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Martian Girl

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  1. At the same time, I don't think it's got much to do with the "nerd" viewpoint being the less "adult" one. Sheldon provides the often politically-incorrect/insensitive view-point, but that's got nothing to do with being a nerd per se. I don't see how being a nerd has anything to do with being inconsiderate or selfish or immature. And I would hope that the show isn't trying to send the message that behaving more adult-like means de-nerdizing: I hope these guys are going to continue having their game nights and comic book store trips well into retirement!  


    I think you have a point here but I would also point out there actually is no homogeneous nerd viewpoint. All these characters are different and Sheldon is the most different. He is not just politically-incorrect/insensitive he is completely emotionally and socially retarded. As a child prodigy he worked at developing his intellect and had no respect for those who might have helped him develop socially. Yet he is still obedient to his mother when she really wants him to be (ie apologizing to Penny and giving her cloths back). He is also easily manipulated by his mother after the break-up with Amy.


    I've always thought the show's whole point is to show the world from the viewpoint of the people who are intellectually gifted but socially challenged, and that's what I meant by "nerd". (I know that there are many definitions, but I think this one best suits the BBT characters.) "Socially challenged" may include being antisocial, quirky, shy, proud, and, in a sense, inconsiderate, selfish, and immature. If it was only about scientific knowledge and geeky interests, I would have probably stopped watching a long time ago - I like it because it explores the difference between (exaggerated) totally intellectual (theoretical) standpoint of Sheldon and the (also exaggerated) practical (normal) one, exemplified by Penny (Leonard being, more on less, in the middle), and because it does it in a funny way. Both standpoints come with advantages and disadvantages, but basically they're just different, and I like it that the show presents both in a sympathetic way.

  2. Of course by all means Leonard should disregard what he want in order to keep self-centered Sheldon happy, I mean why in the heck would Leonard want to spend a couple of days alone with his girlfriend Penny.  Man had only been gone for four months and Sheldon needed to be first on his list of people to spend time with after all 'It's All About Sheldon" and Leonard be darn. We all know that if Sheldon knew Leonard was back and spending time at Penny's apartment he would interrupt them at every turn and they wouldn't have a minute peace from Sheldon.


    As for Sheldon not understanding ----- I don't buy it and if Sheldon can say Penny hurt his feelings he can grasp that Leonard would want to spend some time with Penny.  Finally if Sheldon stop thinking the world revolve around him, he would get a clue that he isn't first on everyone list who to see first or spend time with first.


    I don't think it's about who's first on the list, I think it's about lying - at least, that's what offended Sheldon. There were other ways of doing what Leonard wanted to do. Probably the most obvious one would be to see Sheldon shortly, give him his sailor's cup, and leave Pasadena with Penny for a week or too (which is not something Leonard couldn't afford). (Of course, in such case there wouldn't be so much comedy fuel.)


    The problem with this show is that it is always surrounded around Sheldon and his feelings...


    when Leonad got the oppurtunity to work with Hawking... Sheldon gets jealous and selfishly tries to stop him from going ...and he clearly would have known the implications of the trip ( as this is not something social for sheldon to be oblivious).... but still he gets all the sympathy in the episode ..


    now in this episode... Leonard acts selfishly ..... and sheldon feels betrayed... and again Sheldon gets all the sympathy ....


    so whatever Sheldon does he always gets the sympathy.... so we can never take other characters side...


    Maybe it's because Sheldon is the one most clueless about other people's intentions and desires (as well as those of his own), so it's hard to blame him.


    Penny is Leonard's best friend now. This is something that has changed from the first season. Sheldon is his roommate and a good but annoying friend.


    Sheldon has a brilliant intellect but his social development was neglected and so is essentially socially/emotionally retarded (typically does not act his age socially/emotionally and this has been true in every season). He seems to have no real frame of reference for the adult emotions the others have. I think we have the first instances where he admits to being hurt in these first two episodes.


    When the characters behave more and more "adult", Sheldon ensures the constant presence of the nerd's viewpoint, which is BBT's distinguishing feature (and the one I most like). I admit I prefer this viewpoint to dominate the show, as this makes it different from most other shows (and from everyday reality).

  3. No episodes are dedicated to Shenny shippers. They are all dedicated to comedy.


    We don't know, do we? Sometimes I wonder whether, and in what degree, long TV shows are influenced by the creators' observations on fandom's reactions and desires.


