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Itwasdestined

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Everything posted by Itwasdestined

  1. Agree with both @SRAM and @hamerman55 about Leonard's love for Penny being an outcome of the affection she gave so readily even before they got together officially and how different it was to his family life. I also think it is important Leonard expresses his reasons for loving Penny. He may have said ILY more often than Penny but in seasons 4 and 6 we hear Penny's reasons for loving him a lot as we see and hear her go though the torment of her feelings but I don't really recall Leonard ever explaining his love, just that he does. Due to the cliched sitcom trope of nerd gets the hot chick, he is written talking about how lucky he is to have a beautiful woman and throughout the whole series he is always showing through his actions HOW MUCH he loves her ( Kurt, Car, multiple ILYs, career support) but it would be nice to hear him say WHY. And probably awkwardly funny as well.
  2. Agree with this viewpoint. Before Apeist, Penny saw each role she gained as the start of stardom. Before the commercial, she was giving up and heading back to Nebraska but went straight into the view of this ad is the start of great things. Her talk to Leonard after the NCIS cut was laced with the unfounded notion of her being famous and winning awards. I'd like to see her enjoying acting like we did with the Streetcar tag scene, the excitement she showed about her audition when she nailed forced crying (despite that ultimately being another knock back), even the dedication to acting her best in this episode when she wanted to redo the cage scene. More of that instead of the sad sack responses to failed auditions. Maybe some scenes where we see her doing her acting classes and auditions and of course some success, maybe working with a group of would be actors just acting out plays for fun to improve their craft.
  3. Lionne, I think we have come to agree on several points but the highlighted text in your comment brings me back to my original post's premise that it depends on our own perspective whether we see the way the proposal panned out as positive or negative. You have paraphrased what Penny said based on your perspective - it is not the actual words she says. What she actually says is " I finally realised I don't need to be famous or have some big career to be happy" to which Leonard responds "and what do you need" followed by Penny's " You, you stupid pop tart!" You've interpreted that as all she needs to be happy is Leonard. I can just as easily interpret it from another perspective as meaning "I don't have to be the most successful big name star and have fame and fortune ( which is probably why she did leave Nebraska and come to LA, much like many starstruck, hopeful wannabe actresses and actors ). I still want to be an actress but I'll be content just having a decent career playing minor roles but being fulfilled achieving a level of success AND (not only) being happy as Mrs Hofstadter."(incidentally that is how my wife and I live our lives - content with the jobs we have that could go further but happy being Mr and Mrs "Itwasdestined", while knowing for many of our friends and colleagues that is not enough.) And remember I have repeatedly stated I hope Season 8 is about Penny continuing her attempt at an acting career, not just planning life as a wife. I really appreciate your insight into whether Penny is really committed to the acting - the lack of critiquing, researching, practising. Maybe Season 8 could get some funny plots out of Penny going to Comic Con (or other convention) panels and showing her responses to successful actors or Sheldon could take her to his best buddy James Earl Jones for advice ( instead of just Wheaton)!! Forums (and reviews of any art form ) are full of interpretations of lines based on our personal viewpoints and life experiences and that's what we both have done. We've both shared a bit of our life experience that leads us to our interpretations of the proposal and I wholeheartedly agree that this show can present a negative message to women through Penny...but actual words should be quoted, not just paraphrased.
