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BangerMain

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  1. I believe Leonard's sabotage attempt was spur of the moment. This is not something that he thought out in advance. I'm thinking that Leonard may have been surprised that Penny said to keep going to Las Vegas. I'm also betting that they are in for some drama in the season opener. Penny will be more pissed at the sabotage attempt of the elopement then she will be of his being kissed two years ago by some girl he will never see again. This is long lasting not some kiss from the past. The fact is Leonard had no problem not telling Penny that a woman he worked with, Alex, had asked him on a date AFTER she had met Penny. That was a far more dangerous incident than this non-issue on the boat. Leonard was going to see Alex every day, he has no contact with the "boat kisser". This whole thing can allow them to delay the wedding to at least mid-season and hopefully not longer. If Leonard's "mental infidelity" is an attempt to delay things until he feels more secure at least he does not look like a complete idiot.
  2. After viewing the finale a second time, I think I understand what the writers were trying to do with Leonard's "confession" during the drive to Las Vegas. The keys are in two places in the episode. - Leonard agreed with Penny that they were in no hurry to get married. They could take 50 years for all he cared. He did seem to modify this by asking if they could set a date and agree on the frame work for a ceremony. That's all he wanted. - As they were discussing their mental preparation for their marriage on the way to Vegas, he drops the bombshell about his being kissed by a woman two years ago and his stopping it. The key is what the writers give as Penny's response: Why would he bring up something so trivial, yet potentially explosive, at this moment? Is he purposely trying to sabotage the wedding? I believe the answer is "Yes". When you look back on the trail of evidence this season, the relationship balance of Leonard and Penny has changed drastically. Penny says as much herself when she gives back the money to Leonard for the car he brought her in season 7. She has stated that this makes Leonard more insecure now that he is no longer a key means for her subsistence. During this season, Penny has: - kept from Leonard that she hides her engagement ring when she goes on sales calls, - made far more money than he and has investments that he does not know about. - embarrassed Leonard on a podcast with Will Wheaton that she will guide her career changes even if Leonard wants input. - goes to Sheldon for advise on going to an audition, while mocking Leonard's likely response. I want to emphasized that at no time has Penny shown the slightest wavering in her love for Leonard. It's just that he is becoming more marginalized in her life. Penny has always had "control issues" in their relationship, as Leonard likes to say. She pretty much runs it since she knows that Leonard has her as the center of his life. As she said this season, "You being blindly infatuated with me was the rock we were building this relationship on". This season is different from all the others for L/P. When Leonard first saw her in the pilot, she was this beautiful, 21 year old, who had been broken by a bad relationship and was trying to live by herself in the apartment next door. Within an hour of meeting her Leonard was in love, letting her take a bath in his apartment and going out on a dangerous quest to retrieve her TV set from her giant ex-boyfriend. That set the pattern for their relationship, Leonard was the one who did what was needed to keep her whole: feed her, tech support and free WiFi, pay for gas, or rent. He would get her out of an accidental marriage and pay for a car to pursue a career path he knew was folly. It was always the same; Penny messes up and Leonard fixes it. Now Penny does not need Leonard to support her life anymore and I believe he finds that frighting. He IS sabotaging the elopement. I think he want the marriage to be when things are more in balance. But before this season, Leonard was the one who put her on that pedestal and maintained it.
  3. It was almost as if the producers decided that at the beginning of season 8: "Leonard is developing too quickly". They got a three season pick-up so they didn't just slow Leonard's growth down, they put him in reverse. Instead of being the Alpha male of the group, the center of all social activity as was established in season 4, he became this whining omega man. Instead of deferring to Penny to keep her happy, he is subservient in almost every way. The writing of Leonard this season made me wonder if the writers were still aware of the character's personal history. Where was the Leonard who: * three times confronted Kurt for Penny * Kicked Sheldon off his App development project and defied him to present their joint paper * called out Penny for ruining his special Valentine's Day dinner for her * correctly predicted Penny's heart break for trying to be a full time actress, yet bought her a car so she could try anyway There are so many more examples of Leonard being wise and honorable and pragmatic, yet in the season 8 finale he does something that is so completely brain-dead you wonder if he remembers what he did yesterday much less last year. The only thing I can think is that the writers determined that this was Sheldon and Amy's season and Leonard would have to mark time circling around them to give them some room. There are two more season (most likely three) so Leonard can catch up to where he was later in the series run.