    I think a lot of the "shippers" are constructing stuff in their heads.


    I think that's what shipping it's all about: planting a new story in the soil of the original one and watching it grow - or not. And if there's no growth, the new story becomes an AU of a sort. I don't suppose all that process has much to do with the intention of the creators of the original, but then every story, once published, begins a life on its own.


    I think Mrs. Davis was used to give Raj someone to interact with in this episode. While some story arcs sort of exist in TBBT the writers have indicated they don't have big plans off into the future. They essentially write as they go.


    OK, I think you're right, it's a sitcom after all.

  4. When it comes to Leonard's decision to hide his return from Sheldon, I side with the anti-deception team: Sheldon is Leonard's best friend, Leonard shouldn't have done it to him (especially that he knew that Sheldon would probably not understand). Anyway, I prefer the old dynamics
    "Sheldon, Leonard and other nerds vs. the rest of the world (which they try to understand and maybe befriend)" and not "grown-up Leonard and Penny vs. childish Sheldon" (the latter pattern is OK from time to time, but I wouldn't like it to dominate the dynamics of the relations between the main trio).


    I didn't like the estrogen thread, especially the scene between Raj and Howard - maybe because I don't like the homosexual allusions in the portrayal of their relation in general.


    A minor minus: Sheldon' conversation with Stuart about Leonard's welcome-home gift is too similar to the one between Sheldon and Alex about the gift for Amy.

  5. The episode was obviously dedicated to Shenny shippers. That's not my cup of tea, but I understand it floats many boats.


    I liked the conversation on astronomers and dung beetles, all dialogues between Amy and Bernadette, and the interaction between Raj and Mrs. Davis. It seems to me that Mrs. Davis slowly becomes the type of "only sane woman" in the academic environment, and the show was very much in need of such a character, as it highlights the absurdity associated with the main characters. On the other hand, her "grown-up" viewpoint prompts the audience to see them as very childish and maybe a little bit pathetic, and I'm not sure whether it's a good thing.


    I agree that Sheldon suddenly became more emotional (or at least more willing to express his emotions). I'm wondering whether this is a part of setting the stage for a new turn of events in Shamy's arc?

  6. From the scene, it seemed to me that it was implied they were following some familiar rules, not something invented by Sheldon on the spur of the moment. At times, Amy looked at the dice to check the number, so it appeared that she also knew the number/body-part correlations.

    Yes, but every time she waited for Sheldon to tell her what the outcome was - and she never rolled to check how her own actions turned out. Also, it is implied that much time has passed between "caressing her nose" and "nibbling her 14", so in the end she might have managed to learn by induction which number corresponds to which body part. Suddenly, option (3) seems more convincing to me now. :)


    Now I've noticed that Sheldon acted as a DM in this scene, not only rolling the dice every time but also deciding when a roll is needed.

  7. I took it for granted that in the bedroom scene Sheldon used combat rules for determining which body part will be hit, but modified it offhand for, erm, non-combat purposes - but your comments made me rethink it and do a little research on the net.


    Now, I am no expert on D&D, but the DM's screen Howard used seems to be this one: https://www.wizards.com/global/images/dnd_products_dndacc_218307400_pic3_en.jpg (cover) - http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61yj61vWvOL.Image._.jpg (tables inside), which means they were playing 4th edition, where there is no rule for called shots (attempting to hit a particular body part during the combat). So, I see the following possibilities:


    1. Sheldon may have used some optional rule introduced by Leonard or Howard, similar to this one: http://www.candlekeep.com/library/articles/damage.htm and probably pertaining to combat in the first place. (I remember that such rule was a part of the combat system when I was GMing the 1st edition of Warhammer, so it would not be a novelty for many DMs.)


    2. He may have used an ordinary roll, assigning 'critical' body parts (not a nose ;) ) to the 'critical hit' effect. (Rolling to check whether an erotic action succeeded seems a little redundant, but if both Sheldon's elf and Amy's half-orc are completely unexperienced in this area, it may be justified ;) ).


    3. He may have invented a new rule on the spot - which is probably the most promising option for all Shamy fans, as it would suggest he intentionally used the game as a gentle way of answering Amy's concerns and not just played 'by the book' not to ruin the game  :) .


