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[Spoilers] Shamy: Season 10

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Posted (edited)

27 minutes ago, April said:

Looking at how Sheldon is portrayed so far I think this is probably the least likely option. He's called his mother out on her religious beliefs more than once and only wanted to keep him and Amy living together a secret because he was expecting a fire and brimstone lecture. Growing up the way he did he obviously would be familiar with certain terms like "living in sin" which he used here to provoke her. But I don't think he has any moral qualms himself.

It's something we could only speculate about. He's certainly tossed the religion aside, I agree, so it's just a question of whether he considers that topic to have been an entirely religious lesson or a more general ethical one. He expected a fire and brimstone lecture, so I think you may be right that the he has that filed under religious.

Edited by RJ1013
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2 hours ago, RJ1013 said:

He's certainly tossed the religion aside.

Although, being raised in a Christian household has affected him, to the point where he is not entirely comfortable with the word cockamamie.

2 hours ago, spidergirl said:

Happy Valentine's day! :)

 

avatar_1484254323662.jpg

Wow. Just look at the figure on that woman. :maninlove: 

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4 hours ago, RJ1013 said:

I think we all wonder this :)

Realistically, I think it is to keep the audience tuning in to see how things resolve. Judging by how often coitus and marriage are brought up on this forum, there’s a good chance that most other viewers find these topics of interest as well. Before anything else, this show is a business and ratings matter. Obviously they will need to deal with it before viewers get too annoyed though.

Character-based explanations are tougher. Usually when Sheldon takes a step forward in his relationship with Amy, it is shown to become an increasingly comfortable thing for both of them (holding hands, kissing, saying ‘I love you’). The continued restriction on coitus does break that pattern. Low libidos, 'that’s what works for them', and 'they’re satisfied getting to slowly explore this part of themselves via make outs' are all possible explanations for it. 

Amy is able to tell just by looking at Sheldon that he wants to make out with her at the end of “The Cohabitation Experimentation”. She also knows to keep Harry Potter costumes at hand and that wearing one on her birthday would be something Sheldon would enjoy in that context. Both of those things definitely indicate increased sexual familiarity to me. One has to know their partner pretty well to be able to read him/her, and one doesn’t tend to whip out the HP cosplay until they’re rather comfortable and confident. As such, I do think there has been progress.

One other possible explanation for the continued limitation is that Sheldon is holding back because he was raised to believe that premarital sex is immoral. While he isn’t interested in religion, this isn’t always presented as a religious issue but rather an ethical one. He expected judgement from his mother, and he’s familiar with the term ‘living in sin’. That term usually implies that the woman in question is a hussy/slut and that the man is using her and doesn’t have enough respect for her to get married. I don’t agree with that kind of thinking even a little bit, but people who use a phrase like that often do.

Interestingly enough, if that were the case for him, it might explain why he would tell random people about the once-a-year deal in this next episode. People would know they moved in together, and he might’ve thought that adding that detail would somehow protect their reputations.  Even if this wasn’t the reason for his over-sharing, I’m sure he never expected anyone to use the information as a source of mockery. For that reason I feel kind of bad for him as well as for Amy, even though he was wrong to share something private.

This is a feasible explanation to me. Old habits die hard !  Rejection of faith doesn't necessarily  mean dispensing with ingrained  ideas of right and wrong.  'Living in Sin' in England and Wales (Scotland had different laws ) used to be an official term that in practice tended to relate to mature couples who lived together as if married with the community not knowing they weren't. Before regulations were changed only a generation ago so that either party, not just the 'innocent one', could petition (US language 'file' ) for divorce, it could be the case that what would be a second marriage these days couldn't legally happen. There were few ways a younger unmarried couple under normal circumstances could find a home anyway. The term 'living in sin'  is still around, often used jokingly, even though it's becoming almost normal for young couples to move in together and set up a household before - or even instead of -  getting married. It doesn't carry the sense of condemnation it used to, or perhaps still does in East Texas.

I've noticed that couples who are together but waiting until marriage to consummate the relationship do go to some length nowadays to let others know. It's a funny turnaround, because I can remember when it was taken for granted that a 'nice girl' ( even one who ate a banana vertically :) ) and a  man who respected her would definitely not be going further than kissing and cuddling on a couch ( or 'making out' as they call it in TBBT ) before the wedding night. Reputation was everything and it still is in some quarters. I can see where Sheldon is coming from if indeed that's his way of thinking. The clue is that they both appeared to know what a pillow wall was for.