  4. Thanks Lionne. I've read lots of your posts ( a long time lurker) and yes you do have a lot to say. I'm with you 100% on the Penny plot writing. I so want her to have a fulfilling career ( doesn't have to be equal with Leonard, but fulfilling just like my wife's situation) and I think I've made that clear. I hate the stupid Penny the writers give us sometimes. I wanted both college success Penny and actress success Penny not depressed dependent Penny. What I think the proposal discussion centered on was Linking back to the I'm passionate about you speech in season 6 ep 21(?) when Penny expressed that she once only thought about the big successful career dream and now realised she can have that and Leonard. Also their fight after NCIS Cut when she put Leonard on the spot by asking if he believed she would win awards and be a star. Even in this current episode she was seeing herself as the 'star' of Apeist. I think (written by the writers ) in her mind that stardom is not number one now , loving Leonard is. What I want to see in season 8 is Penny looking for a working career not stardom. Leonard is no Stephen hawking but has a good job doing something worthwhile. Let her succeed in auditions, get regular small roles , some work in theatre maybe,a recurring advertisement role. Fulfilling work ( after 26 years I'm still a teacher not a principal - unusual for a male but it's fulfilling for me) for Penny without the too hard to achieve goal of being Meryl Streep or Julia Roberts. I want to see her at work a la Streetcar not sitting around drinking wine at the breakfast bar with the girls or cooking crunchy spaghetti every episode. If we get stay at home Penny planning her wedding instead I'll be leading the attack with you on your crusade. That's a bad plot plan by the writers. Sidebar: as for the man thing, being in the rare female dominated world of Primary school teaching, I get the "you're a man" thing a lot ( and it was your opening salvo!) I'm very thick skinned but that can hit my nerve occasionally. All is forgiven! In real life it shouldn't have to be one OR the other. I love that my wife and kids love me but I still need the cerebral stimulation of my job. In the world of sitcoms, writers don't seem to have a preference as evident with both the Shamy/Lenny arcs. What would be unique is having the gender roles reversed - Amy continuing at work while an undecided Sheldon sits at home watching Firefly reruns drinking virgin Cuban libres!
  5. Obviously hit a nerve, Lionne. Happens in forums. The last thing I like to do on forums is get into battles with people who have polar opposite opinions to me. But I don't like the assumption that because I'm a man, I apparently can't have an opinion on this one. To start with I said I want Penny to have a career. Not that I have to give my life story, although I did offer some up, my wife is not home with the kids - she has a job ( part time , her choice) AND is one of those women who is president of 3 volunteer committees because she IS fulfilled by these contributions - more than her job. I work in one of the few industries - teaching - absolutely dominated by female workforce - and while there are probably more male principals than female - I have spent 26 years working with female leaders and teachers who both work and raise families. We all have different circles of friends and co-workers - yours is different to mine and I did say we all come from different points of view which Is fine. I expressed mine and you yours. I absolutely agree with you that for many women in the workforce there are issues - I see it every day as a male teacher in a 90% female workforce. But I still don't know why women who CHOOSE the family route - and don't tell me no one does - have to be made to feel less important because they do that instead of career. I know I'm only a man but I know many women very fulfilled with family commitment instead of career but also many who choose both and I respect all of them. I know there is a justifiable and accurate perception that Chuck Lorre has a sexist streak in his shows and many are not happy with the path being written for the Penny character, me being one of them if the career option is taken off the table. It doesn't suit having her the only one in the show without success. But there are people out there who choose the path she is taking. But again I'm a man so I have a bias towards that choice. End of argument for me. I don't get involved in circular arguments. (I haven't addressed every point you make because I don't have to.) I'll move on to another show topic when it comes up.
