Lionne

Best episode of the season. Actually enjoyed it a lot.

A nice, classic style of TBBT episode. It might not have been earth-shattering plotwise, but it was really nice just to see them all in character and interacting. The girls/guys episodes have always done well, and the groups have great chemistry. For me, the best thing from my point of view were that there some actual quotables from this episode. Funny lines that I enjoyed the delivery on, and can repeat to my own amusement later. And....I have to admit that I enjoyed Bernie being a bit of a bitch in this episode. I mean, I'm sorry, but I have to agree with her - what kind of lunatic goes to McDonald's for fruit? Sheesh! Get the pregnant lady some fries already.

Shamy and the neverending psychodrama of preteen sexual angst. I'm so over it. Just screw each other already and get on with it, and stop all this shirt rending and pearl clutching over sharing a bed and longing looks over your hot, wet, naked and vulnerable post-shower condition and just get it on like rabid weasels in heat. I loathe unnecessary angst like this. On the flip side, bet I know what's coming for Nov sweeps. Bow-chicka-bow-wow. PS. The show has made another leap with sexual connotations and toothbrushes. These writers are really weird about hygiene. PPS. Penny and Leonard change the locks? Oh my God, they are going to end up with 4A, aren't they? I don't think I'm going to be okay with that.

Preach it. Unbelievable how sloppily Raj's individual plot line has been handled. I agree with wow - this show gives him nothing to do and he should run, not walk, for the nearest exit. He's an actor and one of the original 5 characters that built this show, and he's always handled anything the show has thrown at him to the best of his ability. I know it's a lot of money and status to walk away from, but he's an actor and if he wants to actually get to act an interesting and fulfilling role, he should start looking elsewhere.

Sure, but part of that is because they were WRITTEN that way. Even though it's a sitcom, part of its popularity has been because it struck a chord with people. I know NoGav and Tensor enjoy Penny and Leonard because in some ways their relationship reminds them of their own marriages. Or the guy who wrote a blog post about getting into the show over the scene where the boys are going to nerd out over assembling Penny's shelving unit, because that reminded him of himself and his friends. Or the myriad people who have gotten into the show because their SO reminds them a bit of Sheldon. Or the Mom who was arrested by the scene where Penny takes a talkative and oblivious Sheldon to work despite being exhausted, because the dynamic reminded her of herself and her autistic son. The show is a sitcom and is painted in broad strokes, but people have related to the characters and found them real enough that they felt the show was tapping into certain truths. And that's often where true humor lies; speaking or showing a comedic variant on the truth, especially things people are not exactly supposed to say out loud. This is part of why you get some of the lines you do in comedy, and like any comedic material, sometimes it flies and sometimes it doesn't. But the show used to have writing that tapped into some authenticity, and people put aside any suspension of disbelief and got into it, and fell in love with the characters and the show. So you will run into problems when you write scenes for your characters that don't feel authentic. You can write whatever the hell you want, but that doesn't mean everyone is going to buy it. Leonard and Penny can be written as allowing Sheldon to crash their special moment in front of their family, but that doesn't mean that everyone is going to buy that as realistic. Sheldon wasn't in hot water with Leonard or Penny, and the vow renewal was about them, so why his character felt the impetus to declare his love for his special person, Leonard (and Penny was there too, so what the hell), in the middle of that moment is sort of a mystery. It seems reasonable to wonder why Penny and Leonard didn't say, "we love you too, now please sit down and butt the hell out because this isn't about you." Instead they were very welcoming of Sheldon as the third wheel in their relationship, which is something that they sometimes seem okay with, even reliant on, and something that they sometimes seem highly annoyed by. (A few months ago Penny went on anti-anxiety meds over it, for instance.) I think it's actually realistic that they would have conflicted feelings over it, as Sheldon has always had a very strong presence in their lives and even served as a crutch for their relationship from time to time. I think a lot of fans would like to see that crutch fall away, though, especially this deep into the show's run and considering that Lenny are now married and Sheldon has Amy. It's beginning to seem jarring and inorganic, and even annoying, that this dynamic persists despite the underpinnings making no logical sense anymore. Honestly I'm not even really sure how the show wants me to feel about it anymore, because it's a moving target at this point. Some people still buy into it. Other people just don't find it believable anymore. Some people might still find it believable, but that doesn't mean they want to watch it. Especially not now. Personally, I think that I totally buy into how the three leads used to revolve around each other, but particularly with Amy's inclusion and Sheldon's supposed character development or growing up as well as Lenny's engagement and marriage, it's not exactly making sense anymore. And why Sheldon decided then and there was the appropriate moment for his big speech like that seemed illogical and forced. So things can be written a certain way by the show's writers, but that doesn't mean people actually buy it. And the more it seems like it was just a convenient way to write something, or to pick some low-hanging comedic fruit, the more that "the strings are showing" on the puppets.

