Jump to content


  • Posts

  • Joined

  • Last visited

Everything posted by Lionne

  1. Best episode of the season. Actually enjoyed it a lot.
  2. A nice, classic style of TBBT episode. It might not have been earth-shattering plotwise, but it was really nice just to see them all in character and interacting. The girls/guys episodes have always done well, and the groups have great chemistry. For me, the best thing from my point of view were that there some actual quotables from this episode. Funny lines that I enjoyed the delivery on, and can repeat to my own amusement later. And....I have to admit that I enjoyed Bernie being a bit of a bitch in this episode. I mean, I'm sorry, but I have to agree with her - what kind of lunatic goes to McDonald's for fruit? Sheesh! Get the pregnant lady some fries already.
  3. Shamy and the neverending psychodrama of preteen sexual angst. I'm so over it. Just screw each other already and get on with it, and stop all this shirt rending and pearl clutching over sharing a bed and longing looks over your hot, wet, naked and vulnerable post-shower condition and just get it on like rabid weasels in heat. I loathe unnecessary angst like this. On the flip side, bet I know what's coming for Nov sweeps. Bow-chicka-bow-wow. PS. The show has made another leap with sexual connotations and toothbrushes. These writers are really weird about hygiene. PPS. Penny and Leonard change the locks? Oh my God, they are going to end up with 4A, aren't they? I don't think I'm going to be okay with that.
  4. Preach it. Unbelievable how sloppily Raj's individual plot line has been handled. I agree with wow - this show gives him nothing to do and he should run, not walk, for the nearest exit. He's an actor and one of the original 5 characters that built this show, and he's always handled anything the show has thrown at him to the best of his ability. I know it's a lot of money and status to walk away from, but he's an actor and if he wants to actually get to act an interesting and fulfilling role, he should start looking elsewhere.
  5. Sure, but part of that is because they were WRITTEN that way. Even though it's a sitcom, part of its popularity has been because it struck a chord with people. I know NoGav and Tensor enjoy Penny and Leonard because in some ways their relationship reminds them of their own marriages. Or the guy who wrote a blog post about getting into the show over the scene where the boys are going to nerd out over assembling Penny's shelving unit, because that reminded him of himself and his friends. Or the myriad people who have gotten into the show because their SO reminds them a bit of Sheldon. Or the Mom who was arrested by the scene where Penny takes a talkative and oblivious Sheldon to work despite being exhausted, because the dynamic reminded her of herself and her autistic son. The show is a sitcom and is painted in broad strokes, but people have related to the characters and found them real enough that they felt the show was tapping into certain truths. And that's often where true humor lies; speaking or showing a comedic variant on the truth, especially things people are not exactly supposed to say out loud. This is part of why you get some of the lines you do in comedy, and like any comedic material, sometimes it flies and sometimes it doesn't. But the show used to have writing that tapped into some authenticity, and people put aside any suspension of disbelief and got into it, and fell in love with the characters and the show. So you will run into problems when you write scenes for your characters that don't feel authentic. You can write whatever the hell you want, but that doesn't mean everyone is going to buy it. Leonard and Penny can be written as allowing Sheldon to crash their special moment in front of their family, but that doesn't mean that everyone is going to buy that as realistic. Sheldon wasn't in hot water with Leonard or Penny, and the vow renewal was about them, so why his character felt the impetus to declare his love for his special person, Leonard (and Penny was there too, so what the hell), in the middle of that moment is sort of a mystery. It seems reasonable to wonder why Penny and Leonard didn't say, "we love you too, now please sit down and butt the hell out because this isn't about you." Instead they were very welcoming of Sheldon as the third wheel in their relationship, which is something that they sometimes seem okay with, even reliant on, and something that they sometimes seem highly annoyed by. (A few months ago Penny went on anti-anxiety meds over it, for instance.) I think it's actually realistic that they would have conflicted feelings over it, as Sheldon has always had a very strong presence in their lives and even served as a crutch for their relationship from time to time. I think a lot of fans would like to see that crutch fall away, though, especially this deep into the show's run and considering that Lenny are now married and Sheldon has Amy. It's beginning to seem jarring and inorganic, and even annoying, that this dynamic persists despite the underpinnings making no logical sense anymore. Honestly I'm not even really sure how the show wants me to feel about it anymore, because it's a moving target at this point. Some people still buy into it. Other people just don't find it believable anymore. Some people might still find it believable, but that doesn't mean they want to watch it. Especially not now. Personally, I think that I totally buy into how the three leads used to revolve around each other, but particularly with Amy's inclusion and Sheldon's supposed character development or growing up as well as Lenny's engagement and marriage, it's not exactly making sense anymore. And why Sheldon decided then and there was the appropriate moment for his big speech like that seemed illogical and forced. So things can be written a certain way by the show's writers, but that doesn't mean people actually buy it. And the more it seems like it was just a convenient way to write something, or to pick some low-hanging comedic fruit, the more that "the strings are showing" on the puppets.
