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Nogravitasatall

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Posts posted by Nogravitasatall

  1. 2 hours ago, chucky said:

    Be that as it may, he's deserving and in need of that butt kicking. Then it could be explained to him why he got the butt kicking and why more could be coming. 😃

    I’d have been happy if Leonard and Penny had just left him on his own across the corridor, and if Leonard had explained why. The lesson would have lasted longer. But I understand the sentiment.

    Penny also could have ju-jitsued him more by deploying his his mother. It wasn’t to be of course. And there won’t be a reboot. This is over. 

    • Like 2
  2. 20 minutes ago, chucky said:

    You can describe it however you like, to me he was mean, inconsiderate, obnoxious and was in need of a complete ass kicking.

    I know what you mean, but in one framing it’s unclear that he would have understood why he got the beating. :) 

    He had that discussion with his mum about being beaten up by “the neighbour kids”. He thought they felt inferior and threatened by his intellect. His mum knew it wasn’t that, and we laughed when she said it. He just couldn’t perceive it. He’s not aware of the consequences of his actions. Which then raises the question of is it moral to use his difference for humour, when he is unaware of the joke.

    Or he’s just an arsehole and is aware. In which case he deserves some consequences. I do favour that view.  

    They played it both ways. Which maybe was a ethically challenged artistic dodge for the sake of getting a long run.  Artistic or not, probably still dodgy. All the way to the bank.

    • Like 1
  3. 13 hours ago, hokie3457 said:

    For me, Sheldon is/was a bully. Sure he got treated unfairly often, but the “attacks” on him were fir me never quite as venomous as what he rushed out. Demeaning other’s accomplishments and intelligence (even his future wife’s). “Slut-shaming” his best friends love and later wife (and supposedly also his good friend) and at points nearly rooting for the failure of their relationship was and remains an extreme turn-off for me.

    For the sake of learning something from some rebuttal, I’m going to walk out on a limb and say there was a certain moral ambiguity or greyness, or else some crass exploitation at work, by not letting him be responsible for his actions. They let the diagnosis stand at “I’m not crazy, my mother had me tested”. So ok, not crazy. Therefore competent. Therefore open to consequence. 

    I liked him better as homo novus. Or like a less benign Uncle Martin (which was on TV here yesterday - broadcast TV. WTF). The alien observer. As a person, if he’s not conscious of the effect of his choices, is it fair or right to make him the butt of the jokes. If they had labelled him, maybe it would have been morally better. Claim his status. Be a standard bearer.

    Maybe not a 12 season run in that, though.

    As a regular guy, he certainly wasn’t good to his friends; “mad, bad, and dangerous to know” as they say. As a sitcom content generator, obviously awesome.

    • Like 4
  4. 1 hour ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

    It's not really my fandom although I enjoyed most of it. I was never totally fixated on it and I was definitely NOT a teacup speculation person. I liked ensemble plots best, like Raj's scavenger hunt, the parking spot escalation and things like that. It's why I think season six was the best season. But they didn't need a survival strategy because the writers wanted to play with their new toy to the exclusion of all others and to a lot of people it showed. And when they did do something with Penny and Leonard so much of it seemed so stupid!

     

    I was there all along, although I quit for a short time at the end of season one and had to pick what I'd missed back up in the summer. I didn't see the uniqueness of the show at first. I was on the IMDB boards then and it wasn't a good place to be a lot of the time, plus the idea of nerdy guys and a busty blond...yawn. A foreign guy friend who has trouble with girls...yawn. A pervy friends to the nicer guy...yawn. But Sheldon was something I'd never seen before and after a short break the show clicked for me.

     

    ... as a bloke who once went to an Australian comic-con and only later realised he could have passed as Leonard ( except for the hair). And I won’t describe my wife... other than to say she was blonde when I met her.

    Some people don’t like olives and some people like surströmming. It’s a big world. I would argue Sheldon was unique on TV.  Then latterly he became like many other masculine stereotypes. We’ve seen lots of demanding men who exploit the goodwill and needs of those around them. Some even not characters on TV.

    When he decried relationships he was special. Then they changed him to chase the long run. That’s when he lost most of his appeal for me, though it was a gradual process. Later, when I saw him as just petulant, I lost tolerance. But I hung in, hoping for Leonard and Penny to best him. And, if you look at it without considering the accumulated bad acts, it is funny. The season 12 gag with the hot dogs in New York, that I have seen, was chuckle worthy. The unhappy new bride, working around him, not so much. She knew what she was in for. It wasn’t a surprise.

    But it’s all moot now. I’m just kicking through the ashes.

