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Erm, yeah, it was about sex. Mayim thinks so too... As I said, there are no life threatening reasons why this should be Amy's last birthday, so no reason for any limitations. The limitation relates to sex. Do you really think Sheldon's actions were entirely selfless? He has no interest in sex.

But that doesn't tie in with "be with her" as a euphemism for sex. And you can argue that it isn't, but the whole conversation was about sex and his fears of becoming overwhelmed. So if we remove the euphemism, "you only have a limited time to have sex with her" is pretty blatant in its meaning and explains both the speed with which the sex occurred after their reunion as well as Sheldon's continuing disinterest in the act after the event.

This! Exactly this! You see if the line about "seeing StarWars any time" was not there then I would agree with the obvious meaning that Shamour and April mention. But it is there, and that changes the meaning. "Being with her" (a euphemism for sex because Sheldon is already 'with' Amy relationship-wise) is time-limited. However, there is no limit placed on when he can see StarWars. So, why is sex with Amy time-limited? Neither are elderly, neither have a life limiting illness. The window in which he can "be with her" is the only thing subject to limitation in Sheldon's imaginings. Why?

Hmm, there's a lot of talk here about Sheldon's motivation and timing for coitus with Amy, and plenty of mention about the role of Professor Proton and his ghost psyche, however, I don't see mention of one particular line. Why did Professor Proton/Sheldon's unconsciousness say that "there is only a limited time you can be with this girl"? Why did Sheldon feel his time with Amy was "limited"? What did he think the outcome would be if he didn't 'put out'? That she'd leave him? Find someone who would deliver the goods?

I think you'll get a redo eventually, now's too soon. They only just got married! I'll bet they'll split them up again first and then, after some soul-searching, you Lennys will finally get the wedding you actually deserve.

(Attritube? Attribute!!! Gah! I had Assemble instead of Ensemble the other day and an erroneous A in my vicarious...I either need to go back to school or get a feckin' spell checker installed!)

Often Sheldon storylines are disguised as Lenny plots. Sex sells. Odd Shamy sex especially! I think the parallel for Sheldon's wake-up will be in the failure of Leonard's parents sexless marriage and, for Penny, alarm bells will ring with Leonard's father's new relationship with "a waitress". I'm guessing this waitress is uneducated, but very, very pretty, and I'm also guessing her attractiveness is her biggest attritube as far as Leonard's father is concerned. +1 However, Amy's a biologist, and even if she wasn't, it doesn't take a genius to work out that Sheldon is not your run-of-the-mill heterosexual man. He is obviously prepared to do this for her. We can only assume she is at peace with it, even if perhaps she's more than just a little sexually frustrated by the situation. Clearly though, she doesn't take his lack of interest personally.

He turned down Bernie's medicine in the 'Empathy' episode, perhaps they're utilising that here? Leonard's Dad is being featured for a reason, there has to be a learnable lesson in the offing. My predictions are Sheldon realises that to keep hold of his relationship he has to put out more than once a year, and Penny will get a glimpse of her future and not much like what she sees (and so scarpers). I can see the last ever episode being unicorns and rainbows but not what could be the penultimate Season finale. They need to bring the invested viewers back in the fall and frankly the quality has dropped too far to bring people back just for the funny, cause that ship has sailed (jumped right over a shark I think).

Oh I do so love being told what I think!!! Actually, I've told you I don't hate Leonard. Indifferent and apathetic is how I would sum up my feelings for Leonard overall, but he's not unlikeable, and I'm pretty certain he's not being portrayed to be either. The writers try to elict viewer sympathy for the character, and mostly succeed in doing so IMO. Leonard, as a character, is entirely necessary to the assemble. It's a "straight man" role and he serves as a counter to the more "whacky" characterization of the others. He has also been adopted by many Lenny Shippers who see parallels with themselves or just find vacarious pleasure in his love story with Penny. Personally I find him boring. I have no desire to watch a wholly good character, plus, it's simply not believeable or realistic. Of late Leonard's halo has slipped, and hallelujah for that, at last he's a little less dull! Who knows, I might even take an interest! Perhaps the writers are trying to reinvigorate the character, he had got pretty stale (and I loved him jumping rope and roared at his "sexy carrot" so they're succeeding somewhat)? Currently though, he's still 'Meh! Leonard' with me. Which is why Sheldon is such a marvelous "villian". He rarely bores me. There is a difference, see above. That's why I said up thread that you can't compare someone taking advantage of getting a lift in a car to someone taking advantage of another person's body. They are two different things, very different, opposite in fact!