  6. I think in this episode Sheldon made some stunningly offensive comments, sure. If he was reprimanded, immediately after the incident would get glossed right over as they moved onto something else, because there was just a lot to pack into the episode and they didn't have a lot of time for "people being outraged at sh*t Sheldon says." And I do think he had a few offensive lines that no one directly took issue with. The line about wrinkled up old bags of flesh, something along those lines, and the grossness of the idea of them having sex because they are too old, was really incredibly cruel and vicious. And all people did was drop their jaw or roll their eyes, but he didn't get any comeuppance because he was in the middle of pledging his love to Leonard while Leonard was in the midst of his vow renewal ceremony. (Take heart, Shelnard shippers.) So I don't think that Sheldon actually got reprimanded for everything he was pulling in this episode, I also think the stuff he pulled was ludicrious and simply....I don't know, it's a different and meaner flavor than it used to be. But it's hard really getting into the difference. It's like the show used to be chocolate ice cream, and now it's chocolate mint with a whirl of chocolate chips, and it definitely tastes different but you know you're going to run into a bunch of people screaming "but it's still chocolate!" and treat you like you're splitting hairs so what's the point? And the thing is....Sheldon has been both growing up and getting meaner and getting more childish as the seasons go by, so it's hard to tell the difference in the taste of the flavor anymore, right? You can still put incredibly insulting and mean things in his mouth and those who love him will let him get away with it, and those who hate him will continue to peg him as a jackass. Not going to change how people feel about him now. Besides, a part of it is also that people around him are written as letting him get away with it, and that's just a trope of the sitcom world. Will & Grace is a good example of a show where you really have to wonder why Will and Grace don't clobber Jack and Karen to death for the insulting things they say, or on HIMYM there were times that Lily was truly disgusted by the way Barney treated women, but she would relent because in sitcom world you cannot break up the gang or stop on the slutty sex jokes, even if the character took a woman camping to have sex with her and then abandoned her in the wildness with no car to be attacked by wild cougars. Other characters might gape or snort or roll their eyes, but they are never going to take any concrete, justifiable, normal human action like sever relationships. You can't really do that in sitcoms, because then obviously the family-like dynamics and relationships between your main characters fall apart and you have no show. You have no show without these people interacting, and at a certain point, like when a show has gone on as long as TBBT, I'm not necessarily sure that they care about it making sense anymore. Everyone has gotten so beaten down by Sheldon's antics, and someone on the show needs to be able to make those brutal (but supposedly funny) lines work. So. You know. You get your Sheldons and your Karens and your Barneys, and over the years they go from amusing and beloved characters to some other level of.....something. Still chocolate, but you know they've mixed nuts or honey or something else in there that's making it taste funny. (Or not so funny, as the case maybe.) Sometimes what looks like straight up Flanderization looks like actual character growth to another. If you have to, you can always course correct an episode or so later. You go from Sheldon's over-the-top behavior here to the fact he knows he's controlling and is going to cede some of that control to Amy to make their living experiment work, and you don't know where this guy showed up from but it still tastes something like chocolate. Or maybe Monica's "mocklate" at this point but who knows after so long of the flavor sliding around on you.
  7. Hey....they got in a joke about Penny's brother's new teeth being paid for. That totally makes the whole meth thing believable now. Sure. Anyway, I also wish that this episode had been a whole hour. It felt rushed, and....so many things pushed into it but the overall experience was a little bland. Between Alfred, Beverly and Sheldon's nasty commentary to each other, the overall effective of negativity was hard to overcome by what were some very quick and not particularly memorable new vows. Their original vows were a lot sweeter, and more witty, but I guess I have those to remember for Lenny. Not to mention that Penny's family was infighting as well, so the episode felt mostly like people sniping at each other with dull, uninspired insults. If you want to level insults, at least make them clever and something to laugh at. I didn't laugh once this whole episode. I did smile once, I think. The best for me were Penny and Wyatt's toast to each other. I know it was over their drinking ability but the spirit of it was comedic and sweet. I still love Christine Baranski and she can do no wrong in my eyes; even her facial expressions are hilarious, and I felt that her emotional upheaval was sincere. Albert was married to her for a long time, I have no idea how they were ever compatible or how he doesn't know how to manage her as well as Leonard knows how to manage Sheldon. I guess what I mean is....almost every family has some negative influence, and every single person has flaws, and typically when people come together you learn to not let those things bother you or you handle them maturely and ignore it, not pick fights back. The way Alfred and Beverly picked at each other you'd think they were both toddlers, or still holding onto some feeling for each other and reason to fight, not two adults who had figured out how to reach a certain level of zen around the other. The part about the turkey drowning in the rain was supposed to be funny, but I'm not sure that's really an adequate metaphor for Sheldon, so it kinda fell flat. I thought Simon, as ever, ruled as Howard. Again, he doesn't need a lot to play with, his facial expressions alone are classic. And even Kunal got in some good acting when meeting the Colonel; the look on his face was pretty priceless. Yet at the same time, why the heck did they even need that plot in there to begin with? They had 6 guest stars they were juggling as part of a full small family wedding plot, and I think that all of the guest stars barely got anything to do that really made them screen time stand out. And you had a new character with the Colonel too? You had a limited amount of time, the whole story about the gyroscope has no parallels in the wedding story - why not just wait until the second episode to get started on all that? Why break up the momentum of everything else happening with that random plot line and devote a few more minutes to mine the antics of your talented guest stars? Did Penny's family even have one single line or joke that wasn't about Randall's drug problems and meth dealing? How one-note can you get. I feel if there was more time they might have gotten in some more heartfelt and deeper, more illuminating moments between the characters and their family members, but with so many people and only half an hour they only got to play on the more obvious, surface level beats before skipping on. Penny looked lovely in her dress, as did Amy and Bernadette. The location for the wedding was gorgeous, and the touch with Amy's harp was nice. I thought Sheldon's speech was fairly stupid and redundant; we all know by now how much he loves Leonard and looks at him as a brother, and that he loves Penny too. There was absolutely no need or reason to inject him and his speech here, they should have kept the moment on Alfred and Beverly, and left Sheldon out of it. It's not like he was even apologizing for anything, he just.....wanted to declare his love during their ceremony and inject himself? Like the audience needed the reminder that Sheldon is a third wheel, or the third lead of the show? Totally unnecessary, and all kinds of mawkish. It was supposed to be sappy and touching and sweet, but I just had to roll my eyes at it, especially interjected there in that moment. If they wanted something sweet between the 3 of them they could have done something earlier, in a separate scene. During the wedding vows was just ridiculous; no one does that. Not even Sheldon is so socially inept as to do that. Only I guess he is, because he did, so anyway. Anyway, as Leonard and Penny said, I hope this is the last time they get married, although I would not hate seeing any of the guest stars again in the future when they can have a full episode in which to get to know them better.