    22 minutes ago, joyceraye said:

    It wasn't until I found this board between seasons eight and nine that I realised there were Lenny and Shamy factions and that they were taken seriously.  It had never occurred to me there was going to be one focal couple, nor that it would be Lenny, considering there were three others.  Lenny'd looked to me over the years since 2007  a typical American-sitcom on-again off-again until-they-were-permanently-on couple ; they were the least strange and the most stable.  Raj's and Sheldon's personality issues inhibited them more than anything Leonard ever suffered from. It was interesting to me to watch them all grow up and meet their other halves and settle down or not as they matured.

    Of all the women's issues Amy's were the most challenging to overcome. And they put her with Sheldon. It's always struck me that if there was an audience sector that was tuning in to see how the pairings were developing, the couple most intriguing would be Shamy but that the others' peculiarities attracted interest in their own ways.

    I can see the appeal of Lenny's relative normality. Here's a tart with a heart who reforms and commits to man who has a brilliant mind and what's more who loves and appreciates her. Here's a man who sets his heart on a woman from the day he first sees her. He looks elsewhere when he thinks his chances with her are over but eventually realises she's still the only one and keeps trying. His persistence pays off and we see him happy for five more years with the woman he wooed and won.

    If Raj hadn't messed about, could he have found happiness ?  That Howard so suddenly reduced his creepiness by 80 % was a big surprise. Did Bernadette copy his mother in order to hang on to him ? What did she see in him in the first place to make her do so ?

    I wonder if any rivalry between fans was intended by the writers and was it just on this board or widespread around the world ? 

    It drives engagement to have teams. Cricket demonstration of batting techniques aren’t riveting at all. I’d say there are many ancillary payoffs to rivalries.

    • Like 4
  5. 11 hours ago, veejay said:

    It also took me a little longer to evaluate this strange decision. But I just classified it as one of the many (in the sense of the show-runners) "tactical ruses".

    I recommend to read the Shamy-threads of earlier days. There you can see how a survival strategy can be built within your own fandom. 😊

    Before I withdrew myself from that thread for the benefit of all - because if you can’t say something nice, then stay on the series thread - I noted the various grasped straws detailed analyses, like the code embedded in the colours of tea cups (but maybe there was one; Howard’s alien pins had a deeper meaning, said a costumer, but I never discovered what) . In the long run it worked out fine for those fans but at the time (2013?) lots of extraordinary claims were made without the requisite extraordinary evidence. That’s fandom, isn’t it?

    • Like 1
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  6. 1 hour ago, Die Zimtzicke said:

    Leonard was ready to kick him out. Penny is the one who said he could stay. I always thought it should have been the other way around, if it had to be at all.

     

    Leonard did accept being Sheldon's go-to guy and very seldom rebelled. He did a few times, but not enough.

     

    I thought this all along and took a lot of flak for it, but it's true. But part of it is, from my perspective, that as large part of the L/P cohort as you put it, were happy with any crumb they got thrown. The smallest thing was latched onto as a hopeful sign, when it was clear to me that Lenny was never going to be the show's focal point. It's one of the reasons i never got deeply into it.

    I think it’s a matter of when you get on board and what you get on board for. It’s a subjective judgement. And rooting for the story to go on when it doesn’t is pretty familiar to me. So many shows I thought were great or interesting died prematurely.  Firefly of course is a prime exemplar of the phenomenon. 

    But people like what they like. Sheldon, to me, became a meaner, but intellectual, Biff Tanner, yet a still a bit of a sook along with it. Not appealing to me. And he initially had Leonard’s back. But that went away. He just took stuff. And Leonard rolled with it. Then Penny tended to take Sheldon’s side. Sucky.

    All done because if they didn’t then the show ended. 

    • Like 4
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  7. 20 minutes ago, snowflake79 said:

    I am one of those Lennys. And I stand by it. :yes:

     

    59 minutes ago, bfm said:

    I'm not sure Lennys were tiny and lacking influence. I think many of us kept watching because we still wanted to see them, and we also kept clinging to hopes that things will get better. Also, I know some Lennys didn't think it was that bad (or thought it wasn't bad at all) and truly enjoyed the later seasons.

    Oh I don’t mean to be rude to the cohort, but we all might have sent “thoughts and prayers”  for the actual effect we had. For one, Sheldon wasn’t smothered. Two, getting married didn’t get Sheldon out of there. And three, well, look.

