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Debate Zone
[Spoilers] Season 10 Shipping Lanes

533 posts in this topic

Posted

1 hour ago, mirs1 said:

That's exactly what happens with Sheldon and Leonard, though...Whatever Sheldon does, it's his fault, whatever Leonard does, it's the writers' fault.

I thought it was whatever Sheldon does it's the writers fault, whatever Leonard does its his fault.  How you see it depends on how you see the show.  In reality,  it doesn't matter; writers fault/ the characters fault are the same thing. 

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Posted

14 hours ago, Jonny83 said:

Fingers crossed for a peaceful and smooth transition, though every other time it has been mentioned there has been angst so I won't get my hopes up. How they actually resolve it and what happens afterwards is just as important to me as the actual decision.

I'd hope Leonard and Penny would think of themselves first for a change, but who knows. Btw regarding this and several other posts on the matter it is always the writers, obviously. What I hate is how inconsistent they are in regards to the characters' behaviors.

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Posted

I find it funny, someone said When it is Sheldon people blame Sheldon. Just I Remember 7x24. When Sheldon went off on his own. And when PEnny and Leonard left him, everyone was blaming Penny. So I don't get that. As it is I agree, in any case the decisions and behaviour of the characters. Is all down to the writers. Every single Character. So blame the Writing, not the acting or characterization. 

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Posted (edited)

Not sure where to post this, but a Question for Lenny's when this shows LOL. Clearly at the end of Season 2 Penny was shown to be in love with Leonard. Hence her comment by the her door "It means I Don't want you to go". Yet when pressed later in S3, when Leonard declared his love, Penny did not recipucate. Now I can understand, she had been burnt in the past. And maybe technically, The Heart grows fonder in absence. But I always wondered that, if she was in love with Leonard in S2 finalie. How come she said thank you, then the look on her face, was oh shit I am not ready for this, :laugh:. Anyway just musing. IT just seems from the very begginning, Penny comes across as a gorgeous, vibrant, confident young women. But really she is scared. Scared mostly of loosing Leonard. I guess it was out of fear, she did not reveal her feelings towards Leonard in 2x24. And out of fear she rejected Leonard in S3. But I always wondered technically Penny was in love with Leonard then. So she was when Leonard declared. And I guess by that point, things got really serious. And seeing she has huge commitment issues, she got scared, freaked out. Just Penny was so deeply in love with Leonard by the end of S2. SO diddn't make much sense to me her rejection of Leonard around The Wheton Reacurrance. But I guess things changed around then. 

Edited by 3ku11
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Posted

1 hour ago, 3ku11 said:

Not sure where to post this, but a Question for Lenny's when this shows LOL. Clearly at the end of Season 2 Penny was shown to be in love with Leonard. Hence her comment by the her door "It means I Don't want you to go". Yet when pressed later in S3, when Leonard declared his love, Penny did not recipucate. Now I can understand, she had been burnt in the past. And maybe technically, The Heart grows fonder in absence. But I always wondered that, if she was in love with Leonard in S2 finalie. How come she said thank you, then the look on her face, was oh shit I am not ready for this, :laugh:. Anyway just musing. IT just seems from the very begginning, Penny comes across as a gorgeous, vibrant, confident young women. But really she is scared. Scared mostly of loosing Leonard. I guess it was out of fear, she did not reveal her feelings towards Leonard in 2x24. And out of fear she rejected Leonard in S3. But I always wondered technically Penny was in love with Leonard then. So she was when Leonard declared. And I guess by that point, things got really serious. And seeing she has huge commitment issues, she got scared, freaked out. Just Penny was so deeply in love with Leonard by the end of S2. SO diddn't make much sense to me her rejection of Leonard around The Wheton Reacurrance. But I guess things changed around then. 

I think I have an explanation for this, TPTB knew that it was to soon for Lenny to be end game if the show got renewed for more seasons. They need to slow down the Lenny story a little bit.

It could also be that TPTB knew the writers isn´t that good in writing married couples. :icon_biggrin:

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Posted (edited)

12 minutes ago, Lagernisse said:

I think I have an explanation for this, TPTB knew that it was to soon for Lenny to be end game if the show got renewed for more seasons. They need to slow down the Lenny story a little bit.

