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PENNY AND SHELDON MAYBE?


bigfan89

Penny & Sheldon a Couple  

149 members have voted

  1. 1. Penny & Sheldon a Couple

    • YES
      41
    • NO
      200


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Sheldon is so tall, he towers over the others.


Shaj makes much more sense then Shenny.

Time to inject some Mocha into the family tree.


I don't mind discussions about why we think the Shenny works or posing questions about it; but derailing the thread with absurdities because you don't like it, isn't nice or fun. Just go start an "I hate Shenny thread" and do you worst there. No problem.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azxFvvUtu40&feature=related

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I don't mind discussions about why we think the Shenny works or posing questions about it; but derailing the thread with absurdities because you don't like it, isn't nice or fun. Just go start an "I hate Shenny thread" and do you worst there. No problem.

That's not the point. I don't hate Shenny or have anything against those who ship it. Ship away, I don't actually care.

What bothers me, and many others is the "it's already happening, it's there!" attitude that some Shenny shippers have. Because it is building on a fallacy that can be easily refuted. Using the same logic, I was able to "hint" a Penny/Howard pairing, and I could easily do that with any other pairing.

The selective picking of certain moments while ignoring the whole other rest of the show for the sake of justifying the like or the longing of a potential pairing bothers me. The twisting of situations to make them fit into the "Shenny", absolutely distorting the real intent of the scene/episode/situation bothers me (example: the Tiara scene, which was taken by a lot of Shenny shippers as a "ah, Amy was holding him but he looked at Penny: ohh he was wishing he was the one holding him, they are so in love!!!"). Most often, it has me shaking my head and wondering "which show are these people watching", but sometimes it does bother me.

The attitude of "you don't see it because you don't want to see it" attitude bothers me, because in this case it's not there! If you don't wanna believe me because I'm a Shamy shipper, ok, fair point. But when I told my sister who is a "normal" viewer that there were people who wanted Penny & Sheldon together her answer was a disgusted/confused face and a "WHY???! which was the same reaction my fiancee had. And the same reaction all the people around me had when I told them.

The attitude of "ohh if you ship the canon pairings is because you are a blind watcher who only eats what the writers give you" well... hello! it's a scripted show! of course I'm gonna believe what the writers write.. because they are the writers! they write the characters!

It's the constant need of justifying themselves that many Shenny shippers have what bothers me. The "I ship them becase "insert fallacy here"".

The truth is, there has never been ANY hint whatsoever that the show is EVER going the Shenny route. And that's not something people say to be mean to "poor Shenny shippers", it's reality.

Now, some shippers take that as an insult or as an attack, and believe me. & let me clarify something: it's not. It's a reality check. No one is telling you not to ship it, but so far, it's just not happening.

Now, if you tell me, you want them to happen because of reasons such as:

- I think it would be adorable

- I think it would be hilarious

- I would really like to see them together

- or like the one co-worker of mine told me: Sheldon is the more handsome, Penny is the prettiest, they should be together. (at least she was honest)

and so on, it's perfectly fine, wish away. But don't start calling the rest of the people who is not a Shenny shipper "blind", or "stupid" or "without imagination" because it bothers me. Or try to make me see things that aren't there, which is the same thing as calling us "blind", "stupid" or "without imagination".

Maybe this is because I'm a trained scientist? It could be. I like facts, I judge based on facts, and it something can be easily refuted is not true to me.

Again, is nothing against Shenny shippers or the ship itself. It's the attitude that bothers me.

But that's my opinion.

Great post. This is spot on.

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I agree with Sursonica. One other thing which has sometimes irritated me about Shenny shippers (and to her credit, annieogly isn't doing this, at least) is taking an attitude of outrage and disillusionment towards the writers for 'destroying all the potential of the show', read 'not going the Shenny way'. Now since it's pretty clear that the show intends L/P and S/A to be together, and S/A is getting more and more popular as a pairing, a section of Shenny-ers tend to go all high-brow and say that the writers are ruining the show because S/P which they 'clearly hinted at' was the most beautiful thing that could have happened and it has increasingly taken a backseat.

I too would like to see more S/P scenes together because they have such great comedic chemistry. But regarding their getting together romantically, the writers and cast have repeatedly and vocally, in numerous interviews, declared that it was NEVER intended. For heaven's sake, it's their show and they are writing it well. What is the point of falsely imputing motives and then feeling cheated because they weren't carried out? From the outside, it looks like a group of fans living in an absurd dream world, and a negative one at that. By all means, one can ship an imaginary and non-existent romantic pairing, and write about it, but why not be clear that that's what it is? Is reality that hard to absorb (even on-screen reality)?

annieogly - believe me, we're long sufferers. :)

For goodness sakes; I'm just having a bit of fun; it challenges me as a writer to look into a plot and see what may develop. As Doug and I have said it may happen and equally it may not. So what? I understand that for the scientists here there are facts and outcomes:icon_biggrin:

But writing is a creative art.. Many times writers find their characters going in directions that they never intended for them. I've had it happen. Or sometimes you plan things for your characters and it leads to a dead end. Very common.

So that's all; I'm certainly not trying to convince anybody, just having a few ruminations and doing it only in this thread. Having fun.


I don't mind discussions about why we think the Shenny works or posing questions about it; but derailing the thread with absurdities because you don't like it, isn't nice or fun. Just go start an "I hate Shenny thread" and do you worst there. No problem.

Since I do not ship Shenny but am neutral I would hope for broader discussion then that.

It is clear to me that you are right about an attempt to derail this thread.

As a Big Bang Theory fan I say welcome to all Shenny shippers, Shamy shippers, Lenny shippers, Bernedette/Howard shippers, Sheldon/Leonard shippers and Rajesh/Howard shippers.

Sorry I do not know all the abreviations.

Well sure Doug; everyone & every kind of shipper is fine and welcome. I just want the thread to come back. What is Amy's core? I have no real idea what motivates her....

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I just want the thread to come back. What is Amy's core? I have no real idea what motivates her....

Thanks to the popularity of Amy, the writers will be filling in those details for the next couple of seasons. We will apparently find out about her multi-year, long range plan for Sheldon this season.

This should be interesting and funny.

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Shaj makes much more sense then Shenny.

Which is sort of like saying smallpox is better than bubonic plague. Neither is much of a choice.

