon and Kunal, at the same point in time.  It looks lower, but the other's pay is lower.  Percentage wise, it works out the same.  I haven't seen anything about their pay going up in season 12.  

 

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4 minutes ago, Tensor said:

Simon and Kunal, in their eight season they got around 600-700K, increasing to a million (and parity with the three) in their tenth season.  That first year of the contract, they would have been making just over half of what the other three were getting.   If M and M are getting around 500k, that would put them at just over half of what the other five are getting, in the same ball park as Simon and Kunal, at the same point in time.  It looks lower, but the other's pay is lower.  Percentage wise, it works out the same.  I haven't seen anything about their pay going up in season 12.  

 

Thank you, I know I can always count on you knowing the numbers!  :)

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Posted (edited)

11 minutes ago, Tensor said:

Simon and Kunal, in their eight season they got around 600-700K, increasing to a million (and parity with the three) in their tenth season.  That first year of the contract, they would have been making just over half of what the other three were getting.   If M and M are getting around 500k, that would put them at just over half of what the other five are getting, in the same ball park as Simon and Kunal, at the same point in time.  It looks lower, but the other's pay is lower.  Percentage wise, it works out the same.  I haven't seen anything about their pay going up in season 12.  

 

 

yes , i recall the original 5 took a lower pay next season so M&M can get a raise.  , so percentage wise it would be the same. I have to say, i think the original 5 are  really nice for their gesture. 

Edited by serena_1995
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Posted

 

42 minutes ago, shamyyellow said:

So, while I like Lenny and would absolutely hate a show without them as a couple and as individual characters, I'll admit that I'm not a shipper in the sense that I pay super close attention to everything they say and do.  I also don't always notice when shippers will be upset by a storyline. I'm just not that invested.

And that's fine.  One of the things that bother Lenny's is comments about how it's not so bad, from those exactly like you.  They are not invested.  

42 minutes ago, shamyyellow said:

However, I found myself trying to sympathize with what Lennies are upset about while watching current and past episodes. I obviously notice that they fight all the time and married life hasn't exactly agreed with them, but watching S4 last night, I couldn't help but feel like not much has changed. I feel like Penny always took Leonard for granted (since the very first episode) and their relationship has never been stable and they've always fought more than they've been happy. Is that why you guys are so upset or is there a magical time in Lenny's past that stands out and you wish the writers would honor/revert back to? 

Season four, or season three.  During season four, they were broken up, (and Leonard was dating Priya).  Season three, they were together, but yes there were fights.  However, there were also plots that were cute, where they weren't fighting, but actually talking about things.  

42 minutes ago, shamyyellow said:

I'm not saying that I'm right to feel like this is par for the course with them because like I said, I don't remember things as vividly about them as I do Shamy and I never took the time to dissect them as I do Shamy. I'm honestly very curious (absolutely no sarcasm or sass) to hear from the people who ship and care the most (and maybe even from people who don't) where their disappoints lays. Is it that they haven't grown up and matured? Was there a point in time that felt like the golden years where they didn't fight and were much happier?

Look at season six and seven.   They talked.  Tangible Affection has been mentioned.  Holographic, Tenure Turbulece, Bon Voyage.  Watch the background of Closet Reconfiguration.  Although it isn't a Lenny episode by any means, watching them in the background, with small touches putting their hands on each other is cute and loving.  Something we don't see a lot of these days.  In season seven there were multiple instances of them talking through things, or working together.   That hasn't happened very much over the last three seasons.  In those seasons, they have pulled out the "he wore me down" gag, the Penny is a slut gag, the Leonard isn't good looking enough for Penny gag, the they aren't going to stay together gag.   On top of that, look, in season eight, how many times Lenny are doing nothing more than standing behind one island or another drinking coffee and just commenting.  

 

42 minutes ago, shamyyellow said:

I've felt for the past year that Leonard and Penny were always the on again, off again couple and married life wasn't well suited for the TBBT couple that has broken up the most, took 6 years to say "I love you", had multiple proposals before the answer was yes, had to get married twice, etc. I always felt (as an average viewer of Lenny) as though their place on the show was to be rocky, different, and difficult but undeniably in love with each other. This is why I felt like marriage ruined it. 

The problem isn't that marriage ruined it.  After all, has marriage, or even the baby ruined Howardette?  To be honest, I think their story has been one of the more successful arcs this year.  It's that the writers have basically minimized their storylines since the beginning of season eight.  I like to point out that we all have different versions of what is quality screen time.  So I like using time on screen as what the writers think of the couple.  In season eight, Shamy had more than twice as much screen time as Lenny.  What made that worse, was through 23 episodes, Shenny had more screen time than Lenny.   Only the scene on the way to Vegas pushed Lenny past Shenny in screen time.  And I think we can all agree the admission of the kiss wasn't quality screen time.  