    Just my opinion. An impression, in the afterglow. :) 

    • Like 5
  8. 4 hours ago, joyceraye said:

    Quite ! I can't believe the apparent lack of preparedness. "Shock horror, what a surprise, the last season contracted-for is the last season after all, whatever shall we write now ? "

    In past possibly-last seasons they'd plodded on for a few weeks during the uncertainty while they were waiting to hear whether there was going to be another contract, promising us they could wrap the whole thing up in one episode if need be. This time they were aware of their position  for once really early on. At worst in August they could have thought up alternative plots in advance for if the series was or wasn't renewed.  But they didn't. Since they were determined to give us that awful episode three regardless, they had months in which to explore Penny's attitude and use Zack for something else other than that episode-wasting, time-consuming rubbish about sperm donation, which wasn't even funny apart from one line, 'Or Penny if it's a girl'.

    It sort of makes you think the well was dry, the seam mined out, the tank was empty. They may have been running on fumes. Season 13 and 14 is unknowable but in this  analysis the signs are not good.

    Also, and it could be just me, but is there some moral greyness around the conclusion, where in fact the coyote did get to eat the roadrunner. Sheldon, for all the harm he caused to others, still got to the top of the greasy pole. Is there a lesson in that? Trample on others, relentlessly and indefatigably until you get to the top? That’s been a through line. Never give up, regardless of cost to those around you.  More commonly, there is a comeuppance for that behaviour at the end of the story. Not this time. Or on balance, is it obvious it’s not behaviour to emulate? 

    Edit: Another view is that the great man needed support to do his great works and overcome his failings, for some greater good. Maybe that too.

    I think they cut the character a lot of slack as they aimed for the long run.  I also think they made the right choice to let the show end. They likely should have gone earlier, when they still had something new to say. But that’s not the business model for these things.

     

    • Like 6
  9. 6 hours ago, MsGreentea said:

    I have no problem with the Nobel being used for laughs.  I thought the handling of the award was pretty respectful (for a comedy).  The only problem is it wasn’t funny enough and the wrong people won.  In my (irrelevant) world Leonard gets Nobel (or at least his team gets an award Sheldon does not).  Amy, if she needs to be in this part of this, gets a high award in her field.  Sheldon is snubbed and has to deal.  He can  always report on Young Sheldon that he eventually got the award.  

    Good points. It was counter to comedic tropes for the comedic irritant to get what they wanted. In this case the coyote got to eat the roadrunner, in a manner of speaking.

    Was the elevation deserved? I’m unsure. And how do people feel about an amateur physicist being included in the honours. I’m just not wrapped up enough in those characters to be thrilled for that either. I prefer your scenario.

    Still it’s been undeniably a commercial success. Kudos for that. It’s a tough business.

    • Like 5
  10. 3 hours ago, shell said:

    Forced?

    Obligated to watch, ancillary to watching Leonard and Penny. Sheldon and Amy were unavoidable.  How’s that?

    Maybe that’s why I can’t be bothered yet to watch s12. There just isn’t enough non-Sheldon and Amy content to compensate.  And the pay-off for the Leonard and Penny story apparently just sucks. A Zack goose chase, regretful Penny who didn’t communicate with Leonard about a pretty major life decision and then a limp, facile and unexplored story about a pregnancy that may as well have been a phantom? Add to that a weird fictional Nobel that is just made-up fantasy that exploits a real award for which real people actually sweat and innovate and have momentous  insights and make actual contributions to human knowledge  that potentially affect the human condition. Exploited for laughs and a season-ending high. 

    Hmmm. 

    • Like 5
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  11. 4 hours ago, bfm said:

    I actually got to the point where I skipped episodes or saw parts of episodes. I never thought it'd get so bad, but it did. If this went on another season or two, and perhaps with a Shamy pregnancy taking center stage, I might have quit watching entirely. 12 seasons and leaving on top is an unbelievable achievement, but would they still be on top in season 14, if they kept going the way they did? 

    Would they still be on top in S14? I don’t know. Would they have kept chasing the money? Very likely, unless the talent decided to go do something else, if they could. Which is what stopped them and why we won’t find out. Parsons pulled the plug. Probably wisely and with maybe some artistic sensibility.

    You, and I, were fatigued by the Shamy Show, but others weren’t. They could have limped on until cancellation. Look at Two and a Half Men. 

    I had trouble coping with married Sheldon and Amy. It was just awful. It couldn’t be offset enough by other plots to make it tolerable. And of course, “tolerable” is what you want in your favourite entertainment. /s

    If even obsessed people like us weren’t swallowing the nonsense, then maybe they would have fallen off a cliff anyway.