    Anyway, I think there are ways to interpret is as consistent. Any experts on 4th edition here to correct me?

  8. OK, many people said how great the bedroom scene was, so I don't need to repeat it... The dynamics between the characters has been rendered perfectly, the tension has (partially) been resolved, Sheldon was ambiguous as always in this kind of situations - and Amy, as BazingaFan said, stole the show. Coming up with the solution like that was surprisingly sensitive of Sheldon (especially remembering his behaviour towards Amy in the last couple of episodes) and adds some fuel to the discussion on will they or won't they. I really like they way Mayim Bialik acts out Amy's newly acquired 'bitterness' - e.g. her half-smile after Sheldon says 'It's only been three years, here we are in bed together'. I say this is the best UST in a TV-series since X-Files.


    But I think that the meeting of Raj and Lucy was also really well done and, if it was not for the bedroom scene, would be intensively discussed by all the BBT shippers. Lucy's escape through the window, the kiss, the dialogues... And I loved Kate Micucci's face after she said "Oh thanks, I like them too".


    And the epic story of Amy's adventure at the airport - wonderfully told by Bialik, and makes me identify with Amy more and more.

  9. OK, I was right: competing for tenure cannot be really funny. (Maybe I think so because I'm a PhD student dreaming about full-time university job in the company of people with which I'm not conflicted?) The episode told us a lot about the characters' personalities and motivations, but, as a result, they suddenly became less likeable - especially Penny (scorning Amy) and Howard (antagonizing everyone just for the fun of it). Is it only me or they recently become more and more adult, in the negative sense of the word? Those coctail parties!


    I agree that Sheldon is beginning to cross the line between inconsideration and rudeness in his behaviour towards Amy (even if he doesn't realize it in the slightest). I wouldn't be surprised if the writers introduced some other man interested in her to give Sheldon reasons to become more committed - like it was with Stuart. Nonetheless, I shuddered at Amy's comment on "buying a house and starting a family". I would strongly prefer the family vs. career dilemma to be absent from Shamy relationship (especially that it seems unavoidable in Howardette). I'm not sure why, but I find love-and-sex-driven scientist Amy more believable and more interesting as a character than a family-oriented Amy admiring a scientist.


    Not that I disliked the episode. I liked Amy's comment in the end ("Well, you'll always be an academic success, but... I seriously question whether you'll make any more friends."), I liked meercats and "biguous", and Ms. Davies' common sense contrasted with the group's eccentricity - and Amy's newly acquired snarkiness. And the chainsaw.

  10. I'm not sure about fighting for tenure as a theme for an episode. Such things are just so... not funny.


    If only one of the friends gets to be tenured, it should be Sheldon. I'm not saying it because I like him more than other characters (well, OK, he IS my second favourite - just after Amy ;) ) but because it would be consistent with his portrayal as a complete genius devoid of social skills. It has always been implied than he's the most scientifically distinguished of the four, and a tenure, given that he's still quite young, would simply confirm it. If Raj or Leonard were to be tenured in the episode, it would gravely change the dynamics of the show, where Sheldon is the one totally immersed in science while Leonard attributes more importance to 'real life'. (Though the situation would be slightly different if Leonard or Raj won thanks to any non-intellectual factors.)


    That being said, I think that no one from the group will get tenure in tomorrow's episode. Some older scientist who doesn't even know about their existence will get it instead. :)

  11. 1. Leonard and Penny: there's going to be a crisis in their relationship, likely associated with Alex. Something like: Leonard and Alex meet by accident and drink a cup of coffee together, Penny sees meets them by accident (those accidents!) and feels bad about it but there are no explanations until the beginning of the next season. 


    2. Sheldon and Amy: I agree that Sheldon is going to initiate something physical in the end. The writers are slowly building it, I would be surprised if it was a false lead.


    3. Howard and Bernadette: a major quarrel, maybe? I think it's too early for pregnancy, the writers have some more newly-wed stereotypes to explore. Maybe Mrs. Wolowitz herself will visualize to resolve the problem?


    4. Raj and Lucy: therapy (for Raj or for both of them) sounds likely. In the meantime Lucy is going to display some surprising interests (not necessarily scientific, but unusual). There may be a rivalry between Raj and Stuart about Lucy's attention.