Actually that is not true. You had a much better chance of surviving small pox then you did bubonic plague. Something like 50% vs 85% fatality rate.

There have been many more hints at Sheldon and Raj getting together then Sheldon and Penny. When Raj lived with Sheldon and prepared those romantic dinners. Sheldon didn't want Leonard to come back. Bernadette's comment about Raj not being a metrosexual. Sheldon and Raj are both scientists, work together so that Raj could drive Sheldon to work, and most of all, their amazing chemistry. SHAJ!

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I agree with Sursonica. One other thing which has sometimes irritated me about Shenny shippers (and to her credit, annieogly isn't doing this, at least) is taking an attitude of outrage and disillusionment towards the writers for 'destroying all the potential of the show', read 'not going the Shenny way'. Now since it's pretty clear that the show intends L/P and S/A to be together, and S/A is getting more and more popular as a pairing, a section of Shenny-ers tend to go all high-brow and say that the writers are ruining the show because S/P which they 'clearly hinted at' was the most beautiful thing that could have happened and it has increasingly taken a backseat.

I too would like to see more S/P scenes together because they have such great comedic chemistry. But regarding their getting together romantically, the writers and cast have repeatedly and vocally, in numerous interviews, declared that it was NEVER intended. For heaven's sake, it's their show and they are writing it well. What is the point of falsely imputing motives and then feeling cheated because they weren't carried out? From the outside, it looks like a group of fans living in an absurd dream world, and a negative one at that. By all means, one can ship an imaginary and non-existent romantic pairing, and write about it, but why not be clear that that's what it is? Is reality that hard to absorb (even on-screen reality)?

annieogly - believe me, we're long sufferers. :)

For goodness sakes; I'm just having a bit of fun; it challenges me as a writer to look into a plot and see what may develop. As Doug and I have said it may happen and equally it may not. So what? I understand that for the scientists here there are facts and outcomes:icon_biggrin:

But writing is a creative art.. Many times writers find their characters going in directions that they never intended for them. I've had it happen. Or sometimes you plan things for your characters and it leads to a dead end. Very common.

So that's all; I'm certainly not trying to convince anybody, just having a few ruminations and doing it only in this thread. Having fun.

I wasn't referring to you specifically, just outlining a reason why many of us are already irritated by a large percentage of Shenny shippers who are unwontedly aggressive and desperate.

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Thanks to everyone for the humorous expansion of TBBT relationship possibilities. The addition of the Shaj, Wolleny, and Lenodette are all most welcome additions to the heretofore limited possibilities presented by the Shenny. However, these potential pairings leave Amy out in the cold. Who is left for the poor girl? Stuart (Stamy)? Zack (Zamy)? Kripke (Kramy)? Maybe they could bring back Leslie Winkle and pair her with Amy (Lamy)? The opportunities appear to be endless.

Okay,facetious rambling concluded. Some of the Shenny advocates are complaining that their, to this point, 41 page thread has been derailed by writers proposing silly and implausible alternative relationships. And perhaps they have a valid point. However, for 35 pages the thread stayed on topic. From its inception on 11/07/2011, when Bigfan 89 posted, “I’m a huge fan myself and as I watch the all the shows and seasons I see chemistry between Penny and Sheldon! Am I just crazy to think they would be cute together?†most of the posts, while opposed, were on point and congenial. On 11/10, Cbolt entered the debate. Nowhere is there a more dedicated and fanatical Shenny shipper than Cbolt. He adores Penny (he calls her a goddess) and positively loathes Leonard. To discuss or debate this topic with him logically was a herculean task and many tried. Most eventually gave up and left the battle to Rick. Cbolt seems to have disappeared but the debate goes on.

Personally, I see this idea to be just as silly and implausible as the relationships named above. This is not news here as I have stated my views on this and the reasons for them. Not once have I had a Shenny advocate logically respond to any of my objections. What I have seen is a disregard for my (and others) arguments. The logically presented obstacles to such a relationship are ignored amid a continuous theme of “they’re so cute togetherâ€; “they’re really funny togetherâ€; “Penny can fix Sheldonâ€; “Sheldon has to have Penny because she stands up to him†and other such comments. I’ve seen it argued that Sheldon will hit his head on something and as a result decide he wants Penny. That Sheldon will get high on some drug and have sex with Penny. That they will get drunk and make passionate love and live happily ever after. That Sheldon will ‘go through puberty’ and suddenly have to have the pretty girl. Now, we see the arguments that events on the show have been foreshadowing an underlying Shenny premise all along. This twisting of events to mean something other than their real purpose is no more believable than the Sheldon hitting his head idea.

The fact is that the interactions on TBBT between Sheldon and Penny from the first episode through the end of season five have never, in any way, indicated or hinted at any sort of romantic Shenny pairing. Instead, they have done exactly the opposite. Sheldon is condescending toward Penny at every opportunity. He insults her intelligence. He has clearly indicated he thinks she is promiscuous and not in control of her sexual urges. He has stated that she is a master at trading sexual favors for material gain (and suggested she coach Leonard in doing the same). He has stated that she is a failure at her chosen career. He says she has no marketable skills. He comments on her abysmal housekeeping skills. He says she has ‘man hands’. Penny, and this is important, knows all of this. I have asked this before and will try again, “What woman, having been talked down to for years by a man who has clearly voiced his opinion that she is an uneducated, slow witted, underachieving, slovenly, gold digging skank, would ever decide to enter into a relationship with that man?â€

For her part, Penny has called Sheldon the cure for sexual urges. She says he’s crazy. His OCD habits annoy and frustrate her. She thinks he’s an intellectual bully. She thinks he’s an overgrown child. She wanted to go ‘junior rodeo’ on him. Where in this is there any sign that she would ever see him in a romantic light? She thinks Amy is crazy for wanting him for a boyfriend. Is Penny going to drive Sheldon to work? To the comic book store, and everywhere else he needs to go like Leonard does? Is she going to pick up his dinner and jump through the hoops that Leonard does? I don’t see it.

