PENNY AND SHELDON MAYBE?

[BangerMain]

Lead characters should have much broader interests then who they date.

You did comment about hobbies and talents.

Those events are what define a character.

Yes, lead characters like Penny should have a broader interest than who they date. Penny does not have any. No hobbies or obvious talents. Every other character has some other hobby and oddly, four have musical talents (Sheldon, Amy, Leonard and Howard).

Penny's lack of form came because she was hastily put together after the original pilot failed. The original female lead (called Katie) was rejected by the network as too abrasive and unlikeable so the very vanilla "Penny" character was inserted to get the new pilot sold. The producers would fill in the blanks later and they have been doing that for five years now.

Penny had one purpose, to be the love object for Leonard. As one of the producers said a few years ago, the central premise of the Big Bang Therory is based on a tug of war between Penny and Sheldon for the mind of Leonard. Sheldon represents the science and geek culture and Penny the carnel pleasures of the "normal" world. That, of course, is the double meaning of the shows title.

If she does love Leonard she has an even stranger way of showing it.

So true. Rick's post explains how the writer's are going to reconcile Penny's odd reactions. Exec producer Bill Prady said in May that the reason for her strange behavior is Penny's youth, Leonard is six years older than her and she is trying to catch up with him and sort out what this odd love feeling for Leonard is all about. It's scary to her that she is with a man unlike any of her previous boyfriends.

As fans can remember, she has been frightened before. She broke up with Leonard the first time because she thought she was not smart enough for him and he would get bored and dump her. But she missed him and started their relationship again in season three. Leonard knows now, to tread lightly on the subject of her education or intelligence.

After putting Leonard through her own version of a Beta test in season five, she is confident (some would say over convident) that her guy loves her absolutely. If, any thing, Leonard has made her too comfortable with his adoration of her to the point that she finds their relationship not challenging. Penny has never had that before in what she has called "love" since her previous serious boyfriends obviously did not think she was anything but disposable.

I do agree with you.

If the writers/producers want to basically demote Kaley to supporting actress and make Mayim the lead actress turning Penny into Leonard’s good little girlfriend sounds like a perfect way to do it. I just do not see why they would want to do that.

They are not going to demote Kaley, not with her making 7.2 million for this season. Kaley has lamented not being the only girl but classily won't say more on the subject. She knows the Shamy is the hot property now and she has been the primary drum beater for Leonard and Penny. That's why we are going to see a lot of the couple's adventures at the start of the season, according to the taping reports.

What could be one of the most important developments of the last two seasons is Penny is tied to the group in ways other then Leonard. Out of the five other characters on the show Penny is now more closely tied to three of them then Leonard is. This is important if they wish to establish her as her own person without losing her connection to the group like poor Leslie.

Having the unlikely friendship with Bernie and Amy gave Penny someone to grieve with during her dark "Priya" days when she thought so little of her self. She is not going to lose contact with the group unless they disassemble the premise of the series.

[DPK]

It will interesting to see if the producers hold to their word about fixing Penny. I usually make my policy to go by the age old philosophy "I'll believe it when I see it". These producers have made statements like this before that they've either non upheld or if it was done it was in hasty and poor fashion.

I cringe whenever I hear the "Penny's young and immature" response, especially when it comes from a showrunnner because that is such a cop out excuse for how Penny has been behaving. My problem with this is that Penny is in her mid twenties now, she's not a teenager, at least she shouldn't be and this idea that all people in their mid-twenties don't know what they want, not only in life but in a relationship with another human being is complete garbage. Penny's had enough bad relationships to know the difference by now. The other reason that this reasoning doesn't hold water for me is that Penny has known Leonard for going on six years now. If she had just met him or had only known him for a short while, her hesitation would make more sense, but if she's still this clueless and fickle after six freaking years she's at worst: A succubus leech that is biding her time until something better comes along(I honestly hate the idea that she would be like this but her behavior sometimes makes it look exactly like this is the case)or at best: tragically stupid and ignorant of just what she has. While one is worse than the other neither one is makes her endearing as a character.