I think in this episode Sheldon made some stunningly offensive comments, sure. If he was reprimanded, immediately after the incident would get glossed right over as they moved onto something else, because there was just a lot to pack into the episode and they didn't have a lot of time for "people being outraged at sh*t Sheldon says." And I do think he had a few offensive lines that no one directly took issue with. The line about wrinkled up old bags of flesh, something along those lines, and the grossness of the idea of them having sex because they are too old, was really incredibly cruel and vicious. And all people did was drop their jaw or roll their eyes, but he didn't get any comeuppance because he was in the middle of pledging his love to Leonard while Leonard was in the midst of his vow renewal ceremony. (Take heart, Shelnard shippers.) So I don't think that Sheldon actually got reprimanded for everything he was pulling in this episode, I also think the stuff he pulled was ludicrious and simply....I don't know, it's a different and meaner flavor than it used to be. But it's hard really getting into the difference. It's like the show used to be chocolate ice cream, and now it's chocolate mint with a whirl of chocolate chips, and it definitely tastes different but you know you're going to run into a bunch of people screaming "but it's still chocolate!" and treat you like you're splitting hairs so what's the point? And the thing is....Sheldon has been both growing up and getting meaner and getting more childish as the seasons go by, so it's hard to tell the difference in the taste of the flavor anymore, right? You can still put incredibly insulting and mean things in his mouth and those who love him will let him get away with it, and those who hate him will continue to peg him as a jackass. Not going to change how people feel about him now. Besides, a part of it is also that people around him are written as letting him get away with it, and that's just a trope of the sitcom world. Will & Grace is a good example of a show where you really have to wonder why Will and Grace don't clobber Jack and Karen to death for the insulting things they say, or on HIMYM there were times that Lily was truly disgusted by the way Barney treated women, but she would relent because in sitcom world you cannot break up the gang or stop on the slutty sex jokes, even if the character took a woman camping to have sex with her and then abandoned her in the wildness with no car to be attacked by wild cougars. Other characters might gape or snort or roll their eyes, but they are never going to take any concrete, justifiable, normal human action like sever relationships. You can't really do that in sitcoms, because then obviously the family-like dynamics and relationships between your main characters fall apart and you have no show. You have no show without these people interacting, and at a certain point, like when a show has gone on as long as TBBT, I'm not necessarily sure that they care about it making sense anymore. Everyone has gotten so beaten down by Sheldon's antics, and someone on the show needs to be able to make those brutal (but supposedly funny) lines work. So. You know. You get your Sheldons and your Karens and your Barneys, and over the years they go from amusing and beloved characters to some other level of.....something. Still chocolate, but you know they've mixed nuts or honey or something else in there that's making it taste funny. (Or not so funny, as the case maybe.) Sometimes what looks like straight up Flanderization looks like actual character growth to another. If you have to, you can always course correct an episode or so later. You go from Sheldon's over-the-top behavior here to the fact he knows he's controlling and is going to cede some of that control to Amy to make their living experiment work, and you don't know where this guy showed up from but it still tastes something like chocolate. Or maybe Monica's "mocklate" at this point but who knows after so long of the flavor sliding around on you.