 

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4 minutes ago, mirs1 said:

I found how they told Bert about they met at the same time cute and baffling. It was a bit weird that Sheldon said they met on-line, because technically he never spoke with her on the internet, Raj and Howard pretended to be him ("Greetings fellow life-form", LOL!) and he (very reluctantly)  met her directly at the coffee shop. Oh...those writers, they should have let Amy said they met on line and Sheldon mention their first date!!! Anyway, both had such a tender voice remembering that day!

Yeah and they had cute smiles as they remembered the day. These few seconds really made me smile :)

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6 minutes ago, mirs1 said:

I found how they told Bert about they met at the same time cute and baffling. It was a bit weird that Sheldon said they met on-line, because technically he never spoke with her on the internet, Raj and Howard pretended to be him ("Greetings fellow life-form", LOL!) and he (very reluctantly)  met her directly at the coffee shop. Oh...those writers, they should have let Amy said they met on line and Sheldon mention their first date!!! Anyway, both had such a tender voice remembering that day!

Apart that, Amy has all rights to be angry at him, that was a very long list of people he told their private matters! She looked very upset, I'm very curious about the episode and how it plays out on screen. 

In this case, I think it was staged that way for the sake of brevity, they needed to move quickly into the more important story line.

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1 minute ago, joyceraye said:

My fondest memory of the meeting in the coffee shop is the moment Sheldon decided to make it a date and not a brush-off : ' May I buy you a beverage ?' .

Those words will one day be remembered as well as ' Wherefore art thou Romeo ?'.

It has been my wish ever since I knew about the ring that he would propose in that coffee shop.

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Posted

3 minutes ago, vonmar said:

In this case, I think it was staged that way for the sake of brevity, they needed to move quickly into the more important story line.

As I said, it would have been enough to switch the lines, Amy should have said "We met on-line" And Sheldon "Our first date was at a coffee shop"; technically it would have been more precise, LOL!

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Posted

There's nothing bad about Amy fantasizing about her boyfriend and finding him attractive per se (I've never said that), but, by the way, how many times had we seen Penny or Bernardette having a sexy fantasy about their respective husbands?
As I have been lectured here, Amy is, with difference, the one with the lowest libido among the girls, so I have to wonder why she is the one that is most frequently talking or thinking about sex in one way or another.
Something else, Amy had that fantasy, great, why is she still being portrayed as needing to get satisfaction behind Sheldon's back?, why can't she ask him to put on his conductor attire just for her?, with him knowing and participating of it, as with the HP roleplay, even if it didn't culminate with the "holy grail of p-in-v" as you call it, what's holding her back?, just because it's not her birthday yet?, what kind of nosense is that?
The bolded part, let me see, apart of the make out session that occurred off-screen, the reglamentary birthday-sex and the goodbye kiss before going to the spa, what other sorts of physical amorous activities that undoubtedly have Amy totally satisfied there had been?
See, my own dissatisfaction doesn't have to be with the amount of sex/kisses/etc. Amy could be getting, once again it has much more to be with balance and with the disrespect the writers have to her as a character. With this last thing I know it's quite hard for me to ever get satisfaction, Sheldon is the writer's priority, if not even Leonard and Penny, the other two main protagonists, are getting the proper attention, what can I hope for tertiary character Amy?
Now, regarding balance, same story, however, since they are paying attention to them as a couple (because a half of it is Sheldon, of course), I have the hope they will reach a more or less satisfactory middle ground some day.

You know, one of my biggest problems with how their relationship turned out is that when they first met, he had tons of respect for her. He held her to such a high regard with the way he talked about her. He enjoyed spending time with her and playing their little games. It seemed like they were on the same wavelength.

Idk why things changed, but they did. I'm glad their on the same page now, but I still hated how their relationship "developed"

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

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Posted

19 minutes ago, mirs1 said:

As I said, it would have been enough to switch the lines, Amy should have said "We met on-line" And Sheldon "Our first date was at a coffee shop"; technically it would have been more precise, LOL!

Sheldon answered Bert's questions directly, Amy reminisced.  That (to me) made sense.  

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Posted

16 hours ago, spidergirl said:

You should not hold back your comments, all opinions are valuable and you write very well as you defend your point of views. Imo what matters here is how the show make who watch it  feel and not if their  opinions are shared by most of who watch it. Hope you can be more around here. :)

 

Thank you for your kind words Spidergirl :)

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Posted (edited)

19 hours ago, sdffcx said:

about the once a year coitus thing, I wanna say sheldon isn't asexual,part of me guess this is wishful thinking,but we know he  has repressed his desires and feelings for a very long long time,which have had a profound effect on his ways of thinking or doing. So if he wanted to have coitus with Amy(regardless spontaneously  or logically), it's understandable that he had to formalize it before doing it. just like the RA. Birthday is a good excuse.So he can do it in a ceremonial way.