     

     

    Edit: “fallen off a cliff” is a colloquialism that implies that performance has fallen dramatically. Say like when a product is completely replaced by another. The sales plummet. The sales graph shows a steep downward movement. Vertically. Like a cliff. This is not to say any literal physical harm befalls anyone. Not throwing anyone off a cliff. :) 

     

    • Like 7
  12. 1 hour ago, bfm said:

    I think they shouldn't have written it even if they had another season or two. It was not true to the characters and their story and it was, to me at least, painful to watch. Unnecessarily painful. More episodes wouldn't have changed that. Mind you, they didn't even make use of the episodes they had. The Zack plot was IMO just whacky and it did nothing to change the situation. The only "progress" happened off screen (and by that I don't mean the actual conception but the mental-emotional processes preceding and following it). As Holland said, the whole thing was in fact done because they planned to have Penny pregnant in the finale and wanted to add a surprise factor. I think if they took their time to think about it more thoroughly, including thinking about past and future episodes (again, not something they're used to because it's simply not their way of working), they may have realized all the problems it would make far outweigh that surprise factor.

    My belief is that they had no strategy beyond using their show for creating as much product that attracted as many eyeballs to screens for as long as possible. The TBBT enterprise did whatever it took, inside their framework, to generate viable content. Whatever worked. And they were hugely successful. Sure, there were different paths they might have taken, but what they did made them category killers.

    In a different environment, where maybe say some weighty personage tweeted at them about how unfairly Leonard was treated and how Sheldon took advantage, things might have gone differently.

     

    • Like 2
  13. 8 hours ago, bfm said:

    IMO the worst season was 12. No other season comes close for me. There may have been a few good moments here and there, and the finale was decent, but, sadly, I mostly disliked it. 

    I found season 8 just kind of boring. And then there was the boat kiss... But that was at the very end. So to me season 8 is just mostly boring. No more than 12 though. There was also the second half of season 10, which I think might have been the low point for Lenny. To make it worse, all the out of the blue arguments there turned out to be completely pointless. I did like most of the first half though, and it got much better in season 11.

    I agree season 6 was great. I also really liked the second half of season 5. There were many classic moments in the first 3, I think season 3 is my favorite among them.

    They ran too long. The Good Place is wrapping at four seasons, because that’s where the story took them. TBBT ran so long it became wallpaper. It was so hermetic that whenever they needed a tot of drama they just punched Leonard and when they wanted to go for feels they went gooey over Sheldon. When I forget to despise Sheldon because of the harm he has caused for so long, I can find it funny, but the Sheldon outrage generator and the  “look at me, look at me” attention devices just became wearying. Audience churn may have accounted for the durability. It’s hard to be good entertainment for so long with the same ingredients being recycled over and over again. I’m guessing they must have churned audience to get their numbers. They certainly aimed to bring in new consumers... given how long they held the focus on a school playground style of romance for Sheldon. 

    And I believe pre-Amy they went for broke, post-Amy they went for for the long run. I feel that’s why 1-3 was zanier and more adult. I conjecture that post Amy they didn’t want to scare off the kids sitting on the couch with their mums.

    Six seasons of 12 episodes each would have been 100% gold. People would have died laughing. But never mind the quality, feel the width. They did an excellent job and they thrived in a tough market. However, imagine it distilled. 

    • Like 5
  14. On 7/27/2019 at 9:07 AM, chucky said:

    True, 12 was a bust until 23/24 pulled their butts out of the fire. Again just MHO!

    I still haven’t bit the bullet. 23/24 are yet unwatched (as are others prior). Holding off for the right time.

    Or hoarding it. Maybe it’s denial. Hehehe.

    Plus the news seems more engaging. Watching western civilisation spiral down the gurgler. Makes Sheldon and his shared sci-fi Nobel seem less pressing.

    • Like 1
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  15. 5 hours ago, chucky said:

    That's so true. Zack was so intelligent lacking, that he was not unlikable.

    Zack was delightful. He was good hearted and sincere  - and dummer than George Cooper ever was. And he was Penny’s first husband, imagine that! 

    Leonard never could catch a break the first time round. It was always a slog. He’s doughty.

     

     

    • Like 1
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  16. 22 hours ago, Itwasdestined said:


    Yeah my dubious online ethics matches my lack of patience in waiting to watch. Channel 9 delays in recent years have not helped. That and FTA Australian TV’s over reliance on shoving reality TV shows down our throats 4-5 days a week.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    Agreed.  I watch the non-commercials and go to the streaming services for series. It’s a revenue death spiral of sorts for local broadcasters and local production. I don’t need the sports channels.  Reality is cheap to make compared to scripted dramas. Hence all those pretty things on islands and beaches somewhere.