  4. If Leonard was truly feeling guilty about the kiss he would have brought it up immediately, as we saw when he wanted to date Alice, the comic book artist. He went to Penny first (his true love) and then told Priya (his then current girl friend). Leonard had feelings for Alice and thought of him self as a "Good Guy" and wanted to have a clear heart. When Alex hit on him he was happy as could be but he felt zero need to tell Penny. Why bother? Alex meant nothing to him and was no threat to his releationship with the mother of his future "smart and beautiful" babies. He saw that Penny still reacted badly when she found out about it. Penny never wants anything to keep Leonard's attention away from her. So why would Leonard tell Penny about the kiss on the boat from 2 years ago? Unlike Alex, this was some woman he most likely will never see again. It meant nothing to him and he knows that it could possibly piss Penny off. He is about to get to the finish line of the great dream of his life, why endanger this now? Penny had every right to ask him if he was trying to sabotage the elopement. This was so totally out of the character's history and nonsensical for Leonard. This was done only to make a cliffhanger for the Lenny. Not well thought out.
  5. This finale seemed to want to address most of the fan complaints about season 8. - Raj has been uncomfortable with Emily all season and there appeared to be no way he would have the confidence to actually break up with her. - Howard and Bernie finally tried to put Stuart out. - Leonard and Penny decided to address the lack of wedding planning since their engagement. - Amy ran out of patience with Sheldon. Of the four threads the L/P "cliffhanger" was so weak that the writers correctly had Penny ask Leonard why he would bring up such a meaningless thing now. It did seem, like she stated, as if he wanted to sabotage their wedding.
  6. I went to the episode thread on the other site and the post-episode responders (item's #19 - 36) only had one comment (item #31) that was negative and another (item #20) who commented that this was not their favorite eps of the season but it was still funny in places. The rest were very positive as you would expect from the happiest TBBT fans on the web.
  7. Now that's more like it! This was one of the strongest episodes of the season. Classic geek activities, great interaction between Raj and his parents and finally a strong Leonard sequence. His speech to the High School class was brilliant. Finally, we get to see "Team Hofstatler" again with Penny saving the day for her guy.
  8. If Leonard was truly feeling guilty about the kiss he would have brought it up immediately as we saw when he wanted to date Alice, the comic book artist. He went to Penny first (his true love) and then told Priya (his then current girl friend). Leonard had feelings for Alice and thought of him self as a "Good Guy" and wanted to have a clear heart. When Alex hit on him he was happy as could be but he felt zero need to tell Penny. Why bother? Alex meant nothing to him and was no threat to his releationship with the mother of his future "smart and beautiful" babies. He saw that Penny still reacted badly when she found out about it. Penny never wants anything to keep Leonard's attention away from her. So why would Leonard tell Penny about the kiss on the boat? It meant nothing to him and he knows that could possibly piss her off. He is about to get to the finish line of the great dream of his life, why endanger this now? This was done only to make a cliffhanger for the Lenny. Not well thought out.
  9. The characterization of Sheldon being inspired by Nikola Tesla has been discussed in this Big Bang Theory forum before, there was a whole thread about it: There is also a video about the picture of Tesla in Apt 4A: When the Sheldon character was being designed the writers seemed to have opened a bio of Tesla and began pulling out entries. - Tesla fell in love with a bird, just like Sheldon's did with "Lovey-Dovey". He wrote about her, "I loved that pigeon as a man loves a woman, and she loved me. As long as I had her, there was a purpose to my life." - He was a germaphope who did not like to be touched. He was convinced others would infect him if they got too close. - Tesla had a thing about the number three. He washed his hands three times in a row. He would not enter a building until he walked around it three times. Glad the writers translated that into the "knock three times,call the persons name and perform that series three times" for Sheldon. Sheldon would spend the whole episode entering Penny's apartment with Tesla's ritual. Like Sheldon, Tesla had a napkin pattern for eating; 18 napkins (a multiple of three), Sheldon's is more reasonable. - He believed that superior people only should reproduce, like Sheldon wanting to have a super (Test tube) baby with Amy. He wrote: "The trend of opinion among eugenists is that we must make marriage more difficult. Certainly no one who is not a desirable parent should be permitted to produce progeny. A century from now it will no more occur to a normal person to mate with a person eugenically unfit than to marry a habitual criminal." - Tesla's closes friends were Robert Underwood Johnson and his wife Katherine, a beautiful blond who fawned over Tesla as if he was one of her children. She made sure he ate and got enough rest and interacted with people socially. They had an intense platonic relationship if their "love" letters are any indication. This would have seen strange were it not for the fact that her husband Robert (who was already Tesla's primary friend) was just as involved. When Katherine died, she charged Robert to continue to look after Tesla. There is a lovely artist picture on the 'net of Robert, Katherine and Tesla sitting in chairs toasting each other, with milk of course. - Famously, there was the celibate thing, though he regretted this in later life. Several women made runs at him but none succeeded. Being 6'2" tall and strikingly handsome made him maddeningly attractive but frustrating for females of the time. And his cavalier attitude about money cost him millions in patent royalties. He was from a family of priests who were tied to the Serbian Orthodox church but he was not particular religious.
