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Itwasdestined

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Everything posted by Itwasdestined

  1. I think this living arrangement thing is becoming a circular argument across multiple threads where it is brought up with the theme being phantagrae vs the rest on the fairness of Leonard suggesting the switch vs Lenny should get their happiness and bad luck Sheldon vs opinions on how lease agreements work. I think everything has been said about it multiple times. For me it was a finale driven suggestion among others and we should just wait to see how it's played out. I do agree with phantagrae on the last point, though. Lenny don't hate Sheldon and whatever happens will need to be a mutual decision in the interest of both parties. The relationship the three have, despite all the sitcom inspired problems, is essentially strong and won't be wrecked by an attempted coup to claim land rights in absentia.
  2. Great post, phantagrae. Agree with a lot of what you say, particularly this final part. It's a sore spot for many on this forum - don't mention "it's a sitcom", "the writers are ruining Shamy" - but it is probably on the money that while we write Ph.D theses analyzing the characters and have 50 page arguments about how badly treated Amy, Leonard, Penny etcetera are by the writers' inconsistencies, TPTB are simply working out where to put the next joke in to break the tension of a dramatic scene. But it wouldn't be a fan forum without the angst over this reality.
  3. I think it's a bit of a myth that TPTB ignore their cliffhangers, based mainly on Leonard's ignored Hawking trip this season. Season 1 cliffhanger - first date followed by end of date In ep 1 s2 and the issues it caused were major part of season season 2 cliffhanger - I don't want you to go followed by Lenny 1.0 becoming reality. Season 3 cliff hanger - Amy introduced followed by Shamy first date and the building of relationship throughout s4 and beyond Season 4 cliff hanger - the Raj/Penny fiasco followed by the same moment and its immediate repercussions ( and Raj revisits it in Ep 1 s 6) - it was the weakest of the cliff hangers but still dealt with. season 5 cliff hanger - Howard goes to space followed by 3 eps about him in space and follow ups about when he is back + Lenny's doubts at nf of s5 addressed in the first 5 eps in s6. Anyway back to the question at hand. They can't NOT make Sheldon's change crisis the focus of early season 8. It was THE FOCUS of the last 8 episodes, not just the finale. It will be the main story arc along with Lenny engagement for foreseeable future. The issue is who or what he will be thinking about while on the road. I want to see him in touch with Amy and reflecting on her when he is alone in his little red caboose. Maybe he does visit Missy and had a heart to heart ( and as much as many have focused on the man child lately, late Season Sheldon had many heartfelt talks with Howard, Mom, Leonard, Proton, Penny - not as much with Amy as he should have ) about his feelings for his girlfriend. But as much as Shamies probably want it to be all about Amy because they didn't get the finale they were dreaming of, Sheldon's most pressing issues to address are his career and how his living arrangements are going to change because of Lennys engagement. In his own mind, rightly or wrongly,he probably doesn't think there is an issue with Amy to be worrying about. On the other hand, he can't come home without working out his String theory demons and dealing with Leonard and Penny's ideas about where to live together. Thinking back to the Bazinga ball pit episode, his idea of getting a menial job to help him think better may lead to him working on the train which leads him to make some kind of string theory breakthrough thus rekindling his desire? Probably not. Maybe his train travels accidentally meets him up with other scientists with issues and group therapy causes him to refocus. If he's available, maybe Obi wan Proton talks him through his career crisis. On the living arrangements front, maybe the time alone on the trains convinces Sheldon he can survive living alone AND look after himself. He might have mishaps that Penny, Leonard - and Amy - have in the past saved him from but he is forced to deal with himself. When he returns, he has to address career and Lenny first. Then Shamy can be dealt with for the rest of season ( not that they can't have relationship discussions during this time) - but the must dos have to be addressed first. Of course what do I know? But the issues of the finale arc WILL NOT be ignored.