Then there are the effects that a Shenny relationship would have to have on the rest of the cast. If Sheldon starts dating Penny it would be cataclysmic for TBBT. Leonard would not maintain a friendship with Sheldon under those circumstances. Howard and Raj are Leonard’s friends much more than they are Sheldon’s. Amy would become completely superfluous and need to go. And please, don’t try to shuffle the relationships to make this work. Amy thinks of Leonard the same way Sheldon does. She would no more have a relationship with him than Sheldon would have one with Penny. What have you got then? What you have is the Sheldon and Penny Show. Sounds a lot like Dharma and Greg, except that they actually liked each other.

Do Sheldon and Penny have hilarious scenes together? Absolutely! Do Jim and Kaley have fantastic on-screen chemistry? They certainly do. Jim has fantastic on-screen chemistry with Johnny and Mayim as well. That is a great reflection on the talent of these actors. It does not in any way point to a Shenny relationship.

I'm not trying to stop anyone from posting on this topic. If Shenny is your thing then post away. Perhaps the problem really lies with us non-Shenny folks that see the topic of the thread and and want to post our opposing viewpoints. I don't know. Enough said, I have to go and write a letter to a politician on the importance of keeping campaign promises...

:icon_lol:

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Thanks to everyone for the humorous expansion of TBBT relationship possibilities. The addition of the Shaj, Wolleny, and Lenodette are all most welcome additions to the heretofore limited possibilities presented by the Shenny. However, these potential pairings leave Amy out in the cold. Who is left for the poor girl? Stuart (Stamy)? Zack (Zamy)? Kripke (Kramy)? Maybe they could bring back Leslie Winkle and pair her with Amy (Lamy)? The opportunities appear to be endless.

Okay,facetious rambling concluded. Some of the Shenny advocates are complaining that their, to this point, 41 page thread has been derailed by writers proposing silly and implausible alternative relationships. And perhaps they have a valid point. However, for 35 pages the thread stayed on topic. From its inception on 11/07/2011, when Bigfan 89 posted, “I’m a huge fan myself and as I watch the all the shows and seasons I see chemistry between Penny and Sheldon! Am I just crazy to think they would be cute together?†most of the posts, while opposed, were on point and congenial. On 11/10, Cbolt entered the debate. Nowhere is there a more dedicated and fanatical Shenny shipper than Cbolt. He adores Penny (he calls her a goddess) and positively loathes Leonard. To discuss or debate this topic with him logically was a herculean task and many tried. Most eventually gave up and left the battle to Rick. Cbolt seems to have disappeared but the debate goes on.

Personally, I see this idea to be just as silly and implausible as the relationships named above. This is not news here as I have stated my views on this and the reasons for them. Not once have I had a Shenny advocate logically respond to any of my objections. What I have seen is a disregard for my (and others) arguments. The logically presented obstacles to such a relationship are ignored amid a continuous theme of “they’re so cute togetherâ€; “they’re really funny togetherâ€; “Penny can fix Sheldonâ€; “Sheldon has to have Penny because she stands up to him†and other such comments. I’ve seen it argued that Sheldon will hit his head on something and as a result decide he wants Penny. That Sheldon will get high on some drug and have sex with Penny. That they will get drunk and make passionate love and live happily ever after. That Sheldon will ‘go through puberty’ and suddenly have to have the pretty girl. Now, we see the arguments that events on the show have been foreshadowing an underlying Shenny premise all along. This twisting of events to mean something other than their real purpose is no more believable than the Sheldon hitting his head idea.

The fact is that the interactions on TBBT between Sheldon and Penny from the first episode through the end of season five have never, in any way, indicated or hinted at any sort of romantic Shenny pairing. Instead, they have done exactly the opposite. Sheldon is condescending toward Penny at every opportunity. He insults her intelligence. He has clearly indicated he thinks she is promiscuous and not in control of her sexual urges. He has stated that she is a master at trading sexual favors for material gain (and suggested she coach Leonard in doing the same). He has stated that she is a failure at her chosen career. He says she has no marketable skills. He comments on her abysmal housekeeping skills. He says she has ‘man hands’. Penny, and this is important, knows all of this. I have asked this before and will try again, “What woman, having been talked down to for years by a man who has clearly voiced his opinion that she is an uneducated, slow witted, underachieving, slovenly, gold digging skank, would ever decide to enter into a relationship with that man?â€

For her part, Penny has called Sheldon the cure for sexual urges. She says he’s crazy. His OCD habits annoy and frustrate her. She thinks he’s an intellectual bully. She thinks he’s an overgrown child. She wanted to go ‘junior rodeo’ on him. Where in this is there any sign that she would ever see him in a romantic light? She thinks Amy is crazy for wanting him for a boyfriend. Is Penny going to drive Sheldon to work? To the comic book store, and everywhere else he needs to go like Leonard does? Is she going to pick up his dinner and jump through the hoops that Leonard does? I don’t see it.

Then there are the effects that a Shenny relationship would have to have on the rest of the cast. If Sheldon starts dating Penny it would be cataclysmic for TBBT. Leonard would not maintain a friendship with Sheldon under those circumstances. Howard and Raj are Leonard’s friends much more than they are Sheldon’s. Amy would become completely superfluous and need to go. And please, don’t try to shuffle the relationships to make this work. Amy thinks of Leonard the same way Sheldon does. She would no more have a relationship with him than Sheldon would have one with Penny. What have you got then? What you have is the Sheldon and Penny Show. Sounds a lot like Dharma and Greg, except that they actually liked each other.

Do Sheldon and Penny have hilarious scenes together? Absolutely! Do Jim and Kaley have fantastic on-screen chemistry? They certainly do. Jim has fantastic on-screen chemistry with Johnny and Mayim as well. That is a great reflection on the talent of these actors. It does not in any way point to a Shenny relationship.

I'm not trying to stop anyone from posting on this topic. If Shenny is your thing then post away. Perhaps the problem really lies with us non-Shenny folks that see the topic of the thread and and want to post our opposing viewpoints. I don't know. Enough said, I have to go and write a letter to a politician on the importance of keeping campaign promises...

:icon_lol:

As a newbie, I thank you for the update on what has entailed on the thread thus saving me time on trying to know what has transpired.

Also, thank you for that straight-to-the-point summary collection of the very reasons that Shenny WILL never happen in the show, as opposed to what some people have been insisting. Never have said it better.

It really is that simple.

