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4ofN

**** TAPING REPORT SPOILER **** Raj/Penny – good news or bad?

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At this point, I have moved away from the Raj / Penny situation specifically and I am more curious about how people make their ethical distinctions in general.

Perhaps my own sense of morality is from another age or another place. This wouldn't be the first time for me to realize that I perceive things differently from the general population.

Or maybe I should find the book that they bought Sheldon about sex. Perhaps that details the web of fine grey lines that seem to be woven around this issue.


I'll try to calm down now. I do become a bit of a pit bull when I find something that I find interesting and I like to dig down to the root of it.

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At this point, I have moved away from the Raj / Penny situation specifically and I am more curious about how people make their ethical distinctions in general.

Perhaps my own sense of morality is from another age or another place. This wouldn't be the first time for me to realize that I perceive things differently from the general population.

Or maybe I should find the book that they bought Sheldon about sex. Perhaps that details the web of fine grey lines that seem to be woven around this issue.


I'll try to calm down now. I do become a bit of a pit bull when I find something that I find interesting and I like to dig down to the root of it.

Well, I'll answer first;

It also seems that my sense of morality is different from the general opinion around here, but in the opposite direction! I mean, even if those 2 had sex, I just don't see why it's THAT big of a deal! They are both single, they are both consenting (well, drunk-senting, but still! :p ), and Leonard and Penny were broken up for nearly a year!!! There is something calling ''moving on'', and it does imply accepting that our exes have sex with other people, maybe even people we know and are friends with! Is it awkward afterward? Absolutely!!! Is it morally wrong? Sorry, don't see it!

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Well i think it's wrong based on the code. If there is a code.

1. You don't sleep with a friends ex.

2. You don't kiss your best friends first kiss.

etc. But as you say....people have different moral standards. If i was Leonard I would be upset with Raj even if there were no lingering feelings for the Ex. It's the principal imo.

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point is...touching a penis isnt sex.

^ phew !! Thank God !! I haven't been having sex with myself for the past 25 years !!

:p giggle

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If I were Leonard the least that would happen to Raj is a kick in the nads. Intent is important. They tried and that's wrong. I love the Penny character generally but Leonard would be better off to not be anything more than friends with her.

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Couple of things;

1) If you are going to quote a taping report shouldn't you give credit to the source? It's only fair.

2) In a real life situation Raj broke the code and should not be trusted as a friend and how could Leonard ever trust Penny again? I mean adult beverages are available almost everywhere and whenever. If they got back together and Penny gets depressed and has a drink? Could you trust such a person?

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Yep, I gave the source in the other thread. Ennaxor.

Ah....not once in there 8 month relationship neither Penny or Leonard did anything for us to question there faithfulness to the other.

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I agree with 4ofN, they had sex.

If my wife gave a hand job to one of my friends in my bed we'd be divorced, I don't care how much alcohol was involved.

That said, I do not think it should be much of an isue in the Penny / Leonard relationship as both of them were in diffeent places (relation wise). BTW I am a Lenny fan and I think it would be refreshing for a sitcom to allow them to have a happy stable relationship. I liked season 3 and loved Sheldon finding Penny dancing to Shania Twain while making breakfast.

Lastly, Raj is a pig. He had sex (or tried whatever) with Penny, He fantasized about Bernie he had sex with sheldons friend (the professor nympho, true Leonard did too). He has no friendship code where women are concerned. I'm supprised he isn't hitting on/fantasizing about Amy!

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I agree with 4ofN, they had sex.

It's not sex. Also where is hand job even mentioned? All thats said is Penny tried to help. Nothing about a hand job.

I agree with the Raj stuff 100% though.

I'm not trying to rationalize or diminish what happened, my point is, it wasnt Sex.

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I agree with 4ofN, they had sex.

If my wife gave a hand job to one of my friends in my bed we'd be divorced, I don't care how much alcohol was involved.

Absolutely!

That said, I do not think it should be much of an isue in the Penny / Leonard relationship as both of them were in diffeent places (relation wise). BTW I am a Lenny fan and I think it would be refreshing for a sitcom to allow them to have a happy stable relationship. I liked season 3 and loved Sheldon finding Penny dancing to Shania Twain while making breakfast.

This was one of my favorite episodes. Most of season 3 involved the core group and it was a better show for all that.

Lastly, Raj is a pig. He had sex (or tried whatever) with Penny, He fantasized about Bernie he had sex with sheldons friend (the professor nympho, true Leonard did too). He has no friendship code where women are concerned. I'm supprised he isn't hitting on/fantasizing about Amy!

I could not agree more. He is not some cute foreign guy. He's a whiner who prays on what others think is friendship.

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Well I can't disagree on the Raj stuff. His character will be dead to me forever.

But how do you get touching a penis = sex?

It's the 'Happy Ending' that constitutes sex. lol

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So, let’s just skip the word sex and concentrate on what happened.

Raj and Penny engaged in intimate physical activity and the only reason they didn't have intercourse was because Raj couldn't keep it up.

I think everyone can agree to that, so the question is really about how that affects their characters.

Saying that Penny and Leonard are no longer in a relationship may be true, but the show is all about their prior, continuing and eventual relationship. It has been about their relationship from the pilot on through the entire show. When Penny is with someone else, Leonard obsesses over her, when Leonard is with someone else, Penny obsesses over him.

