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Everything posted by Lionne

  1. @2L344 - my post isn't aimed at you or even anyone specifically. It's just the word "patience" triggered me to digress on an issue that's been a simmering frustration of mine for about 2 years, maybe longer. Actually, I think it goes back longer, as I can precisely pin the first instance of it to "The Weekend Vortex" episode. I remember there were some posters who were really pissed off to see Sheldon treat Amy the way he did there - the first instance of him blowing off a social obligation with Amy to hang out with the guys, actually. Seriously, 4 years and a huge break up later and we're still hitting this plot line - and they got smacked with a lot of people telling them to stay positive, that it was not a big deal, and their opinion was apparently ruining it for everyone else. I didn't get it then and I don't get it now either. If one person watched an episode and says, "that sucked and I hated it," that's just their opinion and while I get it's not fun to disagree, I don't get the "shun the non-believer" or "you just pissed in my cornflakes, you bitch" response. And as someone who basically feels recently (although it's been off and on for years) ex-communicated from the Shamy fandom, or basically saw the writing on the wall and decided to leave rather than continue to be an annoyance to everyone, I'm touchy. Also, everyone goes through their phases at different times, and I held on through the break up and felt really rewarded by their reconcilliation. But the messages from the back half of the season has been a bit of a blow to me, I've never felt like I didn't ship Shamy like I feel right now, so I'm in a bit of mourning. Over a lot, admittedly. 3 members of my family, including my last living Grabdmother, have died in the last month and a half, and I've been to too many funerals and am in mourning anyway. The Shamy AND the fandom, the people I liked, were a feel good for me for years, and right now when I probably need them most I have...this. So yeah, I'm touchy and no, my post and thought process was inspired by something you said about patience and hopes for a better Season 10, but in no way aimed at you. I've always enjoyed your posts and our interactions, and I'm sorry for confusing you. @Tonstar17 - a recent photo of Jim and Mayim looking poker faces while others laughed at a table reading made me wonder what they think about the writing. Both went on record saying they did not like the break up. Jim is on record saying he wants more pillow talk scenes. So I doubt he's thrilled about where things have gone the past 4 months. However, when you are paid $1 million per episode, I don't think you stop caring about your character or your job. In fact you might care more than ever. But you might feel you have no leg to stand on to complain, as you know it's too easy for someone to say, "go cash your million dollar check and stop whining about it."
  2. And this is something I can deal with, and doesn't make our opinions seem at all far apart, vs. being told how to feel or speak (stay positive or you're a killjoy and you're ruining this for me) either on forum, Facebook, or Twitter posts that for whatever reason people don't seem to think other people can read even when they are posted publically. (Still having a chuckle over "Mellowed Ringleaders," although I think that one wasn't aimed at me specifically.) i don't know what to say about Shamy and their love and their future....and I think that's because the writing decisions have had me too aware of the puppet masters. Instead of being able to look at Sheldon and Amy has characters who sort of live and breathe for me - I think you know what I mean, characters or a story you love so much they become very real to you, you become emotionally engrossed in them, which is what good storytelling is supposed to do - I'm too aware of the strings being manipulated by the writers right now to be able to buy into the characters full scale. And this is a huge part of why I'm staying out of the Shamy thread; apparently that's just for fans, and right now I don't think I've got the cred to belong, especially when it's been a season where all skeptics have been full on attacked. I'm not going to get into the details of that, but it is there and it is ugly, and no one is innocent. Myself included. In any case, I could not agree harder with a lot of what you said, particularly about relying on guest stars for the season finale. I have said that I'm glad there's no big dramatic cliffhangers to end the season - we've had enough of that. But the fact that many of the season's storylines were not resolved, and the last two episodes of the season will be guest star heavy and introduce plots for the parents, rather than focus on plots of the main 7, is really weak.