  6. In response to the whole "Penny is only marrying Leonard because getting married is the only thing that is going to make a woman happy and she is going to have no career and that is bad" debate...... I want Penny to keep acting. I didn't like her defeatist attitude at the bar but loved Leonard trying to encourage her, showing he still wants her to have a career and not depend on him. I don't want her to be a housewife. BUT it all depends on your own take on life and love and relationships how positive and negative you look at this scenario and each to his own. Me personally, I'm a 47 year old married husband/father with a very fulfilling teaching career. But I am only truly happy because I am married to my wonderful wife and have my beautiful children. If I wasn't married, I'd have a stimulating life teaching kids but I wouldn't be as happy as I am being with my wife and kids. For some, career is what they need and see Penny settling for love with a man instead of pursuing her career dream. For me, she recognises Leonard making her happy as number one priority ( but I do hope she doesn't give up on the acting - it just isn't THE most important reason for happiness)
  7. I found this quote from Jim Parsons in the article quite interesting. “It was very interesting to read it for the first time and then to play the final episode because it really gets at the crux of something that is perhaps his defining characteristic as a character on television — which is his resistance to change. If you look at it through that lens, so many of the things he does, the things he says, the places he sits, etc, have everything to do with the fact that this is the way it’s done, this is the right way to do it and this has served him fairly well as a human. They’ve got him in a situation now, the writers do, where it’s not possible to carry on without some of these changes.” You would think that ,apart from the writers, Jim would understand Sheldon better than anyone else. In light of so much angst from Shamy shippers - and I get where you guys are coming from and am not criticising your responses to your ship's rocky journey in the finale - it is interesting that Jim focuses on the crux of his character's traits rather than the duality of the Sheldon/Amy relationship issues. Many argue Sheldon has changed too much from S1 to now - I myself don't like the selfish, nasty Sheldon we get sometimes these days compared to the clueless, 100% honest Sheldon of early seasons. But Jim for me does nail down the crux of the issue for Sheldon - he doesn't like change. And everything about Season 7 is change for Sheldon. Change of romantic emotions with Amy, change of living conditions (confirmation of definitely losing Leonard to Penny) , change of family relationship with his Mum, change of work conditions and losing his confidence in string theory and his genius, change of his feelings towards losing people important to him ( he pretends he doesn't care about mourning death but clearly is), change of him being the centre of the universe in his mind ( not evident until after the Table episode - probably the last win he has had ) have all been built up by the writers so that Sheldon has no choice but to work out how he is going to cope. While Shamy shippers will understandably focus on the undeniable bad treatment of Amy and criticise the writers for the sloppy, inconsistent story lines, non shippers are possibly more interested in the personal story of Sheldon they have been following since Season 1, before the Amy influence of S4 and beyond. I'm probably with Jim on this one. I'm fascinated by how Sheldon is going to handle it all and look forward to Season 8 and how it transpires. I'm merely interested in how the Shamy relationship develops. I do hope it works out though - I like their chemistry and what it brings to the show.
  8. Great follow up to Proton last week - writers are finishing strongly. I posted this take on the engagement in the Lenny Spoiler thread but feel like adding it to the episode thread as well. "I thought the whole episode paid homage to the history of Leonard and Penny beautifully and the proposal was perfectly in character for the two of them. When you think of the accidental " what have I got to lose" nature of their first date, the first Penny "I love you" that just came out of her mouth without even knowing it happened and the stuffed up romance with the Hitchhikers Guide in "Romance Resonance", Penny was never going to deliver on the big proposal promised in the Valentines Day episode in S6. Nevertheless, the true love she expressed in this proposal linked beautifully with her "I'm passionate about you" line, the "my next marriage will be for love" from Thanksgiving and their beautiful moments with the holograph in the lab scene and the farewell in the car in the S6 finale. Kaley's tone and facial expressions showed so much love for her man. This was real in Lenny fashion. She is so sure, there are no doubts, he is the reason for her true happiness. Even the regular complaints on this forum that Penny doesn't stick up for Leonard like he does was beautifully done with her defence of Leonard when the director attacked him. She risked and lost her job for him - she is putting Leonard first in all ways now. As for Leonard's response in all this, we saw the new better version of Leonard really stand up, the one that Stuart said was improved by Penny. He wasn't the desperate 'anything to be with Penny' Leonard from Lenny 1.0 in seasons 1-3. He doesn't want to be the comfortable nice guy choice she settles for. He wants to be exciting to her ( and he is - "I'm passionate about you" comes into play again). But he also in the