  12. The difference between Leonard and the rest of the guys is that he sincerely tries and they do not (maybe with the exception of Howard, but, well, as a married guy he probably counts as the most successful member of the group) - and that is why he gets laid more often.


    Think about it: Sheldon is asexual or hell-bent on staying chaste (even though he seriously thinks about spreading his genius genes) and Raj avoids the company of ladies because of his selective mutism. They are just not really trying.


    (Amy breaks the rule - she tries really hard and doesn't succeed - but her situation is simply exceptional. Besides, she's a girl, and there's no stereotype about female nerds, so in a way her story is built from scratch.)

  13. I liked the episode, with all the misunderstandings between the characters - especially Howard and Bernadette: if she knew he spent 12 hours working on his Valentine gift to her, she wouldn't be mad at him for the laundry.


    I don't know why everyone is angry at Penny's behaviour. Imagine you go to the restaurant with your boyfriend (who is being a little annoying with his ongoing romance ninja joke) and a pair of married friends (and you're not too enthusiastic about romantic evenings to begin with), then your friends begin to quarrel about an Xbox and THEN you see your former boyfriend proposing to your former friend. That's just too much to take. And if the idea of marriage scares her now, what was she supposed to tell Leonard? Surely "The idea of marriage scares me now" seems better than "Sure, let's marry tomorrow".


    Sheldon behaved jerkishly, but it's not his fault, he just can't help being Sheldon. However, I just pity Alex - she could work in Fermilab, but she thought being Sheldon's assistant will serve her scientific development better. Well...


    I liked the introduction of Lucy, and I'm curious about the development of her relation with Raj. It would be nice if she turned out to be much into fantasy/SF and less into science, as that would make her an exception among the girls in the show. All that assuming that she will become at least a recurring character, about which nothing can be said as things stand.

  14. OK, it's better to say Sheldon behaves sexist at times, towards ALL women without any specific focus on any, with or without PhD :) - which sometimes has unfortunate intellectual implications. I agree it's a result of his upbringing (Texas being strongly associated with conservatism in the series) mixed with his biological/medical knowledge. Still, I don't like it, even though I can see the comic power of it.

  15. Spook: you're right, Sheldon respects Amy and Beverly (I think Bernadette's scientific aspect is not visible enough to let us decide whether it includes her or not) as well as the female guest professor (AFAIR Prof. Plimpton?) from one of the past seasons. On the other hand, he really has had attitude toward Alex and Ramona Nowitzki, but this can be seen as an example of his usual self-importance. Maybe I should've said he has a problem with women and intellect rather than with women intellectuals. Proofs:


    1. In the first season he told Leslie women's place is at home and not in the lab more than once.


    2. He often remarks that women are somehow less rational, more emotional and more focused on sex (he even said this to Amy, though I can't recall the occasion). Isn't "Your ovaries are squirting so much goofy juice into your brains you don't even know which way is up" a perfect example?

  16. I find my thoughts after watching the episode very different from what I read above :) :


    1. Maybe it's because I'm not from the States and different countries have different customs, but... Wasn't Alex's complaint, Sheldon's remarks about his friends and the way they were dealt with by Human Resources Department much exaggerated? I mean, Sheldon did not harassed Alex sexually (he was just sexist, which is a different matter), nor did Howard by building a sex robot (though he used the university's resources to do it, so technically he's guilty of defraudation). The only crime of Leonard and Raj was to speak about their own sexual life and desires in more or less public place. Can you really be sent to a compulsory sexual harrassment course by university's authorities for such things in USA? (On the other hand, I'm surprised that they let Sheldon use Alex for such things as Sheldon After Dark project - it seems to me he can tell her to do anything and everything and she's obligated to obey.) It seems to me that even talking about menstruation or STDs (if done by men) is considered sexual harrassment according to the laws at the university where Sheldon and Leonard work. Sheldon's sexist remarks to Alex and the HRD lady (about their "slavery to their urgers" and "currently menstruating") were simply rude, but they were not sexual harrassment and did not deserve to be treated so seriously. (In this light, I consider Sheldon's making Alex to do the course in his stead a clever and appropriate answer.) Would you agree?


    2. All that being said - the only trait of Sheldon which I really dislike is his attitude towards women intellectuals (luckily for Amy, he apparently considers her to be an exception). And that's why I miss Leslie Winkle, who liked to show him he's WRONG :) .