  4. I didn't say I was optimistic. I was more going for the best case scenario on Sheldon coming back as a changed man who can accept the Lenny engagement for what it is. Early series Penny often took on Sheldon and won so I can't see why that Penny can't return with the support of a new improved with backbone Leonard. I think we can fit in some wins for the happy couple and knock Sheldon down a peg or two, maybe with a not as desperate Amy throwing her weight behind them (without throwing in the living together plea). Of course, since I have listed an extensive list of "can't catch a break" moments for Leonard and Penny earlier in this thread, alone time could be inconsistent at best. But maybe a well delivered "Get out" from Penny ( a la the controversial "Amy attack" in the finale) might do the trick in the new paradigm shift that is to follow the return from the train trip. Who knows, maybe the table will come back! I'm still considering Lenny creating an alternative Room mate or " 4th Floor" agreement while Sheldon is away which can be used to negotiate for joint custody and use of BOTH apartments ( the unlikely third alternative that hasn't come up in conversation). In a way the three of them (mainly Lenny but Sheldon has spent a surprising amount of time in Penny's apartment over the years) live on the whole 4th floor not just separate apartments.
  5. I don't want separation from Sheldon at all. I just want them to have alone time without him butting in. I'm happy for Sheldon to maintain his quirks and character as it's part of the humour of the show. What I want is the Lenny we saw in the last few episodes who instead of letting Sheldon run over them and get snarky with each other will attack back. Much comedy can come from supportive team Lenny vs Sheldon the no longer unstoppable. Room mate agreement - a whole episode dismantling it - he can't hold anything over them like he did with Priya. The spot - it's ours on alone time nights , like it or lump it. go visit your girlfriend or work on String theory and don't come back. Get your own bloody special mustard. Guess what - now that Penny has a job in the remake, Babylon 5 is on the watch list. You're learning to drive - you're not interrupting our spaghetti cooking classes because you need to change your Walking Dead pillowcases. And the rest of the humour between Leonard and Penny themsleves can stay cute and intelligent like in the finale arc. Sure some challenges can arise for conflicts sake - engagements and marriages are not real without them but they don't have to have that disrespectful snarkiness we got in the middle of Season 7. They've been funnier since the relationship has been secured.
  6. I've only been contributing to this forum for a month but have lurked for most of the year and have been amazed at the connections people have with the characters of this show. I only really started watching the show mid last year but quickly became addicted and now constantly watch episodes over and over. So I can completely understand how emotional you can get about their favourite ships ( although to be honest I didn't even know what shipping meant until I came here) I've really appreciated the quality of your commentary koops while lurking and completely agree and understand where you are coming from. While I probably have a soft spot for Lenny I'm not a shipper but I really admire koops how you stay consistently on message that your issue is with the writing inconsistencies. And while these writers are obviously very successful, I've had my issues with them even though I have continued to laugh consistently at most episodes without getting as emotional as many here because I'm not 'shipper inclined'. Amy has changed for the worse from the earlier version and I would hope that season 8 can return her to her former glory. And she's not alone in getting a negative personality change by the writers. For much of season 6 and early 7 Penny became a complete ditz but at least she has been given her street smarts and maturity back lately. Raj was written as a pathetic loser for too long as well. Hopefully Amy and Sheldon can get back to counter factuals and fun with flags or Amy challenging his opinions as an intellectual equal . As Tensor said the writers have tended to muck around with couples then fixed them and hopefully Shamy will get a decent reboot and the writers get them right. Koops you probably get your point of view across more articulately than some Shamy shippers and I suppose that may be why some critics have gone hard at the general vibe of the Shamy/Amy protest. I have no beef with the concept and Michy is another whose posts I have generally enjoyed reading as well. I suppose some of the hashtags IMHO don't really convey a positive message and focus on one moment that offended rather than the more general dissatisfaction with the direction of the writing that koops consistently refers to. #whataboutamy and #wherewasamysgoodbye are examples for me that are just a complaint about the finale that I believe have been overdone whereas others are more aligned to koops broader issue. While I don't necessarily agree with all Shamy complaints, I can at least see where you're all coming from. I'm with Tensor though in saying the Lenny shippers have had the traumas of the season 3 breakup, the uncertainty of 5 and early six and survived it through to a happy ending ( at the moment ) A bit more patience in your ships journey wouldn't go astray. But as koops has said, it's a bit hard when the journey's direction changes from one episode to the next. My opinion as a non shipper may not count for much but all I can say is hang in there and hope that Sheldon ( and the writers ) come back as changed men and Amy can rediscover the quirks you guys fell in love with.