end got the proposal he wanted to do - not unplanned in bed in the heat of passion before they were sure, not the desperate emotional responses he attempted in the restaurant on Valentines Day or her bother effort half drunk and depressed. No - he had a ring for 2 years knowing it was going to happen one day because he knew it was right. And the expression on Penny's face when he pulled that ring out and got down on one knee and said those words "Penny ( no surname still because guess what it was never important until it becomes Hofstadter) will you marry me was one of pure joy. In reality she got the proposal she has been waiting for for many years and Leonard got to do it, which I think he always wanted despite that Valentines Day promise to let her do it when she was ready. It could not have been any more appropriate. And a final nice homage to the whole relationship? Will Wheaton. He was involved in the breakup and here he is four years later sort of involved in the event that became the catalyst for the proposal. I thought that was a nice touch. The whole thing could not have been written better, except for maybe more physical affection after the proposal. Maybe a tag with the two of them snuggling in bed like they did in the old days of Season 3. I miss that and hope they can fit that in more in Season 8 and beyond." As for the rest of the episode, it was great to have a plot that gave Howardette more screen time - hasn't been much since the Bernardette song and Howard's dad letter episodes (apart from the slightly cringe worthy double date with Raj and Emily). They had some funny and serious conversations about their relationship and builds towards more serious discussion about possible parenthood and hinted at the comedy that could provide. I'm loving Raj's new maturity since Emily came onto the scene. He is so honest about himself and I think she loves that about him. They are so natural together and he Raj is so much funnier in this persona instead of that pathetic early Season 7 version. I think Sheldon's comment about being comfortable being alone was spot on for Raj- his lack of desperation is making him a better catch as a boyfriend. There were some real LOL moments in this episode too. I can't recall them all at the moment but my daughter and I were really laughing hard during some parts involving all characters. Sheldon was the only letdown tonight. It was one of those episodes when he regressed back to be completely self absorbed and insulting without innocence. Still funny at times but "chemical castration" and "slick" were not great moments in the episode. Still excellent episode - although I'm sure the Shamys were upset about the lack of their ship.
  9. I thought the whole episode paid homage to the history of Leonard and Penny beautifully and the proposal was perfectly in character for the two of them. When you think of the accidental " what have I got to lose" nature of their first date, the first Penny "I love you" that just came out of her mouth without even knowing it happened and the stuffed up romance with the Hitchhikers Guide in "Romance Resonance", Penny was never going to deliver on the big proposal promised in the Valentines Day episode in S6. Nevertheless, the true love she expressed in this proposal linked beautifully with her "I'm passionate about you" line, the "my next marriage will be for love" from Thanksgiving and their beautiful moments with the holograph in the lab scene and the farewell in the car in the S6 finale. Kaley's tone and facial expressions showed so much love for her man. This was real in Lenny fashion. She is so sure, there are no doubts, he is the reason for her true happiness. Even the regular complaints on this forum that Penny doesn't stick up for Leonard like he does was beautifully done with her defence of Leonard when the director attacked him. She risked and lost her job for him - she is putting Leonard first in all ways now. As for Leonard's response in all this, we saw the new better version of Leonard really stand up, the one that Stuart said was improved by Penny. He wasn't the desperate 'anything to be with Penny' Leonard from Lenny 1.0 in seasons 1-3. He doesn't want to be the comfortable nice guy choice she settles for. He wants to be exciting to her ( and he is - "I'm passionate about you" comes into play again). But he also in the end got the proposal he wanted to do - not unplanned in bed in the heat of passion before they were sure, not the desperate emotional responses he attempted in the restaurant on Valentines Day or her bother effort half drunk and depressed. No - he had a ring for 2 years knowing it was going to happen one day because he knew it was right. And the expression on Penny's face when he pulled that ring out and got down on one knee and said those words "Penny ( no surname still because guess what it was never important until it becomes Hofstadter) will you marry me was one of pure joy. In reality she got the proposal she has been waiting for for many years and Leonard got to do it, which I think he always wanted despite that Valentines Day promise to let her do it when she was ready. It could not have been any more appropriate. And a final nice homage to the whole relationship? Will Wheaton. He was involved in the breakup and here he is four years later sort of involved in the event that became the catalyst for the proposal. I thought that was a nice touch. The whole thing could not have been written better, except for maybe more physical affection after the proposal. Maybe a tag with the two of them snuggling in bed like they did in the old days of Season 3. I miss that and hope they can fit that in more in Season 8 and beyond.