  3. I think that this post highlights why there's a pretty deep divide in the Shamy fandom. From my perspective, as someone who has followed the show and shipped Shamy as a couple in real time, my well of patience has been bled dry. With one notable exception, every single fellow shipper that I connected with back in the beginning feels the same way. But there's a different crowd or set of people who have come along in season seven, or even more recently than that, who have watched in syndication or marathoner episodes to catch up very quickly, and they have a different perspective and different experience, I think, than I do. Seeing, or hoping, that Season 10 will put things back on track is very optimistic to someone who watched the Season 6 D&D sex game between Sheldon and Amy or the Season 7 train kiss, and had a lot of filler between those two events and the climax of the middle of Season 9. Seeing as how that was pay off for several years of one step forward, two steps back, seeing Shamy regress yet again in the back half of the season to the same old dynamic has tapped the well; it's run dry. They may change things back up again in Season 10, but it'll be too late for the shippers I originally met in Seasons 4 & 5. With the exception of phanta, all of those people - Meg, Marisol, Lauren, Kath, Sursonica, Anjelica, Jexx, Marina, Stef, MusicKat, etc - are long gone. And another group who I met around the Season 6 mark have also dropped, or are in the process of dropping. And I fully understand why they left or are so annoyed and agitated with the show and the ship at this point; it's been too long, Amy as a character has changed too much and been treated too much as a plot catalyst, Sheldon has changed and become far more infantile than ever, and that original compatibility, connection and communication they had has been sacrificed for romcom relationship conflicts and cliches to write around. Presently, with so much "HAVE FAITH" and "STAY POSITIVE, REJOICE FOR RAINBOWS AND UNICORNS," it seems you need something like blind religious conviction to continue shipping and be welcome in the fandom. I'm the wrong girl for that, and I'll show myself the Church of Shamy back door with the rest rather than stay where I don't belong anymore. The show's basic pattern for the last 4 seasons shows that the show takes long periods of time between their milestones, and even when they do hit those marks, if they are not ready to subscribe to the changes necessary and organic after the milestones have been hit, they'll do damage and retcon or rewrite what came before, and ruin it. An example of the old way was the change after the first time Amy kissed Sheldon at the end of Season 4. We never heard Sheldon say "she's not my girlfriend" afterwards, and he asked her to go steady with him by episode 10 of season 5. That's hitting a milestone and having things change until you follow that up with the next milestone in their relationship, and they used to follow one after another at a slower pace, but it was charming because there was a sense of true courting about the process, which fit the characters. The thing is....for me, the first half of this season showed they were capable of writing a story with pace and progression when they want to. What is confusing is when they get into periods where apparently they just don't want to - perhaps they just want comedy, perhaps they are stalling for time due to contract negotionstions, perhaps they burn out since things really go wonky on them in the second half of their seasons rather than the first, perhaps their drive is to write towards what's easily digestible in syndication where they make the real money - I have no idea. So is it possible that they'll finally mine all of the changes and plot potential for not just Shamy, but the whole show, come Season 10. Sure, of course it's possible, but where's your evidence? The D&D scene at the end of Season 6 lead to the train kiss but Sheldon fleeing town to end Season 7. Season 8 had the "I love you" and ended with Shamy breaking up. Season 9 saw them broken up, getting back together, having sex, and now dithering around and, after this last episode, falling back into what Amy said was their whole pre-break up dynamic. I am not going to "rejoice" and have FAITH in SHAMY they are ENDGAME because It's not the destination, it's the journey. It's not the "happily ever after" to end the book, it's the story of how they got there. And at risk of sounding like an old grouch, I'll say this: as a Shamy shipper from the very beginning who has shipped them for 6 years, I'm done with new whippersnappers who has been into the show and the ship for a lot less amount of time telling me to stay positive, or otherwise policing my feelings and perspective.
  4. Actually, I think in the end Penny did try to blast Beverly. Penny tried to bond with Beverly for what, half a day? But it didn't take too long for Penny to lose her patience and start to tell her off for the snotty things Beverly was insinuating. The problem was that Beverly is not an easy person to tell off - she's a cool-headed, brilliant psychologist who flipped the argument on Penny and put her on the defensive without batting an eyelash. The other problem is that Penny has been far from perfect herself, and that's always been something she's sensitive about. Beverly is admiring the other girls for being brilliant and high-achieving, and that's a sore point for a former (hugely unsuccessful) actress-slash-waitress who has found herself surrounded by PhDs and a NASA engineer. So Penny lost her temper and ability to think straight in an argument, and you're automatically going to lose without those things against the likes of Dr. Beverly Hofstader. Besides, as I was saying earlier, a fight is also about tactics. Going head-to-head on blast with the likes of Beverly achieves very little except emotional catharsis - is it going to change the past? No. Is it going to change the present? Probably not, and indeed you're taking a risk at making it worse if everyone digs in for more fighting. Will telling Beverly to be more loving make a genuine Ice queen of a human being be more loving? No, Bev is what she is. Are you going to make Beverly break down and apologize? Don't kid yourself, and be prepared for her to fight back, meaning that your flank better be well-defended and immaculate, and as Penny quickly found out, hers was not. Yeah, all those years of flying by the seat of her pants, never planning anything in a thoughtful manner, but doing what she wanted when she wanted without thought to others or the larger context caught up to her. Beverly turned those tables in a snap, because Penny just went for an emotional outburst without thinking. Personally, I think the better tactic is that living well is the best revenge. Beverly is a divorced, middle aged woman who lives what I would guess is a more or less lonely, solitary life. Leonard and Penny are young, and they have each other and many close friends. Instead of engaging Beverly in a blistering argument, Penny can engage with her doting husband and life a lovely life, and build herself a great life. All that happiness and what is does to Beverly is far more powerful and rewarding than screaming at her for 10 minutes. Accomplishes more too. The fact that they came to truce, of sorts, with Bev admitting that Penny made Leonard happy and Penny willing to redo a ceremony for Bev, was sweet. Also, as cold and clinical and uber-intellectual as Beverly is, her confession still highlights why she's not the epitome of all evil, which is that Leonard's happiness still means something to her. She wants him to be happy, even if she's totally confused as to why all this warm, unconditional loving stuff makes people happy, because hugs and such are not what work for her. At least Bev is tentatively willing to accept empirical evidence of her son's happiness and value it, even if she's such an alien, anti-social person on her own that she totally doesn't understand it.
  5. Well, we also know Penny loves football, can teach the boys how to fish, wears too much plaid (jk), and I think Wyatt HAS called her slugger on camera? Penny also knows how to fix a tractor and carries a Louieville slugger for home protection. Every so often, basically, we see flares of this tomboy streak in her, even though she seems pretty girly most of the time. I always assume that's due to her Dad's influence.
