Itwasdestined
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Posts posted by Itwasdestined
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From what 3ku11 posted in the Lenny thread
if this interpretation of the preview for the next episode about Leonard questioning his job at Caltech is correct, then the writers have managed to dredge up a past one off conflict to throw in one last spanner in the works for Lenny.
Flashback to the murder mystery episode of S7 when Leonard and Penny differ on who should follow the other and drop their careers spurred on by Rajs future scenario for them. The writer of the article assumes it’s just a given Lenny will finish the show moving out of Pasadena based on Leonard finding a job elsewhere. However, unlike the fanciful dream of actress superstardom Penny thought meant Leonard would drop everything to follow her around the world, Penny now has a real job she is successful at and currently enjoying and proud of.
Enter finale conflict - what if Penny doesn’t want to leave her job and Leonard gets a great job interstate or overseas? WTF writers!?
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If what you say is true, there's no reason for me to watch the sheldon cooper show!!
If you watch for substantial Lenny only, then you’re done. ( Leonard gets one more visit from mommy and Penny reached her peak with the attempted poaching at the convention a few episodes back)
If you watch for cute Lenny moments and tidbits, there’s still a pulse.
If you’re expecting Shamy to step back from centre stage, good luck with that.
If you watch the show for everyone like me, then business as usual with an occasional moan about wtf they’ve done to Lenny and why Amy has dumped her long standing celebrated career in neurobiology to become the poster girl for female physicists in Nobel land!
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Think the writers put an end to it with an exclamation point when Penny hugged her Dad and Leonard. For me that was the end to it. Since then it’s been helping the Shamy from Kitchen Island HQ! The Lenny story is over. Long live Amy the career physicist!
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From Vulture
Should The Big Bang Theory’s Sheldon and Amy Win a Nobel? 7 Physics Laureates Weigh In
The Big Bang Theory, a sitcom about smart people not being able to eat food correctly, will conclude next month after a tremendously successful 12-season run. But if you’ve only tuned in to the final season on a casual basis, you might not even realize it was ending, as the show has generally eschewed big narrative wrap-ups, minus one development: The married theorist team of Sheldon (Jim Parsons) and Amy (Mayim Bialik) are in contention to win a Nobel Prize in physics for their discoveries within super asymmetry. However, a couple of experimental scientist punks (played by Sean Astin and Kal Penn) are trying to claim the Nobel as their own for accidentally proving the concept, and since at present only three people can receive a Nobel for a discovery, only one of the pairs will be able to call themselves winners.
Since Vulture is a pop-culture website and not, uh, a string-theory website, we have absolutely no place offering expertise about which duo should be the rightful recipient of the prize. So we did the only reasonable thing we could think of: Reach out to a bunch of actual Nobel physics laureates and ask for their very legit, very respected, very intelligent opinions on the subject. Knowing our inquiry was all in good fun, seven laureates were nice enough to weigh in on television’s hottest STEM showdown. Here’s what they had to say when it came down to a theorists vs. scientists debate, with some interviews condensed for clarity.
Interesting read. Also interesting that these real physics laureates seem more able to ignore the science reality of super asymmetry more than forum members in discussing this. There was no 100% consensus but quite a few seemed to skew toward the experimentalist over the theorist which adds fire to Shamy missing out. (Also could be why the writers kept Leonard away from experimenting with the theory. Couldn’t let him in on potential success!). Seems these laureates are following the story quite closely.
On a side note, the bit that annoys me most in this story outside all the “its dominating the season, too much Shamy, bad science, blah bkah” complaining is this whole sudden transformation of Amy Farrah Fowler into a world renowned physicist after 7 years of focusing on her celebrated expertise in neurobiology.
Considering this early interaction between neurobiologist Amy and theoretical physicist Sheldon way back in season 4 Zazzy it has never passed the smell test for me this season
“Sheldon: I brought Amy here to show her some of the work I’m doing.
Amy: It’s very impressive, for theoretical work.
Sheldon: Do I detect a hint of condescension?