  7. My daughter came up with a rather odd idea today. Since they are registered celebrants ( they married Howard and Bernadette), they marry themselves,on the couch, since everything about these two is low key and accidental. " so Does that mean we're married? yeah I think so!" LOL. Keeps Sheldon, Beverly, Penny's mom, out of the picture! But Wyatt can still turn up on the downlow to give away the bride - he has to be there!
  8. Leonard and Penny are rock solid - there is no way they are breaking up regardless of what challenges befall them. They may have little spats and issues like Howard and Bernie did - the baby issue, the repercussions of the bachelor party reveals - but Howardette hadn't spent 7 years together like Lenny have. I don't mind job decisions (Penny better get some acting gigs next season - I've said that enough times in my short stay in this forum - and is the tenure issue going to be like the Hawking trip or will it return as a issue) causing friction between them and a few family issues- Nebraska vs Beverly and Mr Hofstadter. From the finale build up, Lenny better not be stuck dealing with Sheldon 24/7 still. He needs to learn from his trip and they deserve freedom to learn what being together permanently, going to bed every night and waking up every morning without avoiding day to day issues means. I'm wanting wedding finale in Season 8 - I think that is long enough to wait. Penny's brother can be out on good behaviour by then. This allows time for Season 9 to be marriage humour and Season 10 ( if it is the final season) to end with the 'smart and beautiful babies' that were destined from the pilot episode. Stuart gets close to "Debbie" and she bankrolls his Comic Book Store rebuild The Sheldon that talked rationally to Howard in late S7, helps Penny, respects Leonard's friendship, had fun with Flags, D&D and Counter-factuals with Amy, worked with Raj, was a font of useless knowledge about everything - except Radiohead( yeah he hasn't always been an A-hole and was still funny when he wasn't) and made some great contributions to science returns from his journey and everyone wins. He can rekindle his relationship with Amy by enjoying himself with her again, still be a smartass picking up on everyone's faults and showcasing his genius, take pot shots at Penny,Leonard and Howard but they take shots back adding to the comedy instead of it all falling to him. As with Sheldon, Amy starts enjoying herself again with and without Sheldon. Maybe take in a Neil Diamond concert with Howard, bring out the tiara for a special occasion (maybe organise a prom night themed party for those who missed out when they were dateless nerds). Possibly have a Shamy 2.0 Beta test - yeah I know its not original and doesn't have to be the same as Lenny 2.0. They don't have to break up because they didn't get to the same emotional level as Leonard and Penny did. Maybe they just decide to rekindle the intellectual friendship and be friends WITHOUT benefits - without Amy's pressure to be a 'normal' boyfriend/girlfriend pairing until Sheldon realises its what he really wants. Not sure what to do with Bernie and Howie - not sure I want a baby yet even though the discussion started in the finale arc. Maybe they can bring back the science into the show through their careers instead of just being the happyish married couple that solve every issue within the episode. She creates a big cure for a big disease? He makes a major engineering breakthrough? Bernie vs Amy for the maid of honour role in Penny's wedding maybe? Raj's future depends on Laura Spencer's availability as Emily with her other gig on Bones an issue. Hope some stability in love can encourage Raj to get back to doing something meaningful in astrophysics. What happened to People Magazine's 30 people under 30 star? In seven years he really hasn't done much at Caltech other than eat lunch with the boys every episode they are there. Can become a rival to Neil DeGrasse Tyson (he's been on the show already and is a bit of a media whore so could be up for it). Emily could rekindle that short relationship she had with Amy when she was first introduced, which either brings her into "Sheldon Cooper's Council of Ladies!" or starts rivalry between Emily and Amy's old besties. Probably none of this happens but we are talking theories. And it certainly won't be about Sheldon and Penny dumping Amy and Leonard for each other!
  9. And the tone of her voice was neither angry nor nasty as some have taken it. It was just a firm statement in a firm tone she has used before with Amy. The least important issue of the episode IMO.