The thing with sex, kinky or otherwise, is that if you are deceiving a person in order to get what you want then you're not both equal participants in the act are you? Someone who is being played cannot make a clear judgement on what they want out of the encounter. Way back I gave an example of women who disguise themselves as boys in order to seduce other women. Now, using this argument, you could say the girl's said yes to sex and wanted it, but no-one in their right mind would. It's clearly abuse. No two ways about it. And it's abuse because deception was used. But this is an extreme example. A less extreme example would be the guy who poses as a millionaire in a nightclub to trick a 'gold-digging' girl. Still an example of deception of course, but would one have a great deal of sympathy with the 'greedy and shallow' girl? Perhaps not, but it's still deception, and it's still wrong regardless. Oh, and I don't hate Leonard BTW. I don't have strong emotions either way concerning him. "Meh" sums my feelings up if you're really interested. Wowbagger has copyright on 'Ugh Raj' so I'm bagging (Geddit? Geddit?) 'Meh Leonard' for my own.

"He even tells Howard that Penny is trying to comfort him with sex and other things because of the feelings she brought up by reading, then asking him about the book" No he doesn't. This is purely your own head-canon, nothing more. Read the script sample again. This is you trying to justify Leonard's behavior. Leonard says no such thing to Howard. "..although he is not proud of himself.." Except he is. He is! He even bragged about it. Read the script sample again. "Also, it could be said that Leonard in a way is punishing her for what she insisted on doing with the book" I sincerely hope you're wrong because what sort of person tricks another into sex as punishment? Do good guys do that sort of thing? "Again where is the lie?" The whole scenario is based on deception. Leonard's deception and Penny's subsequent retribution. What did you think it's about if not that?

You don't like the term 'taking advantage' then? However you're happy that Leonard was 'milking it', cause you've all mostly agreed he was. Milking it? Milking it? Hmm what does that mean exactly, milking it? Let's see.... milking it taking more time or advantage than you're really due because you can get away with it. Short for "milking it for all it's worth." Potaaayto / Potaaarto http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=milking+it Perhaps you need to whoah, whoah, whoah yourself Carlos....hey you know what, I read some wise words on here recently that may help, let me see.... In Sheldon's voice: "Peace out (he says "homie", but I'll say) camelliayao" ...and I'll swap 'camelliayao' for 'Carlos'. Perhaps you need to heed your own advice?

Erm, no. SRAM wrote this. You need to read the tread properly JE7. I was answering this.....note the last line. I do not believe there was any trickery in this situation. Penny offered sex, Leonard (we assume) said yes. Quite upfront. Do you really not see the difference? At last, a sane voice in a sea of insanity! Leonard: Who just had sex with me at work. Howard: Damn. How’d you swing that? Leonard: Well, whenever I talk about how awful my mom was, Penny will do anything to make me feel better. Howard: Seriously? Leonard: Look, I mean, I’m not proud of it, but it does work. I got her to watch a six-part documentary on Monty Python. Even I was bored, I just wanted to see if she’d make it to the end. Howard: You sound kind of proud of it. Leonard: I am, I’m really proud.

You're comparing Penny using sex to manipulate and Penny being manipulated into sex as the same thing when in fact they are the opposite. Manipulating someone because you know they want to have sex with you has you in control of your body. Being manipulated into giving sex as succour removes this control. The person manipulating takes the control.

SRAM do you really believe that taking advantage of someone giving you a lift in their car is the same as taking advantage of someone's body?!

Sorry but that's not what Leonard told Howard..... Leonard: Who just had sex with me at work. Howard: Damn. How’d you swing that? Leonard: Well, whenever I talk about how awful my mom was, Penny will do anything to make me feel better. Howard: Seriously? Leonard: Look, I mean, I’m not proud of it, but it does work. I got her to watch a six-part documentary on Monty Python. Even I was bored, I just wanted to see if she’d make it to the end. Howard: You sound kind of proud of it. Leonard: I am, I’m really proud. Leonard did not mention Penny reading his Mother's book as justification, he certainly DID trick her, not only into sex but into watching a Monty Python documentary she didn't want to see. Why are you trying to excuse the inexcusable? Just accept it was a dick move by Leonard! Why's that so hard to do?