  10. I'm convinced that she will get the part and have to leave for the summer to film "Clerks III". The fact that she says that she blew the audition makes me feel Kevin Smith will select her anyway. He pretty much said he loved her work in "Serial Apepist"
  11. That's the cool thing about "The Lollipop Guild". When I want to get good vibes all the time, I go there.
  12. But after 8 years of being socially clueless, self-centered and indifferent to others feelings and opinions, why would Penny want to go to the "Alien Robot" for life choice advice? And then call him a wise man. You could say she wanted to get fed back an answer that she already was going to act on but then why go to Sheldon at all? Did she expect to get support from Sheldon? Remember in last season when she quit her job and Sheldon said he supported her because they were both "dreamers"? When Penny's car died and she was crying to Leonard in the hallway, Sheldon came out and demanded that Leonard come back to continued their game despite Penny's angry response. Of course, it was Leonard who actually provided her with the support for her acting career, even though he correctly surmised it was folly. What made the internal logic of this episode so strange is it went against all the truisms that TBBT has built up over the seasons. Sheldon has no clue about proper social interactions. As for giving career advice, this is the man who had a nervous breakdown and ran away from home when he was made to change his field of study. Being an "Alpha Male"? Part of his breakdown was the thought of having to live without Leonard. The show has on several occasions, in the past, shown that the group revolves around Leonard. Sheldon's idea of leadership is to pout and yell like a 5 year old until his friends can't take it anymore and do things his way. The Alpha Male leads from proven strength and decisiveness in resolving challenges. Sheldon can't even make a decision on what kind of video game system to buy. He has admitted on at least three occasions that he is a physical coward. He once hid behind Amy when he thought Howard was going to attack him. It was little Leonard who confronted Penny's brute of an ex-boyfriend more than once, while Sheldon admitted he would be less than useless in a fight. He is petrified at the thought of having sex with a woman. That's about it for the standard "Alpha Male" list
  13. So, we are supposed to believe that after nearly 8 years of being around him, Penny goes to Sheldon for life advice? Sheldon, who can't drive a car or live by himself or have a normal relationship with a female, is now an "Alpha" Male? Wow, I can see why the taping was so long and full of rewrites.
  14. Indeed she is. Christine Baranski got an Emmy nomination for that episode. In her career she has won an Emmy and two Tony awards.
  15. Except the Big Bang Theory distorts the incomes of the characters almost beyond recognition to the real world. This is a fantasy and they have the characters make what ever they want them to make to further the plot points. The show tries to be funny, not factual. Over the last few years in this forum several discussions have been about how the rather arbitrary incomes of each character is determine quite often by the needs of the show. Even the Sets! - Leonard is a noted physicist at one of the foremost research institutions on earth. He has won awards, published exciting papers, been written up in science journals, interviewed on media, was selected by Stephen Hawkins to do postulate evaluation. He is long past the post doc phase and is on the tenure track. In real life he is making over 100K a year at Cal Tech. Yet we are to believe that he chooses to live with his irritating roommate in a fourth floor walk-up, who dampens his relationship with the only person that he lives for. Of course, he is loyal to Sheldon, who he describes as "Broken". Any other man in the universe would have been long gone to his own place just so he could be with his future wife when ever he wanted to, not accepting a one night a week allowance from his roommate. It so utterly absurd that it is funny. A guy with a six figure income and a hot woman living in bliss is not funny. - Sheldon is also an heralded scientist. But he cares so little for money he does not cash paychecks, gives two thousand dollars that he finds just lying around in his office desk to his assistant for gifts for his girl friend. Yet this man needs a roommate just to be his personal caddy and to drive him where ever he needs to go. Still, the role model for Sheldon, Nikola Tesla, had pretty much the same attitude about money (at least till the end of life) and he also had his own Leonard and Penny: Robert and Katherine Johnson. So Sheldon is somewhat possible. - Penny's financial history on the show is all over the map. Penny started out as a 21 year old, minimum wage waitress who was so bad at her job she could not supplement her income much with tips. She had been living with her old boyfriend, Kurt, until she left without even her TV. Yet she was able to furnish an apartment, pay for acting lessons and feed a very large new shoes addictions. Yet, Leonard apparently could not afford a one bedroom apartment, like Penny's. He could afford to subsidize her life even when he was getting nothing for it. Now Penny, without education and little training, is now suppose to be earning twice Leonard's income in only a few months on the job. Those of us who have been successful technical salespersons know you can make a lot of money at times with a hot product but not that fast. But what is Leonard's income? if he's making 45K a year it could be possible. That would explain why he's still with Sheldon but if he's making that little, he's an idiot. Or a holy man for science. But if Penny is making that kind of cash, why is she living in a one bedroom apartment without an elevator to the fourth floor? The answer, of course, is they want to keep that set that the fans consider IS TBBT. - The most distorted arrangement financially is Howard and Bernadette. The average salary for an Aerospace