  6. It's been mentioned that Penny picked Beverly up at the airport, or Leonard asked her to do so, but it hasn't been noted that Leonard actually asked Penny to flat out bond with his mother. In fact, he sort of tricked Penny into the whole arrangement, and kicked it off by calling her a "sucker." Basically, Leonard walks in and asks Penny to go with him to pick up his Mom if she's not doing anything else. Penny agrees, and then Leonard changes it to having Penny pick up Beverly herself, without him. He explains that it would be a good chance for Penny to bond with her, as she's the MiL, after all. Penny agrees, if it means that much to Leonard, at which point Leonard thanks her and then calls her a sucker for falling for his reasoning. Instead of hitting Leonard over the head with a rolling pin, Penny actually goes through with it and tries really hard. She picks Beverly up, takes her home and invites over Amy and Bernadette. So while Leonard skips off to the comic book store and then the movies with his buddies, Penny holds down The fort solo, entertaining his Mom and trying to bond with her. Which is difficult as Beverly bonds more easily with the other two female scientists, and keeps casually giving Penny the brush off. But with some assistance from Bernie, Penny manages to get a compliment out of Beverly, and agrees to a wedding redo. From my perspective, Penny goes the extra mile to bond with Beverly, and she does so and puts a lot of effort into it, solely because Leonard asked her to. Penny may have her moments of not seeming all that loving towards Leonard, but this was not one of them. If Beverly should or should not be thrown to the wolves is certainly an interesting question. She was a cold and domineering mother, but then again that's who she is as a person, and she seems somewhat deluded on an intellectual level that her methods were actually effective for the ultimate goal of raising smart, successful children. Leonard's relationship with her is complicated, and it's up to Penny to follow his lead with her sometimes. If he's going to maintain a relationship with his mother, Penny has to deal with that and make it work. But I would note there's ample evidence of Penny trying to reverse Beverly's influence, like back when she threw him his first birthday party as a surprise once she found out Beverly never gave him one, ever. (It's so stupid she can't remember his birthday. Again, a quibble with the writing.) She clearly made every effort and was loving and understanding over Beverly's book, and the only one at fault for that turning around is Leonard, who exploited Penny's sweetness and empathy and had to pay the price. I think Penny picks her battles against Beverly's influence wisely, by giving Leonard new feedback - she's loving towards him mostly, she tells him he's sexier with some backbone, she throws him birthday parties, she cheers him up with kisses and physical affection - instead of doing battle with the woman herself, which would achieve nothing. In short, Penny seeks to give Leonard a different and more loving experience, engaging him rather than his mother.
  7. @stardustmelody - I think the thing that kills me the most about it is that the move would literally be nothing more than 30 feet across the hall.
  8. Ha. The same old joke they used to end the Speckerman episode, widely regarded as the worst episode of season 5. Pretty much due to that joke in the tag ruining an otherwise decent episode. But yeah. They might have their lowest ratings ever, but they still won the night.
  9. Apparently TBBT's ratings have just hit 6 and 8 year lows, doing as well as season 1 ratings, which are their lowest. Still won the night, but their ratings numbers have dropped by millions. Considering that Opening Night was one of their highest rated episodes ever, a drop of that many viewers over less than half a season might cause some concern, no? Opening Night ratings - 17.2 million the evening it aired, went to 23 million with +3 ratings. last night's episode - 12.2. So a 5 million viewer drop between the two evenings, for people who tuned in to watch it Thursday night. For Shamies, you'd think that's a good thing, as the couple is popular. Which is why I find it almost un fathomable to see them regress now. But it's not completely impossible to understand. I said almost un fathomable, but I can see a twinge of logic, or at least writer's logic, in what's happening. Molars said in an interview this season that having Leonard leave 4A would change the show in some way, that we shouldn't look for him to move out because it would change what people expect the show to look like if that happened. They have created a boundary which they are unwilling to cross. As a result, I think they slam themselves against the wall repeatedly with the character's internal motivations and actions, rehashing the same tired stuff, because anything else would carry them forward where they are unwilling to go. The episode where Leonard and Penny's fighting over whose relationship with Sheldon is more messed up, all related to their living arrangements, which was abruptly ended and abandoned by the deux es machina of Howard's peanut allergy is a good illustration of it. The writers push them towards the point something should break, but save themselves with an outside distraction, something from left field to get them out of their corner. The living arrangements affect a lot. As Tensor points out, it's financial folly to pay for two apartments if one isn't being lived in. If Penny has credit card debt and Leonard has student loans, why are they paying for the unused apartment? Why don't they talk about this stuff since financial issues, and the secrets they keep from each other about them, keep cropping up as hot topics? Well you can't, or the living arrangements become too glaringly stupid. The living arrangements are also going to stifle Amy and Sheldon too, and it's safer to play that Sheldon indeed has no sexual drive or interest despite the fact he's tasted the forbidden fruit, because you know if Shamy progressed and Amy started spending the night, and Lenny overheard them having sex in his room, they would be vacating so fast! Increased sexual intimacy or an engagement would hurry Lenny out of 4A, and they won't do that, so they have to drop back to status quo. But in doing so, they've regressed and ruined all the season's earlier progress. After all the reasoning I heard about how the break up was necessary to create Shamy progress, and the jubilation over the progress reached once they reunited, I don't understand how the same voices who were so stringent about the break up being necessary for growth can be satisfied with this pay off. The parallel reversals are the icing on the cake for me. Sheldon gave up Star Wars for Amy, but blows her off for a lesser movie. Leonard financially floated Penny for years, finally buying her a car. Penny becomes flush and sells the car, proud to be making bank, and buying poor Leonard with his student loans toys to cheer him up. Now Leonard has secret savings and Penny has credit card debt, so she can't give up her job and he won't give her money. The flip flopping about their finances is illogical, and more relevant than ever as they are married and their financial situation happens to affect the other. Raj melted Emily by being so guilty over also merely emailing with Lucy; she thought his sensitivity was adorable. Now he's completely different, bedding two girls at once, bragging about it, being callous to a woman he dated for two years. Beverly thanked Penny for not inviting her to the wedding, now she's hurt by being left out. It's not just incongruous, it's directly incongruous, which is one of the weirdest things about it. I mean, it's just ironic that Sheldon sacrificed the Star Wars premiere just a few months ago, but tosses her for a lesser movie here. Molaro said that they could go with Bernie being pregnant, but not Penny, because whatever happens to Bernie won't change anything, while what happens to Penny does. So they are unwilling to take risks or make changes, and the problem is that they have turned potential stepping stones for plots into massive stumbling blocks. I think that the ratings are beginning to reflect that issue.