Now with Shamy in the picture, the very improbable Shenny has been rendered even more improbable as the producers have shown us the only female able to temp Sheldon Cooper into bf/gf paradigm.

[BangerMain]

It will interesting to see if the producers hold to their word about fixing Penny. I usually make my policy to go by the age old philosophy "I'll believe it when I see it". These producers have made statements like this before that they've either non upheld or if it was done it was in hasty and poor fashion.

I cringe whenever I hear the "Penny's young and immature" response, especially when it comes from a showrunnner because that is such a cop out excuse for how Penny has been behaving. My problem with this is that Penny is in her mid twenties now, she's not a teenager, at least she shouldn't be and this idea that all people in their mid-twenties don't know what they want, not only in life but in a relationship with another human being is complete garbage. Penny's had enough bad relationships to know the difference by now. The other reason that this reasoning doesn't hold water for me is that Penny has known Leonard for going on six years now. If she had just met him or had only known him for a short while, her hesitation would make more sense, but if she's still this clueless and fickle after six freaking years she's at worst: A succubus leech that is biding her time until something better comes along(I honestly hate the idea that she would be like this but her behavior sometimes makes it look exactly like this is the case)or at best: tragically stupid and ignorant of just what she has. While one is worse than the other neither one is makes her endearing as a character.

Now with Shamy in the picture, the very improbable Shenny has been rendered even more improbable as the producers have shown us the only female able to temp Sheldon Cooper into bf/gf paradigm.

We all have every right to be skeptical of TBBT Powers That Be on fixing Penny. But the problem has been a long time in the making since they have used her to prolong the L/P end game. Penny will be 27 in November (they gave her Kaley Cuoco's birthday) and the character really should be quite certain by now of what she wants from Leonard.

I choose not to read malevolent intent in her character but that is my choice and it does go against some pretty damning evidence. They simply did not seem to want to write them as a couple because there really would be little reason for them not to get married. But they can't keep this up much longer. Even the ridiculous Ross and Rachel got married after five seasons (then divorced, had a baby, then lived together.....) because you can't keep these on/off relationships going but so long before the audience wants a payoff of some kind. Same thing happened on "Wings" where the Joe and Helen characters married at the end of season 6. I'm sure that the Penny fixing promised for season 6 will lead to some sort of permanent coupling in season 7, what ever that would be. The natives are already restless out there in Fandom.

On topic, the Shenny has been pretty much torpedoed, I agree, by the massive popularity of the Shamy. Three of the five highest rated TBBT episodes ever, were Shamy heavy from season 5. This thing is a monster and the producers plan to milk it to the end as they are going to have Amy release a four year plan to get Sheldon once and for all. That will free them from delaying Leonard and Penny to the end of the run and allow the Shamy to carry the relationship load. The fans will allow them to delay a Shamy marriage because who wants to see massive changes to Sheldon? And that means no time for a Shenny development which would require a complete redo of his character.

Unless they stay on for 15 seasons.

[annieogly]

We all have every right to be skeptical of TBBT Powers That Be on fixing Penny. But the problem has been a long time in the making since they have used her to prolong the L/P end game. Penny will be 27 in November (they gave her Kaley Cuoco's birthday) and the character really should be quite certain by now of what she wants from Leonard.

I choose not to read malevolent intent in her character but that is my choice and it does go against some pretty damning evidence. They simply did not seem to want to write them as a couple because there really would be little reason for them not to get married. But they can't keep this up much longer. Even the ridiculous Ross and Rachel got married after five seasons (then divorced, had a baby, then lived together.....) because you can't keep these on/off relationships going but so long before the audience wants a payoff of some kind. Same thing happened on "Wings" where the Joe and Helen characters married at the end of season 6. I'm sure that the Penny fixing promised for season 6 will lead to some sort of permanent coupling in season 7, what ever that would be. The natives are already restless out there in Fandom.

On topic, the Shenny has been pretty much torpedoed, I agree, by the massive popularity of the Shamy. Three of the five highest rated TBBT episodes ever, were Shamy heavy from season 5. This thing is a monster and the producers plan to milk it to the end as they are going to have Amy release a four year plan to get Sheldon once and for all. That will free them from delaying Leonard and Penny to the end of the run and allow the Shamy to carry the relationship load. The fans will allow them to delay a Shamy marriage because who wants to see massive changes to Sheldon? And that means no time for a Shenny development which would require a complete redo of his character.