It could also be that TPTB knew the writers isn´t that good in writing married couples. :icon_biggrin:

Ohh I don't know they have done a good job in writing Howardette. And I think they have done ok writing Lenny. Yeah your prob right. Same reason they broke up Ross and Rachel. Or same reason Monica and Richard broke up. Because clearly Monica coulden't date Richard for eight years. SO they did the Well they or won't they scenario. I just thought from a character point of view. Breaking Lenny up soley over Penny not being able to say I Love You, so she did not want to commit. When she prob was already in love with him. I guess maybe I thought they could of slowed things down another way. I don't know Leonard starts making himself at home in 4b. With all his nerdy stuff. And Penny is look I can't do this, were moving to fast. I just thought throwing I love you after sex was a bit messy. But I guess that is Leonard's character lol. And I Guess it is also Penny's character, to make a scene, they are like a match made in messy heaven :icon_biggrin:. But I guess it showed in S6 Spoiler Alert Segmentation, Penny did not freak out when Leonard wanted to move in. Then she had to alot of growing up. But I just saw a contrast with Penny loving Leonard, and then ahh duno lol.  

Edited by 3ku11
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Posted

 

7 hours ago, Lagernisse said:

I think I have an explanation for this, TPTB knew that it was to soon for Lenny to be end game if the show got renewed for more seasons. They need to slow down the Lenny story a little bit.

It could also be that TPTB knew the writers isn´t that good in writing married couples. :icon_biggrin:

Their breakup was written and taped in late March-early April of 2011.  At that point, TPTB knew they had a fourth season, and probably more, as a three year renewal was announced in early January, 2012.   Amy and Bernadette both became regulars about a month before the announcement, by then, TPTB were aware the show was going to be on for three more years. 

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Posted (edited)

I guess then they did slow down the relationship because they knew they had 3 or 4 years at least. And prob coulden't have Lenny together all that time. So they were kept apart for two years. I just thought a difference in writing from 2x24 The Monopolar Expedetion to 3x19 The Wheaton Reacurrance. With Penny clearly in love with Leonard, but too scared to say anything. Then the whole shit this guy is getting too close, I need to move to Africa look hahahah. I just always though they should of slowed things down in a different way. But I guess it was IC, for Leonard to say I love you in bed. And it was also IC, for Penny to make a scene. Which of course Penny got crap for dumping Leonard in public. But in her defense, she was isolated. As it is it worked out for the best, they are now mostly happily married. 

Edited by 3ku11
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Posted

20 hours ago, Tensor said:

 

Their breakup was written and taped in late March-early April of 2011.  At that point, TPTB knew they had a fourth season, and probably more, as a three year renewal was announced in early January, 2012.   Amy and Bernadette both became regulars about a month before the announcement, by then, TPTB were aware the show was going to be on for three more years. 

You seem to imply that the Shamy business was brought in to dilute the Lenny action so the makers could spin it out over more, lucrative, seasons. That's what I think, but do you actually agree?

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Posted

2 minutes ago, JohnPhD said:

You seem to imply that the Shamy business was brought in to dilute the Lenny action so the makers could spin it out over more, lucrative, seasons. That's what I think, but do you actually agree?

Lenny were pretty prominent in 5 and 6. But beyond 7 its been all Shamy. TPTB clearly milked Shamy over the past 5 seasons. Was Shamy brought in to dilute Lenny, so they could spin it out over more corresponding seasons. Probably. 

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Posted

3 hours ago, JohnPhD said:

You seem to imply that the Shamy business was brought in to dilute the Lenny action so the makers could spin it out over more, lucrative, seasons. That's what I think, but do you actually agree?

Not quite. While the timing of the break up suggests, to me, that Lorre was probably aware of the progress of the negotiations, hence knew he was probably going to need to spred things out.  The addition of Amy and Bernadette were, I don't want to say dilute, but were rather there to fill. To me, for it to be a dilution, they would have had to take time away from Lenny.  But, as they were broke up, it allowed the writers to keep Lenny seperate, and do other stories and look at the other characters, outside the group. This has the effect of slowing down Lenny. 