  8. For a character that we know has been involved in the meth scene for years, that actor as Penny's brother is the most ridiculous casting ever, and makes light of a huge meth epidemic that's killing off hundreds of thousands in the US. There are currently towns here where drug related deaths are outnumbering deaths by old age and natural causes. And the look of many meth chemists and users is quite distinct, with the notorious "meth mouth", meth scabs, emaciated bodies, and dead eyes the usual giveaways to a meth user. I know that Penny's brother was more of a chemist, so perhaps he was not using so much, but there was a time he had run away from rehab. He's been in jail. And the danger and sheer toxicity of the chemicals used in meth leave their mark too. Having Mr. Golden Haired, innocent looking boy with all his big white horse teeth show up as a longtime, hardcore member of the meth drug scene is just ridiculous, to the point it's offensive towards a very real issue that's crippling America's heartland. Meth has because the #1 problem facing middle America, and is certainly becoming a major problem here in Seattle, where I live, as well. Casting that actor in the role is just a joke, and one in poor taste considering what meth is and what meth does.
  9. Thank you for your compliment, Skull. It's very sweet. I should stop and note that I have noticed a greater degree of thoughtfulness, nuance and maturity to your own posts this year, and I've been impressed by your personal growth. I know we don't always see eye-to-eye, and techniquilly there's nothing on the forum that amuses me more than your creative spelling, but you're a good egg. I mean that sincerely, not condescendingly, by the way. Sorry if it comes off badly in text. For the record, I don't think that the change in the living arrangements is filler. I think it's the most exciting and overdue development that the show has tried in a long time. The writers and producers of this show keep an eye on longevity, annnnnnd, I hate to say it but the huge amount of money they are making off syndication. And the more episodes you can put into syndication the more money you're going to make. Writing for syndication is also different, as there's no guarantee that episodes will be shown chronologically and so it makes sense that they want the show to sort of look and be structured the same episode after episode, and for all issues to be easily wrapped up in one episode. I do think that's partly what's behind the "we don't want to change the DNA of the show" mindset, and why there's been reluctance to change things up significantly. Shaking up the living arrangements is refreshing, especially the way they are going about it, with Sheldon actually desiring something and showing self-awareness, and Amy not being the one constantly pushing things forward. It's so different than usual it's actually shocking to me, and a part of me thinks I shouldn't quibble with it or look a gift horse in the mouth, but another part of me isn't going to be so easy to please. They've built up a lot of nonsensical schlock, especially in the second half of Season 9, and that's a lot of fit under the rug without a lot 'o lumps. Anyway, I feel that the Sheldon and Amy side of this living arrangement swap is interesting and has some teeth to it, but Leonard and Penny's reaction is a little....on the light and frothy side. My hope is that if this does span several episodes and moves into the November sweeps that Leonard and Penny's side in this oncoming change is expanded and given more depth. I think that if the issue of....who gets to have 4A, for instance, would really be a lot of fun, and give Lenny more motivation and more at stake in the plot than just spending the time dancing in their underwear and being snarky. ETA: Sorry but I have to cut off here. Trying to type around a 22 pound viking cat determined to have my lap is not working out. ETA: Should also note here that I'm very happy to see Lenny get a great and sweet wedding, complete with family. Lenny fans held on through a lot, even the first wedding, and after 10 years they deserve this pay off. So congrats on that.