Without formalizing it, part of him would stop him to do it because the Klingon stuff or the“emotionless robotic system"  would stuck in the way.but if one asks me,why he could't do it in Valentine's Day,his own birthday or other days ,I would be dumbstruck. sorry , I can‘t explain it. Because sheldon is too busy,and it's a comedy?

and yes, I hold the view  that so far sheldon aren't able to have coitus with Amy spontaneously.so far he didn't act like one having the ability to be spontaneous or to say, inside part of him" the system" have destroyed his ability to be spontaneous. But it's sill possible "the system" is being eaten gradually by the love,the shamy love, altough it would need a very long time..I don't know when  "the eating" started and if it was too late or not.

It's a pity we can't see  very much about Amy's POV on the coitus or their relationship in the show.I don't know my post is understandable or not. sorry if my post is full of bad grammars. thanks:) 

See, I used the term "asexual" because, in essence, asexuality is the lack of need to perform sex, which had been the kind of attitude Sheldon has displayed so far, I mean, until this moment he had never expressed his desire to have sex just because he feels like he needs it, the closest could be when he wanted to "make a baby" at Amy's lab, and still, that example remains ambiguos, precisely because procreation was still the excuse.

That's why I think that the writers had unintentionally created a portrayal of a romantic asexual in Sheldon,  I say unintentionally because I honestly don't think they are interested at all in giving asexuality a representation, but that it was a happy accident in their intent to keep him "unique", they want him to remain dettached to sex, even when involved in a romantic and now sexual relationship. It all is still subject to change according to their whim, of course.

Even so, you may be right about the spontaneity thing and how difficult it's for him to not have some sort of control at any point of his life so, you may have a point here too.

And I agree completely with you, it's a pity we don't have practically anything of Amy's POV, I really think it would enrich a lot the narrative, also, they are wasting the great comic potential they have with Mayim/Amy, I mean, I feel for the rest of the characters that are also being ignored, but, being completely selfish, if Amy is going to be front center either way for being Sheldon's partner, I wouldn't mind if she were used more effectively.

Edited by sarah7
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Posted

29 minutes ago, serenaded214 said:


You know, one of my biggest problems with how their relationship turned out is that when they first met, he had tons of respect for her. He held her to such a high regard with the way he talked about her. He enjoyed spending time with her and playing their little games. It seemed like they were on the same wavelength.

Idk why things changed, but they did. I'm glad their on the same page now, but I still hated how their relationship "developed"

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk
 

Because he was realizing he was falling in love with her and it was literally scaring the shit out of him.  His defense mechanism....taking his fear and anger out on her.  I think that is why she stuck it out for so long.  She knew what was going on with him so she patiently waited but it finally became too much and she simply couldn't do it anymore.  

They are on the same page because he has now embraced his feelings.  

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23 minutes ago, sarah7 said:

See, I used the term "asexual" because, in essence, asexuality is the lack of need to perform sex, which had been the kind of attitude Sheldon has displayed so far, I mean, until this moment he had never expressed his desire to have sex just because he feels like he needs it, the closest could be when he wanted to "make a baby" at Amy's lab, and still, that example remains ambiguos, precisely because procreation was still the excuse.

That's why I think that the writers had unintentionally created a portrayal of a romantic asexual in Sheldon,  I say unintentionally because I honestly don't think they are interested at all in giving asexuality a representation, but that it was a happy accident in their intent to keep him "unique", they want him to remain dettached to sex, even when involved in a romantic and now sexual relationship. It all is still subject to change according to their whim, of course.

Even so, you may be right about the spontaneity thing and how difficult it's for him to not have some sort of control at any point of his life so, you may have a point here too.

And I agree completely with you, it's a pity we don't have practically anything of Amy's POV in anything, I really think it would enrich a lot the narrative, also, they are wasting the great comic potential they have with Mayim/Amy, I mean, I feel for the rest of the characters that are also being ignored, but, being completely selfish, if Amy is going to be front center either way for being Sheldon's partner, I wouldn't mind if she were used more effectively.

This has been discussed, in depth....I tend to go with those who believe that Sheldon is not asexual, but rather demisexual.

A demisexual is a person who does not experience sexual attraction unless they form a strong emotional connection with someone.

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Posted (edited)

17 hours ago, wowbagger said:

@sarah7, I suspect there's a bit of a syllogism in the reasoning there. I don't disagree with many of your basic propositions, but I can't follow you to some of the inferences you draw. Regarding Shamy and coitus specifically:

 

Proposition 1: The showrunners frequently tank Amy's characterisation in service of whatever story they want to tell for Sheldon. Here I agree*.

