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  1. I don’t think we should assume that this means Johnny is limiting his time in or leaving Hollywood, there are several working actors/Producers that work in Hollywood and don’t call the area home. I think the only thing we can assume is that the home he is selling is not needed by him anymore and he doesn’t want to mess with it anymore, so he is selling. Actually, based on the article, the home was now just an expensive rental property to him and not his home.
    4 points
  2. While the dates (the tribute taping with Johnny, the announcement of Hirsch's appearance, and the writing and taping of TBBT) all match, as to how Hirsch became Leonard's father , what the actual reason for the wedding redo is unclear. I'm aware of several possible reasons for the redo (some of them overlapping), but all of them have been either hinted at or based on innuendo. There hasn't been and official reason for having the redo. Perhaps that will be one of the things we'll find out when the book is published in a couple of months.
    3 points
  3. And yet a few episodes before this at Sheldon's birthday party, it was brought up that she wasn't at their wedding in Vegas and she was fine with it. Sometimes, it seems like all Lenny's relationship is treated like a joke. An example I can think of is when Penny is considering going to work for Zack. Leonard is talking about it with Raj and Sheldon. Raj says, "Oh she's going to leave you. Might as well get it over with". Lines like that, I don't find funny at all.
    3 points
  4. It looks like Johnny’s either not coming back to LA, or he’ll be looking for a new place.
    3 points
  5. I'm glad you liked it. As a Lenny I didn't. The writers gave them the almost perfect wedding, while both Lenny weddings had it be about Sheldon. He forced his way into the second and made it impossible for the gang to watch the first one due to him acting like a petulant child. He also caused problems with Howard and Bernadette's wedding while trying to insert Klingon in his speech when Bernadette said no Klingon. But, to some it was funny because it's baby Sheldon. Well, that is enough ranting for now.
    3 points
  6. Wow We probably can name hundreds of scenes and dialogue that the continuity factor was abused
    2 points
  7. I'm going to disagree with this a bit. The writers, when they chose to, could write Lenny this way(there are examples in seasons 1-5 and near the end of season six, say "Chew Toy" and later). But from some bit and pieces I've been able to put together, there were reasons they shied away from writing them that way for a period (season seven through the middle of season 11) although I prefer not to say why, because I don't have all the information to be sure of the reason. One example from season 12, that a lot of people don't like, Penny drops the bomb that she didn't want kids. And yes Leonard was angry and walked out. But, they did later talk about it calmly and lovingly and decided they were then good with it. And, even when Leonard wanted to donate sperm to Zack, they had different opinions, but did come together to talk about it.
    2 points
  8. I think this is true Even though Penny had her snarky moments toward Leonard deep down she truly loved him. Wasn't she the one that brought up marriage when they got engaged and wasn't she the one that suggested they go to Las Vegas to get married? It just seems to me that because of her "street savvy and smarts" it was more adaptable for her to bust on Leonard and he really didn't seem to mind as long as she woke up next to him in the morning. And as I have mentioned in a previous post the writers did not know how to write for P&L as a loving mature married couple.
    2 points
  9. He couldn't handle the first and only time. I mean, she was drunk. Loved how she called him Quickdraw. He also had dreams of being with Bernadette. If you remember his "Bernadette play my clarinet ".
    2 points
  10. I believe that there was no actual plan for a wedding redo but then they got the opportunity to have Judd Hirsh on the show to play Leonard's dad and they came up with the idea of another wedding ceremony ( @Tensorwill know more than I do ). So when the lovely Beverly thanked Lenny for not inviting her at the Vegas wedding, she meant it but they had to "tweak" the character a bit to justify the wedding redo so you have a Beverly who felt insulted for not being invited ( and a Beverly who actually cares about her son's happiness!! ) Well, that's Raj for you. Only a few episodes before he said he was jealous of Lenny and Howardette and their happy relationships.... I don't pay attention to what he says because he's the one who's unable to be in a healthy relationship , he's more background noise than anything as far as i'm concerned. Also i believe the three major relationships were treated as some big joke at one point or another. Look at Howardette for instance. They had their sweet moments but for a very long time their dynamics were awful , he was a man-child and she was a harpish shrew. It was implied that Penny ruined Bernie's life by setting her up with Howard.... The Shamy were a big joke to everybody .... I don't know if Lenny were treated any worse than the other two couples honestly. Maybe we notice more the jokes that were done at Lenny's expense because we care more about those two. I don't know. The one thing that bothers me really is that the writers took the time to deepen the emotional connection between H/B and S/A. They never did with Lenny that's why we were stuck with the same jokes with them.
    2 points
  11. All three of his so-called friends made stupid remarks like that. None of them were funny. That's one of the reasons I don't think of them being friends. They were more like acquaintances than friends. Raj, Howard and Sheldon mocked and teased more than being supportive. They enjoyed mocking and teasing, but got upset when they were mocked or teased. Ranting over, for now.
    2 points
  12. I have to agree. We don't know what his plans for the future are right now.
    2 points
  13. Looks that way Hopefully he is looking for a new place possibly more child friendly. If he stays in Tennessee then maybe his career is going in another direction.