Raj knows this. When he hears Penny declare that she should have stayed with Leonard, Raj decides to f%#k her rather than get on the phone to Leonard to tell him. Raj is therefore a rat bastard. He is certainly not a friend.

As for Penny, I don’t think she is a slut, but I do think that she has no real respect for Leonard to have considered having sex with Raj – especially in Leonard’s bed. Sorry, but the “I was drinking†excuse does not excuse anything.

As for Leonard, I mentioned in the original post that he will become a loser. This is not directly because of Raj and Penny having sex, but because the show will go on. Everything will become OK (according to the show). He will eventually hook up with Penny permanently – a woman who does not respect him. He will continue to be friends with Raj – a person who is a rat bastard and is not a real friend. He will continue to live with Sheldon – a person who continuously belittles his work (just something that has always annoyed me. Most scientists respect the experimental side as that is half of the scientific process.).

If I were Leonard in the show, I would probably start looking for a job in Boston and move away. It is actually possible from someone like him to get real friends.

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I can see where you're coming from, 4ofN. But I guess only time can tell how this'll pan out. Big question is... why end the season like that? Thinking about it, even I have my doubts, but I'll still keep watching TBBT.

(Btw, @4ofN: I saw recently, maybe a day or two ago, the birthdays listing listed you, so happy late birthday. :) )

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(Btw, @4ofN: I saw recently, maybe a day or two ago, the birthdays listing listed you, so happy late birthday. :) )

Thank you Master. :icon_cheesygrin:

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Happy belated bday 4ofn

I am here to solidify your stance.

I, too, am from a different time. Heck, I feel duels should be put back in place for dishonoring another(i Kid)

But we ALL agree Raj is a predatory jackass personality...and in fact, the characters take on the characteristics of the writers...so I would never be friends with Lorre or Prady and am beginning to think Charlie Sheen is the more morally righteous of the 3.

Anyway, we agree Raj is dirt for what he did...so let's focus on Penny and her relationship with Leonard from now on...if REAL world was involved.

She put up a DEAL BREAKER of actions by what she did.

Hypothetically, if I had a relationship and we broke up...she ran into the arms of ANY guy within a small time frame...our decision to break up was the correct one. Obviously I meant nothing to her.

If she drank with my friend and tried to have sex with him, they'd both be metaphorically dead to me. In my bed never the less...wow.

Now, I understand the character flaws of Leonard who wants undying approval from a woman, because he got none at home...but after 3 relationships in 2 yrs after having NONE in 15 yrs, you'd think he'd learn and become a bit more confident. We saw that in the boyfriend complexity, then he regressed. What Penny did was lower than low, going back to Kurt or getting an old flame back is one thing...Raj is a different moral code, and she failed. Any chance that Leonard gets with her after she has showed him no semblance of love or respect is unbelievable...even in TV land. The only OTHER explanation you could make is that she is so naive and gullible that a few drinks makes her do things unspeakable...another red flag that says you wouldn't want a relationship with that type of person.

Personally, Leonard hanging out with Raj seems to be something I could not do. Even nerds have some sort of honor...and many would say we have a higher sense than most. That would ostracize him from the group for quite a while...he'd still be Howard's friend and Sheldon could care less, but Leonard would avoid him...no doubt

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I agree I could forgive Penny long before I could forgive Raj.

If it was real and I was in Leonards shoes, Raj would never be in my circle of friends again. If I truely loved Penny (as the show suggests) I would probably forgive her because love is just like that. Might take awhile, but eventually I would give in. Which is where I see eason 5 going. Leo and Pryia break up and Penny spends the season trying to rekindle thing with Leonard. Season 5 cliffhanger ending show is them back in bed.

The further evidence that Raj is a Rat Bastard is that he fantasizes about Bernadette. Typically you fantasize about the type of woman that interests you. So, Bernadette is Raj's "type". Other than blonde hair Penny and Bernadette have pretty much nothing in common. So Raj slept with Penny (or tried to) purely for physical release. I could almost forgive him for hitting on Bernadette if he thinks he loves her (up until she got engaged). But it's still hitting on girls in your friend circle which is uncool any way you slice it. The old saying "Don't make boom boom where you eat".

And to those of you who say Raj couldn't get it up. The way I read it is he got it up, had trouble with the condom and when Penny went to assist he, ehum "finished early". Clearly he needs the research Bernadette will be working on.

The big question in my mind, is Raj going to tell Leo that Penny said she made a mistake (in breaking up with him {Leo})?

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Again, Everything you are all saying about Raj i agree with. But you all are being way too harsh on Penny imo.

She didnt have sex with Raj. I hated that what happened went as far as it did but for one.......she was drunk......for two...she was single.....for three.....they didnt have sex.

At the end of the day......Leonard is the only guy in the group Penny has been intimate with. That still is the case. Now When/If Leonard will find out Penny and Raj didnt have sex is still up in the air.

The episode ends with Leonard still under the impression Penny and Raj slept together. So my guess is eventually he will find out they didnt have sex but who knows when. It will basically be a nice surprise for Leonard that Penny and Raj didnt do the dance with no pants.

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Typically you fantasize about the type of woman that interests you.

Erm, hmm. For me that would be ALL women. I can't fault Raj on that account. Raj being interested in both Penny and Berny makes perfect sense to me.

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