Itwasdestined

Not against everyone winning. Not against Shamy winning if Lenny don’t. As I said earlier, I like everyone and want them to end happy. Was replying to skulls comment about Sheldon not winning Nobel. I would find his reaction to not winning more INTERESTING than winning to see how the writers would craft that story. But not against him getting Nobel, unrealistic though it may be in such a short time. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Would be interesting if the writers go with Shamy didn’t win the Nobel and Sheldon has an epiphany about how what he has gained over the last 12 years is better than a Nobel. They have gone down the schmaltzy route with him before and he doesn’t really have major wins in his career as much as some think the writers give him everything. He was embarrassed with the Arctic experiment. He failed with his theory presented to Hawking He failed with the element He got nowhere with dark matter The gyroscope didn’t go all the way Yes they could end all that with his ultimate prize of the Nobel OR they could stick to the script of never quite getting there as the scientist but growing as a human because of Lenny and Amy. Who knows where they’re going but I’d find that more interesting than the predictable Nobel glory. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Agree. Howard would have ended up like Raj, with no story to tell, without Bernie. Married longer to Bernie than being Rajs significant other[emoji12] And Sheldon needed someone other than Lenny to feed off and do his thing. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes, worms in can, meet can opener. This may not end well[emoji12] Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Unlike many here, I like ALL the characters. I didn’t start watching from the beginning - the first episode I saw was Recombination. which drew me in through Lenny mainly because they were the focus of the episode but I found the others instantly relatable as well. I quickly binged watched the first 5 seasons ( really quickly!) and grew to love the original 5, flaws and all, enjoying their relationships and the good and bad interactions they had. I can easily suspend disbelief in search of escapist humour so didn’t overanalyse Sheldon’s mistreatment of others, Howard’s creepiness, etc. I just grew to love the show through everyone in it. It’s why I want Season 12 to end positively for everyone, not just my favourites. I won’t begrudge Shamy and the Nobel. I want Raj to be happy. And if Lenny don’t get the idealised ending Lennies want I will still cheer for the happy endings for the others. And if Lenny end up with A happy ending, even if it’s not the one I want for them, I’ll be content. It’s only if they don’t, that I’ll be upset........but I’ll still be hoping for the others. That’s me. I know not everyone’s not thinking that way. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk No, but I don’t think it’s a one man effort. Don’t think 12 seasons of a Sheldon soliloquy would’ve happened either. If you listen to Jim, Johnny and Kaley in that interview they just did, it’s clear to them, the people that matter, how much each of them meant to the show’s longevity. I don’t think it needs to be a competition about who’s the most important. They all are. But that won’t stop fans having favourites different to others. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

And on the cheating argument, as a primary school teacher who for 30 years had worked in an workplace that is 85% female, you guys accusing Sheldon of cheating just because he spent time with Ramona would have seen me as a cheater every time I went out with female friends from work. He didn’t cheat on Amy. He, like me, went out with a female work friend, unaware it was a problem with his girlfriend ( and yes I’ve been swimming with them, danced with them, had dinner with them, karaoked with them, got drunk in a spa with them) , and as soon as Ramona initiated that kiss, he was out of there and off to tell Amy. On the Leonard situation ( and I’m a Leonard man), I actually saw it as a more complicated situation at the time and still do. Up front, I personally never saw it as cheating. If my wife had a drunken kiss with one of her work friends that went nowhere after that, I couldn’t care less. I’d tell the work friend, he’s a bit of an ass for doing it, and to be honest before we got married, we were walking back with some friends to our car after a party and some harmless drunken kissing happened in front of each other. Meant nothing. Went nowhere. Now I agree the writers made this far worse than my story by writing it as a 2 year secret, two years after it happened. No one here for those two years had any inkling that Leonard came back from that boat trip with a guilty secret to keep. He would have told Sheldon. He would have told Penny. The Leonard is a cheater plot is all in hindsight. No one suspected it happened until the writers concocted it two years later. The problem with it though for me is that previous behaviour from Leonard made the KISS believable, but not the NOT TELLING, and certainly NOT CHEATING on Penny. That made so sense. Even as a Leonard fan, I still accept his propensity for succumbing to the will of his libido. He jumped at the chance of Stephanie, despite knowing Howard’s version of the relationship. He jumped at the chance of sleeping with Slutbunny Plimpton, despite her being a respected friend of Sheldon and him being in he next room. He jumped at the chance of a second date with Joy, even though he was not enjoying her personality during the double date with Howardette, once she mentioned he could get lucky. He jumped at the chance of sex with old lady Latham, once she convinced him of her sexual prowess. He jumped at the chance of sneaking around with Priya even though he knew how Raj ( and Howard ) felt. He was extremely tempted by Alice and had a willing makeout with her before thinking better of it. Succumbing to his libido was Leonard’s MO. So, unlike Sheldon’s unfortunate and unwilling liplock with Ramona, you could mount a case that Leonard was at least temporarily enjoying the kiss before his mind took over and he stopped. I don’t accept that argument but based on previous behaviour it’s plausible. However, I don’t accept that possibility of him cheating on Penny any more than Sheldon on Amy. Other than the Mandy kiss, which was a retcon on what we had actually seen 2 years previously, none of these were during his serious relationships with Penny. It’s inconceivable that Lenny would willingly screw up a life with Penny ( even though the writers in hindsight did throw in a hint during the Lenny dinner conversation about the trip when he said he was scared he’d screw up what they had if he went). For me, it wasn’t cheating but I don’t want to have that rehashed argument dominate all over again. Penny accepted it wasn’t and moved on from it and that’s all that matters in real life. Now back to the Season 12 Lenny drama that is really crap. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