    2 points
  14. Totally agree. I could rant for days, but I gotta let it go for now. Something will happen to set me off again in the future. I will try to curtail any of my rants that this way may come.😊
    2 points
  15. Totally agree Why do the writers always upstage P&L. In their bliss of an engagement announcement they get pushed aside for Raj's sex life.......really WTH? Then like you mention in their first wedding Sheldon is his overbearing obnoxious self and makes everyone miss the ceremony. In P&L redo wedding Sheldon becomes an even bigger a.....hole and is more obnoxious and insulting the whole episode, even to his own mother. And in the final episodes they brush aside P&L baby announcement with Shamy quest for the Nobel prize. Such blatant disregard for TBBT core couple. End of rant
    2 points
  16. Let me guess, it's the whole "Leonard is terrible to Penny because he made fun of her believing in astrology" thing, isn't it? There is so much that he could be critical of her on, and isn't, such as loose morals, poor money management, excessive drinking, stealing services (wifi), stealing from Good Will, being a slob, and mooching meals. Leonard doesn't criticize her for any of those things. But he has problems believing that anyone is serious about astrology and he is a bad person. One episode in how many years? Maybe she should just run to Sheldon's arms, he never criticizes her for anything. (Imagine me holding up a sarcasm sign at this point).
    2 points
  17. It's simple. The show stopped being TBBT and became the Shamy show. It was TBBT in name only. The writers were so focused on Shamy that the rest of cast were basically filler parts.
    1 point
  18. There has to be a logical explanation. To me it just feels like they got stuck and then gave up on them but surely there's more than that. Like you said they have their reasons , I just can't think of any good reasons why they would treat two of their original characters that built the show that way though . The mind boggles.
    1 point
  19. I remember the spa episode. Not only did they didn't show the conversation but Lenny ended up with a relationship agreement. Who's idea was that? That was a waste as it was never mentioned again. Along with the tenure position that wasn't mentioned again. I particularly like how they can't remember earlier seasons. That DNA structure of Sheldon's was moved by him to get to the wall safe, but fell apart when Leonard moved in one of the last two episodes.
    1 point
  20. I agree that they could write Lenny good, when they wanted to do it. But, those times were few and far between. I'm guessing that they thought that one couple had to have angst in their relationship. To me, there were too many arguments between Penny and Leonard. For example, she didn't want kids or she thought about wanting a one-bedroom loft in LA. Another good one was her wanting her brother to move in with them or her wanting to quit her job to try acting again. To top it off, she talked to Sheldon about it before talking to her husband. That's some of the great things we got from our dear writers.
    1 point
  21. I agree that she really does love Leonard. I just think of the times she said when Sheldon talks of when he was bullied that she wanted to hug him and make him feel better. Then turns to Leonard and tells he had it coming or that he deserved it. The viewing party episode when she took Sheldon's side in the roommate agreement meeting that Leonard didn't want to attend. To me she's been more sympathetic to Sheldon than Leonard. I could go on, I think that's enough of that. Your right, the writers didn't know how to write them or didn't care as they spent most of their time writing about Shamy. Then write for Howardette and kids. So they threw scrapes to Lenny and Raj.
    1 point
  22. No no no !! There might be times where Penny didn't look that loving or caring towards Leonard but when it's important she's got his back and she's there for him.
    1 point
  23. Beverly did seem to think of Sheldon as her son and Leonard as a second thought. At least Alfred turned into a decent father. After reading some of the fanfiction stories, I find myself thinking maybe Beverly was his stepmother. That could explain her treatment of Leonard. Oh well, it's fun to think about.
    1 point
  24. Yes. That sounds like Annie Potts from Young Sheldon.
    1 point
  25. I was upset by this news. I've been waiting all 3 years for him to come back to LA and start working. Of course, I understand that in order to act, you don't have to live in LA, but it's still unclear how things will turn out for him now.
    1 point
  26. I'm thinking he likes being where he is now. It's away from the hustle and bustle of Hollywood.
    1 point
  27. https://www.instagram.com/p/BjGY4QknFQ3/?hl=fr No clip but you can hear the voicemail Meemaw left him Is that Meemaw 's voice from YS ? Doesn't sound like the Meemaw we saw on TBBT
    1 point
  28. Make A Memory - Bon Jovi
    1 point
  29. If I remember correctly, the Shamy gave tasks to their friends ( and Georgie?) and the ones who'd score the more points would get to be matron of honour and best man. In the end Penny had an epiphany and realised she was Amy's best friend so she shoud be matron of honour . No explanation for Leonard other than he was Sheldon's oldest friend I would imagine. I don't think it was explained really. ( Penny says something along those lines to Leonard : " After everything you've done for him, he should have asked you" , so I guess Shedon asked him off-screen) No rant from me 🤣 Think i've ranted enough on that topic Okay now I've just realised i didn't answer your question at all oops I thought best man= groomsman. So nope, no explanation given for no Raj/Howard as groomsmen!