    Besides Graham Norton and TBBT I’m not seeing much that has ads. Of course there is YouTube and its frighteningly well targeted commercials. Apparently I haven’t realised that I need to buy a new mattress. Maybe I will now. The ads with the Maori bloke and his Pakeha (?) partner are very choice.  😀

    I’m thinking of binging on S12 once the DVR is full. Maybe I’ll do a series of posts to match the episodes. Just to run and catch up with everyone else.  I’m sure that’s important /s. Also someone has a two week business trip coming and my plan is to cram in as much as I can of series TV in that time. So far it’s all of GoT, Westworld, The Leftovers and S12.

    I wonder if I’ll still be able to use my legs afterwards.

    • Like 4
  17. On 6/19/2019 at 1:46 PM, bfm said:

    What I was saying is that according to the writers themselves it was something they wanted to do, not fan service. 

    I’d suggest that they wanted to do it for the “car wreck” effect. Or alternatively because “it’s the nature of grotesque things that you can’t look away” per Buttigieg in 2019. Or as the blue genie said, “Made you look!”.

    • Like 1
  18. 23 hours ago, Tensor said:

    I know you read a couple of others...😜

    Yeah, I was obsessed. And did read a lot. The problem for me came when all this good stuff written in good faith by good people was totally absent from the show. I kept hoping it would cross pollenate, but where Sheldon was concerned Leonard could never catch a break. 

    I don’t think anyone actually wrote the Hitchcock Rope version where Sheldon is smothered with a pillow and hidden in the apartment in a box by Leonard & Penny  - quite the different sort of finale that’d have been-  but there’s an idea for someone. Two lots of IP to mash-up. 

    And it being TBBT it has to be written funny. Like the  CSI crossover episode written by the Three and a Half Men team. Best line I recall was, after a rubber chicken is extracted from the throat of the victim, Grissom (I think) is asked “What’s that?”. He replied, “A gag”. 

     You’re welcome. :😁

    • Like 2
  19. 6 hours ago, Tensor said:

    While I don’t believe there will be a season 13( too easy for confusion) forum,  there could possibly be an after the show section( Tripper and I haven’t discussed anything yet).  However, that kind of thing(a plot for each episode) could be in one topic, with discussion and plots, or two, one for each,  enabling those that want to avoid it, to avoid it. 

    Yeah, I got confused once, maybe twice...

    17 hours ago, Itwasdestined said:

    There’s always reigniting the classic “ never let them die” perennial arguments over Raj sleeping with Penny, should Penny have cared more when Amy whacked Leonard when Sheldon left on the train and should Lenny have moved out earlier. emoji1787.pngemoji12.png. They never get old...

    I vote for this. Nothing like digging up the dead horse, beating it again and reburying it for a later beating. I still feel strongly about Leonard being pantsed in front of his mum by Penny. And that they didn’t even try with the pillows. Someone should make a list of the horses. 

    But Penny and Raj was fine for Penny, bad for Raj. Just saying...

    4 hours ago, bfm said:

    I like fanfiction, but there was a previous attempt to do a forum fanfiction where each person continues what has been written before and it didn't last long. 

    I read Elliptical Threads, which was so good. Then I read some story about Penny waking up with Sheldon and then sneaking back to Leonard. I was scarred forever*. By both really. Too far from the nominal reality of the show for me. Despite the skills exercised by the writers. So I stopped. Also I wonder about playing with someone else’s IP. It’s an accepted form of homage, I guess. No one gets hurt. Except for *see above. :) 

    • Like 1
  20. 21 hours ago, veejay said:

    Well said. I can also imagine that various aspects of the now complete series development could be alternatively or even re-evaluated from today's personal perspective. In view of the mostly positive experiences here in this forum, it would certainly be an inspiration for us fans to continue some threads of conversation, no matter in which direction or preference. I myself still find it difficult to give up the end of a now long period of joint refreshing squibblings with a wide range of people from all over the world.

    gr_83.gif.1c793f9499ef5af1ace319c7806ccdb5.gif

    🙂

    I’m up for squibbling, when the mood takes me. For instance, we could re-litigate the data corruption by electric can opener. I wasn’t here for that one, but I think it was totally justified. :) 

    • Haha 3
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  21. 19 hours ago, 3ku11 said:

    TBH I am prob going to miss the community around the show, more then the show it self. It really has brought people from all walks of life. Not one person I have ever meet has ever not at least watched one episode of TBBT. I Think that is its legacy, its Diversity. 

    Nicely said. It’s been an experience.

     And belated best wishes for your birthday. 

    Cheers

     

    • Like 5
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