Unless they stay on for 15 seasons.

Actually we don't know if it is the Amy-Sheldon couple that is the big ratings monster or rather that the big fanbase wants Sheldon to have a love life. A more scientific test would be for the writers to write a romantic dream sequence with Sheldon and Penny and then see how popular it is. And it's entirely possible

[HeWolf]

Actually we don't know if it is the Amy-Sheldon couple that is the big ratings monster or rather that the big fanbase wants Sheldon to have a love life. A more scientific test would be for the writers to write a romantic dream sequence with Sheldon and Penny and then see how popular it is. And it's entirely possible

Ah! The try it in a 'dream sequence' scenario. See how the audience likes it. The poll on this thread indicates the audience will not like it at all. And, you still haven't addressed the problems presented by how these characters have related to one another for five seasons. Or, how it would destroy the cast relationships. Or, why Penny would ever want a relationship with someone that has said the things that Sheldon has said about her.

[rickfromillinois]

Although hardly scientific, the poll on this topic is a good indicator of why there never will be a Shenny. No one in their right mind is going to cater to 20% of their audience and ignore the wishes of the rest. In addition, the writers, producers, and the actors have all proclaimed thier disdaine for the concept. They might do it anyway if the numbers of those who are for and against the idea were reversed, but they aren't. They had the one episode where Penny got drunk and spent the night with Raj and though nothing really happened, not from lack of trying on Penny's part, many fans consider that the worst episode of the show. It created a wave of negative sentiment and I believe TPTB have learned their lesson about Penny having any type of relationship, or near relationship, with any of the main characters besides Leonard. Frankly I still find it hard to believe that Leonard and Raj remained friends after the incident and I am also surprised that Leonard would allow Penny into his apartment afterwards. I understand the argument that Leonard "doesn't have any right" to be angry about it, but to me that is an argument of the naive. Leonard has the "right" to his feelings, I do not beleive that most men would be alright with it, and as a man Raj would know that Leonard would be upset with him. Also, Leonard does not have to justify his feelings to anyone and he does have a say in who he associates with in his own apartment.

Think how much worse it would be if Sheldon hooked up with Penny? Leonard would not have anything to do with either one of them after that. Also Howard and Raj would end up having to pick sides and who do you think they would side with?

Outside of how strange and distasteful it would be for Sheldon and Penny to become a couple, it would also destroy the relationships between the various characters on the show.

[Anomaly]

...Both Sheldon and Penny would require enormous growth in order for it to happen, and the needed growth would destroy what makes the characters so funny.

If you ask me, the characters have already "grown" too much as it is. The characters were all nerdy guys who's lives revolved around sci-fi TV & movies, comic books, paintball and their jobs. They were also guys who couldn't get girls. Within the span of a few seasons, we've seen Leonard have two semi-long term relationships with Penny. We've seen Howard (the wannabe lady's man) not only have a long term relationship, but become engaged & married. We've even seen Sheldon, a character that couldn't even comprehend a normal boyfriend/girlfriend relationship, get a girlfriend. The show has already gone from a unique, quirky show about ultra-intelligent nerds to what amounts to standard sitcom fare. Don't get me wrong, I still love BBT, but it's no longer anything special, because it's "grown" too much.

[BangerMain]

Ah! The try it in a 'dream sequence' scenario. See how the audience likes it. The poll on this thread indicates the audience will not like it at all. And, you still haven't addressed the problems presented by how these characters have related to one another for five seasons. Or, how it would destroy the cast relationships. Or, why Penny would ever want a relationship with someone that has said the things that Sheldon has said about her.

One thing we have learned in this thread, those questions will be ignored.