    1 point
  30. I can't remember seeing her driving it.
    1 point
  31. Make a Memory - Bon Jovi
    1 point
  32. Yeah it’s good to rant once in a while LOL Regarding their first wedding, I was okay with the idea of them eloping,somehow I never pictured a big wedding for these two so I was fine with that. In saying that, they didn’t have to make it look so cheap and tacky ( pot pourri from the bathroom , breakfast at the stippers’ club etc). They could have had a nice sweet wedding , even in Vegas. Of course, the boat kiss revelation made everything worse. What was even harder for me was them spending their wedding night apart. So you have Penny in 4B having to process all that on her own, Sheldon rambling because he’s obviously confused and hurting and as mad as I was at Leonard , seeing him like that in his armchair made me sad. There’s a guy who messed up big time and he knows he only has himself to blame. I really felt for the three of them. For me , the writers didn’t quite get the comedy nor the drama right in this particular episode. Now for their second wedding, I really didn’t care for Sheldon’s speech , as nice as it was. What pis*ed me off was the “ weird other husband that came with the apartment” line. I mean, was that really necessary ? They spent seasons showing us the bond between the three, be it friends, brotherly/sisterly , surrogate parents and even masters/pet and now he’s her “ weird other husband''? I don’t know if was more insulting to Leonard or Amy. Again , another nice moment that had to be cheapened. As for the Shamy wedding , it was the most iconic character in the show getting married so you’d expect the writers to put out all the stops for the big event, detailed wedding planning, a bachelor’s party , a nice ceremony and a honeymoon. Why they thought Lenny deserved less than that is anybody’s guess. I think for their vegas wedding they went for an " unconventionnal TV wedding" . Not a very satisfying explanation but that's all I can think of. H/B got a nice wedding then nothing, Lenny got 2 subpar weddings then nothing, Shamy got everything, that’s really not fair.
    1 point
  33. Have rewatched this episode again and it shows Sheldon going over the line again with his obnoxious, insulting attitude toward Penny that I wished she just would have slapped him and left him to walk home. This whole episode was just one big attack on Penny. What is it with these writers that they cannot have Sheldon making inappropriate comments and insults. OK one or two jokes would be funny but a whole episode to insult Penny on her sexual history and promiscuousness was plain lame after awhile. And it turns out Sheldon's calculations were wrong.
    1 point
  34. I think it's the type of jokes casual viewers find funny but because you and I love Penny we find them distasteful. I also believe that Penny didn't really care about what Sheldon thought of her sexual history. I was more puzzled by Leonard's lack of reaction at times ( like in the dialogue i posted before ,why is he not telling Sheldon to shut his trap ??? ) or remember season 10 " it's Penny's bed , plenty of men have been there before" , Penny laughs it off, but you have Leonard not saying anything?? Amy was no better, mind you, she could have told Sheldon he was being rude. Anyway , i agree , once Penny was engaged then married , all these jokes about her past promiscuity should have been dropped.
    1 point
  35. Here is my thinking, perhaps far fetched, but I'll go with it. Similar to domesticated turkeys, who lack skills to survive in an unprotected environment, Sheldon has been confined, granted by his own will, and lacks the skills and experience to navigate the social aspects of life. Turkeys are very intelligent, but have limited sight. When bred in captivity, they panic when faced with the unfamiliar. They will makes efforts in an attempt to escape and possibly injure other turkeys in the process. If they encounter rain before learning how to live in the environment, in an attempt to see beyond their field of vision, they hold their heads up and mouths open. This causes them to drown in the process. So, like Turkeys, Sheldon is intelligent, but when faced with uncomfortable social situations he is unfamiliar with, he panics. In an attempt to escape the situation and bring things back to his comfort level, he verbally injures those around him and and/or makes things awkward. He risks killing whatever social life he has because he can't keep his mouth shut! In the minds of Penny's family, they think Sheldon is as dumb as a turkey drowning himself rather than just seeking shelter out of the rain.
    1 point
  36. I agree with most of jenafan said except: 1. Sheldon's hug was creepy. 2 didn't buy Beverly's saying the best thing from her marriage was Leonard. One comment especially since Alfred said it first in all the years doesn't take away all the nasty things she has said.
    1 point
  37. Always love the accusation that all Leonard wants is sex with Penny. The writers have gone to great lengths to refute this. - Leonard made the comment in the pilot "our babies will be smart and beautiful". Sounds like a man who wanted more than sex from this woman. - Penny did not have sex with Leonard until season 3. Yet, Penny considered Leonard her close friend. Sounds like Penny did not get the memo that Leonard wanted only sex from her. Either that or he is incredibly patient. - The men that we have seen Penny with have had sex with her and not one has stayed around to want to marry her officially. That's one of the defining marks of the character, no one considers her special except as a sex toy. She has called her self, such things as "a loser" and "toothless Oakie" next to the other women in Leonard's life. As Raj said, she has but one arrow in her quiver. The only one who thinks she is special is Leonard. - Leonard had sex with her, we presume, dozens of times in season 3. And he told her he loved her, which she found shocking. If Leonard only wanted her for sex, his attitude should have been, been there, done that. Why was he different then the other men before? - If Leonard was only after sex, he got plenty of it from other women before and after his sexual relationship with Penny. Leslie, Stephanie, Dr. Plimpton, Joy, Priya and four unnamed women from "The Love Car Displacement". It can be argued that Leonard was having a better run without Penny and in several cases was going up the social/economic ladder. Yet Leonard would drop any of them in a minute for Penny. - When Leonard said on the platonic date that he did everything for her to get sex, what would have been her response if he had said, "because I love you". She would have freaked out again. - After they agreed to start their relationship for the third (and most likely final) time, Penny did not have sex with him for four months in season 5 and for an undetermined amount of time after the proposal during sex fiasco. All in all, L/P have spent MORE time not having sex than periods of sexual activity. The writers have hammered away with these points for seasons now. The relationship is NOT about sex but about mutual love.