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On 11/10, Cbolt entered the debate. Nowhere is there a more dedicated and fanatical Shenny shipper than Cbolt. He adores Penny (he calls her a goddess) and positively loathes Leonard. To discuss or debate this topic with him logically was a herculean task and many tried. Most eventually gave up and left the battle to Rick. Cbolt seems to have disappeared but the debate goes on.

I have been lurking around these forums for around 2 months and I have read most of the threads

But I have to admit I miss Cbolt :icon_cry:... He sees the show in an angle that no one would even have thought of...His exaggerations of leonard's faults, sheldon's merits and penny's beauty is the most hilarious thing on these forums..

Personally I ship what the show shows because at the end I will be happy :icon_biggrin:

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I agree with Sursonica. One other thing which has sometimes irritated me about Shenny shippers (and to her credit, annieogly isn't doing this, at least) is taking an attitude of outrage and disillusionment towards the writers for 'destroying all the potential of the show', read 'not going the Shenny way'. Now since it's pretty clear that the show intends L/P and S/A to be together, and S/A is getting more and more popular as a pairing, a section of Shenny-ers tend to go all high-brow and say that the writers are ruining the show because S/P which they 'clearly hinted at' was the most beautiful thing that could have happened and it has increasingly taken a backseat.

I too would like to see more S/P scenes together because they have such great comedic chemistry. But regarding their getting together romantically, the writers and cast have repeatedly and vocally, in numerous interviews, declared that it was NEVER intended. For heaven's sake, it's their show and they are writing it well. What is the point of falsely imputing motives and then feeling cheated because they weren't carried out? From the outside, it looks like a group of fans living in an absurd dream world, and a negative one at that. By all means, one can ship an imaginary and non-existent romantic pairing, and write about it, but why not be clear that that's what it is? Is reality that hard to absorb (even on-screen reality)?

annieogly - believe me, we're long sufferers. :)

For goodness sakes; I'm just having a bit of fun; it challenges me as a writer to look into a plot and see what may develop. As Doug and I have said it may happen and equally it may not. So what? I understand that for the scientists here there are facts and outcomes:icon_biggrin:

But writing is a creative art.. Many times writers find their characters going in directions that they never intended for them. I've had it happen. Or sometimes you plan things for your characters and it leads to a dead end. Very common.

So that's all; I'm certainly not trying to convince anybody, just having a few ruminations and doing it only in this thread. Having fun.


I don't mind discussions about why we think the Shenny works or posing questions about it; but derailing the thread with absurdities because you don't like it, isn't nice or fun. Just go start an "I hate Shenny thread" and do you worst there. No problem.

Since I do not ship Shenny but am neutral I would hope for broader discussion then that.

It is clear to me that you are right about an attempt to derail this thread.

As a Big Bang Theory fan I say welcome to all Shenny shippers, Shamy shippers, Lenny shippers, Bernedette/Howard shippers, Sheldon/Leonard shippers and Rajesh/Howard shippers.

Sorry I do not know all the abreviations.

Well sure Doug; everyone & every kind of shipper is fine and welcome. I just want the thread to come back. What is Amy's core? I have no real idea what motivates her....

I am not sure the writers know what Amy’s core is or if she has the same one she started with.

At first she was a Sheldon clone.

Later in the fourth season she is mostly about being part of the in group of girls, she actually is the one pushing much of the stuff with Priya.

Next she discovered sex/lust.

Then she becomes obsessed about relationship/marriage maybe even more then Leonard.

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I agree with Sursonica. One other thing which has sometimes irritated me about Shenny shippers (and to her credit, annieogly isn't doing this, at least) is taking an attitude of outrage and disillusionment towards the writers for 'destroying all the potential of the show', read 'not going the Shenny way'. Now since it's pretty clear that the show intends L/P and S/A to be together, and S/A is getting more and more popular as a pairing, a section of Shenny-ers tend to go all high-brow and say that the writers are ruining the show because S/P which they 'clearly hinted at' was the most beautiful thing that could have happened and it has increasingly taken a backseat.

I too would like to see more S/P scenes together because they have such great comedic chemistry. But regarding their getting together romantically, the writers and cast have repeatedly and vocally, in numerous interviews, declared that it was NEVER intended. For heaven's sake, it's their show and they are writing it well. What is the point of falsely imputing motives and then feeling cheated because they weren't carried out? From the outside, it looks like a group of fans living in an absurd dream world, and a negative one at that. By all means, one can ship an imaginary and non-existent romantic pairing, and write about it, but why not be clear that that's what it is? Is reality that hard to absorb (even on-screen reality)?

annieogly - believe me, we're long sufferers. :)

For goodness sakes; I'm just having a bit of fun; it challenges me as a writer to look into a plot and see what may develop. As Doug and I have said it may happen and equally it may not. So what? I understand that for the scientists here there are facts and outcomes:icon_biggrin:

But writing is a creative art.. Many times writers find their characters going in directions that they never intended for them. I've had it happen. Or sometimes you plan things for your characters and it leads to a dead end. Very common.

So that's all; I'm certainly not trying to convince anybody, just having a few ruminations and doing it only in this thread. Having fun.


I don't mind discussions about why we think the Shenny works or posing questions about it; but derailing the thread with absurdities because you don't like it, isn't nice or fun. Just go start an "I hate Shenny thread" and do you worst there. No problem.

Since I do not ship Shenny but am neutral I would hope for broader discussion then that.

It is clear to me that you are right about an attempt to derail this thread.

As a Big Bang Theory fan I say welcome to all Shenny shippers, Shamy shippers, Lenny shippers, Bernedette/Howard shippers, Sheldon/Leonard shippers and Rajesh/Howard shippers.

Sorry I do not know all the abreviations.

Well sure Doug; everyone & every kind of shipper is fine and welcome. I just want the thread to come back. What is Amy's core? I have no real idea what motivates her....

I am not sure the writers know what Amy’s core is or if she has the same one she started with.

At first she was a Sheldon clone.

Later in the fourth season she is mostly about being part of the in group of girls, she actually is the one pushing much of the stuff with Priya.

Next she discovered sex/lust.

Then she becomes obsessed about relationship/marriage maybe even more then Leonard.

yes I thought with season 4, Amy having girlfriends, socializing, we'd find out more about her; why she became a neurobiologist, her childhood, her workmates, her world. But it never developed. They keep using her as a plotline. I remember when they're at City Hall for Wolowitz's wedding where she says 'it makes you think' to Sheldon; where did that come from? One minute she wants to explore her sexuality and the next settle down...it's all over the place.