Hey....they got in a joke about Penny's brother's new teeth being paid for. That totally makes the whole meth thing believable now. Sure. Anyway, I also wish that this episode had been a whole hour. It felt rushed, and....so many things pushed into it but the overall experience was a little bland. Between Alfred, Beverly and Sheldon's nasty commentary to each other, the overall effective of negativity was hard to overcome by what were some very quick and not particularly memorable new vows. Their original vows were a lot sweeter, and more witty, but I guess I have those to remember for Lenny. Not to mention that Penny's family was infighting as well, so the episode felt mostly like people sniping at each other with dull, uninspired insults. If you want to level insults, at least make them clever and something to laugh at. I didn't laugh once this whole episode. I did smile once, I think. The best for me were Penny and Wyatt's toast to each other. I know it was over their drinking ability but the spirit of it was comedic and sweet. I still love Christine Baranski and she can do no wrong in my eyes; even her facial expressions are hilarious, and I felt that her emotional upheaval was sincere. Albert was married to her for a long time, I have no idea how they were ever compatible or how he doesn't know how to manage her as well as Leonard knows how to manage Sheldon. I guess what I mean is....almost every family has some negative influence, and every single person has flaws, and typically when people come together you learn to not let those things bother you or you handle them maturely and ignore it, not pick fights back. The way Alfred and Beverly picked at each other you'd think they were both toddlers, or still holding onto some feeling for each other and reason to fight, not two adults who had figured out how to reach a certain level of zen around the other. The part about the turkey drowning in the rain was supposed to be funny, but I'm not sure that's really an adequate metaphor for Sheldon, so it kinda fell flat. I thought Simon, as ever, ruled as Howard. Again, he doesn't need a lot to play with, his facial expressions alone are classic. And even Kunal got in some good acting when meeting the Colonel; the look on his face was pretty priceless. Yet at the same time, why the heck did they even need that plot in there to begin with? They had 6 guest stars they were juggling as part of a full small family wedding plot, and I think that all of the guest stars barely got anything to do that really made them screen time stand out. And you had a new character with the Colonel too? You had a limited amount of time, the whole story about the gyroscope has no parallels in the wedding story - why not just wait until the second episode to get started on all that? Why break up the momentum of everything else happening with that random plot line and devote a few more minutes to mine the antics of your talented guest stars? Did Penny's family even have one single line or joke that wasn't about Randall's drug problems and meth dealing? How one-note can you get. I feel if there was more time they might have gotten in some more heartfelt and deeper, more illuminating moments between the characters and their family members, but with so many people and only half an hour they only got to play on the more obvious, surface level beats before skipping on. Penny looked lovely in her dress, as did Amy and Bernadette. The location for the wedding was gorgeous, and the touch with Amy's harp was nice. I thought Sheldon's speech was fairly stupid and redundant; we all know by now how much he loves Leonard and looks at him as a brother, and that he loves Penny too. There was absolutely no need or reason to inject him and his speech here, they should have kept the moment on Alfred and Beverly, and left Sheldon out of it. It's not like he was even apologizing for anything, he just.....wanted to declare his love during their ceremony and inject himself? Like the audience needed the reminder that Sheldon is a third wheel, or the third lead of the show? Totally unnecessary, and all kinds of mawkish. It was supposed to be sappy and touching and sweet, but I just had to roll my eyes at it, especially interjected there in that moment. If they wanted something sweet between the 3 of them they could have done something earlier, in a separate scene. During the wedding vows was just ridiculous; no one does that. Not even Sheldon is so socially inept as to do that. Only I guess he is, because he did, so anyway. Anyway, as Leonard and Penny said, I hope this is the last time they get married, although I would not hate seeing any of the guest stars again in the future when they can have a full episode in which to get to know them better.

For a character that we know has been involved in the meth scene for years, that actor as Penny's brother is the most ridiculous casting ever, and makes light of a huge meth epidemic that's killing off hundreds of thousands in the US. There are currently towns here where drug related deaths are outnumbering deaths by old age and natural causes. And the look of many meth chemists and users is quite distinct, with the notorious "meth mouth", meth scabs, emaciated bodies, and dead eyes the usual giveaways to a meth user. I know that Penny's brother was more of a chemist, so perhaps he was not using so much, but there was a time he had run away from rehab. He's been in jail. And the danger and sheer toxicity of the chemicals used in meth leave their mark too. Having Mr. Golden Haired, innocent looking boy with all his big white horse teeth show up as a longtime, hardcore member of the meth drug scene is just ridiculous, to the point it's offensive towards a very real issue that's crippling America's heartland. Meth has because the #1 problem facing middle America, and is certainly becoming a major problem here in Seattle, where I live, as well. Casting that actor in the role is just a joke, and one in poor taste considering what meth is and what meth does.