    1 point
  38. Tonstar already covered most of this but maybe repetition will help you get it. She got herself fired from SA-2 by standing up for Leonard after he stood up for her. He bought her a car so she didn't have to go back to the CCF. All Sheldon did was make her problem all about him. The sex thing was not true, just deflection because he really has loved her for a long time. Didn't go through with the cheating, but Priya cheated on him. That relationship was over anyway, Leonard just didn't accept it yet. Everyone likes their ego stroked now and then. Doesn't make them a bad person. Stephanie had zero interest in creepy Howard, and who could blame her. And she came on to Leonard. Oh yeah, the Arctic expedition. Make Sheldon more bearable while in isolation with him, but preserve the data for later. Better than the alternatives R/H were considering. It's Sheldon's own fault for jumping the gun. Penny's "deepest secret" was hardly secret. Did you not watch season 7? How did he cause the Penny Blossom failure? By getting her more business? What a bastard! Someone bears his heart to the one he loves and wants it reciprocated? What a bastard! Sheldon has explicitly called Penny stupid multiple times. If you're referring to the community college thing after their first date, he did not imply she was stupid, just wanted her to better herself. If you're referring to the psychic, wanting to show her what a complete waste of time and money crap like that is, is a good thing IMHO. Never apologized for what? Shielded? You think he hasn't gotten his share of grief over the course of the series? Take the Shenny blinders off!
    1 point
  39. @sECUREIJ Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Er... NOT. Go her fired. Really he was defending her. He got her a car because she needed one you help people you love. If Sheldon was such a good friend, why didn't he help her or buy her a car. They both used each other for sex in S3 He wanted advice and he didn't cheat in the end She was not interested in Howard and they only kissed that night. No sex. He is free to date any one He wants he was single. They all stab each other in the back. He didn't cause the business to fail, he was only trying to help. And what's wrong with asking your gf if she loves you. They have been going out for 7 months for god sake If he thought she was stupid he will never have dated her. Seriously your points are flawed but thats your opinion and you are entitled to it but I disagree on all. Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk Yeah, he should be executed for his crimes against his friends and his girlfriend. Off with his head. Bad, bad leonard.
    1 point
  40. I've only been able to watch it once last night, and that was after I saw some of the explosions going on here with negative reactions to the episode. So I was a little more self-conscious while watching the episode, and was surprised to find myself laughing a lot. I enjoyed the episode, quite a bit, really. Some of the lines and such I remember off the top of my head: 1) Amy's "that isn't true" line to Sheldon actually cracked me up. I've gotten tired of most of the jokes regarding Amy/Sheldon and their differing views on sex, but this one actually was funny to me. 2) The stuff about Stuart looking like a possum, 3) Sheldon's line delivery on "all of them" to close that scene, 4) Leonard's "I should have sent Sheldon over," 5) Bernadette "faking it," 6) the entire scene with Amy making tea, and Sheldon trying to be funny, from "BRAIN LESIONS!" to "Stick up your prefontal cortext" to the pants dropping and pleased waddle, 7) the fact I have always had "kumquat" and "ointment" on my own list of inately funny words - great choices, writers. I know I laughed at more, but those are the ones which stick out in my memory 24 hours later. As for Leonard and Penny, one of the things that I liked this episode is that it made me question the whole practice of picking sides or keeping score between them over who has been better or worse in the relationship. Or even if their dynamic is healthy or whatever. Penny's scene was cut, and she was obviously incredibly upset about it and had every right to be. No matter how unsuccessful she has been, this is still her dream and in her mind, her career. It must have been a huge blow to have worked so hard, to have been so happy about landing this little part, only to have it stolen from her. And then to have it rubbed in that her whole family and everyone she knew in Nebraska witnessed this happen, and apparently it might also be tired into her brother making a break from rehab, and I'm sure she felt at rock bottom. At the same time, she set up Leonard in one of the classic "there's no way to win here" arguments she does (the "do I pick losers or turn men into losers" being the classic and original) where she wanted honesty but at the same time did not. As someone mentioned, when Leonard tries to give her platitudes to save her feelings, she cuts right through that, so he gives her honesty and she blows up when she doesn't hear what she wants to hear. I think that Leonard did give her the truth - she's beautiful and talented, but he messed up by saying she's just as beautiful and talented as a million other girls she's competing against, because every girl wants their boyfriend to think they are the most beautiful and most talented of any other woman on the planet. However, she told him to be honest, and his assessment of her situation was completely accurate. In fact, if Penny isn't aware of herself, the competition, and the whole status of her situation as a struggling actress after 10 years, she really hasn't taken the hard cold look at things which would help her actually make smarter choices and succeed. In fact, as we know, she's based her decisions on psychics telling her to cut her hair or her astrology charts, and put her faith in stuff that Leonard knows full well guide her wrong. (And this