Proposition 2: No woman with a 'normal' libido would stick around for a relationship with Sheldon, particularly in the absence of the shared interests and intellectual companionship of their early days. Here again I agree.

Inference: Therefore, Amy is a woman with a normal libido, whose desires are being suppressed or at least handwaved by the showrunners in service of Sheldon. And this is where I must respectfully disagree. I don't think you can draw this conclusion from propositions 1 and 2.

This is like saying 'all dogs are animals, some dogs have spots, therefore all animals have spots'. The first and second clauses are true, but you need a lot more information before you can make the claim in the third clause.

Specifically, I think we need to support the claim that a substantial part of Amy's satisfaction in her relationship with Sheldon stems from sexual intimacy, and that she needs more than she gets. And I would argue that neither seems to be true.

1) Amy may fancy Sheldon - and it is true that of all the women on the show, Amy is the one whose desire has been articulated more often than the others. Unfortunately, at least a little part of that I suspect came from mocking the frumpy girl, or more charitably what the showrunners consider the sheer absurdity of anyone fancying Sheldon (as @April points out).

2) Amy's sexual dissatisfaction tended to be bundled together with a number of other issues, mostly centring around Sheldon's general selfishness/rudeness** and a lack of the fun the pair used to have. Now, it makes perfect sense to me at least that, once the showrunners started writing the pair as more in sync intellectually, the issue of sexual desire both resolved itself and became less salient. But in general the frustration about sex and romance also tended to occur in seasons when a lot of other stuff was wrong with the relationship.

3) All of which is to say: would Amy like more sex, maybe? She might. Do I think that sex is particularly important to her? I don't actually think so. And especially not if the relationship is fun in other ways.

 

*I also think the showrunners frequently tank Sheldon's own characterisation in service of whatever story they want to tell, but that is a separate issue.

**You don't need me to say that I think Amy's own unrealistic expectations, passive aggression, immaturity and poor communication contribute to the issue. But I'll say it anyway.

Hummmm, no, actually the syllogism is much simpler:

Proposition 1: Women with average libido like to have sex more than once a year.

Proposition 2: Amy is a woman with average libido.

Inference: Therefore, Amy, as a woman with average libido, would like to have sex more than once a year.

Okay, now you may tell me I don't have enough information to claim that Amy is a woman with average libido (as a reference to over-average and below-overage), well, I tell you that the show had gave me much more evidence of Amy having an average sexual drive than a below average one, as some fellow shippers had told me. Let's also remember her sexual awakening was not with Sheldon, but with Zach, and her reaction to him was honest, she was aroused by him for real, it was not her trying to be like the "cool girls". Then there was Penny, I don't care how many other factors contributed to her crush for her, or if it was only temporary, she truly fancied her. Then her love and desire focused in Sheldon, and that desire, we perfectly know it, is intense and real.

Now you had also told me that she is much talk and no action, that if she really wanted to have sex that much she would had had it much earlier, or won't have lasted that much in a sexless relationship. Well, I have a couple notions for you: Emotional Stuntedness, Social Awkardness and Undesirablity. We all know how she was rejected and ostracized in her youth, how badly she suffered bullying and how her mother controlled her (the closet of sins), we all know she also had always been an odd duck, with weird hobbies and interests, not good qualities for popularity, we get to know she was always alone because girls and boys rejected her. Let's also add the ugly factor of undesirability the show had been putting on her, she's not only plain and has a ridiculous fashion sense, she is also unbelievable hairy and make gross noises, I  mean,  ugh! :rolleyes:

So, mix everything well and you have a coctel that says: "Yes, she remained a virgin just because she had a below average libido", yeah, right! The other three main guys had many of the same treats, and had little to no action, even when they all were real horn-dogs and were trying all the time, so, having an active sexual life is not just a matter of low or high libido, don't you agree?

Then the fact that she stayed in a sexless relationship. Add to the mixture the big problem of being in love. When you are in love, you are fixated in a person, and the desire to be with that one tend to won over the primal desire or the tendency to saciate a merely physical need. Amy was that immature, inexperienced, emotionally stunted, socially akward and hairy virgin that also was madly in love with a man that had issues with physical contact who also remained very unwilling to cooperate to overcome said issues for a long time, but that also gave her hopes of changing, given that she had waited for such a long time, she probably thought she could wait a bit more. So, she stayed because she loved him, plain and simple, she hold back her impulses, that doesn't automatically mean she didn't have them or that they were very low. Love and unexperience was also what probably prevented her to go on a sexual scapade during the break up and what make her get back with him when he asked.