  10. Sheldon's departure is a FAR MORE SIGNIFICANT event than Leonard's. I'm not even sure why TPTB wrote it into the plot other than providing a means for Sheldon to bond with Penny which, with the way the season has developed and ended, seemed to be important to the writers (not so much the Shamy fans) . Leonard and Penny were pretty secure at this point so it wasn't really a test for them and the writers tend not to put too much significance on Leonard's career achievements.. Sheldon and Amy, on the other hand, have some major work to do on their relationship with how the writers have messed with it so I just don't see them sweeping this under the carpet like Leonard's trip. Whether they make it more about Sheldon or Sheldon AND Amy ( and I hope for the latter) is the question. But it has to be a significant plot for at least the early episodes.
  11. Yeah not sure junior rodeo would work on Beverly! And she can't call Bev's mom to finish the war off like the battle against Sheldon in Piñata. Of course, she does know alcohol is Beverly's kryptonite so.......... maybe she has a shot with that. True but he has broken into their bedrooms several times while they were in bed.
  12. Catch a break? First date - Howard and Raj upset the goodnight kiss with their spy camera Return from North Pole kiss - Sheldon meltdown and runs away Sheldon working with Raj - Howard interrupts them on the couch and doesn't get the hint Valentines Day in Switzerland - Sheldon begs and begs and Penny relents ( after getting sick ) Love Car hotel sex - Raj interrupts them Makeout on the couch in the blackout - Sheldon imposes yet again Ay Papi possible makeout - Sheldon imposes yet again with Amy problem Valentine's Day dinner - ex boyfriend proposes to ex girlfriend in same restaurant (although this did lead to something good but still...) First Dinner Party - Howard has the Father letter meltdown and everyone leaves to go cheer him up ( again finishes OK eventually) Leonard farewell - Sheldon pain in the backside in the backseat Leonard return - Sheldon meltdown AGAIN Valentines Day (Locomotion episode) - night alone stuffed up by Cinnamon eating the chocolate (even the animal cast members interrupt them!) Engagement announcement - Raj steals limelight with Emily sex announcement And finally the newly engaged romantic dinner interrupted by Amy which they are getting all this grief for Catch a break - I'm amazed they ever got around to having sex in this show with all the interruptions from their friends and their problems !!
  13. Serial Apeist 2 needs to be released, become a geek favourite, Penny ends up on a Comic Con panel, the boys get to ask her questions, gives her exposure and leads to more roles in similar schlock which Penny embraces as she moves closer to the dark side that is the world of Leonard, Sheldon, Howard and Raj. No more embarrassment at knowing what they are talking about because she is part of it. And Howard gets that 3D printer back and makes a Penny Serial Apeist action figure for Leonard! Yeah?!? Nah?!? Dunno!
  14. So the Penny that fangirled Amy all the way through the psychic scene, rang her up during the Table Polarization to warn her about Sheldon's breakup plan, gave him advice more than once at the Cheesecake Factory bar to patch up problems with her, basically started their romance by chaperoning them on their first date (and copping an awful lot of grief in the process from both of them ), eventually allowed that ridiculous painting of the two besties to hang in her home and took Sheldon to the jewellery store to eventually get that tiara of hers......this is the Penny that is not a good friend to Amy? Sometimes we isolate that one most recent negative moment and forget about all those positive ones that don't support our argument.
  15. Loved that too. They came in as two separate individuals concerned for their child, the need for change was confirmed, and then they left as one, holding hands symbolising it was their turn to be the centre of attention together without Sheldon. Will the freedom from Sheldon last past early season 8?...........mmmmmm?! That's my number one hope in season 8. Don't start it all over again that she is a failure and she gives up hope of being anything other than Leonard's wife. She can act, give her a steady job so we see her do more than improve her spaghetti cooking and drinking wine with the girls around the breakfast bar talking wedding plans. Her acting career provides lots of plot lines. Nothing to do Penny doesn't.
  16. No I think people just forget she was having her first experience of paralytic drunkenness when she called her " my home girl " and told Her son off for treating Penny bad. Not sure Bev gets along with many "pretty well" - she is the female Sheldon of the show. It was nice though that she reported that Sheldon had nothing but nice things to say about Penny - he has his nice moments, people. Of course that was before he was made to understand Mummy and Daddy didn't want to live with him anymore!