Engineer is $95,000 a year. But Howard is not average. He has a master's from MIT. He has worked with JPL. He is NASA's "go to" guy for the Mar's rover, International Space Station and deep space probes. They even sent him to space. This is a guy with patents and fame. Yet this is the same guy who lived with his mother and could not afford to buy a car until season 6. His wife got her Doctorate and went to work for Big Pharma and in her first year declared Howard was making peanuts compared to her. She was not in sales, but a research developer. The further you are from the source of the money, the smaller your money. A Phd Microbiologist is making about 60K in their first year. Why? Because the corporation would consider them as overhead. They can't contribute much to a new drug going to market and a new drug would not show a payback for years Let's not get into how Howard's mother was able to afford the house and living expense after Howard's father left. There was never any mention that he paid anything in child support or alimony and Mrs W never seemed to work. And she financed Stuart's new comic book store. Where did that money come from? And Raj's father's wealth. Raj said his grandfather lived is a tiny house so there does not appear to be great wealth in the family. How is a Doctor in India able to send BMW's to his son in the US or a monthly amount to subsidize a rather spoiled life style? He would be very well to do in India because the cost of living is so much less. But turn those Rupees to Dollars and it does not go far. One Rupee is worth 1.6 cents. What clientele does a gynecologist in New Delhi have to have that can pay him tens of thousands of Rupees for a visit? The answer to all this is the writer's have invented a world that has little to do with real life and everything to do with setting up funny situations for comedy. It's not meant to make sense in the world we live. They are not the first to do this. "Friends" village apartments, anyone? They explained in the last episode that the primary set was rent controlled after a lot of mocking was heard over the years. Remember Lois Lane's apartment in the first Superman movie? I'm sure others can find better examples. I have long since learned to not sweat the details in TBBT about money. It would drive you crazy and you would miss all the fun.
  16. This episode has brought up an old discussion on this forum. The income of the characters has little correlation to their real world equevilents. The fact is the guys in real life would make far more than what is implied but that would make the story lines much more incongreous for the writers.
  17. Ok. This old salesman will just say, It was entertaining.
  18. He would. TBBT does not relate to the real world at all for the salaries of the guys. A tenure track Physicist at Cal Tech would make between 90K to 114K with Leonard credentials. When he got tenure professor he would make nearly 180K. You can google these figures. TBBT has always played fast and loose with the incomes of the characters (especially Howard, a world class aeronautical engineer!!) in order to keep them in the same places that they started. If Leonard really made what an acclaimed scientist at Cal Tech would really get, he and Penny would not be living in fourth floor walk-up apartments suffering the unintentional (sometimes) indignities of Sheldon.
  19. The problem is her making twice Leonard's salary and accumulating enough to have a financial adviser in 7 months. First, as I stated, she does not have the educational accomplishment (almost all Pharma reps have at least a Bachelors degree). This assumes Penny is some sort of sales savant who is recognized as such by the sales manager despite her having only a high school education and appearing like a complete dope in her interview. Second, she would be given a "rookie territory", any patch that can generate that kind of quota return will be in the grasps of a veteran. Third, if she somehow was able to get such a lucrative territory, what kind of sales plan pays out that kind of cash in only two quarters of a fiscal year? And that assumes she had no probationary period.
  20. Ah yes. Another journey down the rabbit hole that is economics on TBBT. Penny making twice as much as Leonard and accumulating enough money to need a financial adviser after 7 months on a sales job she had no previous education or training for, is a flight of pure fantasy. Having spent considerable time in my life in technical marketing, I was falling over laughing at the impossibility of the whole thing. Especially given Penny's previous indifference to formal academics. No amount of "inadvertent" boob flashing can overcome that. I guess they are setting up for Penny to ditch the pharmaceutical sales rep job to try her hand at acting again. That would show her giving up a great deal to pursue her real passion.
  21. Penny kissed him on the cheek and then "she" wiped his skin just like a good mommy should.
  22. He was bending over backwards trying not to offend by putting in that phase. I would like to believe he was laughing when he wrote it.
  23. This episode accomplished, for the producers anyway, what they have said for years: Sheldon and Penny have a sibling relationship. Or even more creepily, mother/son. Why they found the need to drive this point home after 8 years is debatable. Maybe part of the reason could be found in Chuck Lorre's vanity card at the end (#492). "A sitcom is an extended conversation between writers, actors, directors and the audience. In success, the conversation goes on for years. Pre-internet, the viewers responded simply by watching or not watching. Now their opinions are loud, immediate and fully articulated. And it's great. And it's scary. But it's a real conversation between real people with real feelings. So we all need to choose our words carefully." Chuck and Co. wanted to give some illumination to a certain segment of the Internet fandom about how the creator's interpret and give direction to the actions of the show's characters.
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