  10. But Cam, he called Amy a peach. Surely we can swoon over that and fan wank the rest, right? Not like the fact Sheldon put a 3 minute limit, clothes on massage - Meaning the joke is that he still doesn't want to TOUCH her, a fact she's whining and moping and sad about - should give pause to shipping this couple. Seriously, the point is that he doesn't want to touch her. Still. Now. You said in a post recently that the show made you feel like a fool. I thought the same. The show is making me feel foolish for shipping this couple, and even after coitus the jokes of Amy desperately wanting more physical intimacy and Sheldon having no desire or interest are coming fast and furious. And I think that's the point of no return - I never thought the writers would be so cruel as to withhold Sheldon's desire once they reached this stage in Amy and Sheldon's relationship. With the train kiss, you could see Sheldon's desire and change, how it rocked him and made him realize he might need to re-evaluate his previous convictions. But with coitus, he did it to make Amy happy, as a gift to her, but not out of his own desire, and since then there's no hint of that desire. Indeed, we get jokes like the massage ones - Sheldon equates a massage to groping her, and doesn't want any other man doing it. But he doesn't want to do it himself either. Genuine narcissism there, actually. What's to ship? And what about Sheldon evoking Rosa Parks, and Leonard turning to Raj and asking: "Is this a time we can pretend you're black to avoid getting beat up?" Wow. And Kunal has to sit there and grin through that one? That was uncomfortable.
  11. Unfortunately, I see things from the other perspective. The story about Sheldon massaging her only once for 3 minutes, setting a timer first, topped off with the fact she "felt like a soft boiled egg," was so sad. It's another area where, like Stuart, pathetic is supposed to be funny, but I only see what it is - pathetic. Between that story and her ranting to Beverly, apparently at length, it just came off as Amy sitting and moping and complaining about her relationship. There was nothing uplifting about it; it was just dour. It definitely kicks me in whatever shipper feels I have left, which I admit are not many, and since the whole episode kicked off with Sheldon and Penny having another entertaining moment on the couch by comparison, I really feel down about the whole Shamy affair. I kinda wish I had just stopped watching and hearing about the whole show at Opening Night, and walked away from it there.
  12. Meh....? The first episode where I thought that if you cut Sheldon out of it entirely, I might have really enjoyed it. Even the thing on the couch; have I just gotten bored with his character at this point? This totally clueless Sheldon, combined with that painfully long scene in which he takes overbearing to an overbearing extreme, just made me want to keep yelling at him to shut up. I didn't even get that Kardashian joke, and for the love of Mike, how stale are Kardashian jokes?! How pathetic if you're writing and relying on Kardashian jokes in this day and age. It's not even the low hanging fruit, it's the fruit that fell off the tree 10 days ago and it rotting in the grass. For shame, writers. Sheldon was my favorite character for a long time. It feels so weird to actually start rooting for the guy with the obnoxious hair to punch Sheldon in the face to shut him up. And yet I was repeatedly rooting for the guy with the obnoxious hair to punch Sheldon in the face to shut him the f*ing hell up. But the rest was actually fairly comical, and I really liked all the scenes with Beverly. Especially Beverly and the three girls. Beverly and Penny in the car were a little more painful, because it's hard to listen to a character make snarky, exasperated side commentary that the other person can clearly hear, and I just don't believe that Penny would say some of those things out loud. That was not exactly realistic dialogue. Probably the best gag and jokes were Raj and his stick chair. The insults and his face as he handled them was pretty funny. It all still feels stale, though. The Shamy stuff was definitely the low point for me. Stuart tried his best, but since all his actions were tied to the same ridiculous premise as well as based on the "Stuart is pathetic and so poor he'll do almost anything for a buck" same old refrain, it did nothing for me. Stuart hit rock bottom with pathetic a long time ago, and he's stuck at pathetic because the writers think that's hilarious, but its never been that funny to me. It was cringeworthy some of the time, and now it's so old, with nothing ever changing or brightening with him, that it's just gotten so boring. As for Sheldon, I agree with Amy - he's come a short way over a long period of time, so it feels like he's come a long way. But he hasn't really come a long way, or rather, it feels he was making progress but now he's regressed back to an earlier incarnation, and it's one I don't enjoy watching. Sheldon was learning to apologize to Amy back in season 5. I cannot believe how everything about Sheldon in this episode felt so old, so done before, and so predictable I just wanted to tear my hair out. Which is where it all comes down to at this point - every line, every scene - it's so unbelievably predictable. How can I feel there's any spark to this when you can see all the punchlines coming a mile away?