  17. But then the last 5 pages of this thread wouldn't have happened
  18. From the moment of the botched drunken proposal and the repercussions of the decisions made, I personally think the writers made a conscious decision to refocus all attention on the central relationship of the show - Sheldon, Leonard and Penny - with the other characters getting important but temporary story lines to fit in with their story. This finale was really the tipping point of that three way relationship and a fitting ending to how it is probably going to be forever changed, much to Sheldon's disgust. Sheldon's in character reaction of their living arrangements started in episode 13 when he weighed in on Lenny's argument, with him thinking it was all about the future of the three of them together - are you ever going to get married and if so where are WE going to live. The Table was all about a power struggle between the 3 of them over who has control of the apartment and who has greater influence over Leonard. Sheldon won the first but Penny showed his influence over Leonard was weakening. While the Shamy kiss was a massive moment (which I loved) in Locomotion for the Shamy ship which probably really built up their hopes for a massive Shamy finale that sadly didn't eventuate, there was a subtle important subplot for Penny and Leonard in them choosing just to have alone time, which became more and more prevalent in these last three episodes as they solidified their relationship as Sheldon got less one to one time with his long time friends. During this time the writers started building Sheldon's relationships with Howard and Raj and his boyfriend feelings for Amy continued to grow, a change that he both embraced and resisted. To me this was to build up alternatives to the central dependency he has had on Lenny from the beginning of the show. As Penny and Leonard's inevitable path to engagement/marriage continued to build, there was going to be massive repercussions for Sheldon's homeostasis, which as far back as ep 2 season 6, he wanted maintained as Penny and Leonard together for him, first and foremost. It is at this late point in the current season where the writers start being 'cruel' to Sheldon by strengthening his relationship with Lenny only to tear it down at the end. Suddenly there are more Sheldon/Penny/Leonard and Shenny ( dreaded for some) scenes as the importance of these relationships are built up at the expense of the Shamy one. The psychic scene, the haircut, the early morning Shenny chat, Sheldon suddenly taking Penny's advice seriously, the Shelnard hugs, the increased concern Leonard starts feeling for his "buddy" when for much of Season 7 and a lot of 6 there was a lot of disdain and angst, all of these focused on the relationship of the big three, all of which was going to be shattered by the inevitable marriage of Penny. and Leonard. Which in a very long winded way brings us to the final episode. Yes, massive changes were gradually building up that was eating away at our "I can't handle change " Sheldon. Mum sex, string theory doubt, comic book store burning, not getting his way at the university, Protons death, and of course, very importantly, his increasing romantic "sex on my mind whether I realise it or not" relationship with Amy all had varying degrees of effect on his final breakdown in the season finale. But far outweighing this, in my opinion, is the change in his life caused by Leonard and Penny getting engaged and planning to live without Sheldon. While hugs and smiles came from everywhere else when they announced their engagement to the group, Sheldon was almost stony faced and approached neither of them before Rajs interruption. And look at how strangely excited he was with Rajs news in comparison. The discussion with Leonard shows how implausible his opinion of how he fits in their married life and includes a meltdown far worse and more sustained than the one he had with Amy. Even the discussion with Amy is heavily focused on his disgust with Leonard and penny's engagements effect on his life. His fight with Amy is part sarcasm, albeit cruel in a way - with Leonard it's pure anger and absolute disbelief. His final words to Amy are directed at her but 50% of it is about Leonard ( and indirectly Penny). Which leads us to the final chapter of the great change in the Lenny/Sheldon relationship - the train station. Sheldon in his own words is overwhelmed and needs time to consider this massive change. I find it interesting that Leonard and particularlyPenny always used the word "We" in this conversation. "we were worried about you" we need to let him go" They show great concern and love for him, Leonard in particular, but penny also in her familiar Sheldon's surrogate mother role. But this I where the change is happening. They can't be his mum and dad anymore - Leonard tries one last time with the Legoland promise, echoing the Disneyland trip and robot deal in season 3. It's their turn to focus on each other now, not him. And this I what Sheldon has to go away and figure out. He has to move out of mum and dad's house, get out on his own and grow up. A final little nuance I picked up in this scene that drives this home is how Penny and Leonard arrive at the station and how they leave. The come into the station as two individuals looking for their lost child. Significantly for this over analytical viewer, they leave holding hands, representing the change in the relationship. It's not Sheldon and Lenny as weird little family, it's Lenny joined as one, starting a new life together without Sheldon, with of course Sheldon still not getting it with his "of course you will" a miss me line. So for me, it really was all about the big 3. Shamy is still on track. Their phone conversation ends with "I'll talk to you tomorrow" and Amy acknowledging he sounds fine. They're still talking and he's still thinking about her. Obviously I'm expressing a very different take on this than some here and many will vehemently disagree with my thesis. For me, the pillow bashing of Leonard is Amy expressing her frustration of being without Sheldon. She obviously misses being with him and is having difficultly dealing with that. She doesn't know how long he will be away and that is weighing on her because she is used to having him in her life and fears being alone in the meantime because her bestie is probably going to be more preoccupied with her own life than in the past. I'm not going to weigh in on the debate about whether Lenny let Amy down or whether she deserved a farewell from Sheldon. I'll only be repeating what others have already said. But I do think and hope that the Shamy relationship can grow in season 8 because the bond between Sheldon, Leonard and Penny has been necessarily weakened so that the Shamy Bond can be strengthened as a consequence. Whew!, that was probably too much waffle about an idea that didn't even come to me until I watched this episode.....and I didn't even get to mention how happy I am for Raj and how good Stuart was.