  10. Highlight of the season for me. There have been funnier episodes ( I cracked up continuously through scavenger, thanksgiving and Christmas ) but this was a brilliantly written episode that should be the template for all episodes. All the story arcs were linked, even the mini one with Amy and Bernadette. The episodes that have bugged me this year are the ones where the support characters were just in scenes for the sake of collecting a pay packet. Compare this episode which had a major Lenny focus to the double proposal episodes earlier in season. While Leonard and Penny had major time to develop the plot, these shows were spoiled by completely unrelated and pointless scenes involving the Raj and Stewart can't talk to people story, the irrelevant Amy/Bert plot and Bernie needs a comic. They interrupted the flow of Lennys story and cut their scenes short without any purpose. This episode on the other hand flowed perfectly from start to finish. With Star Wars day as the backdrop, Howard/Raj and Amy/Bernadette contributed to the story while not interfering with the two main arcs of Lenny and Sheldon's dream with Proton. What I really appreciated was the length of the scenes between Lenny and Sheldon/Proton. Each of their scenes gave them time to develop a conversation that had time to include both humour and real emotional impact. Compare this with the constant stop start short scenes in Anything Can happen that just seemed to be setups for punch lines but no time to build chemistry between characters in the scene or develop plot. The transition from Sheldon's dream end to Leonard's entry and the subsequent hug highlight then move into returning to the boys was not interrupted by the sometimes annoying spinning atom animation - it just flowed and allowed time for the viewer to appreciated what happened. I also loved the positive tone of the episode. Sheldon's barbs weren't mean spirited, Penny never got that snarky whiny look on her face when Leonard stirred her ( they looked so content and happy with each other ) Amy and Bernie were not being negative about their men's geeky exploits and actually embraced it for a change and Bob Newhart was just brilliant in everything he did and nailed his unwitting positive message to Sheldon. I just loved the happy vibe, despite the somber death plot. I just loved seeing the girls embracing their secret geekiness and that writers openly fed Penny multiple admissions of understanding the boys Star Wars references. I love watching Jim Parsons using that mellow, respectful tone when he is being nice Sheldon. I loved confident, comfortable, secure, adult Leonard. I loved Lenny alone time without Sheldon interference. I just loved the whole thing.
  11. Absolutely agree with this Koops. Their relationship shouldn't be the same as his relationships with everyone else's. That is the change in the writing I don't like either. But I do see his interactions maturing with the others - especially with Howard and Penny ( he's still a [email protected]#*% with them sometimes but that's just the obligatory punch line the writers still require ) so maybe Season 8 will be the maturing of the Shamy relationship. Of course you would possibly argue it didn't need to be degraded in order to be matured again - and I probably agree.
  12. I'm looking forward to how everyone here reacts once they actually watch the next three episodes ( and for those who are saying they don't want to, I hope you reconsider ) just to see if there is a repositioning of opinion based on real events rather than interpretation of reports. I've sensed a softening on the last episodes moments ( the gulp, Sheldon's facial reaction to the psychic, the different portrayal of the Leonard/Amy scene compared to the report ) from some here compared of the anger and frustration in response to the taping reports. Maybe when we SEE his interactions with Proton and Leonard in the next episode, SEE how his conversation pans out with Raj in full context rather than just focus on those two understandably upsetting words "slick heh", SEE how the final scenes with Amy plays out in the finale, we might not feel so depressed and anxious and interpret Sheldon's reactions more positively. Don't get me wrong, I agree with many here about the roller coaster inconsistent writing of the relationship. I too feel that Amy is not getting enough hope for more from Sheldon nor do I like how her character has become too emotional and submissive compared to the equal of Sheldon Amy we grew to love. And certainly I don't want it reverting to normal transmission in episode 1 season 8 But I do think a lot of the angst here is generated by interpretation ( some of it justifiably based on writer past behaviour I'll grant you) of spoilers and we should at least wait until we watch the actual episodes with all the acting nuances Jim, Mayim and the others bring to the words on paper before we get so dejected about what is coming up in the last 3 episodes and Season 8. Just my 2 cents worth. I love Shamy too but not quite a attached as everyone else here. Here's hoping for a great outcome for these two great characters and we can enjoy Season 8 and beyond.