  13. @mirs1 except for the thing about Beverly, I agree with everything you said. My biggest complaint about season 8 was that nothing happened to the main characters, except Penny getting a new job and the death of Mrs. Wolowitz. And the Shamy ILY? There was some great episodes and funny stuff in season 8, but not much happened. Which is part of why I loved season 9 at first - it was moving along at a good clip. Lenny got married, Amy and Sheldon had their break up arc, ending in them finally having sex. But I think that the larger disappointment is starting to stem from the other side of those events, and seeing how those big milestones haven't impacted anything, and saw no follow thru, combined with the fact the show has done this lack of progression too many times for people to ignore it anymore. If the big milestones for the show had no impact just here in the latter half of season 9, we'd consider it an oddity and think maybe things would pick up in season 10. But when Lenny got engaged at the end of season 7, spent all of season 8 ignoring their own engagement until the last episode, had their wedding overshadowed by an argument about fidelity and break up of two other characters to start season 9, and spend the rest of the season acting like a very poorly married couple and are still not living on their own by the end of the season? The show drags on too long with nothing changing, nothing happening, season after season. Even the truly diehard fans are disgruntled and disgusted, and it's a shame because all the material has been built and is right there to execute?
  14. Actually, when you make the statement "with no doubts" in very strong italics, that would be the one time to make clear that it's our opinion, not a blanket statement of fact. And I'm aware that italics are for emphasis without you needing to roll your eyes at me via emoticon. I'm pointing out the emphasis on "with no doubt" and saying it's great you feel it that strongly, but obviously not all people feel the same way. So strongly.
  15. It is. It's nice to vent it all and get it off my shoulders. Feelings and opinions are ever evolving things, I've gone through a lot of ups and downs with the show. Right now I'm in one of the down swings, but like I said before, this is pretty standard with TBBT's pattern. They struggle in the second act. You talk it out, move onto the next episode, the next season. But after all is said and done with this season, I've got a lot of doubts, and I've watched a lot of my old comrades fall off the radar and drop the show and the Shamy ship the last three years, and they're really dropping like flies right now. It's sad, but I can't blame them. I really can't.
  16. It's great that you have no doubt, in italics, and that's your opinion. I have doubts though, for reasons which I clearly stated at, as you have pointed out, great length. I don't write out of any obligation, I write because I like embracing the topic and I'm thorough like that. If you don't enjoy reading "walls of text," then I suggest that I'm the wrong person to engage in any sort of discussion. I really will not be offended if you chose to skip over me.
  17. Many people pretend, absolutely. Beverly is not many people - she is a unique and well-drawn character that we've gotten to know over 9 years. She is not sentimental, she is not caring towards her son, she is a cool-headed, calculated, professional psychiatrist who confronts and articulates her feelings clearly, bluntly, and often without regard to how they will make other people feel. She has no issue announcing she's feeling menopausal or insulting Mary to her face about her religion. She had no issue telling Penny, whom she had barely met, about her feelings about her divorce or taking care of her own orgasms since 1983. She will waltz right in the door and call her ex-husband a wrinkled old bastard. God knows she's not shy about her "Needy Baby, Greedy Baby," and putting every humiliating detail about Leonard's childhood and the way she dealt with it out to the public. Beverly is honest, brutally so, and when she thanks Penny for not making her attend the wedding or any sort of reception, and seems completely sincere in that gesture, it's something I should able to take at face value. That seems accurate to the character and the show didn't hint there was anything more complicated under the surface. If they wanted to have Beverly get upset about not being included in Leonard and Penny's wedding - which would be odd, as she has no normal sentimental attachments to birthdays or holidays, for example - then they could have gone there to bring about their finale without having her not care just a handful of episodes before. Her previous line was a throwaway joke, but now it's going to be reversed because they need the impetus for a wedding to bring a bunch of characters together for their finale, which they didn't have planned in any way at the time the other episode was written. When wowbagger talks about "the seams are showing" in the writing, she means things precisely like this. It was totally in character for Beverly not to be sentimental or interested in attending Leonard's wedding, and to thank Penny sincerely for not inviting her and making her endure the event. The about face, where she's now upset about it and confronts Penny, is a sudden change from her previous position and her previous characterization because a catalyst is needed to create a plot scenario that they want to make happen. Beverly has been "tweaked" to drive the plot, rather than plot driven by consistent characterization, and to me it comes across as lazy writing. Penny and Leonard redo the wedding with family, and we have an excuse to get Mary, Beverly and Leonard's Dad on the scene for some funny fireworks. Which is probably be funny, last time Mary and Beverly met it was hysterical, and it's also a joy watching two older, female, veteran actors just completely steal that entire episode. Master thespians are a joy to watch, and seeing Christine and Laurie finally playing off each other was awesome. If I could turn off my brain, or if this was not the season finale, maybe it wouldn't bother me so much and I could just sit back and enjoy it. Maybe if Penny and Leonard had called off the wedding in Vegas due to his revelation about kissing another girl while away from her, and spent the season hammering out some issues in their relationship in meaningful ways that had some impact and progression on the storyline, then it would have been really awesome to end the season with their wedding. It would feel earned, it would be something to celebrate, it would make sense! But instead we're going to bookend the season with two disappointing wedding ceremonies? One that is overshadowed first by Leonard's "cheating" confession and Penny's distress and denial about it, and then by Amy and Sheldon breaking up, and now one that will be overshadowed by not being shown onscreen (unless we're at the rehearsal dinner, and we'll pick up next season with the wedding and reception with family) and the antics of Leonard and Sheldon's parents. But again, it's repetitive - ending last season on Lenny zooming off to finally get married, only to hit a snag, and get married in the season opener. Now ending this season on a wedding redo, and since it seems open ended about whether the dinner we saw was like a rehearsal dinner or the actual reception after another ceremony, we might open next season on a continuation of Leonard and Penny's wedding. Which I almost hope for, by the way, because it was such a big deal that Penny didn't invite her own parents to her wedding, and her father would be so broken up about not getting to dance with her and such - if they're so interested in parents we haven't met yet, then it's high time to bring Penny's Mom along. Perhaps Penny's Mom would put both Beverly and Mary in their place and make them behave themselves at their daughter's wedding. That could be hilarious.