  19. Disillusioned Shamies on the internet represent about 0.0005% of the total viewers of TBBT. While some get reactions from Bill Prady on Twitter and could make writers squirm at Comic Con with angry questions, I doubt they will alter their plans much, trending hashtags or not.
  20. Not a Shamy shipper - but do love the characters and feel for both. I just wanted to say you guys owe it to your devotion to this ship to at least watch how it pans out in reality on screen rather than just continue reacting to taping report interpretations and facts and avoid it.. Loving Jim and Mayim so much, I think you should at least watch how they it act it out. FWIW I read the reports and was not happy with the way it ends for Shamy either but a lot of taping report moments have ended up better than first thoughts. I hope it's OK for a non shipper to weigh in here. Good luck dealing with the hiatus.
  21. I know it's not going to happen but I was kinda hoping not to read 30 pages of the same angst and dismay I read in the spoiler threads 2-3 weeks ago when the taping report came out for this episode. But I doubt it - I guess there's a whole new unspoiled audience to talk to. Please don't hate me!( can't think of suitable emoticon to follow!) (I hope this doesn't count as a spoiler - delete if it does. )
  22. I so want this to happen! Raj is much funnier and adds to the show when he is not the sad desperate Raj we have had since even Sheldon Cooper got a girlfriend! When Raj said he was going to say yes to everything that changed him in a positive way, thanks to Emily being who she has been so far. It brings freshness to a show and viewers who aren't in the obsessive Shamy and Lenny ships. I read recently an interview with Molaro who said he definitely wanted Emily back in season 8 but there is an issue with the actress ( can't remember her name ATM - gone blank!) being cast in new season of Bones. Battle on to get her available for both shows!
  23. When you use Sheldon's factor of 10000 error in the element episode as a practical example of checking calculations with your genius maths class in Grade 6. When you use Sheldon's Bazinga ball pit, vegetable and broken plate and food experiences to justify why it's important for even the smart kids in Maths class to use visual cues to problem solve When your only option for your daughters fictional character 18th birthday party is to go out and buy a cheap red t shirt, skivvy and make an iron on transfer Flash insignia so you can come as Sheldon Cooper. When you yell at your family at dinner time to "please pass the butter!" When your wife finds a copy of the lyrics to a song in her synced notes on her iPhone and asks "Who's Bernadette and why are you writing a song about her?" When you are doing wet day yard duty at school, find a group of Grade 5 kids plays rock scissors paper and spend the whole duty teaching them the lizard Spock combinations.
  24. The last thing Sheldon needs is having someone take his side in this. Not that his mother has ever taken his side in any battles anyways ( Piñata, Can Opener, Luminous Fish - she tends to be on Lenny's side). He needs to be told he is wrong or he'll come back and try to upset Ma and Pa Lenny's wedding plans or give Amy the same grief as before. Of course Ra's al Ghul in the Himalayas? That's a different story. Probably don't want that influence either. Things may not end well
  25. Meh. I've had worse attacks from angry 12 year olds in detention classes I'm not offended. All's fair in love and war in the world of forums. You give it, you take. As long as there is a point behind it.
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