Thank you for your compliment, Skull. It's very sweet. I should stop and note that I have noticed a greater degree of thoughtfulness, nuance and maturity to your own posts this year, and I've been impressed by your personal growth. I know we don't always see eye-to-eye, and techniquilly there's nothing on the forum that amuses me more than your creative spelling, but you're a good egg. I mean that sincerely, not condescendingly, by the way. Sorry if it comes off badly in text. For the record, I don't think that the change in the living arrangements is filler. I think it's the most exciting and overdue development that the show has tried in a long time. The writers and producers of this show keep an eye on longevity, annnnnnd, I hate to say it but the huge amount of money they are making off syndication. And the more episodes you can put into syndication the more money you're going to make. Writing for syndication is also different, as there's no guarantee that episodes will be shown chronologically and so it makes sense that they want the show to sort of look and be structured the same episode after episode, and for all issues to be easily wrapped up in one episode. I do think that's partly what's behind the "we don't want to change the DNA of the show" mindset, and why there's been reluctance to change things up significantly. Shaking up the living arrangements is refreshing, especially the way they are going about it, with Sheldon actually desiring something and showing self-awareness, and Amy not being the one constantly pushing things forward. It's so different than usual it's actually shocking to me, and a part of me thinks I shouldn't quibble with it or look a gift horse in the mouth, but another part of me isn't going to be so easy to please. They've built up a lot of nonsensical schlock, especially in the second half of Season 9, and that's a lot of fit under the rug without a lot 'o lumps. Anyway, I feel that the Sheldon and Amy side of this living arrangement swap is interesting and has some teeth to it, but Leonard and Penny's reaction is a little....on the light and frothy side. My hope is that if this does span several episodes and moves into the November sweeps that Leonard and Penny's side in this oncoming change is expanded and given more depth. I think that if the issue of....who gets to have 4A, for instance, would really be a lot of fun, and give Lenny more motivation and more at stake in the plot than just spending the time dancing in their underwear and being snarky. ETA: Sorry but I have to cut off here. Trying to type around a 22 pound viking cat determined to have my lap is not working out. ETA: Should also note here that I'm very happy to see Lenny get a great and sweet wedding, complete with family. Lenny fans held on through a lot, even the first wedding, and after 10 years they deserve this pay off. So congrats on that.

I think that there's been a greenlight given to explore the issue, and the writers are jumping on it with such fervor I wonder how long they've been waiting to push forward. Amy was deliberately sent off to Detriot to put physical distance between her and Sheldon after their first sexual encounter to see what the overall audience reaction would be. I believe Molaro said that in an interview. And the one episode became two, and then there were comments from Johnny and Jim about wanting their characters to move forward but the writers or Chuck talking them out of such nonsense ideas and desires. The quote about not changing the DNA of the show was put out there. The second half of season 9 seemed like inconclusive wheel spinning, with "hey look, Mee Maw!" and karaoke and other distractions that amounted to very little. And they evolved so far they decided to open and end the season the same way - on Lenny getting married, or redoing getting married. It was some pretty weak rehash, and big milestones happened but nothing really changed too much. And my understanding is that ratings slipped a tad at the end there? At this point, I'm curious what the deal is - are the actors pushing for things for their characters? Are the contract negotiations already on? They seemed so confident season 11 would be a go without a hitch, but it sounds more tense and unsure at this point. If the actors are bored or dislike the direction their characters are going, they'll speak up about it if the negotiations look to be in their favor. Do any of them really need more money at this point? So what would motivate them? Is Chuck noting the ratings and willing to freshen things up? Did Molaro sell him on a living arrangements experiment? Did he flat out say he has nothing to write for these characters if there areno plots taking them forward? I have no idea. But the wind is blowing a new direction. We'll have to see how long that lasts, and their track record for holding on with forward momentum in the second half of the season is shaky. So I feel this is a fairly radical shift, and the beginning of a plot line many fans have been talking about for a long, long time, but as Molaro said....they can still get out of this if they don't like it. So I think we just have to wait and see.