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yes I thought with season 4, Amy having girlfriends, socializing, we'd find out more about her; why she became a neurobiologist, her childhood, her workmates, her world. But it never developed. They keep using her as a plotline. I remember when they're at City Hall for Wolowitz's wedding where she says 'it makes you think' to Sheldon; where did that come from? One minute she wants to explore her sexuality and the next settle down...it's all over the place.

It's like this with all the characters, not just Amy. We still don't know that much about Penny really, she doesn't even have a surname. Arguably we know more about Amy than her. They don't seem to go that much in to a backstory unless they need it for a scene. Its all that's required for a comedy like this. We do know quite a lot about Amy's childhood already.

BTW great post HeWolf.

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I am not sure the writers know what Amy’s core is or if she has the same one she started with.

At first she was a Sheldon clone.

Later in the fourth season she is mostly about being part of the in group of girls, she actually is the one pushing much of the stuff with Priya.

Next she discovered sex/lust.

Then she becomes obsessed about relationship/marriage maybe even more then Leonard.

yes I thought with season 4, Amy having girlfriends, socializing, we'd find out more about her; why she became a neurobiologist, her childhood, her workmates, her world. But it never developed. They keep using her as a plotline. I remember when they're at City Hall for Wolowitz's wedding where she says 'it makes you think' to Sheldon; where did that come from? One minute she wants to explore her sexuality and the next settle down...it's all over the place.

I actually think that is going to be an important part of season 6.

Leonard started developing into nesting mode in season 4 with Priya

He had signed out of the roommate agreement and was going to move in with her.

Less then a season later he has transferred this to Penny and proposes marriage.

Amy shows a similar track in season 5 first in her bridesmaid role, then trying to condition Sheldon followed by hinting at marriage only one episode after Leonard proposes.

While this can be papered over for a while there are really only two choices:

Penny and/or Sheldon get with the program.

Either or both couples breakup,

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I am not sure the writers know what Amy’s core is or if she has the same one she started with.

At first she was a Sheldon clone.

Later in the fourth season she is mostly about being part of the in group of girls, she actually is the one pushing much of the stuff with Priya.

Next she discovered sex/lust.

Then she becomes obsessed about relationship/marriage maybe even more then Leonard.

yes I thought with season 4, Amy having girlfriends, socializing, we'd find out more about her; why she became a neurobiologist, her childhood, her workmates, her world. But it never developed. They keep using her as a plotline. I remember when they're at City Hall for Wolowitz's wedding where she says 'it makes you think' to Sheldon; where did that come from? One minute she wants to explore her sexuality and the next settle down...it's all over the place.

I actually think that is going to be an important part of season 6.

Leonard started developing into nesting mode in season 4 with Priya

He had signed out of the roommate agreement and was going to move in with her.

Less then a season later he has transferred this to Penny and proposes marriage.

Amy shows a similar track in season 5 first in her bridesmaid role, then trying to condition Sheldon followed by hinting at marriage only one episode after Leonard proposes.

While this can be papered over for a while there are really only two choices:

Penny and/or Sheldon get with the program.

Either or both couples breakup,

Hmm, you're far more observant than I, but I think you're right. Why do the writers dig themselves into such a plot hole. Ugh. So you think season 6 is all about Amy getting Sheldon to propose or proposing herself?


yes I thought with season 4, Amy having girlfriends, socializing, we'd find out more about her; why she became a neurobiologist, her childhood, her workmates, her world. But it never developed. They keep using her as a plotline. I remember when they're at City Hall for Wolowitz's wedding where she says 'it makes you think' to Sheldon; where did that come from? One minute she wants to explore her sexuality and the next settle down...it's all over the place.

It's like this with all the characters, not just Amy. We still don't know that much about Penny really, she doesn't even have a surname. Arguably we know more about Amy than her. They don't seem to go that much in to a backstory unless they need it for a scene. Its all that's required for a comedy like this. We do know quite a lot about Amy's childhood already.

BTW great post HeWolf.

Moonbase, we know a lot about Penny, her Nebraska farm childhood, about her parents. We met her dad Wyatt, her dad wanting a boy, her tomboy childhood - 'Slugger'. Her brother the chemist. Her disappointment and not making head cheerleader, being part of the corn queen's court. Her need for external validation,which is the classic reason for becoming an actress; her maternal/loving instincts in taking care of sick Sheldon. Leonard's mother analyzed her & summed up her psyche. So yeah there is a lot.

I don't know what makes Amy tick....that's what's missing. It's not really backstory, it's motivation.

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yes I thought with season 4, Amy having girlfriends, socializing, we'd find out more about her; why she became a neurobiologist, her childhood, her workmates, her world. But it never developed. They keep using her as a plotline. I remember when they're at City Hall for Wolowitz's wedding where she says 'it makes you think' to Sheldon; where did that come from? One minute she wants to explore her sexuality and the next settle down...it's all over the place.

It's like this with all the characters, not just Amy. We still don't know that much about Penny really, she doesn't even have a surname. Arguably we know more about Amy than her. They don't seem to go that much in to a backstory unless they need it for a scene. Its all that's required for a comedy like this. We do know quite a lot about Amy's childhood already.

Moonbase, we know a lot about Penny, her Nebraska farm childhood, about her parents. We met her dad Wyatt, her dad wanting a boy, her tomboy childhood - 'Slugger'. Her brother the chemist. Her disappointment and not making head cheerleader, being part of the corn queen's court. Her need for external validation,which is the classic reason for becoming an actress; her maternal/loving instincts in taking care of sick Sheldon. Leonard's mother analyzed her & summed up her psyche. So yeah there is a lot.

I don't know what makes Amy tick....that's what's missing. It's not really backstory, it's motivation.

We actually know more about the motivations of Amy then Penny. The lack of substance of the Penny character has been a big complaint from TV critics and fans alike, especially on the fan forums. And it goes deeper than Chuck Lorre not bothering to give her a last name or being primarily a sex object, the standard complaint about Lorre's female characters.

