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Martian Girl

The Female Geeks Apology

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that people tend to dislike geeky girls in the show - or, if they are seen in positive way, it's 'in spite of' their geekiness. The best example is Leslie Winkle, who was often judged as almost as heartless a bitch as gravity - but Amy also annoys many. (Though I agree that secondary female geek characters - like Stephanie and Ramona - are not shown as very sympathetic by the creators of the show. Bernadette may be an exception, but again, she's not really that much geeky.) At the same time, geekiness in male characters is (and no wonder :) ) highly appreciated by the fans.

If I am right, what's the reason for the double standards? Leslie may be conceited and unromantic, but so is Sheldon. She may treat guys instrumentally, but the guys treat the girls in this way many times in the show. Amy may be too explicit if it comes to bodily matters, but so is Sheldon - and if she displays too much straightforwardness as far as sex is concerned, the same could be said of Howard (at least from earlier episodes). And Ramona was obviously meant to be ridiculous with ther obsessiveness over Sheldon's intellect and all, but this certainly isn't the first occurrence of obsessive behaviour in the show.

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Hmm, I think there's a distinction lacking here. Intelligent women do not automatically equal geeky women. Women like Amy, Bernadette, Stephanie, and Ramona are not geeks - not like the guys. They do not read comic books, play video games, or go to Comic Con or other conventions. They are, however, intelligent. The only two women on the show that show any form of geekiness are Penny and Leslie.

I can't speak for the men, but I don't think anyone has a problem with Leslie Winkle. Most want her back. As for Amy, she was boring in the beginning but then developed a personality instead of being Sheldon 2.0.

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If anything, I always thought the majority of viewers loved the female characters, save for Priya and Ramona (the latter is my personal opinion - she kinda creeps me out). Then again, I try to avoid others' personal opinions and analysis, as they tend to point out faults I otherwise wouldn't have noticed and ruin my experience.

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Have I missed an Ep or two?

Who the hell are Stephanie and Ramona?

Stephanie was Leanords girlfriends in S2 and Ramona was the creepy girl who forced Sheldon to do nothing but work. :icon_wink:

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Have I missed an Ep or two?

Who the hell are Stephanie and Ramona?

Stephanie was Leanords girlfriends in S2 and Ramona was the creepy girl who forced Sheldon to do nothing but work. :icon_wink:

Ok, they were such brief characters I'd forgotten them.

But Leslie Winkle I like and want back on a semi regular basis, as an irritant for Sheldon.

Sheldon I can't stand, and like to see stumped by females, like Penny does so well.

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Incognito - I see the distinction, but I disagree with it ;) Traditionally, a geek was someone at least slightly anti-social, very intelligent and interested in science and computers (maybe including games, but not necessarily) for the sake of itself, not for money. According to this definition, both Amy and Leslie are very geeky - unlike Stephanie, Priya or Bernadette, as they are so good in socializing.

And it's nice to hear that people want Leslie back. I really miss her!

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Incognito - I see the distinction, but I disagree with it ;) Traditionally, a geek was someone at least slightly anti-social, very intelligent and interested in science and computers (maybe including games, but not necessarily) for the sake of itself, not for money. According to this definition, both Amy and Leslie are very geeky - unlike Stephanie, Priya or Bernadette, as they are so good in socializing.

If you want to go old school with original and traditional definitions, a geek is someone who eats live animals - often a circus performer. A freak. Then the word (d)evolved into a pejorative, meaning a person who is socially inept and often focusses on a particular interest/obsession. Traditionally, the word was never synonymous with intelligence; however, nerd was and is.

Only in the today's technological society has 'geek' been elevated, at least when self-referencing. There is no longer a definitive meaning to it, so it's your interpretation of it, really. So, if you want to say that you're referencing to its original (traditional) meaning, then you're either using the definition of a live animal eating freak or a socially awkward person with an eccentric obsession.

Etymology's a heartless bitch. ;)

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OK, it was my interpretation (as AFAIK there is not, nor was there, any official definition), but I am willing to defend it :)

I wrote 'traditional', not 'original' (otherwise, I would be wrong, because of the whole thing with circus performers which you described), as I wanted to limit the discussion to the kind of geekiness represented by the characters from BBT. Anyway, people with hobbies which are perceived by others as childish are called kidults, not geeks. The four guys in the show know a lot about science and technology AND are interested in SF, conventions, comic books etc. AND are socially inept - so I think the best definition for this discussion should be based on these three points. Leslie shares all three features, Amy shares two of them (three, if her interest in alternative worlds counts), and the other girls share one or two.

But I also like your definition saying that geek is a socially awkward person with an eccentric obsession. However, if we embrace her, it turns out that almost all girls in the show are more or less geeky - just as I suggested :)

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I liked Leslie. It was nice to see her and Leonard together. Rekindled the bond the two actors shared when they were BF/GF in Roseanne

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Leslie Winkle is awesome! I count her to the guys.