42 minutes ago, shamyyellow said:

I know this probably isn't how shippers feel, so I would love to hear when you guys thought their relationship worked best and whether you disagree that they were always rocky. I know I'll probably hear a lot of Sheldon bashing as I know a lot of Lennies think it's just the Sheldon show these days, but I'd love to focus on Lenny and what went wrong and when it was right. 

I complained about how much Shamy worked on moving in together.  How they talked about it, tried to work things out.  We never got that with Lenny.    Or how there were nine episodes in the Shamy break up.  But, you know, every episode had something to do with that break up.  Lenny was broken up for almost two years, we only got three or four episodes about the breakup, and the three or so dates Amy had with Dave, don't seem as big of deal as the Leonard's dating Priya.  Hell, they were dating (both together and long distance) for seven more episodes than Shamy was broken up.   If you want time, Shamy was broken up for 2.5 months, Lenny for 21 months.  

Then you also have Sheldon interrupting both of their weddings.  And I'm of the opinion that the second wedding was more about the familys, not the wedding.    How the hell did they get those chairs and decoration at the location they got married the second time?  No one knows, it wasn't important enough to merit any kind of time.  

Some are even more pissed off than I am (I know several that have quite watching).  That said, not all Lennys feel this way, but a large majority here do feel this way.  Feel free to ask questions.  I can expand on almost all of this.  

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6 minutes ago, Tensor said:

 

And that's fine.  One of the things that bother Lenny's is comments about how it's not so bad, from those exactly like you.  They are not invested.  

Season four, or season three.  During season four, they were broken up, (and Leonard was dating Priya).  Season three, they were together, but yes there were fights.  However, there were also plots that were cute, where they weren't fighting, but actually talking about things.  

Look at season six and seven.   They talked.  Tangible Affection has been mentioned.  Holographic, Tenure Turbulece, Bon Voyage.  Watch the background of Closet Reconfiguration.  Although it isn't a Lenny episode by any means, watching them in the background, with small touches putting their hands on each other is cute and loving.  Something we don't see a lot of these days.  In season seven there were multiple instances of them talking through things, or working together.   That hasn't happened very much over the last three seasons.  In those seasons, they have pulled out the "he wore me down" gag, the Penny is a slut gag, the Leonard isn't good looking enough for Penny gag, the they aren't going to stay together gag.   On top of that, look, in season eight, how many times Lenny are doing nothing more than standing behind one island or another drinking coffee and just commenting.  

 

The problem isn't that marriage ruined it.  After all, has marriage, or even the baby ruined Howardette?  To be honest, I think their story has been one of the more successful arcs this year.  It's that the writers have basically minimized their storylines since the beginning of season eight.  I like to point out that we all have different versions of what is quality screen time.  So I like using time on screen as what the writers think of the couple.  In season eight, Shamy had more than twice as much screen time as Lenny.  What made that worse, was through 23 episodes, Shenny had more screen time than Lenny.   Only the scene on the way to Vegas pushed Lenny past Shenny in screen time.  And I think we can all agree the admission of the kiss wasn't quality screen time.  

I complained about how much Shamy worked on moving in together.  How they talked about it, tried to work things out.  We never got that with Lenny.    Or how there were nine episodes in the Shamy break up.  But, you know, every episode had something to do with that break up.  Lenny was broken up for almost two years, we only got three or four episodes about the breakup, and the three or so dates Amy had with Dave, don't seem as big of deal as the Leonard's dating Priya.  Hell, they were dating (both together and long distance) for seven more episodes than Shamy was broken up.   If you want time, Shamy was broken up for 2.5 months, Lenny for 21 months.  

Then you also have Sheldon interrupting both of their weddings.  And I'm of the opinion that the second wedding was more about the familys, not the wedding.    How the hell did they get those chairs and decoration at the location they got married the second time?  No one knows, it wasn't important enough to merit any kind of time.  

Some are even more pissed off than I am (I know several that have quite watching).  That said, not all Lennys feel this way, but a large majority here do feel this way.  Feel free to ask questions.  I can expand on almost all of this.  

Solid as always @Tensor . I couldn't agree more. 

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28 minutes ago, serena_1995 said:

 

yes , i recall the original 5 took a lower pay next season so M&M can get a raise.  , so percentage wise it would be the same. I have to say, i think the original 5 are  really nice for their gesture. 

Really nice, and I think it is a great indication of how harmonious the seven are.  In this industry, you don't see very much of that kind of giving to your costars. I know Ed O'Neil gave up some to get others their raises at the four year point.   Percentage wise it was about the same, but think about it.  100k over 48 episodes is 4.8 million that each of the first five are giving up.  