Penny held back sex for three months? Was that the beta test thing? Is that what you mean? I didn't see that as being a punishment. I saw it as them finding their feet and taking things slow. You're right, Leonard didn't need to lie to get sex from Penny. So the question is, why did he?

This sounds very much that you think the trickery on Leonard's part WAS just deserts? Really? REALLY?!! I don't think Leonard did it to get even. I didn't see it as some sort of revenge! I saw it purely in an oportunist capacity, that he did it because he could and it was to his advantage. Sh!t, seeing it as an act of revenge gives the whole situation a much, much darker tone....that's pretty f**ked up no? In answer to your question, calling Leonard out for being a dick does not mean that in contrast I believe Penny to be an angel. I did question why is this assumption is automatically made earlier.

Sarcasm? Abso-bleeding-lutely! Fallacy? Nuh-uh! Written from direct experience I'm sad to say. My realities may be your fallacies but we all experience life according to circumstance. Do you think your reality is the same reality as say Prince William's, or the alcoholic who's begging on the street, or Donald Trump's, or Stephen Hawking's, or a Syrian rufugee's, or Madonna's....I could go on....indefinitely...but YMMV suffices just fine I find.

Oh, and you have my absolute agreement that she was a rat-bag for doing so, however, you're not really trying to use this as some sort of justification for Penny being tricked into sex are you? Please tell me you're not! Please tell me you don't think that Leonard doing this was some sort of just deserts, because I truly don't see how manipulating someone into having sex with you is justifiable in any circumstance.

Oh, I didn't see Penny's "you probably deserved it" in a grudgey way at all. I read it as "yeah, yeah, nice try, 'cept I ain't buying it this time and, guess what, this ain't about you mister so I'm shutting you down" in four quick words. But each to their own, it's not obligatory for us all to interpret what we see in the same way. YMMV!

It's turned into more, but it started out as my opinion (and that's all it is, an opinion) about where I thought the line "you probably deserved it" came from. If Leonard had never tricked her into sex then I guess I'd also be here saying she's a nasty bit of work along with the Penny haters on here. I'm not a Penny hater, nor a Leonard hater. They are both portrayed as human and fallible IMO and I actually see the opposite of what you're accusing me of all the time on here; Leonard can do no wrong, Penny's a b!tch, two wrongs make a right. As I see it, Leonard is often wrong, so is Penny, and both of them treating each other badly doesn't excuse the behavior of the other. If you want me to list all the crappy things Penny's done then it'll have to wait till tomorrow, sleep is finally threatening as the birds start their dawn chorus....typical! G'night / G'morning!

Penny didn't realise Leonard was pretending to like things just to have sex with her, again another relevation. There wasn't any trickery on her part, just like she didn't realise that she never ever did anything that Amy wanted to do on their girls nights either. It just didn't occur to her. She enjoyed doing those things so assumed they did too. Yes, she could've picked another book, it would've been kinder, but I'm not here telling you Penny is always kind. Sometimes she's unkind.

And if I was arguing that Penny is wholly right and Leonard is wholly wrong then perhaps I would try to spin her behavior, but that's not what is happening here and once again we find ourselves in agreement. The comparible pictures were smily bright Penny and then frowny-faced Penny. Leonard was not in the first picture so no comparison to be made. Vasu, note the word "her". As I said above. This is not a case of one person being 100% right and another being 100% wrong. Why do you think I'm blinkered and unable to see Penny's faults? Each of them having faults does not cancel out the wrong-doing of the other.

Oh, I think the show's had it myself. I'm watching out of habit and faint hope that Sheldon may show some sexual interest in Amy, but even that seems unlikely as the Season nears it's end. That's why I think Leonard's parents example will be the catalyst to bring about a change so that Season 10 will be able to explore Shamy's sex life. I'm sure Penny has tricked Leonard plenty of times. Yes, Leonard's mother is (delightfully) awful....and hallelujah for that! She's a fabulous villain! If he hadn't bragged to Howard then Penny would've been none the wiser. Bernie told Penny because it was ongoing and Penny had the right to know that she was being played. Why she kept sctum about Mandy is anyone's guess.