Its not because your are a boy or girl. Its how you behave.

In Leslies case... she is acting cool and always on top, no matter whom she is talking to. Thats special.

Penny is a special case too. No geek, but over season 2 she learned to interact with geeks really cool. She knows what to answer, even if she doesnt understand. So are the mothers of Lenonard and Sheldon, one geek and always on top, the other knows to handle. :)

Stephanie had something of both and a good chance to stay in the show.

Amy isnt Sheldon 2.0 for me. For me she sounds a bit artifical not natural geeky like Sheldon. I mean I laugh about her and I like to watch, but I wouldnt miss her. But sometimes I see the actress and not Amy, if you know what I mean.

"And that is my Opinion!" :icon_eek:

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The German Scientist's quote reminds me: You guys remember that girl, at the mixer... Martha, I think her name was? The girl who was very into Sheldon, not knowing he's pretty much asexual? She seemed to be quite the geeky typer herself, knowing about the Green Lantern lantern and all! ^_^ And she seemed awesome, I would have chosen her if I were in Raj's shoes, back then! :p

Mostly saying that geek girls are awesome!

Maybe a little underused, thought, that I agree.

They also must bring back Leslie, from time to times! At least to annoy Sheldon a little bit! She was hilarious, that's for sure! :)

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I can't recall anyone named Martha in the show... Which episode it was?

Anyway, Leslie Winkle FTW :) I don't like her quarrelling with Sheldon but I really like the character.

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I can't recall anyone named Martha in the show... Which episode it was?

Anyway, Leslie Winkle FTW :) I don't like her quarrelling with Sheldon but I really like the character.

The episode is from the third season, it's called ''The Psychic Vortex''. If you don't recall, well, a quick summary: On one side we have Leonard, Penny, Howard and Bernadette who go on a double-date, and Leonard and Penny get in some fight over the validity of psychics. On the other (and, in this topic, more important) side, we have Raj who is feeling pretty lonely, and wants to go to a mixer the university is organizing. He convinces Sheldon to come with him to be his wingman by giving him a ''Green Lantern'' lantern, and they meet two girls, Abby and Martha.

So, yeah, like I said, Martha seemed pretty geeky in that episode, recognizing the lantern right away, for instance! Which was pretty awesome!

Honestly, if you didn't saw that episode, you ought to, it is very funny, especcially the ending! ^_^

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Incog covered it pretty well.

Personally I'm a gamer (with a teen history of comics followed by a stint in MtG) so the guys have that appeal to me where the ladies really aren't the gamer type.

The guys are constantly razzing eachother which, and I think this is true for all "guy circles", me and my buds do all the time. The ladies are more into razzing other (although there are some pretty good Amy/Penny zings).

So the best aspects of the guys aren't really mirrored by the ladies.

Of course, they're not supposed to be, either.

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I am coming back from the dead (haven't posted here in ages) to share my thoughts on this subject, since I am very interested in it.

First of all, I agree about the fact that pretty much all girls in the show are more "science nerds" than "geeks", meaning: extremelly intelligent, amazing at science, interested in scientific subjects even in their spare time, but not interested in comics, mangas, sci-fi movies, novels, tv series, table top games, videogames, etc... And I mean "science nerds" as a positive quality. I know that the term "nerd" usually has negative connotations, but that word is definitely a compliment in my dictionary. :)

Secondly, I think that most girls and women here really like Leslie, Bernadette and Amy. I certainly do! Amy was a flat and boring character at first (as someone said, a "Sheldon 2.0"), but she developed in a very interesting and funny character towards the end of the season.

In my opinion, there have been a lot of episodes in S4 in which the on screen time with the girls was as fun as the on screen time with the guys. This is definitely a big improvement!

Actually, this is pretty much the only thing that I like of this season, as I find the rest too mainstream, with the geeky elements and science "dumbed down" for the wider audience.

What's missing, IMHO, is a female character that shares the same love for comics, sci-fi stuff and games that the guys have, with the exception maybe of Leslie and Penny, though their interest in these things is only marginal.

Ages ago, I complained that, as a female who is a geek, I didn't really feel represented by any female character of the show. This is still true, though things got a little better with Amy and Bernadette.

There's no female character I can really identify with... but there's still hope for the next seasons! ;)

I think that having strong, smart and fun female characters that don't rely on their looks and place other things above being rich and beautiful is already a big improvement compared to what we usually see on TV or in the movies.

Forgive me for the long silence and for the long post that doesn't really add anything new to the discussion... Also, please do remember that "science nerd" is something I consider a positive quality. ;)

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Perhaps Sara Gilbert's "Darlene" character from Roseanne fits the female geek persona the best?

She was into comics, gaming, sci-fi and Johnny G :)

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