  17. My wishes for the 6th season:

    - more: science, SF (Star Trek!), comic book store.

    - a lot of: Amy Farrah Fowler (but PLEASE, without lesbian undertones - if she's into Sheldon, let her be into him).

    - at least a little bit of: Leslie Winkle. It would be nice to know how she's doing.

    - less: distinct storylines about girls as a group.

    - an acting role for Penny.

    - a romantic interest for Raj (not necessarily a regular girlfriend). I would say that his character is in a large need of development).

  18. Great ending. No annoying cliffhangers, both science and popculture present, everything in-character on everyone's side. Very emotional (especially the star necklace scene) but not sentimental, and overall really nice.

    My favourite moment: Amy's look at Sheldon when he took her by the hand at the moment of the spaceship's start. Maybe I liked it so much only because I like the characters, but hey, who'd expected THAT of him? Second prize: Howard's conversation with the lady in the town hall. 'Yeah, me two. See you there.' :D

  19. Did anyone notice that Sheldon looked considerably buff compared to his usual extremely lean/skinny structure? (may be intentional to suppliment the new romantic angle of the character).

    Skinny is beautiful. Period. And this is not only my opinion, but also the belief shared by an authority on how the mind works - Amy Farrah Fowler, PhD :icon_cool:

  20. I miss Leslie Winkle and would be happy to see her in an episode, but not on the cost of cutting Amy's part. They are two faces of nerdy girl and I would like both of them to remain in the show - but I guess this is impossible, so for the time being I am looking forward for the next shiny trinkets :)

  21. Liked the episode.

    This was actually the first time when I felt sympathy towards Bernadette. I mean, I didn't dislike her, but her moments of sweet outnumbered those of snark so much that it usually made me forget she's at least as intelligent as Howard - and, what is more important, she seemed to me utterly conservative, always-doing-what-girls-always-do. Now it turns up she doesn't like children. IMO it makes her more of a geek and a human being. (Maybe I'm saying it only because I don't like children myself. Hope not :) )

    And I really liked the Shamy part, especially Sheldon's rant about carbon in the jewellery shop (reminds me of some fragments of 'Blindsight' by Peter Watts). And even though I can see inconsistence in Amy's behaviour, I think it's completely coherent from a psychological point of view: she is a neuroscientist (so she knows bribing one's girlfried with jewellery after a fight is silly) but she's also a first-time girlfriend (so having been given a tiara from her boyfriend makes her feel like a princess - probably the first time in her life). Sad and funny at the same time, as usual when Amy comes into view - I think that is why I like her so much as a character.

    If it comes to details, I didn't like the conversations between Howard and Raj (maybe the writers should consider making a special Raj episode to highlight his positive features, as too often he is shown as simply stupid and annoying). But on the bright side - there was more geekery than is usual for the 5th season (although not much science, apart from Sheldon's disgust with the idea of magic tricks as a way of entertaining children - so Sheldoney).

  22. I am wondering why is it so important whether she's plain or not (IMO she isn't, but I'm a straight girl and a Martian one, so what do I know ;) ). When a new male character is introduced, people rarely complain that they are 'too ugly', even if they are drifting towards becoming a romantic match for a main character. I think Amy's lack of sex appeal (in comparison to Penny and Bernie) stems from her style, which says a lot about her personality. There's a comical contrast between her conservative outfits and her liberal outlook. (Remember the episode in which Leslie changed her mind and decided to establish a family? When she visited Leonard to discuss the matter, she was dressed in a similar way to Amy's usual style.)

    And I feel obligated to repeat: Amy Farrah Fowler is my favourite female character of the show and I am opposed to any attempts of cutting her :) !

  23. IMO: the best episode in the 5th season so far.

    First, there were geeky jokes, both scientific (Amy's research) and popcultural (Death Star made of Lego). Has anyone noticed that Sheldon quoted 'Alice in Wonderland' - the fragment with a linguistic joke in it?

    Second, the group dynamics was great. And the excellent scene with Amy and Sheldon (sex negotiations as Spock-like discussion!)...

  24. Priya is like Diana Fowley in The X-Files: she is a negative character who serves the purpose of showing positive characters from more perspectives. I don't like her, but I think she helps me to understand Penny and Leonard better :)

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