fight, and the strength of their difference in opinion on the issue of her chances to make it as a star in Hollywood remind me of that particular fight over her spiritual beliefs in hokum like psychics and such.) So, what can they do? To be honest, I think they are both operating out of who they are as people, out of positions which are partly justified and partly too emotionally charged, and each side has it's points. Penny shouldn't give up her dream if it's been her dream her whole life, but perhaps she really needs to start approaching it far more realistically, and work a lot harder at it. On the other hand, Leonard is a scientist, and he can't help but take a realistic, logical look at Penny's dream and calculate the odds, but this way of looking at things is at odds with his big heart, and his desire to have a more emotionally fulfilling life and relationships than those offered by his family, his best friend, and probably the majority of people in his field. It's actually long past due that Leonard and Penny had a fight over her career, her approach to it, her chances of success in it. Personally, even though I think that Penny storms at Leonard too much and in an oftentimes immature way about this, she's right when she tells him that there are some things she just has to do, and that she has to do them for herself. It's for her own self-esteem and sense of self worth, and there's just some things that Leonard can't, and shouldn't, fix or try to do for her. Leonard knows that intellectually, but at the same time, he sees how upset she gets and how emotional she can be, and he just wants to try to mitigate that the best he can and keep her happy. It's that point which, oddly, relates to the reaction to this episode as a whole: growth doesn't usually come out of a lot of happiness. We do the majority of our growth and learn the most from our struggles. I feel that the complaints about "drama" - all of which had a lot of aspects to keep them funny (the "kick me" sign, Penny's "you didn't just seriously go uuuHHHuhuhuhuhhhhhHHH??!!," or "I should have sent Sheldon over," are a few of the lines and such which were inserted to keep up the levity), go against the fact that this stuff is actually GOOD - it'll create growth, it'll make characters more mature and better in their relationships, that this is just the stuff you go through in LIFE. This episode is just setting up the beginning of, or part of the middle of, the season and the arcs and dynamics and such we've seen for Leonard and Penny. We're just in the middle, we don't know how it's going to turn out of whether it's going to have a happy ending or heartbreaking one, but I don't think there's a lot of justification for throwing in the towel or a lot of handwringing and nailing oneself up on the cross now. See the story through to the end, and we'll see if this stuff is actually stuff to learn from. As for being against drama entirely, or complaints about the rom-com thing, and etc - this show was a rom com from the moment in the pilot that Leonard uttered the words, "Our babies will be smart AND beautiful." While, in a way, Raj and Stuart, for instance, sitting around the mall all day, trying to get themselves to talk to people but finding it too difficult and even old woman with walkers too intimidating, definitely seems pathetic, considering how far Raj has come from the pilot when he couldn't even talk to woman at all. When he stumbled by luck into one-night stands, but couldn't handle a relationship to save his life. Is he sadder now that he can talk to woman, that his goal is not random hook ups, but real love, a real relationship, and he's out there as he has always been, at least trying? I don't think so. Are Penny and Leonard navigating one of the thorniest issues they will have in their relationship - Penny's dream of being an actress - with some genuine emotion and difficult things said and done somehow worse than when Leonard couldn't even screw up the ability to ask her out directly? Look how far they have come. So....I don't know. I found it interesting, and for me, it's gotta be interesting, and then it can be funny or emotional or what have you, but first and foremost it really has to be interesting. I found this episode interesting, and moreover I found it very REAL. I mean, make up some cockamamie thing about Penny marrying Zack which barely, BARELY fits into the timeline, let alone makes a lick of sense, as an excuse to bring Zack back and set up a lot of humor. It's funny, but for me, it pushed believability a bit too far and I rolled my eyes at a lot. However, none of it made me uncomfortable nor hit close to home because it wasn't too realistic. This episode, though, showed some seriously realistic slice-of-life shit, and I wonder if that's what made it so uncomfortable for some. Raj and Stuart's struggle to overcome their shyness and talk to women - very realistic. Penny's despair over her scene being cut, her drunkeness and acting out in her sadness and frustration - very realistic. Leonard's despair over the fight, and the proposal - very realistic. Sheldon getting fixated on something, as he has done zillions of times in the past (mathematically figuring out his life expectancy, and trying to pick up jogging and a new diet, the whole friendship algorithm, 3-person chess, reading 3 books on acting before showing up to his first acting lesson, etc - he does this all the time, how the hell is this remotely OOC?) and Amy getting exhausted by this new obsession - quite realistic. I liked it, and I have to say that after watching it, I'm very curious where they are going with it and I laughed several times. Logically, sounds like I'm amused and going to keep watching, and I have a feeling that's what the writers were aiming for, so I'm all good.
    1 point
  41. He starts to be critical of her many many times, then stops himself in time... Agreed. Sheldon doesn't stop himself. He just lets her have it.