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Posted

On 7/2/2016 at 7:23 AM, Jonny83 said:

The subject also always seems to be brought up at bad times, Sheldon having a career crisis and Sheldon just been dumped by the woman he loves for example.

I genuinely believe that he is ready to live with Amy even though at first it's going to be difficult for him and there will undoubtedly be issues until they get to that happy point. He's thinking of marrying her, not even Sheldon could realistically suggest that they get married but not live together. Writers if you even remotely suggest that in joke form I will kill you! (not literally).

Sometimes I have to wonder if Lenny brings it up during shitty times because subconsciously they are afraid to leave d/t dealing with conflicts that are easier to put aside to help Sheldon (Penny's mid life crisis, Leonard's possible subconscious resentment of the Shenny friendship at times that he's the odd man out).  Just a though that's crossed my mind more than once.

On 7/3/2016 at 8:45 AM, Jonny83 said:

Like April said I think there is plenty of comedy to be had if Amy and Sheldon lived together and them both trying to make it work. I have no doubt there would be some drama and bumps along the road early on but in the end it would work out.

Sheldon has changed and grown, he may now be at the point where he is ready to live with Amy you would certainly think so if he is contemplating asking her to marry him. I think if the writers had any sense they would embrace more changes and progress on the Shamy front as they have been together overall for a while now and they have come a long way between Season 4 to the present.

There has always been a fear with the the writers about how much you change the characters as they grow and have new experiences and how quickly they implement that change. I can understand that fear as this is a highly successful show and tinkering it can potentially lead to problems, but I think they could speed up the Shamy quite a bit now after some momentous milestones have been reached and the fan-base would be fine with that.

I think part of the issue is CL is milking the TBBT train like he did the TAAHM one.  However, as other shows have proven (i.e. Bones, my other love), you can have the characters move forward and still have plenty of funny stories.  I think Amy and Sheldon moving in together would be funny as shit as they adjusted to moving in together.  I could see them adjusting better than Lenny adjusting together alone at 4B because 4A is their safe haven.  They will have to deal on their own.

I love the show, but I think unless there is some serious movement, cap it off at 11 seasons or even reduced eps for S11 so it stays on top like Frasier, not become shitty as long winded as Roseanne.

 

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Posted

12 hours ago, djsurrey said:

I agree. I think they know what they are doing. By creating a little chaos they get attention and then get to do make-up episodes.

They write comedy sure. That does not mean they are barred from writing in some drama to get some attention.

Going for shock value solely to "get some attention" and the cost of your characters core personality is bad writing IMO

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Posted (edited)

16 minutes ago, JE7 said:

Going for shock value solely to "get some attention" and the cost of your characters core personality is bad writing IMO

I did not like the boat kiss thing but the vegas wedding...

emily.gif.48fc71037a4366ec2bb6d85ede45fe63.gif

By the way how many people are going to be able to write the book

"how to write a successful sitcom post 2010"

Not very many. TBBT is the book.

Edited by djsurrey
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Posted (edited)

3 hours ago, Chrismo said:

But it was drama overkill in the season 8 finale when it was both Shamy and Lenny. IMO the Shamy drama made some sense. The Lenny drama made no sense since they got married anyway.

Maybe the Lenny drama in 8x24 and 9x01 was just a setup for that preposterous Shenny kiss in 9x02.

Edited by luminous
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Posted

Preposterous? For crying out loud, it was a dream and meant in fun. I think the Shenny kiss is the most watched video on CBS BBT video clips.

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Posted (edited)

3 hours ago, Spaced_up said:

Preposterous? For crying out loud, it was a dream and meant in fun. I think the Shenny kiss is the most watched video on CBS BBT video clips.

Yes, preposterous! ...or ridiculous. It's just my opinion. YMMV. And yes, of course I know it was a dream.

Edited by luminous
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Posted

45 minutes ago, Spaced_up said:

Preposterous? For crying out loud, it was a dream and meant in fun. I think the Shenny kiss is the most watched video on CBS BBT video clips.