In a way this episode sets up a lot of things I've wanted for a long time, and I probably should be much happier about it. I still feel a bit flat, though. It's such a massive shift without build up that it feels jarring. I'm glad Lorre's name is on it, it means he's bought into the decision. Holland, Tara and Dave are my three favorite Shamy writers, so I'm not surprised the characters and their story are written so great when all 3 of them are on the script at the same time. This is the way I Iike Sheldon and Amy to be....but it's just....the timing and sudden shift in direction of the characterization and plot is giving me that good ole TBBT whiplash that I don't think I can quite handle anymore. Once burned, twice shy and all that. Their pacing is still horrendous, and this episode screams: We have been given the green light! This is not a drill! We have the green light, all hands on deck, we might just be moving forward! I repeat, this is not a drill! This follows the pattern of awesome first half of the season, and the 5 weeks that Amy is out of her place makes me wonder if this is a mini-arc that'll go into November sweeps when they split the apartments between the couples. Sheldon seems so forward and happy about it, I highly suspect the writing is already on the wall for how they want it to go. Big question is which couple will get what apartment, and perhaps that is the big plan or surprise for sweeps. Perhaps who gets 4A (which I think they could all afford now) will be settled by an epic couples game night. As for the rest....Lenny and Howardette's plots are a little lame. Howardette's plot is right off the pregnancy checklist, while Lenny have space for their own plot and all they get to do is.....dance? It reminds me a bit of the karaoke last season. Cute and funny, sure, but 12 minutes of a 19 minute episode spent in a tiki bar goofing off and singing? I get why @Chrismo thinks this feels like filler. It's like cotton candy; we all love cotton candy and it's pink and fluffy and sweet and all, but it's not very nutritious or anything. I am really glad to see Sheldon WANT something and do what he needs to do to go after it, though. He's acting like an adult again. I really hope that lasts.

My personal suspicions about Lorre come down to two pretty specific instances: 1) Season 7 - He's absent from Locomotive, where Sheldon kisses Amy and has this huge maturing moment, but immediately after he's right back on Table, where Sheldon revels in his infantile selfishness with his "the baby always wins" line. 2) Season 8 - Chuck vanishes from the scripts for a long hiatus in season 8, when I felt Shamy felt a lot more like their old selves. Which built up to their first sleep over in Fort. Molaro gave an interview saying they had grown closer "and would continue to do so." Immediately after Fort, Chuck was back on season 8's last 3 scripts, including the sudden Shamy break up. It's hard for me to rationalize why Molaro would say Shamy were going to grow closer if he knew a break up was in the works, and right after Fort is when Chuck returns after sitting out 10-11 episodes in a row. (I think? He was all over seasons 6 & 7 but was missing on scripts for a big chunk of 8.) There might be nothing to this as we can't be sure what happens in the writing room, but Chuck has a way of popping up when things have progressed to a certain point to throw a spanner in the works.