    1 point
  42. A common argument from some Sheldon / Penny supporters is that Leonard and Penny have nothing in common. They then say Sheldon would be a better match for Penny because they have so much in common. So, I thought I would try and list some of their traits and interests and see if this is true. SHELDON’S TRAITS: Sheldon is compulsively neat and organized; Sheldon has (selective) germ phobias; Sheldon is frugal with his money; Sheldon’s existence is extremely structured; Sheldon is averse to physical contact (even with himself); Sheldon is intellectual and logical (though OCD behaviors tend to be illogical); Sheldon tries to be unemotional; Sheldon is without empathy; Sheldon places himself and his interests before those of others; Sheldon is saddened by stupid people; Sheldon is atheistic, though informed about and tolerant of religions; Sheldon is dismissive of things, activities and interests that don’t appeal to him or line up with his worldview SHELDON’S INTERESTS: Science; Science Fiction; Video Games; Comic Books; Trains; Computers; Technology; Collectible Toys Related To Science Fiction; Sheldon PENNY’S TRAITS: Penny is slovenly and disorganized; Penny has no issue with germs or bugs, though she says she doesn’t like to get dirty; Penny spends in excess of her income; Penny lives in the moment; Penny enjoys physical contact; Penny is very empathetic; Penny believes in supernatural and mystical forces; Penny is ruled by her emotions; Penny is non-religious, though she frequently uses deific appeals in her speech PENNY’S INTERESTS: Acting; Romantic Movies; Dancing; Popular Music; Clothes and Shoes; Care Bears and Beanie Babies; Men and Sex; Drinking Alcohol I am sure that there are a great many things missing from both lists. But looking at them I really don’t see many commonalities. I have not composed a similar list for Leonard but I’m not sure there would be any more compatibility between him and Penny. One major difference is that Leonard is a little more open to new ideas and activities. But, not a whole lot more. From a compatibility or common interest perspective neither, Sheldon or Leonard, appears to be any kind of match for Penny. Leonard, however, wants to be in a relationship with Penny. Leonard is not critical or judgmental towards Penny. Leonard wants to be with her, spend time with her and is willing to try to make a relationship with her workable. Sheldon is extremely critical of Penny (and everyone else but Amy), her lifestyle, her career, her sexual habits, her intelligence, and frequently comments on how much time she spends in his apartment. He maintains an air of superiority towards her and is discomfited anytime she gains the upper hand in their interactions. Any relationship with Sheldon would be on Sheldon’s terms. Penny’s relationship with Leonard is on Penny’s terms. Leonard’s relationship with both of them is on their terms, not his. Leonard is an appeaser. This is also the approach Amy is taking with Sheldon. Sheldon and Penny are both assertive and demanding. Someone would have to change for them to make a relationship work. Neither seems to be the type to do so. Is a Shenny relationship impossible? Of course not, as they are fictional characters on a television show. Season six could start with Sheldon taking up bull riding and Penny being accepted into Harvard Law School. All it takes is the creative minds behind the scenes writing it into a script. Both would be illogical and completely out of character for the ‘people’ we have come to know; but, not much more so than having the two of them developing a romantic interest in one another.
    1 point
  43. Cbolt, you are actually making my point here. You started saying "Why I like Shenny" but went on about LP and why you dislike them. You are not saying why you like Shenny, you are just ranting about how much you dislike another pairing. Talk about the Shenny and why do you want them to happen and that's ok, but you are not doing that, you are just ranting on something else. And that is what happens a lot of times. And that is precisely what I was talking about. I would love to have a real and civilized discussion on the pros and cons of a hipothetical Sheldon/Penny relationship, but it always turns into a Lenny/Shamy hate fest instead of discussing S/P. Also, Leonard and Penny having hardly anything in common simply cannot be an argument in favor of liking Sheldon and Penny together. They have even less in common. One really has to believe in 'polar opposites attract' to be able to believe in Shenny at all. So the above is sounding pretty confused to me.
    1 point
  44. "As for Leonard, it looks like lately the writers do not like him too much, since they are turning him bit by bit into a little creep. One thing is certain - unless Leonard changes, he will cheat on Penny, and Penny will cheat on him. Their future will be bleak and pathetic and boring. Why? Because they are together for all the wrong reasons. There's no spark, there's no love, there's lust from Leonard and a feeling of being a loser from Penny - that's NOT the stuff that long-lasting healthy relationships are made of. " I don't see where you are getting this "he's turned into such a creep" thing from. Frankly by refusing to go with Amy to the wedding after she met all of his silly requirements set down in his relationship contract and his wearing a dress they are making Shelly look like the biggest jerk in the show. As for Leonard only dating Penny because of lust, her only dating him because she feels like a loser, and they are both going to end up cheating on each other, where in the world did that come from? Have either one of them ever shown that they would cheat on someone that they were dating? Leonard kissed a girl while Priya was India and then immediately told the girl that he was dating someone else and called Priya to confess. Penny has never been shown to do something like that. As for Leonard only being attracted to women because of lust, evidently it's never happened to you but most men are first attracted to women because of their looks. Later as they get to know them better they fall in love with them. Penny broke up with Leonard the first time because he told her that he loved her. She wanted to get back together with him later not because she felt like some kind of a loser but because she said he was such a nice guy. As I said, I don't know where your remarks came from but they are baseless using what the show has shown us of their relationship.