Then maybe they shouldn't have emphasized on the whole brother/sister dynamic as much. And even after the kiss, the writers would flat out tell us that Sheldon and Penny are like brother and sister. Nobody has to see them like that, but the show goes out of it's way to tell us that their dynamic is of that kind, then they do the kiss sequence. That makes the kiss... uncomfortable to watch, to say at least. I mean, did Leonard dream of Sheldon kissing Penny before, when they [Leonard and Penny] were actually broken up? Or after that "friends with benefits" misunderstanding from season two, I think?

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Posted

19 minutes ago, No Regrets said:

Have Leonard and Sheldon make out and I guarantee that video would get more views.

I think I just threw up a little in my mouth.

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Posted

Ts, ts, so little tolerance for the non-canon pairings around here. Shelnard is totally the way to go! And concerning the Shenny kiss, I think most people probably don't take it as seriously as we sometimes do (including the writers). It was just a funny thing to film because the squabbling mismatched pair is, after all, a staple of romantic comendy as well, and hell, they could've gone that way in the first two seasons, although it was always more likely that Penny and Leonard would end up together as your typical will-they-won't-they pair. The networks had a catchy scene for the adverts and the actors looked like they had fun with it, too. And if a Shenny or two liked it, oh dear, well I don't think that will magically morph the last six seasons into Shenny, so it's really not a threat.

But of course, we might all end up moved to the the Shipping Lanes if we continue like this.

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Posted (edited)

Nah, I can't tolerate Shenny and 902 kiss not because I see them as threats to canons since Bill had emphasized several times a romantic Shenny will never happen. I can't tolerate them simply because I think they're gross. 

Speaking of gross, I can't tolerate the "other husband/weird husband" line in the latest TR either. I'm not surprised at all that Sheldon is in Lenny's wedding, like, what do you expect. If the line was "husband and wife and son", I'll be totally fine with it. But actually calling Sheldon "the other husband" in Lenny's marriage with Leonard standing right there is a bit too much IMO. But I'm sure this is just a joke. 

Edited by camelliayao
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Posted

2 hours ago, No Regrets said:

Have Leonard and Sheldon make out and I guarantee that video would get more views.

 

Bleach.jpg

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52 minutes ago, luminous said:

After reading some comments in the discussion thread I begin to have second thoughts regarding this "other/weird husband" line from Bernie. I was so happy with the taping report and I grinned like a cheshire cat that I was willing let this line slip, since Sheldon is expressing something positive to Lenny. But now this line could be that one little fault that has the makings to spoil my enjoyment of the episode, despite all the Lenny sweetness. How will Bernie say it? Is this line not disrespectful towards Leonard? What must he think, that Sheldon is also called "husband"? I know it's a joke. But the more I think about it, the more uncomfortable I begin to feel with that joke.

A then...a group hug instead of a Lenny kiss at the end of the ceremony.

Maybe someone can help me to get back on the happy trail. I want my cheerfulness back from the taping day.

I just took it as another example of the Shenny fan service that TPTB insist on giving us. It's just another in a growing list that's been happening regularly since Season 7.

Only Sheldon understands and supports Penny's dream, so they run off and go to dinner and see a psychic; Sheldon likening Leonard to a drug-resistant staph infection and Penny as the urethra that cannot get rid of it; Sheldon and Penny attempt the experiment to fall in love; the character assissination of Leonard where he kissed another woman and his resultant 'dream kiss'; married woman Penny falling for Sheldon's manipulation so now married Penny lives with Sheldon where single Penny never did or would even consider;  Penny supportive of Sheldon 'awww. I just want to hug him when says things like that' vs snarky with Leonard 'you probably deserved it'; Penny willing to ditch Sheldon's birthday party and hide out with him in the bathroom; and now, like Leonard, Sheldon too is 'married' 'weird husband/other husband' to Penny. 

Now all the examples I've given can be interpreted a myriad of ways. I know. I remember the lengthy and in depth conversations and dissections we've had after every single one. But, for me, all this amounts to is one very ugly thing and persistent thing: Shenny fan service.

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