Why does Penny act so irrationally in her relationship with Leonard? She seems to take him for granted when he is with her and then falls into drunken depression when he is not. She gets crazy jealous if any women gets close to him but refuses to tell him she loves him when everyone around her knows that she does. Why does she not want to work at any career? An actress? She is not shown even auditioning for parts after her "breakthrough" role in the hemorrhoids commercial. Heaven forbid Leonard should ask her to read a book or get further education. She has no avocation, no hobbies, no causes she feels strongly about and no talents (well, that she can display in public). She says she thinks she wants to marry Leonard then she thinks she wants to breakup, she's the Straw man from the Wizard of OZ.

Penny is an outline that they hang jokes off. They are all like that to some degree but for Penny to be one of the star characters the vagueness of her center is almost unforgivable. Everything we know about her comes from the setup from a joke. Except for the episode where her father visits and begs Leonard not to give up on her to save her from a life of ruin, we see little of Penny's direction in life.

Amy has been there for only two seasons but her motivations are quite clear, thanks to the writers giving her a narrow focus: to be Sheldon Cooper's one and only. We know she is quite disciplined, has a very successful career and plays the harp. We have met her mother and we know she is a virgin who had a lonely childhood. She is overjoyed to be hanging with the popular girl, even one who would have tormented her in High School. She is the only person that Sheldon thinks is worthy to talk to him. She is the only one that can force Sheldon to apologize on demand. She is brutally honest to a fault even telling Sheldon of her plan to make him love her and to Sheldon's surprise, it's working.

The producer's have promised that in season six, Penny will be "matured". In essence, they are going to fix the holes that they have made in the character. They are going to explain why she acts this way toward Leonard and let her do some self examination and even get back to her career. They got a whole lot of fixing to do!

Amy, on the other hand, will reveal her long range plan for Shamy this year say the powers that be. The writers know exactly where they want Amy to go while being careful not to change Sheldon too quickly. This focus has allowed the Shamy to be the primary couple on TBBT while earning Emmy nominations for Jim and Miyam (who is favored to win).

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yes I thought with season 4, Amy having girlfriends, socializing, we'd find out more about her; why she became a neurobiologist, her childhood, her workmates, her world. But it never developed. They keep using her as a plotline. I remember when they're at City Hall for Wolowitz's wedding where she says 'it makes you think' to Sheldon; where did that come from? One minute she wants to explore her sexuality and the next settle down...it's all over the place.

It's like this with all the characters, not just Amy. We still don't know that much about Penny really, she doesn't even have a surname. Arguably we know more about Amy than her. They don't seem to go that much in to a backstory unless they need it for a scene. Its all that's required for a comedy like this. We do know quite a lot about Amy's childhood already.

Moonbase, we know a lot about Penny, her Nebraska farm childhood, about her parents. We met her dad Wyatt, her dad wanting a boy, her tomboy childhood - 'Slugger'. Her brother the chemist. Her disappointment and not making head cheerleader, being part of the corn queen's court. Her need for external validation,which is the classic reason for becoming an actress; her maternal/loving instincts in taking care of sick Sheldon. Leonard's mother analyzed her & summed up her psyche. So yeah there is a lot.

I don't know what makes Amy tick....that's what's missing. It's not really backstory, it's motivation.

We actually know more about the motivations of Amy then Penny. The lack of substance of the Penny character has been a big complaint from TV critics and fans alike, especially on the fan forums. And it goes deeper than Chuck Lorre not bothering to give her a last name or being primarily a sex object, the standard complaint about Lorre's female characters.

Why does Penny act so irrationally in her relationship with Leonard? She seems to take him for granted when he is with her and then falls into drunken depression when he is not. She gets crazy jealous if any women gets close to him but refuses to tell him she loves him when everyone around her knows that she does. Why does she not want to work at any career? An actress? She is not shown even auditioning for parts after her "breakthrough" role in the hemorrhoids commercial. Heaven forbid Leonard should ask her to read a book or get further education. She has no avocation, no hobbies, no causes she feels strongly about and no talents (well, that she can display in public). She says she thinks she wants to marry Leonard then she thinks she wants to breakup, she's the Straw man from the Wizard of OZ.

Penny is an outline that they hang jokes off. They are all like that to some degree but for Penny to be one of the star characters the vagueness of her center is almost unforgivable. Everything we know about her comes from the setup for a joke. Except for the episode where her father visits and begs Leonard not to give up on her to save her from a life of ruin, we see little of Penny's direction in life.

Amy has been there for only two seasons but her motivations are quite clear, thanks to the writers giving her a narrow focus: to be Sheldon Cooper's one and only. We know she is quite disciplined, has a very successful career and plays the harp and is from Glendale California. We have met her mother and we know she is a virgin who had a lonely childhood. She is overjoyed to be hanging with the popular girl, even one who would have tormented her in High School. She is the only person that Sheldon thinks is worthy to talk to him. She is the only one that can force Sheldon to apologize on demand. She is brutally honest to a fault even telling Sheldon of her plan to make him love her and to Sheldon's surprise, it's working.

The producer's have promised that in season six, Penny will be "matured". In essence, they are going to fix the holes that they have made in the character. They are going to explain why she acts this way toward Leonard and let her do some self examination and even get back to her career. They got a whole lot of fixing to do!

Amy, on the other hand, will reveal her long range plan for Shamy this year say the powers that be. The writers know exactly where they want Amy to go while being careful not to change Sheldon too quickly. This focus has allowed the Shamy to be the primary couple on TBBT while earning Emmy nominations for Jim and Miyam (who is favored to win).

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I am not sure the writers know what Amy’s core is or if she has the same one she started with.

At first she was a Sheldon clone.

Later in the fourth season she is mostly about being part of the in group of girls, she actually is the one pushing much of the stuff with Priya.

Next she discovered sex/lust.

Then she becomes obsessed about relationship/marriage maybe even more then Leonard.

yes I thought with season 4, Amy having girlfriends, socializing, we'd find out more about her; why she became a neurobiologist, her childhood, her workmates, her world. But it never developed. They keep using her as a plotline. I remember when they're at City Hall for Wolowitz's wedding where she says 'it makes you think' to Sheldon; where did that come from? One minute she wants to explore her sexuality and the next settle down...it's all over the place.

I actually think that is going to be an important part of season 6.

Leonard started developing into nesting mode in season 4 with Priya

He had signed out of the roommate agreement and was going to move in with her.