    1 point
  45. I am not a ‘Lenny’ shipper, nor do I have anger towards the ‘Shenny’ shippers. The relationship between Leonard and Penny (in all of its permutations) has been and continues to be a major underpinning to TBBT. From the show’s premise, through Episode One up until the end of Season Five there is a constant reference and reliance on this premise. It does not bother me and I will be fine if the show continues to advance the relationship in future episodes. I will also be fine if both characters move on to new relationships or to no relationships at all. I can understand why many people do not see the ‘Lenny’ relationship as viable and appreciate their wish for it to be terminated or replaced. The characters involved are primarily ‘straight men’ on the show and thus their interactions are not always entertaining. The characters have evolved in ways since the first season that have made their relationship more problematic than it originally seemed. Leonard is no longer the good-hearted nerd that wanted a relationship with Penny. He frequently comes across as whiny and self-centered. Penny is not the same either. The sweet, but simple, girl has become snide and sarcastic. However, the two do seem to genuinely care for one another. Do they really want the other one? Or, do they both continue to long for what the other represents? I don’t know. Leonard seems to want a genuine relationship with someone that cares for him. I do not believe he cares about Penny’s intelligence or achievements. Does this person have to be Penny? In my opinion it does not. Originally, he desperately wanted Penny. She was beautiful and for him represented something that had been unimaginable. Girls like her did not even notice guys like him. Unless it was part of some cruel plot purposed for his pain or humiliation there was no reason for a girl who looked like Penny to even talk to a guy like him. Now, he has learned that he can have relationships with other women, but he still wants Penny. For her part, Penny does seem to specifically want Leonard. He represents a new ideal in relationships for her. He is not just someone she wants for his physical attributes. He doesn’t live the lifestyle that her previous boyfriends and hookups lived. Leonard does not want to ‘score’ with her and move on. He cares for her and is concerned with her happiness. This is not what she is used to. She has had sufficient opportunity post break-up to find someone new. She did not do so. The only man we have seen her with is Zack. And she has stated that she no longer has the ability to enjoy being with stupid guys. Does she have to have Leonard? I don’t think so. But she does has to have someone better than the men of her past simply because she now knows the difference between being used and cared about. My objection to the possibility of a ‘Shenny’ relationship has nothing to do with a desire to see Leonard and Penny together. Sheldon and Penny simply do not work as a romantic pairing. Everything the other needs is what they are not. Despite what some claim, Sheldon has made it very clear that he looks at Penny as simple, or even stupid. He has called her a failure as an actress. (Sheldon: Consider this unlikely but very plausible scenario. A young woman alone in the big city. Her ridiculous dream of becoming an actress lies shattered about her. Then it hits her. How is she going to survive? I mean, she has no prospects, no marketable skills…) Sheldon’s views on Penny’s sexual mores are well known. Right or wrong, it is his belief that she has had at least thirty one sexual partners. He expressed surprise that upon learning that an audition was for a pornographic movie that she didn’t try for the part. He considers her to be a mooch, finds her slovenly, thinks she has shallow interests and that she talks too much. Sheldon dislikes physical human contact and has no interest in a sexual relationship. Two things Penny is all about. Penny thinks Sheldon is crazy. She finds him to be arrogant and condescending. She sees him as childish, spoiled and overly self-important. Her relationship with Sheldon swings from congenial, to adversarial to parental. She mothers him when he is sick and sings him a children’s song for comfort. She provokes him when he’s being ‘Sheldonesque’ and delights in pricking his sensibilities. She finds his OCD characteristics to be amusing or annoying. She cares about him and for him but makes no secret of the fact that she finds him exasperating. She openly questions why Amy (or any other woman) would want him for a boyfriend. She knows he thinks she is stupid and that he sees her dreams as unattainable. For her part, she frequently finds him annoying and tedious. Will the Leonard and Penny work out in the long run? I don’t know any more than any other viewer. I am okay either way. Would a Sheldon and Penny relationship work? Not in any way that I could find believable. Too me that would be the true ‘jump the shark’ moment for TBBT as too much background has been laid to suggest otherwise. But hey, they put Raj in bed with Penny and now nobody seems to remember that…
    1 point
  46. Lucky for you? Seriously? One can only sincerely pity someone whose idea of being lucky is tied to what will happen or won't happen on a TV show. You feel lucky when Leonard gets to sleep with Penny? Mmmmkay. That's a very... how shall I put it... interesting bit of info, LOL. I for one do not have to identify with TV characters to feel lucky or to get my kicks, thank you very much. The writers love Sheldon and Penny's interaction. If the show continues (and with its growing popularity we may get many more seasons), there's no telling who will end with whom. Nothing is set in stone. As for Leonard, it looks like lately the writers do not like him too much, since they are turning him bit by bit into a little creep. One thing is certain - unless Leonard changes, he will cheat on Penny, and Penny will cheat on him. Their future will be bleak and pathetic and boring. Why? Because they are together for all the wrong reasons. There's no spark, there's no love, there's lust from Leonard and a feeling of being a loser from Penny - that's NOT the stuff that long-lasting healthy relationships are made of. I wouldn't mind seeing such a dysfunctional relationship in a different sort of setting, for example a family drama (if only the two actors managed to find that spark, to make it less boring). But in a comedy, Lenny is the weakest part of an