  10. I think that there's been a greenlight given to explore the issue, and the writers are jumping on it with such fervor I wonder how long they've been waiting to push forward. Amy was deliberately sent off to Detriot to put physical distance between her and Sheldon after their first sexual encounter to see what the overall audience reaction would be. I believe Molaro said that in an interview. And the one episode became two, and then there were comments from Johnny and Jim about wanting their characters to move forward but the writers or Chuck talking them out of such nonsense ideas and desires. The quote about not changing the DNA of the show was put out there. The second half of season 9 seemed like inconclusive wheel spinning, with "hey look, Mee Maw!" and karaoke and other distractions that amounted to very little. And they evolved so far they decided to open and end the season the same way - on Lenny getting married, or redoing getting married. It was some pretty weak rehash, and big milestones happened but nothing really changed too much. And my understanding is that ratings slipped a tad at the end there? At this point, I'm curious what the deal is - are the actors pushing for things for their characters? Are the contract negotiations already on? They seemed so confident season 11 would be a go without a hitch, but it sounds more tense and unsure at this point. If the actors are bored or dislike the direction their characters are going, they'll speak up about it if the negotiations look to be in their favor. Do any of them really need more money at this point? So what would motivate them? Is Chuck noting the ratings and willing to freshen things up? Did Molaro sell him on a living arrangements experiment? Did he flat out say he has nothing to write for these characters if there areno plots taking them forward? I have no idea. But the wind is blowing a new direction. We'll have to see how long that lasts, and their track record for holding on with forward momentum in the second half of the season is shaky. So I feel this is a fairly radical shift, and the beginning of a plot line many fans have been talking about for a long, long time, but as Molaro said....they can still get out of this if they don't like it. So I think we just have to wait and see.
  11. In a way this episode sets up a lot of things I've wanted for a long time, and I probably should be much happier about it. I still feel a bit flat, though. It's such a massive shift without build up that it feels jarring. I'm glad Lorre's name is on it, it means he's bought into the decision. Holland, Tara and Dave are my three favorite Shamy writers, so I'm not surprised the characters and their story are written so great when all 3 of them are on the script at the same time. This is the way I Iike Sheldon and Amy to be....but it's just....the timing and sudden shift in direction of the characterization and plot is giving me that good ole TBBT whiplash that I don't think I can quite handle anymore. Once burned, twice shy and all that. Their pacing is still horrendous, and this episode screams: We have been given the green light! This is not a drill! We have the green light, all hands on deck, we might just be moving forward! I repeat, this is not a drill! This follows the pattern of awesome first half of the season, and the 5 weeks that Amy is out of her place makes me wonder if this is a mini-arc that'll go into November sweeps when they split the apartments between the couples. Sheldon seems so forward and happy about it, I highly suspect the writing is already on the wall for how they want it to go. Big question is which couple will get what apartment, and perhaps that is the big plan or surprise for sweeps. Perhaps who gets 4A (which I think they could all afford now) will be settled by an epic couples game night. As for the rest....Lenny and Howardette's plots are a little lame. Howardette's plot is right off the pregnancy checklist, while Lenny have space for their own plot and all they get to do is.....dance? It reminds me a bit of the karaoke last season. Cute and funny, sure, but 12 minutes of a 19 minute episode spent in a tiki bar goofing off and singing? I get why @Chrismo thinks this feels like filler. It's like cotton candy; we all love cotton candy and it's pink and fluffy and sweet and all, but it's not very nutritious or anything. I am really glad to see Sheldon WANT something and do what he needs to do to go after it, though. He's acting like an adult again. I really hope that lasts.
  12. My personal suspicions about Lorre come down to two pretty specific instances: 1) Season 7 - He's absent from Locomotive, where Sheldon kisses Amy and has this huge maturing moment, but immediately after he's right back on Table, where Sheldon revels in his infantile selfishness with his "the baby always wins" line. 2) Season 8 - Chuck vanishes from the scripts for a long hiatus in season 8, when I felt Shamy felt a lot more like their old selves. Which built up to their first sleep over in Fort. Molaro gave an interview saying they had grown closer "and would continue to do so." Immediately after Fort, Chuck was back on season 8's last 3 scripts, including the sudden Shamy break up. It's hard for me to rationalize why Molaro would say Shamy were going to grow closer if he knew a break up was in the works, and right after Fort is when Chuck returns after sitting out 10-11 episodes in a row. (I think? He was all over seasons 6 & 7 but was missing on scripts for a big chunk of 8.) There might be nothing to this as we can't be sure what happens in the writing room, but Chuck has a way of popping up when things have progressed to a certain point to throw a spanner in the works.