Less then a season later he has transferred this to Penny and proposes marriage.

Amy shows a similar track in season 5 first in her bridesmaid role, then trying to condition Sheldon followed by hinting at marriage only one episode after Leonard proposes.

While this can be papered over for a while there are really only two choices:

Penny and/or Sheldon get with the program.

Either or both couples breakup,

Hmm, you're far more observant than I, but I think you're right. Why do the writers dig themselves into such a plot hole. Ugh. So you think season 6 is all about Amy getting Sheldon to propose or proposing herself?

Well considering the potential foreshadowing they did it is not a hole but a choice.

No way too early for that. She will push Sheldon slowly.

I would not be surprised if she encourages Leonard and Penny though.


yes I thought with season 4, Amy having girlfriends, socializing, we'd find out more about her; why she became a neurobiologist, her childhood, her workmates, her world. But it never developed. They keep using her as a plotline. I remember when they're at City Hall for Wolowitz's wedding where she says 'it makes you think' to Sheldon; where did that come from? One minute she wants to explore her sexuality and the next settle down...it's all over the place.

It's like this with all the characters, not just Amy. We still don't know that much about Penny really, she doesn't even have a surname. Arguably we know more about Amy than her. They don't seem to go that much in to a backstory unless they need it for a scene. Its all that's required for a comedy like this. We do know quite a lot about Amy's childhood already.

Moonbase, we know a lot about Penny, her Nebraska farm childhood, about her parents. We met her dad Wyatt, her dad wanting a boy, her tomboy childhood - 'Slugger'. Her brother the chemist. Her disappointment and not making head cheerleader, being part of the corn queen's court. Her need for external validation,which is the classic reason for becoming an actress; her maternal/loving instincts in taking care of sick Sheldon. Leonard's mother analyzed her & summed up her psyche. So yeah there is a lot.

I don't know what makes Amy tick....that's what's missing. It's not really backstory, it's motivation.

We actually know more about the motivations of Amy then Penny. The lack of substance of the Penny character has been a big complaint from TV critics and fans alike, especially on the fan forums. And it goes deeper than Chuck Lorre not bothering to give her a last name or being primarily a sex object, the standard complaint about Lorre's female characters.

Why does Penny act so irrationally in her relationship with Leonard? She seems to take him for granted when he is with her and then falls into drunken depression when he is not. She gets crazy jealous if any women gets close to him but refuses to tell him she loves him when everyone around her knows that she does. Why does she not want to work at any career? An actress? She is not shown even auditioning for parts after her "breakthrough" role in the hemorrhoids commercial. Heaven forbid Leonard should ask her to read a book or get further education. She has no avocation, no hobbies, no causes she feels strongly about and no talents (well, that she can display in public). She says she thinks she wants to marry Leonard then she thinks she wants to breakup, she's the Straw man from the Wizard of OZ.

Penny is an outline that they hang jokes off. They are all like that to some degree but for Penny to be one of the star characters the vagueness of her center is almost unforgivable. Everything we know about her comes from the setup for a joke. Except for the episode where her father visits and begs Leonard not to give up on her to save her from a life of ruin, we see little of Penny's direction in life.

Amy has been there for only two seasons but her motivations are quite clear, thanks to the writers giving her a narrow focus: to be Sheldon Cooper's one and only. We know she is quite disciplined, has a very successful career and plays the harp and is from Glendale California. We have met her mother and we know she is a virgin who had a lonely childhood. She is overjoyed to be hanging with the popular girl, even one who would have tormented her in High School. She is the only person that Sheldon thinks is worthy to talk to him. She is the only one that can force Sheldon to apologize on demand. She is brutally honest to a fault even telling Sheldon of her plan to make him love her and to Sheldon's surprise, it's working.

The producer's have promised that in season six, Penny will be "matured". In essence, they are going to fix the holes that they have made in the character. They are going to explain why she acts this way toward Leonard and let her do some self examination and even get back to her career. They got a whole lot of fixing to do!

Amy, on the other hand, will reveal her long range plan for Shamy this year say the powers that be. The writers know exactly where they want Amy to go while being careful not to change Sheldon too quickly. This focus has allowed the Shamy to be the primary couple on TBBT while earning Emmy nominations for Jim and Miyam (who is favored to win).

We know a lot about Penny on top of what annieogly has said. She is kind hearted and protects those she cares about. She wants to be an actress, she is intelligent and resourceful but poorly educated, and she likes football and partying. She is good at video games, Age of Conan and Chess. She invented Penny blossoms. She is skilled at riding, haircutting and an excellent marksman. She loves all four guys almost like family.

Penny’s choice of reading material and schooling is not Leonard’s call. She is a fully grown women not his property.

If you start from the assumption that Penny is in love with Leonard her behavior is idiotic.

If you do not start from that assumption her behavior towards Leonard makes perfect sense. Penny wants to be with him even in love with him because he is the nice sweet successful guy her daddy wants her to marry but she is not in love with him. If Penny is lucky she will mature out of this and become fully her own person.

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We know a lot about Penny on top of what annieogly has said. She is kind hearted and protects those she cares about. She wants to be an actress, she is intelligent and resourceful but poorly educated, and she likes football and partying. She is good at video games, Age of Conan and Chess. She invented Penny blossoms. She is skilled at riding, haircutting and an excellent marksman. She loves all four guys almost like family.

Penny’s choice of reading material and schooling is not Leonard’s call. She is a fully grown women not his property.

If you start from the assumption that Penny is in love with Leonard her behavior is idiotic.

If you do not start from that assumption her behavior towards Leonard makes perfect sense. Penny wants to be with him even in love with him because he is the nice sweet successful guy her daddy wants her to marry but she is not in love with him. If Penny is lucky she will mature out of this and become fully her own person.

Well, the question we were discussing was Penny's motivation for what she does versus Amy's, not what activities she has done in the series. It's like when someone has asked you to write a status report on a project; they want to know your accomplishments not your activities. There is a reason why the producers are changing Penny in season six. Don't read the producers (Bill Prady and Steve Melaro) comments on season six or the taping reports, you are not going to like it.

And no comments on Amy's motivations?

As for Penny's feelings for Leonard:

Why does Penny get jealous when she sees him with other women?