Amy: I’m sorry, was I being too subtle? I meant compared to the real-world applications of neurobiology, theoretical physics is, what’s the word I’m looking for? Hmm, cute.
Leonard and Howard together: Oooh!
Sheldon: Are you suggesting the work of a neurobiologist like Babinski could ever rise to the significance of a physicist like Clarke-Maxwell or Dirac?
Amy: I’m stating it outright. Babinski eats Dirac for breakfast and defecates Clarke-Maxwell.
Sheldon: You take that back.
Amy: Absolutely not. My colleagues and I are mapping the neurological substrates that subserve global information processing, which is required for all cognitive reasoning, including scientific inquiry, making my research ipso facto prior in the ordo cognoscendi. That means it’s better than his research, and by extension, of course, yours.
Leonard: I’m sorry, I’m-I’m still trying to work on the defecating Clark Maxwell, so…
Sheldon: Excuse me, but a grand unified theory, insofar as it explains everything, will ipso facto explain neurobiology.
Amy: Yes, but if I’m successful, I will be able to map and reproduce your thought processes in deriving a grand unified theory, and therefore, subsume your conclusions under my paradigm.
Sheldon: That’s the rankest psychologism, and was conclusively revealed as hogwash by Gottlob Frege in the 1890s!
Amy: We appear to have reached an impasse.
Sheldon: I agree. I move our relationship terminate immediately.
Amy: Seconded.”
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Contender for Season 2
Leonard: Well, moving is a big deal. You have to go to the supermarket and get boxes, and if they’re not clean, then your books smell like melons, and it’s just, like… Why don’t you just get a roommate and stay here?
Penny: Well, do you know anybody?
Leonard: Well, I’m sure the guy living with Sheldon wouldn’t mind moving in with you.
Penny: Oh, Leonard, honey, if we started living together, I wouldn’t be able to keep my hands off you.
Leonard: Really?
Penny: And you thought my acting lessons were a waste of money.
Financial Permeability- 2.14
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I’m not looking for any spinoffs for any couple. I think all the couples need the others to feed off. Alone there would be something missing in their character. Spinoffs are rare successes. Frasier was an outlier and a complete change of circumstances and a new story to tell( he also wasn’t a main character ). I don’t consider Laverne and Shirley or Mork and Mindy spinoffs of Happy Days - they were briefly appearing characters that had a new story to tell and characters to learn about. Joanie loves Chachi OTOH was an atrocious and unnecessary spinoff of main characters we knew all we needed to know about. Joey was abysmal, AfterMASH worse ( Trapper John MD was completely different take on the MASH character and different actor.
Just not feeling the need for spinoffs. Would rather watch reruns of BBT like I’ve been doing religiously for years. Don’t want the characters legacies ruined by a bad spinoff.
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I like Stuart. He was a terrific recurring character and my recollection is that he became the “8th character” when the writers decided Raj needed a friend when Howard and Bernie got married and we had that weird story arc when Raj and Stuart became pathetic males who couldn’t talk to people and became a weak knockoff of the Howard and Raj S1-3 friendship. Then they gave Raj Emily and he became the annoying tenant/babysitter/Raj fill in/pathetic loser. In all of this he became a sad character which they are only rectifying now with the successful comic book shop/Denise relationship. Sadly he’s been developed more than Raj in some ways.
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Big moment for me too. Travelling all the way from Australia makes it a big deal and getting up at 3 am and clicking refresh on the computer until I got two tickets made it an even bigger triumph. Been to lots of TV shows back home but this was once in a life time opportunity I planned my whole trip around, including the starting time.
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Raj trying to steal Penny again and using Sheldon as a shield?
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I love them all. Over the last 12 seasons, they made laugh, cry, scream, shrug my shoulders, roll my eyes, clap my hands, cheer, shake my fist, squeal with delight, roar in anger, get frustrated, be filled with joy.
I’m a BBT Fanatic first, identify with Lenny next but get compared to Sheldon most by friends and family ( but without his worst extremes as I could not exist in real life if those traits were possible)
I recognise that Raj is very much a douchebag but still laugh at his comic relief role and been saddened by his character stalling often. I cringed at much of Howard’s early efforts but grew to acknowledge that his best moments were truly some of the show’s highlights.