  13. I have to agree with Wow that season 1 - 5 with Bill Prady as headwriter have a different flavor than season 6- 9 with Molaro. I know that some people only like seasons 1 - 3, before the girls came along, but I feel like seasons 1 - 5 actually all flow together and are quite consistent for me. It's the show I liked, and I actually think that the whole show reached it's peak and was it's best for season 5. What we have now does seem a jerky mess between Molaro's sentimentality and Chuck's much darker edge. I feel like there hasn't been any ability to gain plot traction or meaning from the show's milestones due to the fact there's some tug-o-war doing on with the show's direction. You can an episode which seems to go in a certain direction and that direction just completely vanishes by the next episode, and maybe or maybe not suddenly pops back up as relevant 10 episodes later, or something very sweet and big happens and the next episode we're doing to undo it all, especially through Sheldon being a psycho hose beast hell child over something. At this point in time, I consider what happens in each episode and where the story seems to be going to depend on who "wins" this week - Molaro or Lorre. As for Lorre, for one thing I think he's got an extremely dark sense of humor. Also, I think that Lorre's true talent is in recognizing and fostering talent, no matter what it takes. He has a long line of shows which are carried by very talented people, some of whom have significant substance abuse problems or mental illness, and I think that part of his problem is when he puts together very talented ensembles of people but doesn't necessarily get out of their way, but interjects over them rather roughshod. The Big Bang Theory was really one of his first shows that critics felt "did not suck," but I wonder how much of that had to do with Bill Prady knowing how to handle him, or at least being willing to handle him for 5 seasons before he basically cut a runner and stepped down. I think that the current TBBT audience is really running on huge fumes of nostalgia for this old-school sitcom format and the first five to seven seasons of this show (Season Seven was a big turning point, a lot of people seemed to quit or vanish after that one, and I think we'll see another drop after Season Nine), and continues to bring in people based on the syndicated episodes of earlier seasons too. As for Season 10, we'll see how it goes, but I'm not seeing a lot of difference from the earlier formula when Lenny renew their vows lovingly one episode, and in the next two Leonard's talking about only his French toast keeping Penny in the marriage, or Penny explaining that she settled for Leonard because he just wore her down. Like wow said, it would seem that Molaro and crew manage to lock Lorre in the basement and get some sweet things accomplished - albeit some seriously cliche sh*t at times - but then Lorre escapes out the bathroom window and is back to demand that every single cast member needs to comment on how hot Penny is, and Amy needs to get her expectations sky high over her relationship with Sheldon only to get cut off at the knees. Because how high onto Cloud 9 Amy can get, only to be brought back to earth with a painful thump is just so darn funny!
  14. True. I mean....there was once a large Shenny fanbase the Producers were sensitive to, and before season 7 there as an article with Molaro who waxed poetic about Shenny's special bond and some focus on that relationship being explored in season 7. In the end, I think that was really only for the one episode Leonard was still away on the North Sea and Penny and Sheldon were trying to hang out without him. But before that there was a lot of anxiety and guessing as to what it meant and how it would play out. The living arrangement focus is quite interesting to me. Through season 9, they were openly against Leonard leaving that apartment and "changing the DNA of the show." Obviously something has changed. Chuck has been strident and vocal about how he does not listen to critics, but I don't know about fans. Or how the other writers feel about fan critique or catering to what a majority of the fanbase seems to want. There is danger in that as well, as you can cater to 60% of your fanbase, lose 40% by doing so, and then again cater to a vocal group subset and lose another part of your audience, until you find yourself not writing what you want but what caters to your remaining 7 fans and nothing about your original characters, artistic vision, or fanbase remains. So if a living arrangement experiment is an idea of Steve's that he wants to try or fan service is unknown, but I'm very wary about it. Seeing the characters evolve and grow up and pursue more adult living arrangements and functions of their relationships is what I've wanted for a long time, but this....idea that Sheldon has to be coaxed around but he won't be *tricked* is....suggesting that it won't be Sheldon's idea. Then Amy's idea? Leonard and Penny's idea? If you say you can convince Sheldon to do something in the name of science, and that something is about living together with Amy, that clearly suggests that the impetus or idea to try living together isn't coming from Sheldon himself, and process of elimination only leaves so mNy other characters. But maybe Raj suggests it, as apparently he's everyone's secondary spouse, plugging up all the holes in everyone's relationships.
  15. There's a few new interviews. In one, Molaro says Amy tempts Sheldon by making him look at living together as an experiment. It says nothing about Lenny moving out, though. It also makes it clear it can be "undone," which makes me wonder if it's temporary. Like Lenny go on a trip, and Amy finagles her way to moving in while they are gone. Or Lenny go back to the arrangement from two years ago now, where they spend one-two nights a week in Penny's apartment. So Amy suggests that she spend their nights away living in 4A. Or perhaps Sheldon will piss Lenny off enough to completely move out. In which case I wonder if Sheldon will care more to get them back, or moving forward with his girlfriend.