Edited September 21, 2012 by BangerMain

[Moonbase]

They don't need the dream sequence to give us an idea. I think Penny and Sheldon together would be incredibly boring once the initial shock wore off! I love the characters in conflict but they couldn't use that in the relationship. The episode Infestation where they are reading and Penny says they are like an old married couple says it all. The best part of that scene is Sheldon freaking out and legging it. The rest of the interaction is a bit dull. Little jibes about snicker doodles and a miscommunication over the word 'chair' .... yawn! This is how I expect this relationship would have to be, if they dated. They would end up using similar humour as they use with Raj's parents. The way they make cheap shots at each other which don't quite cross a line. George and Mildred anyone? 

[MJistheBOMB]

They're better as friends. I think it would be a hilarious nightmare sequence though! Sheldon and Penny end up in bed after a night of drinking or something. LOL!

Monique

[Anomaly]

Yeah, it could be very funny if they did it in a way where it never really happened. Not like Penny & Raj though, where they actually intended to, but a dream sequence or an alternate reality/universe kind of thing.

[Doug]

Actually we don't know if it is the Amy-Sheldon couple that is the big ratings monster or rather that the big fanbase wants Sheldon to have a love life. A more scientific test would be for the writers to write a romantic dream sequence with Sheldon and Penny and then see how popular it is. And it's entirely possible

Dream sequences are real tricky when filming live.

Especially the kind you are talking about.

You need some sort of hook.

One interesting twist put it in someone else’s dream sequence of the future.

Another a movie or show based one where Sheldon dreams himself as the lead and Penny as the leading lady or the other way around.

P.S. did you notice that we seem to have a higher opinion of Penny then those who are opposed?

Edited September 21, 2012 by Doug

[annieogly]

Dream sequences are real tricky when filming live.

Especially the kind you are talking about.

You need some sort of hook.

One interesting twist put it in someone else’s dream sequence of the future.

Another a movie or show based one where Sheldon dreams himself as the lead and Penny as the leading lady or the other way around.

P.S. did you notice that we seem to have a higher opinion of Penny then those who are opposed?

Interesting, thanks for the info about live taping.

Okay; either Raj or Bernadette's dream of the future as they're so innocent. Or Raj or even Sheldon could fall asleep to an old Classic B&W Fred Astaire & Ginger Rogers dance sequence and then it segues to Penny and Sheldon, I think they'd fit this so well as Fred was awkward & always got the girl while Ginger was gorgeous and full of charm.

Alternatively Penny as an acting job for a cousin of Pride and Prejudice remake, needs Sheldon's help as a dancing partner for a romantic scene. It's both of them just them acting as flirting lovers...

yes, Penny the strong smart sensible farm girl is doomed 'doing the same thing over and over, hoping for a different result' with Leonard? The very definition of insanity. It doesn't fit the character. . Kaley Cuoco is very talented, it's pretty impressive when Penny the 'straight man' can stand up to such an eccentric character as Sheldon and not lose the scene.

Edited September 22, 2012 by annieogly

[BangerMain]

Actually we don't know if it is the Amy-Sheldon couple that is the big ratings monster or rather that the big fanbase wants Sheldon to have a love life. A more scientific test would be for the writers to write a romantic dream sequence with Sheldon and Penny and then see how popular it is. And it's entirely possible

Preception is reality. The overwhelming preception of the 5th season is that it was the year of the Shamy. That's why Mayim is a favorite for getting an Emmy for her protrayal of Amy. Entertainment Weekly devoted 10 pages of this week's issue to TBBT as the new number one comedy on the air and there was much fawning and discussion over Jim and Mayim and the speed with which their character's relationship should develop. The article states that "the woman playing Sheldon's unlikley match has become one of the show's biggest draws".

Interestingly, Jim does not want Sheldon to have a sex scene any time soon since he thinks it would be difficult to film Sheldon making that transition. Steve Molaro, one of the writer producers, say they are going to follow Amy's long range plan since it took two years just for them to hold hands.

Does not look as though there is much thought in "Bangland" about anything but successful canonical relationships. CBS now charges $450,000 per 30 second commercial and Warner sold the syndication rights for $2,000,000 per episode to TBS. No corporation changes the formula when they have that kind of cash cow. Nor any doubt about which formula is paying off in gold right now.