I cheered for the Lenny relationship from the moment it began and drew parallels to my life. Early Penny was eye catching but I grew intrigued with her beyond her looks and rode the roller coaster of her troubled life from start to finish. I sided with Leonard but was still disappointed when he failed to live up to the standards I felt he set.
Sheldon drew me into the show deeply with his quirks that others saw in me and I laughed at them for years, accepting the absurdity of his behaviour as a byproduct of the comedy he delivered. I’ve never grown tired of the character himself, just the overuse of him by the writers to the detriment of others’ development and stories.
As part of both Howardette and “the girls” Bernadette’s humour and feistiness grew on me and her and Howard’s moments were often scene stealers to me. And yet I am saddened by the nasty edge the writers have given her in recent seasons.
Amy has always been a hard one to categorise for me. As an individual she both amuses and infuriates. As part of Shamy I’ve felt the same. But I’ve always enjoyed that she’s part of the show.
Stuart has deserved to be treated better than he has, Wil, Kripke, the parents have been great foils ( not sure we needed Bert!).
On here I’ve complained when I felt it necessary but generally just enjoyed the ride, bumpy though it’s been. I’ve watched bemused generally as the shipping wars have ebbed and flowed. I’ve cringed at the constant rehashed arguments but accepted them as part of being in an online community of varied backgrounds, biases, maturities and writing skills. But I’ve always been amazed at the passion and knowledge, the humour and serious intent inherent in the discussions that take place.
As the show draws to the end I live in genuine hope that everyone here gets something at the end that brings them some joy because it truly saddens me when this place descends into a gloom and doom zone. The show has given us a lot. Sometimes we forget that when we hit a wall. Here’s to hope.
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Anyone can give examples of every character being a good and bad friend. It only takes 5 minutes of thinking either way, depending on who you like or dislike. They’re friends whose bad behaviour is amplified coz that’s what a lot of sitcoms do. Don’t get the need to rehash this whataboutism stuff over and over but then........online forums - what else is there to do?!
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Reveals the depth of questioning that occurs at these things that Penny’s surname is still considered worth discussing
Geez it would be fun to organise a BBTForumCon panel online and have the writers get the chance to be grilled with real deep questions by us rather than the cliched, well worn, safe, predictable drivel that most of these Con Panels deliver.
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I hope Howard gets an answer, because I can totally emphasize with him. Here's why: my Dad left when I was an infant in the 70s, never be heard from again; no child support was awarded either. Mom changed my last name from his to her maiden name when I was 4. I never even got so much as a card from him growing up.
Fast forward to 2001. I Googled my Dad and found his address. My plan was to drive up there, pound on his door, and demand an answer so that I could close that chapter of my life before I got married the next year. I chickened out and 2 years later he died.
When I contacted his church, I found out that no one (not even his widow) knew he had a child. I did have a phone conversation with the widow prior to the Memorial Service, which I attended with my Mom and Husband. She wasn't very kind to me on the phone, but she did give me the medical information I needed. After the service, she walked up to me (I had not introduced myself before the Service, I just sat in the back being as inconspicuous as possible) and said "Are you Carmen? If so, I am so sorry for what I said to you on the phone". I do resemble my Dad, and got some stares during the Service. I never spoke to her again, nor did I contest the Estate. I figured I managed (albeit in a struggling manner) without his help during his life, I could manage without it after his death. Furthermore, I felt like the widow had already received a punch in the gut finding out about me, why punish her for something he did?
My Mom passed in 2010, and I have discovered some things about their marriage I didn't know. My greatest regret in life is that I didn't get the answers from the them about everything before they passed. I sobbed during the episode about the letter from Howard's Dad because it hit so close to home. I hope Howard gets his answers, even if he doesn't realize he needs them.
We talk a lot about how we have personal connections to this show and characters ( my marriage is Lenny, I’m part Sheldon part Leonard in general life and my mother relationship is part Howard) but not so much about the tragic parts. I feel for you, Carmen. That episode touched me but watching it in your situation must have been tough. Thanks for sharing a little part of your world.