  16. But the thing is that I didn't call anyone sheep or mindless followers. I called the show out on treating it's viewers that way. Using another example: the show is *showing* us a lot of Leonard and Penny bickering and their dithering around on an engagement, and there would seem to be some worrisome flaws in the relationship. But then Stuart suddenly pops up to cut in and tell everyone that Leonard and Penny are the best couple he knows. Why, the better halves of them add up into one awesome person! Instances like this are incredibly lazy on behalf of the writers of the show; they are treating the audience like sheep who will just believe what they tell the audience through Stuart (Lenny are the best couple ever) even what they are actually writing for the couple is questionable and has caused even some of their most ardent shippers to have doubts about them, or simply to express annoyance about how they are written. This is patronizing. One of my degrees is in creative writing, and I can tell you that when you show up to learn to write the first thing they hammer into you is the difference between showing and telling. And there's just an enormous cognitive dissonance between what the writers seem to think they are writing and what they are actually writing. If you want a prime example of this, look at this quote from Molaro: As much as Raj wants to be a husband and father, Molaro says he’s already a married man, sorta. "Raj’s a pretty good second husband to all the women,” says Molaro. “It’s a role he handles well … He floats around and fills in the gaps for all their relationships, in a very nice way. He’s the backup spouse to everybody. I mean, people of the forum, have any of you over the past several seasons come to the conclusion that Raj is the sweet and wonderful secondary husband to every single female member of the cast? Were you aware that Raj is not dating Emily and Claire and being a douchebag in his relationship with them, but that he's "filling the gaps" in the holes of Sheldon and Amy, Leonard and Penny, AND Howard and Bernadette's relationships? If anything, we have seen Bernie and Howard continually waffle back and forth between kicking Raj out or reluctantly accepting it so as not to hurt his feelings when Raj becomes a third wheel in their relationship. But apparently....this is not what Molaro takes away from what he's writing, or what the audience is supposed to take away from it. Raj is everyone's back up husband/wife, and that's what Molaro is telling you and how you're supposed to see it. And I just find that outrageous, and incredibly out of touch that you can dictate how your audience is supposed to view your writing and how they should interpret what you're putting out there. It treats the audience badly to assume that they are sheep who will just accept whatever you say is going on no matter where it makes sense or not, and whether that's what you have actually written or not. I have no idea how you translate this into insulting my fellow forum members by outright calling them sheep, but this is not what I said and the outrage is not warrented. Just like I never said that I think Sheldon secretly hates Amy, or anything close to that, and yet it was summed up that this is what I said and then told that such "nonsense" would not be tolerated. What I have actually said is being way twisted up in a way I find incredibly hyper defensive. And I do understand it, I do understand that Shamy and the show and various ships are precious to people and they get very protective, but both the warping of people's statements and the Positivity Fascism are not alright. And as for the statement that if only we were more positive we'd attract more people: I have to call bullsh*t on that. In fact it's been proven to not be true. We have had both Lenny and Shamy Positivity threads and both happened to rise and then flame out and die before their seasons were over. If being 100% positive about anything and everything was so damn attractive and would make everyone happy than it does not make sense that the Positivity threads of the past have repeatedly died from disuse. People can say they want it, but the proof is not actually there. Just like last year when I said that nobody really loved Howard and Bernadette as a ship, and no one wanted to hear that from the mean and negative lady, so you started the first and only Howardette thread to PROVE your Howardette love. How far did that thread make it? More than 8 - 10 pages? In comparison to hundreds and hundreds of pages and ink spilled to Lenny and Shamy threads season after season? Why can't we just be honest about stuff without the backlash?
  17. You're confused because you're still buying into the premise that the show makes sense. Or a part of you is still trying to buy into it, although I've noted from your posts for some time that you're edging closer and closer to tossing your Shamy shipper card and just giving in to reality. This is perfectly understandable - the human brain as a habit of trying to put things in order. It's like the way we see human faces where no face really exists; it's just the way the brain wants to see things and seeks data out. We can make three smudges for eyes and mouth, and somehow the brain will arrange it into a face, even an expression of some emotion on it. We're doing the same thing with the show, especially because taken episode by episode, or scene by scene, or little piece by piece, there are still some good, charming, funny moments left, or things that seem right to the characters. Or maybe seemed right to the characters two years ago even if it's only happening now. However, you take a big step back away from this and try to look at the big picture, it's just a hot, hot mess. The show has been all over the place, but the final test was looking at how the show operated after passing two of it's biggest milestones - Leonard and Penny getting married and Sheldon and Amy having coitus. Look really carefully, in particular, at Wil Wheaton's part in The Opening Night, where he looks right at the boys in the happy afterglow of Star Wars, and coolly and impassively tells them that it's just a movie, that it doesn't mean anything, and that it changes nothing. It is as meta from the writers to the fans as it can possibly be, and it's message is mocking and cruel. Sheldon may have jostled Amy's genitals finally, but nothing about the show or their relationship would be changing. Nothing about them making love had any real meaning. It is meaningless. This show is meaningless and it's openly acknowledging it. You look for some sense and logic and where things are going in this show, and of course you are confused. Because it's not there, and that's not normal. But it's the truth, and the show has actually full out told us so. it's just too bitter and awful of a pill to swallow. I never in my wildest dreams thought that the show would do this, especially to it's long time fans, but it has. It's a shaggy dog story now that Bill Prady is gone. It sucked us in with the development of 7 amazing, loveable characters for seasons 1 - 5, and then Bill left. Even looking at season 6, you stand back and try to look at the big picture and you realize how it was all over the place back then. But they have taken the original 7 characters and their story and milked it for all it's worth, and then just kept going. And going. And going. And like a good shaggy dog story, they will just keep on going, with enough here and there to pick up your interest - like engagement rings and finale cliffhangers - and then fall back into drivel and filler and wheel spinning. Shamy had sex, and immediately fell back into Amy making comments about his birthday suit that fly over his head, so her attempts to be flirty with her boyfriend simply land her back on earth with a huge thud. Then she waxes poetic about the day he was born being the best day of her entire life, of all history - because she is pathetic. Path. Et. Ic. Nothing about them has changed at all, and while I hate saying this, ATOB deserves an apology or at least a drive-by visit to scream, "I toldya so." Because it's been months since Amy and Sheldon did the deed, and at the time he displayed not one whiff of an idea he was doing it out of his own passion or desire, but only as a gift to her. And months later and nothing about him has changed at all; he had pity sex with her, sex to keep her satisfied and in a relationship with him on mostly his terms, and not really with any iota of sexual desire, passion, or otherwise. Which the show continually subtly suggests would be ridiculous for him to feel, considering that Amy is nerdy, frumpy, and apparently the hairiest woman known to mankind. Amy is an unattractive doormat, unlike perky, spunky, hot Penny, and she does not receive the longing, the sexual desire, the passion, or the heat from her boyfriend and one-time lover that Penny does. So they had sex, Sheldon tells us in that horrible Meemaw episode that they are stronger than ever and that the breakup was necessary because it made their relationship better, but that's just the writers using Sheldon as a mouthpiece telling the audience what to think. Like we're sheep. What they are actually showing us is that Sheldon displays no sexual desire for his girlfriend, and that despite the whole break up their relationship dynamic has gone back to exactly the way it was before Amy broke up with him in the first place. Sheldon is more immature and childish than ever, he is still bonded with Leonard and Penny - even declared their extra weird husband now! - and he'll be dragged out of that dysfunctional threesome with them by a pushy Amy who will finally frame a perfectly normal request like "let's live together" into "let's make it an experiment" as a way she has to micro-manage and push all sorts of buttons in order to get Sheldon to do anything. And it won't even be to move in with Sheldon and be in bed with him, sleeping together and having sex like a normal couple. She'll be living in Leonard's room, desperately dropping hints for sex on occasion, while she spends her time cleaning, cooking, and caring for him and he laps it all up like a king. Who understands he has to give up his genitals from time to time to keep living this good life of being taken care of and worshipped...and maybe at some point he'll also realize he has to put a ring on it too. How romantic that will be.