  18. Hee! Okay, I'm going to split this one in half - I give on the allergy thing, but not on the continuity errors thing. To me, "nitpicks about continuity" are valid critiques of the writing. The continuity problem on the show has changed from being extremely small potatoes - the only two I saw for a long time were Bernie being able to handle Sheldon (or children in general) like a champ because her mother ran an illegal daycare, to not being able to handle children at all while assisting Howard's magic act at a children's party because she just hates children, and Sheldon's age when his father died being changed to 14, when we had a story of his father being alive when he was at least 15. To have those be the only two glaring continuity problems on a sitcom over 1 - 7 seasons (there might have been some others, but I did not notice them) to where we are with the continuity errors today is part and parcel of complaints about the declining quality of the writing. Now the flip-flops even come really fast on their own heels - at the 200th episode Beverly cheerfully thanked Penny for sparing her having to attend a wedding, but next episode she's going to reveal that she was actually hurt not to be invited. I have to assume that Beverly, who has never been shy with her opinion, and never had a good verbal filter, was hiding her true feelings before? It's maddening, things don't make any sense, and it's not nitpicking - those "throw away" lines can haunt the show for a long time. Prince Faisal being a prime example of being mentioned once as a joke that lived on and on, until Bill Prady had a Twitter meltdown over it. Because this is what your true fans do - they rewatch these episodes multiple times and they know everything by heart, and you're insulting their intelligence and how much they care when you play fast 'n loose with the characters and the material as if it doesn't matter. When you love the show and you love the characters, it matters, and it should matter as much to the writers who are making their livelihood off having dedicated fans. The things people are "nitpicking" stay with you. It's amazing how many people watched the awkward interaction between Amy and Howard and said, "wait, but what about their Neil Diamond connection?" The Neil Diamond moment was a huge fan favorite, and I couldn't tell from the dialogue in this episode if they were really referencing it or not, because they never threw the words "Neil Diamond" into their reference of the last time they hung out together alone. So I'm not even sure if it's a real continuity error or not, BUT it's tripping a lot of people up and making them say, "hey, wait a sec, but that doesn't make sense because...." And that's all you need to provoke, really, to have a problem with continuity - creating a scene or scenario that makes your audience break from the moment because it doesn't jibe with their impression of the story as you've told it so far. This is happening a lot, which brings me to the allergy thing. Some people corrected me on the allergy thing, and I quoted one and said, "Gotcha," because I do appreciate being corrected on that. I don't need any more lectures about allergies. But here's the problem: part of why I'm messing up things up with Leonard and his nose/allergies/inhaler/whatever is going back to tripping over that continuity snafu before, when he had his surgery because of his snoring. Despite that show explicitly stating via Penny once, and Sheldon again another time, that Leonard does NOT snore, he suddenly had a raging snoring problem and had been Sheldon's "white noise machine" for years. Continuity error. So he had surgery to fix it - okay, so that was fixed. And he has a bunch of allergies to lactose, melon, etc, and he has asthma...I am sorry that I got confused, but it just seems like Leonard's nasal health problems (much like Sheldon's mental problems, which now include hoarding) anything from the warehouse of health issues that brand one as "nerdy" can be thrown onto Leonard. So anyway - I thought that his deviated septum was fixed when he didn't have a deviated septum before, he had asthma, and now he has nasal allergies, when before he had allergies to other things but not pollen. I get that I am wrong on that one, and I'm fine admitting that I'm wrong, but I think there's a reason why I would begin to get confused here, yes? As for the rest - glad we agree. I completely feel you on the rest of the things that you mentioned. The Ugh!Raj situation is particularly bad, for so many reasons - a big part of the problem is that Sheldon playing the third wheel to Penny and Leonard is mirrored in Raj playing the third wheel to Howard and Bernadette, and having that dynamic and the issues associated with it repeated in two areas on the show makes it very stale, very fast, and the writers flirt with the idea of changing it in both areas, but then drop it. That's a huge problem because both areas are major fan issues they'd like to see resolved, and flirting with the issue and bringing up other promising story lines without follow thru - while falling back on man, wife and best friend triangles with 6 out of the 7 main characters - is getting old times two. First of all, people were really intrigued by Raj and Emily. They had good chemistry, Emily was interesting, people liked the actress who played her, and having the guy who used to not be able to talk to