Please note that l haven't used the Evil!Writers card to explain my reasoning.

Until now.

l have BlG problems with the once-a-year deal because it's a thing the writers are doing without caring at all about Amy, unlike other stuff that you can find an explanation in the same narrative (even if you have to squint really hard with some) this one doesn't. They just want to keep their Sheldon weird and, as usual, they don't care about her needs or desires. They make seem like everything is fine by not talking about it, while at the same time they plant insidious seeds of doubt, before birthday sex it was frustration and passive agression, after birthday sex it's coyness, but it's still there, her eagerness to touch his bare legs, her dissapointment when he just wanted to try his new laptop, her hungry stare at his naked body and the train fantasy. She is just there to lust after him but not to act on that lust, even when there's virtually no reason for her to keep holding back, she would just need to ask, but she can't, because she doesn't have a voice.

Then, when someone come and tell me that l don't have to worry, that by all accounts she is very happy and that she doesn't have that much of a sexual drive anyway, l'm sorry, but l can't believe it, because logic and what the show had been telling me through the years tell me otherwise.  And no, l'm not saying the only thing she cares about is sex, nor that all the other nice  stuff going on between them pales in comparison, but it is an important ingredient, not because l say so,  but because TPTB had make it that way, the show had focused much, much more on Shamy's sexual life than the other two couples and the single and mingling guy combined, and they just have done it twice!

l just would like that the whole situation were more balanced for the two of them for real, is that too much to ask?

Edited by sarah7

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Posted

I understand the frustration some have about the 'once a year' coitus deal. Frankly, I think the writers are being ridiculous, and I just want them to drop the topic entirely if they intend to keep this narrative. It makes zero sense to me, given the closeness and intimacy we've seen from Sheldon and Amy this season. These characters are clearly crazy about each other, and there really isn't any reason that they have given us for why Shamy have decided to stick to this arrangement. I would feel a little better about it if they showed Shamy having a discussion about the frequency of their intimate activities. Then we would know exactly where both parties stood on the whole thing. As it is, we are left having to make assumptions about Shamy's feelings on the matter.

Personally, I think Amy would love to be intimate with Sheldon more, just based on her behavior from previous seasons. I wouldn't go so far as to say she's unhappy with their arrangement, but we don't know because Amy hasn't shared her opinion with us. A part of me thinks Amy is just happy that Sheldon has sex with her at all because for so long she thought it might not happen. She may see there's no need to address things because their relationship is stronger than ever, and they're the closest they've ever been. She may think if she brings up concerns, it might freak Sheldon out and he'll stop sleeping with her all together. Who knows? So she figures, why screw up a good thing? 

I just hope the writers stop bringing up their sex lives and focus on other aspects of their relationship. How often they 'do it' is not the most interesting thing about Shamy. I'm still waiting for that glorious proposal! 

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Posted

4 hours ago, sarah7 said:

That's why I think that the writers had unintentionally created a portrayal of a romantic asexual in Sheldon,  I say unintentionally because I honestly don't think they are interested at all in giving asexuality a representation, but that it was a happy accident in their intent to keep him "unique", they want him to remain dettached to sex, even when involved in a romantic and now sexual relationship. It all is still subject to change according to their whim, of course.

I can't believe sheldon is asexual, that would strongly destroy my shamy heart.(but I guess my heart is already hurt)  so I run out of my way to rationalize sheldon's doing, to explain the damn once a year coitus thing. and I think you are right,it's a happy accident. just like in 4x20 what Amy said. 

4 hours ago, sarah7 said:

I really think it would enrich a lot the narrative, also, they are wasting the great comic potential they have with Mayim/Amy, I mean, I feel for the rest of the characters that are also being ignored, but, being completely selfish, if Amy is going to be front center either way for being Sheldon's partner, I wouldn't mind if she were used more effectively.

oh, I love old school Amy. and sometimes I am really unhappy that nowadays the sheldon-centric storylines didn't give enough chance to portray Amy's character.

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6 hours ago, joyceraye said:

My fondest memory of the meeting in the coffee shop is the moment Sheldon decided to make it a date and not a brush-off : ' May I buy you a beverage ?' .

I made that scene as my screensaver :icon_biggrin:

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7 hours ago, vonmar said:

It has been my wish ever since I knew about the ring that he would propose in that coffee shop.

I'd prefer the movie theater:-

Amy, I believe I would like to alter the paradigm of our relationship, in that, I would not object to us, no longer characterizing you, as not my fiancee.

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