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What a load of garbage that was. Full of twisted half truths, misleading BS, outright factual errors and distorted timelines. And they couldn’t even get the screenrant.com spellchecker to fix 12. you’ve got a FrEInd in me. Embarrassing drivel that is an insult to one of the great and lasting legacies of the show. Just not needed.
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Penny wore that or something similar in Bernie’s office earlier in the season or last and got the same response from this forum.
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Edit: it was in the Tam Turbulence 12.04
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The whole thing got messed up when they wrote in two pregnancies for Melissa. I really think that's where the pregnancy problems for Lenny started. They'd done two kids for Howardette and didn't want to do anymore. Feel free to disagree but I still think Howardette's kids sank Lenny kids.
And yet......Shamy?
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I think she thought she loved him early on but she KNEW it when that hologram of Earth popped up and he started talking science in Holographic Excitation. It was the moment it finally hit her and Kaley showed it so well. Despite the poor writing and snarky jokes that plagued them, I don’t think she ever expressed doubt from that moment on.
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Ah. I'll have to look into that. I like Melissa, too.
Melissa was Harley in Batman and Harley Quinn, a DC animated movie. Kale is Harley in the new Harley Quinn animated TV Series
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This forum wouldn’t exist without the endless speculation on things yet unseen
And there’s a difference between critiquing and criticising. I outlined my reasons. I don’t think I was negative about it. And as I said, im not gonna worry over it. If it happens, sobeit. I like Shamy. Just think its overkill if,when writers continually refer to not wanting any more babies, they introduce a Shamy baby plot. But yes it is an IF and may not happen in the show.
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I’m not gonna lose sleep over it or complaining incessantly but I just find it overkill ( not that either is confirmed yet ) to have Shamy ending with BOTH the Nobel AND the baby IN THE SHOW.
And my feelings just go back the beginning of each character’s journey in the show. It’s got nothing to do with Ship Jealousy cos that’s just not me.
I look at it this way.
The 5 principal characters from day one
Sheldon ( the original recipe) - it was all about winning a Nobel or being an incredibly successful scientist with all the accolades. To be fair the polarising guy, he’s been pulled through the ringer from go to whoa on this front. The monopole experiment that he thought was a winner found to be a hoax caused by his buddies, the new element that was much celebrated briefly before being found out as a fluke and not legit, losing hope in string theory then not getting anywhere with dark matter, the Shelnard paper and gyroscope that got killed of by military..... and now his last chance with the Super asymmetry in the balance with the two other physicists....... Fake science or not, I don’t begrudge him finally achieving his Nobel goal to complete his scientist journey on the show.
Leonard - from day one he wanted Penny and with some misfires and restarts he got her. Mission accomplished there for that part of his journey that was arrived at a long time ago ( contributing factor to him being downgraded in recent scenes - his main journey ended 4 years ago). Now his other goal was probably to be respected in his field. Despite the constant belittling by his buddy, he’s had small wins but they too have been cut short. That part of his journey is unfinished and doesn’t seem to be in the writers’ minds unless something happens out of the blue. I guess his other part of the journey is gaining the respect of Beverly. There’s been tiny wins there last couple of years, wondering if that will be achieved with Beranski saying she’s in the finale. Controversially I’m not counting smart and beautiful babies as a series long goal. It might have been day one and a few passing references but it wasn’t massive IMHO.
Penny - came to LA for a successful career - in acting. Ends with a successful career - in sales and marketing ( sort of acting
). Count that as a win. Others won’t.
Wanted a man that would finally treat her well. Got him in Leonard ( ignoring boat kiss BS and the odd bad episode). Journey two complete. We might see her as an underdeveloped character even after 12 years but in the writers mind when they talk about giving each character a happy ending for their journey, they’re going to justify Penny as a success.