I have to agree with Wow that season 1 - 5 with Bill Prady as headwriter have a different flavor than season 6- 9 with Molaro. I know that some people only like seasons 1 - 3, before the girls came along, but I feel like seasons 1 - 5 actually all flow together and are quite consistent for me. It's the show I liked, and I actually think that the whole show reached it's peak and was it's best for season 5. What we have now does seem a jerky mess between Molaro's sentimentality and Chuck's much darker edge. I feel like there hasn't been any ability to gain plot traction or meaning from the show's milestones due to the fact there's some tug-o-war doing on with the show's direction. You can an episode which seems to go in a certain direction and that direction just completely vanishes by the next episode, and maybe or maybe not suddenly pops back up as relevant 10 episodes later, or something very sweet and big happens and the next episode we're doing to undo it all, especially through Sheldon being a psycho hose beast hell child over something. At this point in time, I consider what happens in each episode and where the story seems to be going to depend on who "wins" this week - Molaro or Lorre. As for Lorre, for one thing I think he's got an extremely dark sense of humor. Also, I think that Lorre's true talent is in recognizing and fostering talent, no matter what it takes. He has a long line of shows which are carried by very talented people, some of whom have significant substance abuse problems or mental illness, and I think that part of his problem is when he puts together very talented ensembles of people but doesn't necessarily get out of their way, but interjects over them rather roughshod. The Big Bang Theory was really one of his first shows that critics felt "did not suck," but I wonder how much of that had to do with Bill Prady knowing how to handle him, or at least being willing to handle him for 5 seasons before he basically cut a runner and stepped down. I think that the current TBBT audience is really running on huge fumes of nostalgia for this old-school sitcom format and the first five to seven seasons of this show (Season Seven was a big turning point, a lot of people seemed to quit or vanish after that one, and I think we'll see another drop after Season Nine), and continues to bring in people based on the syndicated episodes of earlier seasons too. As for Season 10, we'll see how it goes, but I'm not seeing a lot of difference from the earlier formula when Lenny renew their vows lovingly one episode, and in the next two Leonard's talking about only his French toast keeping Penny in the marriage, or Penny explaining that she settled for Leonard because he just wore her down. Like wow said, it would seem that Molaro and crew manage to lock Lorre in the basement and get some sweet things accomplished - albeit some seriously cliche sh*t at times - but then Lorre escapes out the bathroom window and is back to demand that every single cast member needs to comment on how hot Penny is, and Amy needs to get her expectations sky high over her relationship with Sheldon only to get cut off at the knees. Because how high onto Cloud 9 Amy can get, only to be brought back to earth with a painful thump is just so darn funny!

True. I mean....there was once a large Shenny fanbase the Producers were sensitive to, and before season 7 there as an article with Molaro who waxed poetic about Shenny's special bond and some focus on that relationship being explored in season 7. In the end, I think that was really only for the one episode Leonard was still away on the North Sea and Penny and Sheldon were trying to hang out without him. But before that there was a lot of anxiety and guessing as to what it meant and how it would play out. The living arrangement focus is quite interesting to me. Through season 9, they were openly against Leonard leaving that apartment and "changing the DNA of the show." Obviously something has changed. Chuck has been strident and vocal about how he does not listen to critics, but I don't know about fans. Or how the other writers feel about fan critique or catering to what a majority of the fanbase seems to want. There is danger in that as well, as you can cater to 60% of your fanbase, lose 40% by doing so, and then again cater to a vocal group subset and lose another part of your audience, until you find yourself not writing what you want but what caters to your remaining 7 fans and nothing about your original characters, artistic vision, or fanbase remains. So if a living arrangement experiment is an idea of Steve's that he wants to try or fan service is unknown, but I'm very wary about it. Seeing the characters evolve and grow up and pursue more adult living arrangements and functions of their relationships is what I've wanted for a long time, but this....idea that Sheldon has to be coaxed around but he won't be *tricked* is....suggesting that it won't be Sheldon's idea. Then Amy's idea? Leonard and Penny's idea? If you say you can convince Sheldon to do something in the name of science, and that something is about living together with Amy, that clearly suggests that the impetus or idea to try living together isn't coming from Sheldon himself, and process of elimination only leaves so mNy other characters. But maybe Raj suggests it, as apparently he's everyone's secondary spouse, plugging up all the holes in everyone's relationships.

There's a few new interviews. In one, Molaro says Amy tempts Sheldon by making him look at living together as an experiment. It says nothing about Lenny moving out, though. It also makes it clear it can be "undone," which makes me wonder if it's temporary. Like Lenny go on a trip, and Amy finagles her way to moving in while they are gone. Or Lenny go back to the arrangement from two years ago now, where they spend one-two nights a week in Penny's apartment. So Amy suggests that she spend their nights away living in 4A. Or perhaps Sheldon will piss Lenny off enough to completely move out. In which case I wonder if Sheldon will care more to get them back, or moving forward with his girlfriend.