  13. That no matter what thread I read someone is obsessing over Penny being a thief The "pathetic Raj" storyline Making Penny look stupid ( from Penny Blossom creator to I can't use glue) The loss of science focus at the expense of romance Sheldon as a baby/dog Not following up stories ( Leonard's Hawking experience, Penny's college attempt, Yvette's interest in Raj)
  14. Seriously are we still going on about the stealing? The main protagonists here are never going to budge so just agree to disagree and move on.
  15. Beautifully said, Cecilia. Despite the issues several have with Sheldon centric story lines, I agree with your perspective on how the writers have handled it. I'd like to add to it further by highlighting how they have managed to mature his relationships with the other characters who have been with him from the beginning during Season 7. After 7 seasons, despite the insults and sarcasm for comedic reasons, he finally sees Penny as someone who can offer advice worth taking and can sit down and discuss his issues with. The fact that in the finale, we hear that he has given her great praise to Beverley is further evidence of this. I think it is a beautiful touch that it is Penny who recognizes the need for him to get away and deal with his dilemma alone and that hug and kiss she gives him is a great way of shoeing how that relationship has grown both ways ( I know its dangerous talking about a Shenny moment in a Shamy thread but as a newbie I'll take the hits!) After 7 seasons he can finally, warmly and openly give Leonard a hug as seen in Proton promo photos and this is a follow up to his heartfelt speech to him after his refusal of Penny's proposal ( regardless of the unnecessary kick me sign tag ). After 7 seasons we finally see a real relationship with Howard. Some of their scenes together in late S7 have been incredibly well acted and shown real growth in both of them. After 7 seasons, we finally see him having a real adult conversation with Raj in ep 23 outside the topic of science or geekdom After 7 seasons, he can finally have an adult conversation with his mother and challenge her authority, her actions and beliefs. Which brings me to Amy. She has made amazing progress with him in 4 seasons. Much has been said about the pace of their relationships growth. Many here want it to have progressed further by now but considering it has taken him so long to cement adult relationships ( far, far from perfect I know and still liable to regress) with his long time friends, maybe more time is needed for him to work out what he really feels about Amy. Maybe the writers have it right and didn't want to resolve it before season 8. Maybe she does need time apart from Sheldon so she can work out what she really feels too. Maybe she and Penny have more in common than we consider and while some here think it is lazy and cliched to use the same plot device, maybe Amy needs to have time with her girl friends ( Bernadette, Penny and who knows, Emily - she did bond with her in her first appearance and Emily had some good advice for Raj on their first date) exploring and opening up about her feelings like Penny did in season 4 and early 6. Maybe she needs Sheldon to finally realise he needs her like Leonard did with Penny and have him barge in and ask her out a la 5.13. I'm not a Shamy shipper and don't have the same commitment to their story as most of you in here and was reluctant to give my opinion when many here are still quite emotional ( although it's good to see many have settled down after the initial traumatic experience ) but I do LOVE the show and I hope Season 8 will see Sheldon and Amy get there like Lenny have. And as I said it's taken the others 7 seasons to get there with Sheldon - it's not to hard to accept a 5 year success Story for Shamy, is it?