  18. Oh, you know that Amy is going to take up residence in Leonard's old room, and that Sheldon will bitch and drag his feet about it because "he hates change." Nevermind that our OCD genius is living peacefully with one of the world's biggest slobs, and doesn't want her to leave, and there's been no problems with that. When Amy wants to move in, or suggests moving in, we'll be reminded that Sheldon spooks easily, that it'll have to go slowly, it'll just be an experiment, and Amy will have to push and nag and nudge and manipulate him into it like taming a wild, childish, tempermental animal rather than dealing with a full grown man who is now pushing 40. And in the end, she'll just be sleeping over in Leonard's old room, while Sheldon adjusts to that terrible and crazy reality because change is SO HARD ON HIM - despite being ready to ask her to marry him over a year ago - and it'll be like pulling teeth, and just as pleasant to watch. If you think it'll be different, you have not been paying attention.
  19. 1) I think it's disappointing that a show with such a strong representation of awesome, loveable male characters who are deeply enmeshed in "nerd culture" could not have created at least one example of a female character among the 3 leads who also loves comic books, superheroes, video games, Scifi, and etc. There's a lot of women out there with quirky, intellectual, nerdy interests and if a show was ever going to show and embrace a female character like that it could have been this one. Now, Amy has her awesome "days of yore" passions, which I love about her. It's not wrong that the show didn't take the opportunity to go in this direction, but sometimes when all three girls are cracking jokes or mocking those interests, while guzzling away the red wine, I feel it's an awfully sexist divide (guys love their geeky passions! Girls huff and roll their eyes) and it's very stereotypical and certainly not very fresh or original. 2) And that's the point - if you don't keep your show fresh, take some risks, and are so lazy you fall back on the usual tropes and stereotypes for your jokes and plot lines, you're in trouble. People want to see something new, and you need to have something that is unique and feels fresh or it's about time to throw in the towel or just become Full House. TBBT is at their 10th season, they seem clear on going for at least 11, and possibly more. In the meantime, nerd culture has gone way more mainstream - the top grossing movies are all superhero, fantasy, etc, a good old romance like Titanic in the Gone With the Wind vein is a rarity these days - the characters have grown up and their lives have changed, and the show is going to have to dig a little more to stay fresh and relevant. Sticking to male/female stereotypes, particularly with a pregnancy plot going on (one of the oldest in the book), isn't going to help keep the show alive. I just think that the show desperately needs a little kick, a little more willingness to shake things up. It's only one episode so far, though, (well, two....from this we can assume the wedding is funny but nothing changes from it) so we don't know what's coming. This episode is fine, but I hope there's more coming down the line than this.
  20. Great report, thanks for writing is up, and remembering so many details! Sounds like a fairly typical TBBT episode, at least the kind we've gotten used to the past few years, which are a tiny bit meaner to me than the earlier seasons. I hate seeing Bernie and Penny fight, and I'm glad that they made up in the end. Sheldon sounds like he is up to his usual tricks, and I hope that Amy and Raj are going to have more to do this season than sort of revolve around their friends. I am glad Bernie got the project. Seeing the boys have a plot revolving around science while the girls have a plot revolving around gossip and in-fighting isn't necessarily my favorite. Crossing my fingers we'll see more of Amy, if not Bernie, get into some science projects of their own. Well, except Molaro said something about her working on mice orgasms? Maybe I should retract that; not sure I want to see Amy expressing jealousy towards furry little rodents.