girls finally get his first real long-term girlfriend should have had a lot of material to mine for the development of Raj's character. Last season's finale gave them a cliffhanger where Raj chickened out on breaking up with her, which made them even more interesting, because would Raj stay with Emily for the wrong reasons, and how nasty would a break up with Emily be, considering her creepy side? There was so much potential there for Raj to have his own storyline and not be a third wheel to Howard and Bernadette (who had not one, but TWO third wheels, because they were also dealing with Stuart), but it was squandered and the writers don't even treat Emily like a character who has been around for, when this season ends, a full 3 years now. So if you don't want Howard/Raj/Bernadette to be taking from the same well of issues and jokes as Leonard/Sheldon/Penny, the Raj/Emily storyline was right there, and fans were interested in it. But...somewhere we've gotten Claire mixed up into this, and Raj has gone from being a sweet, loyal, but very messed up guy with a strong "jerk streak" to just full Ugh!Raj (TM), and this issue will not resolve or even find any meaningful "pause" point before the end of the season. Second of all, if you wanted to keep Raj, Howard and Bernadette as a threesome you could have kept Raj single and done away with the Stuart stuff, and broken up Sheldon, Penny and Leonard instead. If people were interested in Raj and Emily, that pales in comparison to the fact that dealing with the living arrangements is one of the few issues the majority of the fanbase agrees on across ships. People have wanted Sheldon and Leonard to stop living together for a long time now - and they are led to feeling that way by the show itself! Penny and Leonard are engaged, and now married - the show has gone there and now people expect them to want to live in their own. But instead of Leonard moving out and across the hall with Penny, Penny moved in with Sheldon and Leonard! How exasperating is THAT? Not to mention that the show keeps hitting us over the head about the living arrangements - like Leslie Winkle congratulating Leonard on his marriage because she believed he'd live with Sheldon the rest of his life, and Leonard making that "er" face because...ha ha ha, he is still living with Sheldon! Or Leonard and Penny fighting because they are dealing with Sheldon and his Roommate Agreement as separate individuals, and not as a team - an issue which is saved from resolution by Howard's random peanut allergy, and now we know will also not resolve before the season is out. You know, by having Penny and Leonard move out into their own place, and relying on Amy to change up that dynamic. There's a ton of issues that the show could work through there - that it's more of a 4some now, with Amy included, like the wonderful "Game Night" episode or the 4 of them at the cabin together, so Sheldon is no longer stripped of all his dignity and any trace of adulthood by having to play man/dog/child/third wheel to Lenny. Have Penny and Leonard work through moving into together and moving on with their marriage, and perhaps deal with the way they use Sheldon as a crutch to avoid certain issues. Have Sheldon and Amy deal with moving their relationship forward, perhaps towards living together, now that they've had sex. All stuff that is right there, on the table, being hinted at in episode after episode as the seasons go on. There is a lot of comedy in the evolution of the characters, relationships and otherwise, that would go hand-in-hand with these issues, and I think it's completely understandable that when the show raises a certain plot line the viewers at home expect to see it carried through in some meaningful way. Even though Howard, Raj and Bernie thinking that they are being chased by the government and getting pulled over is funny, and Mary and Leonard's Dad hooking up out of hatred for Beverly might be funny (or squicky, and OOC for religious Mary, who was praying hard on the fact she was having sex outside of a marriage with a man she had been dating for 6 months), it's still frivolous filler that should have been indulged in the middle of the season (and they indulged a lot of funny but meaningless filler like this already) while, perhaps, wrapping up some of the big issues they've teased us with all season? And some the season before that? And the season before that? There is definitely time this season I would have willingly given up - Bernie/Leonard/Penny spying on Amy and Dave's date, for example. Sheldon and his random hoarding problem being another, Bernie's pregnancy being something I could have waited on until other issues had gotten wrapped up, Penny's career and financial issues raising their ugly head at random - to keep moving other plots that I know the majority of the fanbase is way more passionate about. So...we will end the season with Leonard and Penny redoing their wedding with family because a Lenny wedding is how to end the season two years in a row, Raj is not only still dating the woman he tried to break up with last finale but another one, Sheldon and Leonard's parents bickering and hooking up are going to steal all the thunder from the main cast for the finale, and that engagement ring has completely vanished off the radar as the virginity milestone has finally passed and been followed up with...nothing. As Beverly would say: Yikes.