  16. It was a funny episode in parts, especially the Raj and Howard scenes but some scenes seemed really short and the show itself was less than 20 mins. Some scenes could have done with more development, especially some of the Shenny scenes in the restaurant. A good thing for me was the Leonard/Amy scene, mainly because it proved yet again that many of us should not take taping reports so much to heart and wait for the actual viewing of scenes before flying off the handle about how unfair Leonard was to make out Penny had a more special relationship with Sheldon than Amy. Both Amy and Leonard were pretty spot on. Amy wasn't threatened but wished he would open up more often and Leonard simply pointed out Penny has known him for a long time. Truth is, they did have a lot of good moments in the pre Amy seasons between all the insults. It's been good to read that SOME of the Shamies who were so against this part of the episode in spoiler threads a few weeks ago understand its purpose now they have seen it for themselves. Maybe one day we'll learn to wait for episodes before reacting in Season 8 ( doubt it, though) I like what Emily is doing for Raj, regardless of the knife cutting and slash movie fetishes. On their first date she allowed him to be honest and again in this episode he was comfortable enough to be honest with her and express his doubts about her personality. It's refreshing change from the insecure, foot in mouth Raj we have known for years. Without alcohol needed to talk to women, he is slowly working out how to do it. Hope this continues into Season 8. Jim really is portraying an insecure, mentally tortured Sheldon beautifully at the moment. His facial expressions and voice tones tell so much more than mere words interpreted on a taping report and you could sense his mind ticking over when the Psychic was speaking. Leading on from his voice work in Diremption and his face in this episode, I can really sense his struggle at the moment. Not the funniest episode by a long way - it was like the later seasons of MASH ( showing my age!) when the drama took over the comedy at times - but still enjoyable and am looking forward to the continuing battles going on in Sheldons mind and how that affects Lenny and Amy in future episodes.
  17. Pretty good DNA match but he will always be Frasier Crane to me
  18. Well said, Anita! As a teacher, I have taught tons of kids with Sheldon's quirks ( and I'm diagnosing conditions here). Whether you talk about S1 Sheldon or S7 Sheldon, changes to status quo can make them fly off the handle so easily and quickly. Many may not like what he has become and feel for Amy but I have been in Amy's position many times as a teacher of kids like Sheldon. They can be irrational for 10 minutes and then have a perfectly rational discussion with you when they have had time to reflect on their actions and be quite sincerely apologetic. I know he not Crazy because his mom had him tested but a Sheldon does have issues and despite what many have been saying about him and the writers' portrayal of him, from first hand experience I think his recent actions are quite consistent for someone like him. If he comes back in Season 8 like nothing has happened, it will infuriate the upset Shamies evident today but to me it would make sense if he did.
  19. Agree with all of this. I need to learn to say things in fewer words like this!
  20. Long time lurker. First time poster! Found this forum only a couple of months ago and having been an avid contributor to a sport related forum a few years ago, it's interesting to see that regardless of a forum's focus, the same group dynamics apply. Clearly in this fascinating thread we have the stereotypical overly emotional, the conclusion jumpers, the sarcastic pot stirrers, the cheer leaders, the self appointed experts, the ridiculously biased, the " I shouldn't have posted this comment at 3 in the morning when I was so tired" and so on ( and I make all these observations with love in my heart!) Me personally, I'm more the rational logical stereotype who tries to keep the emotions in check and stick with evidence at hand. So much for the introduction. Clearly many in this forum who have made strong emotional connections to this wonderful comedy and its lovable bunch of characters are understandably upset and I'm not going to judge that. I can get that way with my wildly unsuccessful football team back here in Australia so I feel your pain. But hopefully in the cold light of day after a good night or two's sleep and some time to take of our Amy colored glasses ( that's probably the closest I'll get to an insult), we can come back in four weeks when we actually watch the show instead of interpreting some wonderful but not 100% perfect taping reports, we can come back and look at the events in a different light. I've only been watching the show for a bit over the year and watching episodes in syndication out of sequence didn't allow me to fully understand the show and the relationships. This changed when I became obsessed during the Aussie Summer School holidays and I got hold of the entire series and watched it from episode one to now in about 4 weeks. To this day I manage to rewatch episodes on a daily basis so am getting close to being as obsessed with the show as many here, the only difference being I am not emotionally attached to the character ships like many here. After that long winded build up, I'll get to my points. I feel the attacks on Lenny are a little more than unwarranted. I think those who are understandably upset about Amy's role in the finale are reading the taping report with their emotions not their eyes. Unless something different was said in the chat rooms that is not in delsinos report ( amazing effort that, by the way) I just can't see the bad treatment Amy got from them. My reading of the report is that neither Amy or Lenny are aware that Sheldon has left in the way it pans out when Penny asks her to 'get out'. All they know is that Sheldon has left Amy's apartment upset and not returned. Not exactly first time behaviour for our Shelly. From the word of the reports, Amy wasn't exactly emotionally distraught at this point and neither Lenny or Amy are really aware of what is to come. It appears from my reading that Amy recognizes herself that the engaged couple want some time alone, (Penny could have expressed it nicer but I thinks she recognizes that Leonard's less than obvious hints are not always effective with Amy and realises clarity works better with Amy)) and leaves voluntarily and not too upset. it's only 1 scene later when Lenny realise that something is amiss and they head straight to Sheldon to find out what is wrong, something that they have done so many times during this show, that I shouldn't have to list examples. Yes they could have called Amy like Penny did in the Table episode but she may or may not have got to the station in time anyway ( I'm no expert in the relative distance from the train station her apartment is compared to 4A). In keeping with both long term and recent characterizations, Leonard tries to convince him to stay but Penny in her current role of understanding what is needed for Sheldon ( I'm well aware many are angry with this sudden influence but again I don't feel the need to quote many times in previous seasons she has done this) and feels they should let him go. A couple of scenes later we are back at the apartment with Amy on the phone with Lenny in the background listening. In a 20 minute sitcom we don't see everything that happens and no one on this forum can 100% unemotionally categorically state that between these two scenes Penny didn't contact Amy and discuss what happened at the station or at Amy's apartment in more detail. Everyone's responses are based on what we so often describe as head canon on this forum which is based on what we want to happen, not what we know has happened. It is here I really want to see for myself how this last scene plays out, not interpret the words of a taping report. All I can say is that I read that Amy has spoken to Sheldon, she notes to Lenny that he sounds better and Penny thinks it needed to pan out like this. And then, probably to build the cliff hanger moment ( which unfortunately for the emotionally attached fueled the flames more) Amy lashes out at Leonard ( maybe Amy reads fan forums and recognizes that it is always Leonard's fault so it was the right thing to do), in an emotional outburst not dissimilar to her "what the hell Sheldon" moment in the Season 6 living together episode. That's my 2 cents worth. Will it be a funny episode? We don't know until we watch it, although I have already had a chuckle at some of the scenarios outlined in the reports. Will everyone be happy? NO . Fan forums would not exist if we all agreed with each other. will it rate well? Yep. And if every poster here who has threatened to never watch the show again because they are so upset follow through on their threat, the ratings will be affected by 0.00001% while I tune in later in the year to watch the clichéd, lazy, spiteful writers put together a season opener that will delight or infuriate everyone here. Sorry I went on so much. I've been waiting so long write something here I got carried away. I look forward to commenting on actual viewed episodes in the next four weeks when we can react to actual events not interpretations of them. I got to get ready for work tomorrow.
  21. Long time lurker, first time poster! Not so much in recent times but she was actually very supportive of him during other relationships he had, despite holding back her true feelings about him, and has helped him mature in many ways. While it hurt her, she kept her distance during the Priya relationship out of respect for him. She responded to the call to pick them up when his car broke down coming back from their unsuccessful quest for Sheldon's online gaming belongings, despite him being in the middle of his Priya relationship. She was there for him when he was questioning his fidelity when Alice came into the picture during his long distance relationship with Priya. Any time she stepped in to help Sheldon gave Leonard a break! She gave him good advice during the Stephanie relationship. She helped him get ready for his presentation by picking out an outfit. Tenure episode. While her support might appear superficial compared to buying a car and risking his life trying to her her money back from Kurt, she has been a great support in developing his confidence in living in the 'normal world'.
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