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1 hour ago, bfm said:

Well said! Yes, we finally got to see them communicating and resolving an issue. We also got a reminder that these two really care about each other. But is this suppose to somehow be their great season 10 finale? Is this suppose to make us feel fulfilled, like the fighting arc is resolved? Well, if TPTB's answer os yes I need to go order a 20 feet "F" statue for them because even the toughest teacher cannot write one that describes how much they failed with Lenny this year. This fighting remains unjustified and unresolved. Why after so many years of being together they suddenly keep fighting again and again? There has to be an explanation. "Just because"? I cannot except this. What kind of writers are you? 

And yes Penny really really really hates her job. But will they do something about it? They said they might before this season and nothing. They didn't even have her say she will start looking for another job. Why would they? It is easier to sweep it under the rug again. Apparently for TPTB if it isn't Sheldon or Shamy it is just not worth thinking about. How I wish they would finally get how much they lost their balance and how they have neglected their main characters, Leonard and Penny, and also Raj. But I really don't have any hopes anymore. I enjoy what I'm given when I'm given something decent once in many episodes and use fanfics, my imagination and my dear fellow Lennys to compensate for when I'm given none or terrible things.

 

(And thanks you hokie :))

And thank you BFM and HOKIE  for your  concise analysis of the Penny/Leonard conundrum.  Also, agree that some of the fanfiction stories are so good and imaginative it makes you wonder why the BBT writers cannot do it.  Maybe going on strike will recharge their batteries.

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1 minute ago, Mario D. said:

  Maybe going on strike will recharge their batteries.

I only have on wish for the TBBT writers. Don't let the door hit you in the ass.

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44 minutes ago, Tensor said:

 

And that's fine.  One of the things that bother Lenny's is comments about how it's not so bad, from those exactly like you.  They are not invested.  

Season four, or season three.  During season four, they were broken up, (and Leonard was dating Priya).  Season three, they were together, but yes there were fights.  However, there were also plots that were cute, where they weren't fighting, but actually talking about things.  

Look at season six and seven.   They talked.  Tangible Affection has been mentioned.  Holographic, Tenure Turbulece, Bon Voyage.  Watch the background of Closet Reconfiguration.  Although it isn't a Lenny episode by any means, watching them in the background, with small touches putting their hands on each other is cute and loving.  Something we don't see a lot of these days.  In season seven there were multiple instances of them talking through things, or working together.   That hasn't happened very much over the last three seasons.  In those seasons, they have pulled out the "he wore me down" gag, the Penny is a slut gag, the Leonard isn't good looking enough for Penny gag, the they aren't going to stay together gag.   On top of that, look, in season eight, how many times Lenny are doing nothing more than standing behind one island or another drinking coffee and just commenting.  

 

The problem isn't that marriage ruined it.  After all, has marriage, or even the baby ruined Howardette?  To be honest, I think their story has been one of the more successful arcs this year.  It's that the writers have basically minimized their storylines since the beginning of season eight.  I like to point out that we all have different versions of what is quality screen time.  So I like using time on screen as what the writers think of the couple.  In season eight, Shamy had more than twice as much screen time as Lenny.  What made that worse, was through 23 episodes, Shenny had more screen time than Lenny.   Only the scene on the way to Vegas pushed Lenny past Shenny in screen time.  And I think we can all agree the admission of the kiss wasn't quality screen time.  

I complained about how much Shamy worked on moving in together.  How they talked about it, tried to work things out.  We never got that with Lenny.    Or how there were nine episodes in the Shamy break up.  But, you know, every episode had something to do with that break up.  Lenny was broken up for almost two years, we only got three or four episodes about the breakup, and the three or so dates Amy had with Dave, don't seem as big of deal as the Leonard's dating Priya.  Hell, they were dating (both together and long distance) for seven more episodes than Shamy was broken up.   If you want time, Shamy was broken up for 2.5 months, Lenny for 21 months.  

Then you also have Sheldon interrupting both of their weddings.  And I'm of the opinion that the second wedding was more about the familys, not the wedding.    How the hell did they get those chairs and decoration at the location they got married the second time?  No one knows, it wasn't important enough to merit any kind of time.  

Some are even more pissed off than I am (I know several that have quite watching).  That said, not all Lennys feel this way, but a large majority here do feel this way.  Feel free to ask questions.  I can expand on almost all of this.  

Tensor, in your excellent explanation of Penny and Leonard life, you mentioned  their little touches and coziness together that makes them a real couple.  Have a question I have wondered about.  In some scenes, like if they are walking up or down the stairs, or sitting on the couch, or the example you stated in The Closet Configuration you see Penny take Leonards hand or clutch his arm......do you think that Kaley is directed to do this or does she just take it upon herself to enhance the scene.   It always seems so spontaneous and natural and as you state loving.

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