otherwise engaging and sparkling show. JMHO, YMMV What I don't get is why there is so much hostility and anger from Lenny shippers towards all those who are critical of Lenny? Riddle me that. Is it FEAR, maybe? Are y'all afraid that if enough people complain about their dissatisfaction with Lenny, the writers will listen? Or is it denial? There were, after all, tons of Shelly moments in both the text and subtext of the show starting with the pilot, and the groundwork for Shelly is there, if the writers ever choose to explore it (doesn't mean they WILL, but it's possible). Why are Lenny shippers so angry at people who prefer Shelly moments instead of Lenny moments in the show? Anger = fear. What are you afraid of? I just don't get the hostility. Lets say you're 100% comfortable in your canon pairing, and there's nothing to fear, and you're absolutely certain that your interpretation of the show is the only right way of looking at things and enjoying the show, and everybody else is wrong, wrong, wrong. Okay, fine. Why so hostile then, LOL? P.S. Btw, that's such a hilarious phrase, "canon pairing", as if you're saying "that's the ultimate law of the land, perish the thought of any other alternatives, canon is LAW, now and forever and ever, and nothing new could ever possibly happen on a fictional show". P.P.S. For those who are so enamoured with the sanctity of canon parings, I have two words for you. Spike. Buffy. Lucky for me because I like the Leonard and Penny relationship and that's the way the show is going. You want Shelly and Penny to be together and it isn't ever going to happen. As for me somehow being attached to them having sex, I will throw that particular sickness back in your court. Just why is it that all through these different threats you keep talking about how cute Sheldon is, how pretty his eyes are, and how much you want him to go to bed with Penny? I think that the most I have ever said about Penny's looks is that she is good looking and frankly I am not sure I said that much. YOU seem to be the one that is invested in Sheldon having sex, just why is that? You feel pity for me because I said that? I really haven't any words that I can put on here that would describe what I think about someone who feels pity because of that Fear because some people criticize Leonard and the writers may change the show? I don't think so. It is pretty transparent that the real problem that people have with Leonard is that he is with Penny and they either want her to be with someone else or they have some fantasy about her being with them. They will criticize him for things and excuse the actions of other characters who do far worse. The writers are not going to change things because of a few peculiar people. As for "Shenny" moments (or did you really mean Shelly), I don't really see what you are talking about. I keep hearing about these "special glances" between Sheldon and Penny and try as I might, I have never seen them. Sheldon has generally been contemptuous of Penny unless he needs her to do something for him. As for her attitude towards him, it has always been more or less that of an adult towards a difficult child. The scene where she brings him back from Disneyland sums up her view of him. As for the hostility, go back an reread the thread. The first hostility came from those attacking Leonard. Just how is that different from those who come back and point out the gigantic flaws in Sheldon? Just a note. From now on it's not Sheldon, it's Shelly, since the he looked so darling in the dress.
    1 point
  47. Selfish, self centered and shallow? And there are people who are Sheldon fanatics who is by far and away the most selfish, self centered, and shallow character on the show. There is no one even close to him. He will do anything and screw over anyone to get his way. As for Leonard's attraction to Penny being shallow and the novelty of sleeping with someone pretty wearing wearing off and Leonard cheating on her, did you miss a portion of the show? You know, the part were for a long while he was sleeping with her? I guess he finally told her that he loved her because the novelty wore off, he was bored with her, and he wanted to break up with her. That must have been his master plan. What a genius. As for Penny and Leonard being tedious, since that was one of the main themes since the show began, Leonard and Penny's attraction to each other, I am surprised you like the show. As for their kids being ugly, dumb, and boring, Where does that come from. You may not think that Leonard is attractive, but he certainly isn't ugly. Are you talking about Penny? Is she where the kids are going to get the stupid part from? Maybe the ugly and boring part comes from Sheldon somehow getting his sperm in the mix. Somehow I could see him gassing Leonard and Penny in the middle of the night and doing some artificial insemination. Go ahead and prefer Shelly. I think that I will stick with Leonard.
    1 point
  48. Penny has more in common with Sheldon the Leonard? Penny has more in common with her vacuum cleaner then with Sheldon. Sheldon is a narcissistic, self centered, egotistical, jerk. He actually believes that he is a more evolved species. Call Leonard immature as though Sheldon isn't? Mr. sing "soft kitty" for me? He can't drive a car and expects everyone to drive him everywhere, eat what he wants to eat, from where he wants to get the food, and eat it on the night that he wants. He won't let anyone sit on his place on the couch. He has kissed one girl in his life besides a close relative, and the thought of actual engaging in sex is abhorrent to him. He has more then once inferred that Penny is a slut. He has also many times told Penny that she was stupid. Penny actually likes Leonard, likes going out with him, and enjoys having sex with him. As a matter of fact, Penny enjoys sex, something that she would not have much of if she was with Sheldon. As for mummy issues, what was the secret weapon that Leonard gave Penny when Sheldon stole her underclothes and hung them outside from the phone lines? The phone number to Sheldon's mommy.
    1 point
  49. please tell me you're kidding. Leonard is not immature--- no more than Penny is. he's not selfish and he's certainly not a sex creep. Penny is NOT bright what-so-ever... which is the point of her character... that's she's dumb blonde amongst 4 geniuses. you must be thinking of another show, lol.
    1 point
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