  21. The "Our Wedding" thing from Sheldon is exactly the place where most people would know they needed to draw a strong boundary, but everyone on the show has big problems with that. Howard and Bernie struggled to draw healthy boundaries around their newly married life with both Raj and Stuart. When they did they folded like cheap suits because their friends would give them puppy dog eyes and the sad sack routine. Penny and Leonard do the same with Sheldon. It's difficult because a sitcom needs to continue to put the characters in situations together, every sitcom is either based on a family, group of friends who are surrogate family, or pseudo-family, like at the office. Or shipwrecked on a tropical island! So friends on sitcoms become almost unnaturally close as compared to real life, and you have to fudge normal relationship boundaries to keep everyone together for the sake of the show. TV is always a scripted and warped reflection of real life - and there are certain trade offs viewers are willing to make to enjoy the show. We, the viewers, agree not to notice how much everyone hangs out together in slightly unrealistic ways (neighbors coming and going without knocking, for example) because we want to be spared any time-wasting details and we want to see the characters together. We'll buy into the TV/stage/movie shorthand. And I would, if only the show would stop pointing out how unhealthy the boundaries are. In the long run, I think there's a variety of issues here about boundaries anyway - first of all, if the two married couples are both going through boundary issues with their friends and their living arrangements, it gets old that much quicker. I've talked about that before, and I'd love to move on but the show seems unwilling. They even continually point it out and "hang a lamp" on the issues of Howardette/Raj/Stuart and Lenny/Sheldon, so you keep noticing it. and you keep noticing that both Howardette and Lenny keep folding, when you're cheering for them to have some spine and push forward some change. In the meantime, I'm curious what Amy thinks of it. If I was her, I'd want to push for my own relationship and life to advance, and clearly it won't with the given circumstances. I wouldn't pin that on Shenny being too close, though, but the complacency and and unwillingness to grow up by my boyfriend and his two married friends. Which is an issue they've tapped several times this year without having any intention of pulling the trigger on it, which is just one of many storylines teased but not executed in a meaningful way within the season. No, instead the story goes on guest stars who we'll be done with by 10.02. And then what, show? And then what will you do, when this distraction is behind you? Where are these characters going? Will you know by 10.03? Anyway, Sheldon's action was just an excuse to get Mary there. In the end, that's the purpose and no one was really going to argue about it.
  22. I don't think all siblings will be there, but I think the definite will be Penny's mother. I know Kaley wants Lisa Kudrow, and I'd be all for that. Although her mother from 8 Rules would be fun too. But I feel like someone who looks like they belong with Wyatt should be older?
  23. Well, this episode was the exactly the short of thing I wish they had done for Leonard and Penny's wedding in the first place. In a vacuum where this episode would have stood alone, I would have simply really enjoyed it, except for the fact that Sheldon is regulated to the background position of being totally clueless the entire time. I suppose that's IC for him, not to understand the dynamics of what's happening around him, but it went a little too far and just makes him seem so stupid. However, taken in context of everything else that's going on and where it happened in the season and what's gone before, I just toss my hands a bit. I wish that Leonard and Penny had not gotten married in Vegas over Leonard's revelation about cheating, that they could have spent the first half of the season dealing with the issue in parallel to Shamy dealing with theirs, and then, when everyone came to a good place and understanding, they decided to start planning an actual wedding. And the last two of three episodes could have been doing the whole thing right, with all of the amazing guest stars and other family members we haven't met but have been curious about, and we would have ended the season that way. I think that, with everything else that happened this season, particularly Leonard and Penny not moving into their own place because the writers are not ready for that, so much of it would have made more sense. But, obviously, you can't change the past. And so we go into another Leonard and Penny wedding that will, once again, bridge over the summer months. Oi. At this episode was solid and funny for the most part. Howard and Raj freaking out over the government thing went on too long, I think, but whatever. And you can hate Bev, but love Christine Baranski, right? I mean, what she does with every line and grimace and smirk and stare is to be marveled at; she is so brilliant and so funny. Laurie and Judd were incredible as well, but Christine just takes the cake for me. I really, truly felt that Beverly was honestly upset about seeing her ex-husband, and that she is hurt about the end of their marriage and still hasn't gotten over it at all. It's weird, but I feel for her.
  24. That's an opinion I am never going to understand. I've seen anything as humiliatingly jejune as that moment in the series. Those outfits were horrific and ugly, their behavior was just plain moronic, and I wish nothing but buckets of brain bleach on everyone to forget it happened because it was trying so, so hard to be young and fun but only came off as desperate, pathetically desperate. Because who does that? Who puts on bad lingeree and then goes around frolicking and throwing confetti at their roommates? No one does that. No one I have ever seen does that, it's just a desperate attempt to regain some aspect of youth they never even had, and that's pathetic. Reason gazillion to loathe the back half of this season.
  25. I haven't called anyone ignorant, nor in denial if they're currently pleased with the show or the ship. Watching the show and then how you feel about it is totally fine by me. Especially when you can verbalize how you feel and what you think about it eloquently, as you have. What is not fine is when people directly harass, in ways both direct and passive aggressive, anyone whose opinion they find negative or unpleasant and attempt to create an atmosphere in which those opinions are clearly unwelcome. I don't feel any particular drive to strong-arm anyone into sharing my own opinion, which is currently critical of the show. I'm not offering up a plate of cookies and saying, "Come to the Dark Side." But I am dealing with being brushed off with such judgmental calls as being a killjoy, nitpicker, overthinker, projector, and that's just the past two weeks or so. And other people have gotten it far worse than I have.
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.