Why is it that Penny will ignore criticism or insults from others but will go ballistic at any hint of a negative critique from Leonard?

Why did she jump his bones after he was away from her in the North Pole for three months? Why not one of the other three?

Why did she go on a months long drunk (season four) crying and whining about how stupid she was for breaking up with Leonard?

Why did she invite him on a platonic date in season 5 that got him to start thinking of her again?

If she does not love him she has a strange way of showing it. :icon_wink:

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Penny wants to be with him even in love with him because he is the nice sweet successful guy her daddy wants her to marry but she is not in love with him. If Penny is lucky she will mature out of this and become fully her own person.

Well considering the potential foreshadowing they did it is not a hole but a choice.

No way too early for that. She will push Sheldon slowly.

I would not be surprised if she encourages Leonard and Penny though.

Exactly Penny wants to make her daddy happy & so is with Leonard. Maturity means understanding why you do the things you do and then the ability to change. So I hope that's where Penny's maturity leads: greater self-knowledge and rejecting old patterns. Yeah Amy would want to double with her bestie and move together down the path; that's the normal socialization she craves. She and Leonard have a lot in common.

Well we said this year & next will be Amy pushing Sheldon's boundaries; hmm but why does Sheldon allow it? I think he's entering his adolescence too, wants to, and feels safe with Amy. Sort of like dating yourself; you know what to expect, so it's not too scary.

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We know a lot about Penny on top of what annieogly has said. She is kind hearted and protects those she cares about. She wants to be an actress, she is intelligent and resourceful but poorly educated, and she likes football and partying. She is good at video games, Age of Conan and Chess. She invented Penny blossoms. She is skilled at riding, haircutting and an excellent marksman. She loves all four guys almost like family.

Penny’s choice of reading material and schooling is not Leonard’s call. She is a fully grown women not his property.

If you start from the assumption that Penny is in love with Leonard her behavior is idiotic.

If you do not start from that assumption her behavior towards Leonard makes perfect sense. Penny wants to be with him even in love with him because he is the nice sweet successful guy her daddy wants her to marry but she is not in love with him. If Penny is lucky she will mature out of this and become fully her own person.

Well, the question we were discussing was Penny's motivation for what she does versus Amy's, not what activities she has done in the series. It's like when someone has asked you to write a status report on a project; they want to know your accomplishments not your activities. There is a reason why the producers are changing Penny in season six. Don't read the producers (Bill Prady and Steve Melaro) comments on season six or the taping reports, you are not going to like it.

And no comments on Amy's motivations?

As for Penny's feelings for Leonard:

Why does Penny get jealous when she sees him with other women?

Why is it that Penny will ignore criticism or insults from others but will go ballistic at any hint of a negative critique from Leonard?

Why did she jump his bones after he was away from her in the North Pole for three months? Why not one of the other three?

Why did she go on a months long drunk (season four) crying and whining about how stupid she was for breaking up with Leonard?

Why did she invite him on a platonic date in season 5 that got him to start thinking of her again?

If she does not love him she has a strange way of showing it. :icon_wink:

Penny's biggest problem with Leonard is that he is not the type of man that she always thought she would fall in love with and even her love for him is not what she always thought love would be. I think that it frightens her. She is not with Leonard because her father likes Leonard. She liked Leonard before her father ever met him and she wants to be with Leonard not because her father wants her to, but despite of it. The problem is that while Penny is working through her conflicting feelings she is jerking Leonard around all over the place.

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We know a lot about Penny on top of what annieogly has said. She is kind hearted and protects those she cares about. She wants to be an actress, she is intelligent and resourceful but poorly educated, and she likes football and partying. She is good at video games, Age of Conan and Chess. She invented Penny blossoms. She is skilled at riding, haircutting and an excellent marksman. She loves all four guys almost like family.

Penny’s choice of reading material and schooling is not Leonard’s call. She is a fully grown women not his property.

If you start from the assumption that Penny is in love with Leonard her behavior is idiotic.

If you do not start from that assumption her behavior towards Leonard makes perfect sense. Penny wants to be with him even in love with him because he is the nice sweet successful guy her daddy wants her to marry but she is not in love with him. If Penny is lucky she will mature out of this and become fully her own person.

Well, the question we were discussing was Penny's motivation for what she does versus Amy's, not what activities she has done in the series. It's like when someone has asked you to write a status report on a project; they want to know your accomplishments not your activities. There is a reason why the producers are changing Penny in season six. Don't read the producers (Bill Prady and Steve Melaro) comments on season six or the taping reports, you are not going to like it.

And no comments on Amy's motivations?

As for Penny's feelings for Leonard:

Why does Penny get jealous when she sees him with other women?

Why is it that Penny will ignore criticism or insults from others but will go ballistic at any hint of a negative critique from Leonard?

Why did she jump his bones after he was away from her in the North Pole for three months? Why not one of the other three?

Why did she go on a months long drunk (season four) crying and whining about how stupid she was for breaking up with Leonard?

Why did she invite him on a platonic date in season 5 that got him to start thinking of her again?

If she does not love him she has a strange way of showing it. :icon_wink:

Rereading both posts

Lead characters should have much broader interests then who they date.

You did comment about hobbies and talents.

Those events are what define a character.

Penny has basically three major motivations:

1) She wants to be a successful actress.

2) She wants to be loved.

3) Family/Friends/clan

All of which I stated before.

Largely a mix of two and three answer your questions.

If she does love Leonard she has an even stranger way of showing it.

I had already commented on Amy’s motivations in a previous post.

Nothing you said about her varied much from my previous post.

I do agree with you.

If the writers/producers want to basically demote Kaley to supporting actress and make Mayim the lead actress turning Penny into Leonard’s good little girlfriend sounds like a perfect way to do it. I just do not see why they would want to do that.

What could be one of the most important developments of the last two seasons is Penny is tied to the group in ways other then Leonard. Out of the five other characters on the show Penny is now more closely tied to three of them then Leonard is. This is important if they wish to establish her as her own person without losing her connection to the group like poor Leslie.

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I agree with most things that have been said here, if Sheldon and Penny got together everything in the show would be ruined and they would no longer be an ensemble.

Also, I agree that even though Shenny is quite big in the fandom if it was actually released into the real audience it would be negatively viewed. People make it seem more popular than it is.

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