  19. I don't like the jokes - I find them stale, meaningless, weak, and too repetitive - and when I tune in to watch a comedy that brightens my week that happens to be a problem. If you find them hilarious, great, but I am entitled to my opinion on each new episode and development of the show as it goes on. I definitely don't want the show to become a soap opera; I loathe those things, and I don't think that asking for better continuity or storyline follow through suggests I'm hankering for Leonard's secret, evil twin brother named Angelo to show up, kidnap him and hide him in the laundry room, while Penny finds herself pregnant and we spend the season wondering which one is the father! I like sitcoms because I love comedy and I love to laugh. I used to love this one more passionately than any other, ever, and I have never shipped anything, not even Anne and Gilbert Blythe, until Shamy happened. But I am not feeling it right now, and not being happy or very entertained with the show is different from not caring. I care, I'm upset at what is, to me, incredibly poor writing in the second half of this season after enjoying a really great first half, and I'm kinda in shock, to be honest, at how bad it is. And unless this forum has decided on censoring anything that isn't starry eyed adulation over every single thing the show dishes out no matter what, I get to speak my two cents the same as everyone else. As for how many times Sheldon has fainted - well, twice in the episode where he cuts his thumb. In the Halloween episode where Leonard gets him with the alien mask. I know there are others - Jim Parsons is usually great at fainting hilariously, but then you want to make him do it again because it was so funny the first....second....third...well, maybe it starts to get old when it's overused and the set up feels forced? As for fainting personally - I have almost fainted twice, but managed to sit down or step outside and sit down before losing consciousness. I have also simply gotten dizzy, or nauseated, and I don't see a lot of difference. But splitting hairs about fainting/dizziness or lectures on allergies is sidestepping the point, which we can already agree to disagree about - some people still find this funny, or at least not completely played out yet. I, myself, am tired of the same hackneyed material and I think that the show really needs a shake up to feel fresh and funny again. From the comments here, many of the reviews lately, comments on those reviews, and discussion of the show on other places, I am 100% confident that I'm not alone in that opinion. At all. And even if I was, I would be entitled to it, and you know that, as you also know I'm not going to be attitude policed into being a Pollyanna about it. This last episode had no humor, no wit, and no sparkle for me. The spoilers about the last two episodes are pretty "meh," although it's what I predicted given how many guest stars were lined up and who those guest stars play on the show. Going back to season 6, the show has a really weird pattern for me of starting out strong, and having a funny, interesting, dynamic first half of the season, and then it goes weird and "wonky," for lack of a better word, in the second half. That seems to get worse during years when contract renewals are an issue, and you get the sense that things are deliberately being stalled and you're getting a lot of filler to drag things out. It creates a problem with pacing, for one thing, but it also creates forced, inorganic, out-of-character content. Or just plain dislike able content, such as the Ugh!Raj plot line. YMMV, which is fine, but critiquing the show's writing is valid. I know I'm being accused of "overthinking," but I don't believe it takes more than two tiny brain cells rubbing together to look at a scene where Stuart has broken into the Wolowitz home to watch them sleep and come to the conclusion that's creepy, messed up, and not really funny. Overthinking - which is a hallmark of humor on this show. You'd think that a show with long conversations about Manbat Batman and featuring several geniuses would probably attract over thinkers to it's fanbase who would be embraced for their overthinking - is not even necessary right now to notice that the show seems disjointed.
  20. Never lived in the south, no. Seattle irks people's allergies a little, but not much, as rain usually washes pollen out of the air. So depends on the Spring we get, but I've never had any allergy problem. I have lived in Newport Beach in Spring, and had no issues, and visit Palm Springs every Spring with no issues, but perhaps Pasadena is worse or....just needed a joke in there? But Leonard's allergies do seem rotating, at times, depending on the joke they want to make. As for the difference between "fainting" and "getting dizzy and falling over," that's splitting hairs at it's best. Is there a difference? And does it change anything about the point that the comedic effect of Jim Parsons falling over or removing his pants seems something he's contractor obligated to do every season, with or without a good reason? And does this show not reference Scifi enough that it shouldn't have had to work so far to make a lame Star Wars joke with toast? Sorry, but that's gotta be scrapping the bottom of the barrel for your pop culture joke.
  21. Which is why Leonard had surgery on his nose awhile back, isn't it? For snoring and such, even though he didn't snore - Penny did. I suppose either the surgery or the writers ability to care about canon and consistency has failed. Allergies? To what? Leonard is lactose intolerant, and allergic to melon and some other things, but he didn't have a spring pollen allergy before, did he? Or it's just the game of rolling tv allergies?
  22. Is it bathroom humor just because one is in a bathroom? i think the scene might have been realistic, as realistic as the time Amy, Penny and Bernie were in the girl's bathroom. Only then I did not see their faces as they were doing their business, just their feet. This felt different....I was basically watching two men take a piss, and even though the lower parts were covered, that's still what I was watching, and it was just a little too intimate. As a lady, that really made me uncomfortable.
  23. He had 112 friends on MySpace that he had never met, and that was the beauty of it. If you want to explain who Frank and Alicia are you have to head cannon a lot, but there's no obvious answer. Alicia, the girl who lives upstairs? Did she and Sheldon secretly become friends? That would explain why he had proximity to her, and perhaps her boyfriend Frank, so no one noticed. Or perhaps these friends are imaginary. Perhaps they are grad students Sheldon is grooming for world domination. Who knows? Between his bosom buddies and hoarding tendencies, the guy who was constitutionally incapable of keeping a secret now has a lot of them. Perhaps Frank and Alicia don't exist, and Sheldon is pulling one of his legendary pranks? No idea, but it ends up coming across weird. Personally, I thought his line suggested that Frank and Alicia live under the sink. Perhaps they are imaginary. Something in his delivery made me want to quietly call for a straight jacket, because He really seemed....off....when talking about them.
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