They are all terrific friends to each other, despite their exaggerated flaws and occasional ( there have been 268 episodes and 15/12/9 years of relationships to spread it out) bad behaviour. These individual instances of poor treatment of friends are often overblown examples of things that life long friends in real life experience and forgive and forget, with the odd example that may have gone too far e.g. the behind the back girl stuff re Stephanie and Priya and fantasising about friends girls. The humour staple of this show as I think we can all agree is playful ( sometimes hurtful) put downs, jibes and teasing and cutting observations of each others’ lives. We are IMHO way more sensitive about their treatment of each other than they obviously are. Other than a Penny punch to Howard’s face, a ‘Panty piñata’ showdown, an occasional one episode walkout, a swinging handbag, a Carpark fight, a YouTube punch on, a side kick inspired wrestling match, a public spat at a conference panel, a few pranks and name calls and I’m sure a few others I can’t recall, most of their responses to the daily snark are just just dirty looks, eye rolls and shrugs. But amongst all that - and my wife and friends have put up with smartarse comments from me for decades and let it slide - they have done a lot for each other. Lead insulter that he is, Sheldon has financially supported Penny, given her advice she’s appreciated, supported her when Leonard hasn’t been around. He’s saved Raj from deportation and provided company when Raj has needed. He fought for recognition for Howard on the gyroscope project, gave him emotional support when and after his mum died, and set up a fund for Holly. He clearly respects Bernie and was able to give her something the others couldn’t see with that D&D adventure he made for her. Despite putting Leonard down constantly, he has also been a support in many situations and regardless of what we see ON screen, being in constant contact with someone for 15+ years is a real friendship. Main target though she is, Penny has consistently been a support for Sheldon from Season 1, saved Amy from a life of loneliness while also putting up with a lot of crap from her, even when Priya was around, Penny helped out Leonard and gave him lots of support before they got together. She always drops everything she is doing when her friends need her. Leonard, despite his weaknesses, will do anything for everyone. Despite many setbacks, he was always a shoulder to lean on for Penny in the early years and did more than a parent for Sheldon. He’s often seen as the leader of the group. Despite their faults, Amy and Bernie have been great friends to Penny. I don’t think she would have survived season 4 without them. They have also talked up Leonard to her when required ( and yes also put him down ) and Bernie did help Penny grow up by getting her that job. Howard and Raj are harder to pin down other than just being good guys to hang around with that are less hassle than Sheldon but when required they listen and support. Obviously they are great support to each other as well as Bernadette as they have become the secondary friendship group as support to the Lenny/Shamy main act. My point is, we can all find examples of shitty behaviour as friends, but deep down, despite the the edgier Chuck Lorre show humour that makes them appear far from perfect friends, I think they are just as good friends as the 6 from Friends. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Each character’s fans will side with them even in the face of damning evidence - its human nature to do so, which is so evident in today’s political climate ( both sides; not trying to open that can of worms). I’ve criticised and supported all of them over the years depending on how the plot device has portrayed them. My own forum signature points out that I have a bit of all the boys in me, mostly the endearing stuff but also some of the negative, albeit not as amplified as a sitcom requires, so as someone who identifies with their traits ( I also have a Penny, Bernie and Amy in my family as well), I’ll recognise the good and the bad.

You could write the same type of negative article on every one of the characters. They all have some major flaws that are easily exposed through cherry picking from 267 episodes. Thats how the writers operate. They take turns making the characters look bad for the sake of their sense of humour, some more than others but they all get a turn. With that much material you can choose instances to prove both negative and positive positions on all of them. Been happening on this forum for years. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

When I went 2 years ago she looked even better. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Or Zac and Marisa actors aren’t available this week. I don’t know. Clutching at straws I think. Makes no sense in a narrative to drop a bombshell and then ignore it like the characters wouldn’t even acknowledge the decision has or hasn’t been made in a conversation. I know the writers like to not plan too far ahead as they say but Assymetry Nobel plot is getting plenty of continuation. Grr! EDIT:,Thanks kenan for the report! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Will be interesting if the react to Radloffs scathing response. Won’t care about us but maybe her review, whether you agree with her or not, with more public readership than a bunch of sad Lenny shippers, might make them blink as with the wedding redo. Still doesn’t make it right now, though. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I enjoyed watching Lenny deal with the story. 80% of their on screen interactions were adorable. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I’m not supporting either Team Leonard or Team Penny. There is nothing positive in this story to support. It just paints them as a dysfunctional married couple who make decisions that hurt the other but instead of talking the pros and cons out ( well, we don’t see it happen but always hear about the fight through conversations with a third party - here’s a thought; instead of having a scene with Penny or Leonard telling their friends about the fight they had, how about using that screen time to show their discussion.) they both meekly cave just to avoid conflict and real compromised solutions. I don’t see any winners in this one. Man, I need school holidays to finish so I can get back to work and be the rational one amongst the emotional nutcases. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

The boat kiss was a temporary invented insert to add a bit of drama to the start of their marriage and at least was resolved and put to bed in consecutive weeks and in hindsight was followed with 3 seasons to heal the wounds. This adds a sense of certainty to the no kid plot 9 episodes ago ( ridiculous amount of time to let it hang out to dry with no follow up) and then gets put on hold again like it didn’t happen in next week’s episode, other than a quick joke from Bernie at the end that she could get her pregnant. And we know we are approaching end game with no positive outcome in sight. This is moving dangerously into HIMYM territory. I’ve been on and off this forum for nearly 6 years and always had the rep as the rational, calming influence in my heyday here. I’m surprised and embarrassed I’m reacting so emotionally to this. The Lenny story and itwasdestined story were almost mirror images. We even share a wedding anniversary. This no kids thing is really killing this old child lover. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk