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April

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Everything posted by April

  1. So you don't consume fiction about ppl that are, you know, different than you or...? That seems awfully limiting. Though feel free to elaborate if you think I misunderstood you.
  2. That won't gonna happen. At worst I expect Sheldon to sleep on the couch but that's about it.
  3. Well, I guess what is "bad writing" and what is "this is how they see the characters" are highly debatable categories then. What scene/plot/etc goes into what category is clearly very different depending on who you ask. In the end this is a show that prides itself in "make shit up as you go" and not one that has multi-year arcs planned out, so by this very nature you end up with random stuff more often here and a couple of well established running gags there, no matter how well or little they fit. Like, there are plenty of things I also didn't like about Shamy in the last episode and I suspect it's a result of the same trotting out some old running gags nonsense (you know, what we coined the "Sheldon will always be Sheldon moments" in the Shamy thread that makes us roll our eyes loud enough to hear even after Tensor hides the posts lol). Same difference, I guess. Point is, this is the last season in a fairly uncontroversial comfort food sitcom - this is the time to be a bit of a crowd pleaser instead of kicking up a fuss. Now, to be fair they didn't technically know this would be the last but Holland is on record saying they approached it like that anyway so... no matter how you cut it they thought this was a great idea for Lenny... for some reason?? Yeah, and people wonder why I don't think the writers have a high opinion about Lenny. (Or rather don't realise that the things they say doesn't exactly make them sound like they have a high opinion.) I'd love to have someone grill them on that in an interview! hahaha
  4. Well, they are fictional characters that solely exist at the writers' whims so we're all straight out of luck here if you want different characters - unless you resort to fanfics, naturally. It was just an example - and again, you keep shifting the angle to emphasise that these things are not related when they have one central writing approach in common, namely that the writers don't think Lenny are big planners so their relationship moments are often happen on a whim, i.e. here to have Penny propose when the gorilla movie falls through and it shifts her perspective enough to propose right then and there. I don't say these are bad moments - I love the "you stupid pop tart!" to bits - but the writing is consistent with that and it makes it in character. To elaborate what kind of planing I'm thinking about: The writers could have Penny make plans for a romantic proposal cause she realised it was time in some other way and Leonard likes all this romance stuff so she could put in an effort or whatever but they didn't cause it would feel OOC. Or compare it to Howardette who had a whole episode with the gang gossiping about Howard planning to propose to Bernadette. We don't even see much of the planning but it's the topic of the episode (among others). I never said these things are related so... not sure why you bring this up?? It's one thing to consistently write Lenny as a couple that doesn't plan and doesn't talk important things through much because of that stupid running gag and what have you - but it's something completely different to throw in sudden drama with Leonard being an ass for no reason (how OOC or IC it may be is surely debatable as well, looking at past discussions in the forum). I wouldn't put these in the same boat.
  5. I think he's referring to the "smart and beautiful babies" but that line didn't happen at the end of the episode.
  6. Well, they've never written Lenny as being big planners now, have they? That seems to be a pretty consistent thing over the years alongside the "they are different and have nothing to talk about" stuff. Like, they could have written either Penny or Leonard planning to propose but they didn't. They could have written Lenny planning their wedding but they didn't (and threw in some "they are just that spontaneous!" sort of interviews for good measure). They could have Lenny plan their second wedding but they didn't. They could have Lenny plan all sorts of things about their future but they didn't. Heck, they could have Lenny plan a simple vacation and they didn't do that either. Instead we got all sorts of plots where things happen on a whim or it's pointed out how they didn't do anything worthwhile. At best it's framed as "they only need each other to be happy", at worst it's the usual "they have nothing in common" joke.
  7. Yeah, I think that's the thing that's mostly bugging me about this. They made it clear Penny doesn't want kids but her reasons are not explored and I fear it's kept ambiguous so the writers can change their mind and come up with a surprise pregnancy or whatever. ugh
  8. I mean, this is just people jumping to conclusions and not necessarily the writers explicitly claiming "The never talked about this!!" - it's all implication and interpretation. But they sure love that "they have nothing in common and don't talk to each other about anything of worth" joke so I can't deny they're encouraging this either. This has been the status quo for Lenny since basically the beginning of the show. The issue is in part (and this has been my point since the news hit) that they had more wiggle room with Lenny than with the other couples - and maybe deliberately so cause they just don't plan things out and neither do Lenny according to them.
  9. Okay, first I'm not sure that the show is as judgemental about it any more than it is about the "they have nothing in common" thing which is all a big lark to them even 11 years and counting. So I don't think it's framed as "irresponsible" and "wrong" unless you think that about Lenny in general and we both know you don't. Second, I will happily agree that they could have written it in a way that included a reference to the earlier times it came up - and they could still end up with the same idea that they never had a serious talk about it. But then again this is tbbt and when do they ever do this? They'd have to include a lot more dramatic writing to explain things and why do that when you can trot out your favourite running gag instead? (Ugh)
  10. It's not refuting your claim, it's continuing to point out the differences you've repeatedly asked about. One of them is the fact that the other two couples had entire plots about the issue before they got married and even after in the case of Howardette. Lenny got the occasional line here or there but this is the first time the writers made it a plot for them and this is the result. In the end the writers clearly think differently of Lenny than you and many other fans did/do which sucks and I really do feel for you, believe me. But to me there's no denying that the other couples simply got more proper attention on the subject than Lenny did. Yep, again, never denied that it sucks for their fans. ??? I don't care.
  11. How serious or not you personally find it doesn't matter. Of course some situations are silly because it's a sitcom and if Lenny had a silly discussion about kids that would still count in my book. The difference is that the other two couples brought it up before marriage. In Howardette's case it was serious as it was a deal-breaker for Howard. They got engaged super quick so it makes sense they haven't talked about everything, yet. Shamy's examples are more over the top because, you know, sitcom. But they talked about the prospect of kids before marriage and the first time was shortly after they met. Lenny however? Nada. They had a long long courting phase and apparently it never came up, not even off screen? It sure does play into this godawful running gag about them not being able to talk about anything because they are so different. Ugh (and yes, if you didn't notice I don't like it either) Oh yeah, I would totally think this was just to buy them some time in the past cause after making Bernie a mother (who could have been their poster child for the childfree crowd if they actually wanted one) I thought they were going for a babies ever after conclusion of the show. And I gotta say even after reading the TR it took me a bit by surprise how serious they made Penny about this. They didn't leave themselves much wiggle room with this and I think it was kinda unnecessary cause, GDI writers, learn to read the room- ppl want a fluffy ending for Lenny! Oh come on! It's always easy to say that after the fact. Just do it next time!
  12. That clearly slipped everybody's mind cause you're the first to bring this up in the weeks since the TR where we've discussed this and I've asked for instances where Penny participates in such a way. It's still a bit low key compared to literally fighting over names but at least it's something. So thanks for that. I'm not arguing one way or another here. I also thought that Penny would end up with kids by the end of the show (and I still kinda think she will albeit in a messier way now) but at the same time I never felt they made her enthusiastic about kids. Yes, she is very motherly to various characters on the show but that doesn't necessarily translate to adding her own babies to the mix. Look, there were many opportunities for the writers to give her a clear enthusiastic pro-baby stance but they kept it a bit vague for whatever reason. That's why we're in this weird pickle where we even can / have to discuss how ppl can interpret scenes differently. Now the writers decided to end any ambiguity but not how most of us thought they would. It sucks, no need to deny that. In the end it's clear to me that a lot of viewers are not on the same page as the writers when it comes to Lenny.
  13. You were the one asking "What is the difference between Shamy and Lenny here?" - bringing it up and being excited IS the difference. You had them chatting about kids off screen during the summer between S3 and S4 which led to the plot in 4x01, you had them both be excited at the prospect of procreating on Mars in S8, and while Amy rejected Sheldon's baby fever in S10 you had her express how many kids she wants and even fighting with Leonard about the name in S11. So it's coming from both of them at various points in the show and both in a positive context, no matter how much you want to slice hairs about level of excitement. What we got from Lenny was Leonard dreaming of smart & beautiful babies, Leonard thinking they'd make good parents and Leonard picking out names - while Penny was only reacting like "yeah, sure, someday" and the only time she even remotely brought it up was with the girls where she felt pressured into having certain relationship milestones, which you can certainly interpret as you like but the bottom line is that the writers have never ever let Penny be excited about the prospect of kids with Leonard on her own accord. It's all on Leonard here. Not that a comparison matters anyway because Lenny are not Shamy and the writers clearly approach both couples differently. You might as well throw in Howardette as a comparison and it still won't help anyone to understand why the writers just don't write any proper relationship progressing stories for Lenny. They clearly can with Shamy. They clearly can with Howardette. But with Lenny they just give them stories about how they don't do things or don't want things or don't plan things or don't... whatever. It's almost like the writers think "don't" is Lenny's thing somehow.
  14. Except Shamy have both been excited about the prospect of having kids at all. That is already a big difference despite not having a concrete plan, yet. Has Penny ever excitedly brought up the prospect of having kids? I can't remember her ever marvelling at the mere idea of it.
  15. Oh yes, exactly. That was obvious. I'll readily agree that in the past it was less obvious and maybe she was just pushing it aside in hope that the issue will somehow solve itself (like her biological clock kicking in or whatever). But still her answers weren't exactly enthusiastic and if my partner was giving me that for years I'd be at least a bit suspicious if I really wanted kids (soon-ish).
  16. Not sure what that has to do with Shamy??? Though of course the difference is that they've both brought up the plan of having kids one day at different points and from YS we already know they will have kids. We don't know when and how many though and maybe we'll never find out. *shrug* Actually, depending on my gut feeling, like if he'd be doing this for years, I might think my partner is stalling cause he might not want kids - it's not unheard of. Or maybe I just read too many advice columns. lol I don't deny they happened, I just simply brought up that many people might not consider these much of a "talk" at all.
  17. The issue is how you interpret "talk" here. Lots of people don't see two lines of "yeah, someday, sure" as a proper talk. You obviously think different (and of course with Lenny you get so little you gotta cling to every straw you get) but it might simply be a misunderstanding of semantics with those comments from other people.
  18. TBH I can believe that at last. It's easy to imagine that Sheldon might not have had a concrete number in mind for some time or just spoke in vague plural terms about their future children. Heck, even though we know that they'll have kids we still don't know how many. The "I'm not a physical person" is the one I call bullshit on when he literally drags Amy off to the bedroom just because she said something smart. lol
  19. Much has been said about the Lenny plot so I'll try to keep it short: I don't think it's totally out of character for Penny to not want kids as I don't interpret her former "yeah, sure someday" stance as a particularly strong wish to actually have them. Some people suddenly come to the realisation they want kids, and some that they don't. It happens. I don't think she deceived Leonard or anything, just that at this point it was clear to her kids are a NO. Maybe her opinion will change, maybe it won't, but I guess either way it might end a bit messy cause either you offend people who want Penny to be a spokesperson for the childless crowd or you piss off fans who want those s&b babies. Oh well. I found Leonard's initial freak out surprisingly satisfying cause I feared they would just let him have a too small reaction. (I mean, this is the guy who already picked names and probably dreamed up a future with their 2.5 kids and white picket fence so...) I'm not sure I buy him being fine with not having kids after the stunt with Penny's dad - not just calling him but also the way he ran off which looked like he was hoping daddy would change Penny's mind. But maybe that's just me. Gotta agree with @Jonny that their friends' reactions were all a bit baffling. Bernie was pretty harsh and she could have been the most understanding seeing where she came from. Shamy were just so OOC for no reason that it took me right out of the episode. WTF was that??!? I did find that I like the Raj and Anu part more than I thought I would. I don't have a problem with the premise of arranging a wedding. Sure, it's a bit short and quick because it's a sitcom and we don't have more seasons to take it slow so I'm okay with cutting corners. I thought the two were cure and I feel Anu is willing to entertain Raj's romantic side. She sees the potential in him and I feel she'd also be able to whip him into shape if necessary cause we all know Raj's not-so-nice side. So yeah, it could work out. I'm also not sure I want this to fail cause it would be just another failed relationship and it's getting tiresome. Heck, at this point it would be refreshing to see Raj in a relationship where he's really trying to make this work. Of course the highlight of the episode was Stuart and Denise getting it on to Smooth Operator and poor Howardette suffering a little. hahahahha
  20. He said they were like 6 or 7 episodes in when they got the news.
  21. Yeah, I'm not worried about the outcome. PP will talk some sense into Sheldon and he'll make things right with Amy as always. I wished they were more creative with this cause it feels a bit like a rehash of last year. But oh well,we knew something was coming, might as well be a paint-by-numbers plot.
  22. And here we go: I think that might have been the one they filmed last week? Would fit with the timing of the interview.
  23. Exactly! It's been established that Amy saying smart things gets his motor running - and that's precisely what happened.
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