Howard - at the start, he just wanted to “get laid” then loved. He got his girl early and it kept getting better. He also wanted kids before his marriage and got them. He wanted to be successful in his job. He got his work on the space station and went there as an astronaut on top of working for Hawking. Despite it ending badly, his gyroscope project was just a bonus add on to his journey completed. Like Leonard he reached his goal so early in the twelve years the writers started to mess around with him by reverting him back to a man child dominated by the woman in his life, Mrs W replaced by Bernie. Deserved better; one of my favourites.
Raj - just a shambles. Failed. Gone backwards. From leading astrophysicist to planetarium presenter. Destroys every relationship he’s in, never learning. Sad cos I find him funny as comic relief but it’s all he’s ever been.
THE LATER ARRIVALS
Bernie was driven from the start to be a success in her field and has been for a long time. Didn’t see enough early on but plenty in recent series. Linked to Howard from start, fell in love and despite hiatus got her man. Her journey has ended well although that whole baby thing went against her plans
Amy - started as a female Sheldon clone totally about the science of biology. We got to see her do a lot of her science over the years and she was celebrated. Strange that the biology was suddenly cut off and she suddenly becomes obsessed with physics with Sheldon. Find that a weird end to her science journey.
Then her emotional journey. Didn’t take too long for the robot to yearn for being a real girl. That’s been a long journey and she got her girlfriends and her boyfriend/husband. I feel that was the journey and enough. She got there.
Which is why the sudden episode of Amy manipulating Sheldon into liking kids, considering the writers constantly downplaying more kid stories, just seems like an unnecessary optional extra to the Shamy journey. Sure they have had the odd discussion about kids and yes unlike Lenny agree on having them but when I look at as part of their total journey I just don’t see it as a big enough part of it over the total run of the series that it’s so important that Amy is pregnant by the end. Knowing it will happen should be enough. Let’s focus on the science part - for me that is more important since that was what was most important to both Sheldon and Amy at the start. Leave enough space in the remaining episodes for others to shine instead of adding babies when the Nobel story has dominated so much already and isn’t over.
Doctorate submission in Big Bang Character Study ends here.
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If they wanted to portray the story of its OK not have babies, they could just as easily used Shamy to tell that story. But the Young Sheldon writers forced Shamy babies into the future through their bombshell reveal. Those arguing that Sheldon has for a long time wanted babies because of several statements he made over years ignore his long held disdain for them ( including even last weeks episode) Even from the first mention in the early Shamy story in season 4, it was only about maintaining his genetic pool, ( the reason for the sperm bank visit in the pilot ) not for any love of children. Saying Sheldon wants kids ( so should get them) is a disservice to Leonard’s same dream for better reasons. The whole role model for childless couples angle is just BS. They just want to add drama to the Lenny story.
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The reruns in Oz are up to Season 8-9 ATM and I’ve watched quite a few and probably laughed more than I remember. For me, but I’m sure not for everyone, I find time separation from the live angst of a current season when they are screwing up Lenny allows me to get over it and enjoy episodes in a different way. I even watched the stupid boat kiss arc the other day BY CHOICE and didn’t whinge. That’s why Season 12 for me is the worst because it’s the only season this usually calm, unfussed Lenny lover has actually vented on a regular basis. The no kids thing has really p$&&ed me off big time. But time will heal and 3 years from now I’ll flick on one of the 3 channels showing reruns and I’ll watch ep 1203 without throwing a shoe at the TV!
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I find it sad that so much time is spent discussing such a serious issue as leaving someone because you want kids and they don’t and the crushing pressure brought on by this conflict on a much loved couple on a sitcom fan forum. Where did the laughter go?
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But Sheldon wants kids. It's been stated many times before.
Well then the question “Why?” needs to be clearly answered just as much “Why not?” with Penny. I’m happy if both are answered by the end.
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[Spoilers] Season 12 Dark Lenny Thread
in Season 12
Posted
I’ll be glad if THEY move too. It’s a great finale for them if they choose freedom from solving all of Shamy’s problems. I just don’t feel comfortable about potential conflict they throw in because that’s what they write for Lenny stories. Penny decides no kids, Leonard decides job elsewhere, Both without consultation.
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