Edited September 22, 2012 by BangerMain

[Jimbo]

NO, Thank heavens TBBT has the creators they do. That they have shot this down many times.

Also all the cast is against it as well as the writers and everybody except some in a fantasy world.

Bravo!

These are fictional characters in a tv sitcom. It's ALL fantasy.

[Guest I'm not dead Cheryl]

These are fictional characters in a tv sitcom. It's ALL fantasy.

yep. but there are different kinds of possibilities depending on the genre of the show.

[phantagrae]

Although hardly scientific, the poll on this topic is a good indicator of why there never will be a Shenny. No one in their right mind is going to cater to 20% of their audience and ignore the wishes of the rest. In addition, the writers, producers, and the actors have all proclaimed thier disdaine for the concept. They might do it anyway if the numbers of those who are for and against the idea were reversed, but they aren't. They had the one episode where Penny got drunk and spent the night with Raj and though nothing really happened, not from lack of trying on Penny's part, many fans consider that the worst episode of the show. It created a wave of negative sentiment and I believe TPTB have learned their lesson about Penny having any type of relationship, or near relationship, with any of the main characters besides Leonard. Frankly I still find it hard to believe that Leonard and Raj remained friends after the incident and I am also surprised that Leonard would allow Penny into his apartment afterwards. I understand the argument that Leonard "doesn't have any right" to be angry about it, but to me that is an argument of the naive. Leonard has the "right" to his feelings, I do not beleive that most men would be alright with it, and as a man Raj would know that Leonard would be upset with him. Also, Leonard does not have to justify his feelings to anyone and he does have a say in who he associates with in his own apartment.

Think how much worse it would be if Sheldon hooked up with Penny? Leonard would not have anything to do with either one of them after that. Also Howard and Raj would end up having to pick sides and who do you think they would side with?

Outside of how strange and distasteful it would be for Sheldon and Penny to become a couple, it would also destroy the relationships between the various characters on the show.

I don't think it has anything to do with how Leonard may or may not feel about Penny hooking up with any of the guys. It has to do with who would want to get together with whom.

When Penny supposedly slept with Raj, Leonard didn't have any claim to Penny and was still involved with Priya, just about to shift into having a long-distance relationship with her. Although he might be shocked at the idea, he had another girlfriend at the time and didn't really get to have a say in what either of them did.

And if he was supposedly in love with Priya, then why would he get upset about anyone that Penny decided to sleep with? Does he get to put a fence around Penny just because he was once in love with her? At this point he's trying to make a long-lasting relationship with Priya, supposedly wanting her to stay with him, or wanting to go to India with her, so why would he still feel strongly about Penny sleeping with Raj? He can't lay claim to both Priya and Penny.

As for him feeling betrayed if Penny were to get together with Sheldon, I think he would only feel betrayed if he were trying to get back together with her at the time.

Now, at this point, that's where he and Penny are--trying once again to make their relationship work. I don't think Penny would be looking to get together with Sheldon, of all people, at this point. And Sheldon certainly isn't looking to get involved with Penny, either.

And I think Amy would probably feel more betrayed than Leonard would. Leonard has been up and down with Penny, in and out of relationship with her and with others. Amy and Sheldon have only ever had each other, and Amy looks at Penny as her best friend. Penny is the one who has been helping Amy come out of her shell, including in her relationship with Sheldon. For Penny to then swoop in and start moving in on Sheldon would be a worse betrayal for Amy.

But to me the main reason it wouldn't make sense is that there's NO ROMANTIC ATTRACTION between Penny and Sheldon. She's not even remotely interested in him and he's certainly not interested in her. And neither of them has felt such an attraction for the other at any time in the past.

Edited September 25, 2012 by phantagrae

[rickfromillinois]

If they are going to have an episode with Penny and Sheldon together, dream or not, I hope they give advanced notice. I will be certain to watch something else that night.

[HeWolf]

If they are going to have an episode with Penny and Sheldon together, dream or not, I hope they give advanced notice. I will be certain to watch something else that night.

That makes two of us...

[rubyanjel]

Yes. Make it three. They better warn us so I won't have to go thinking of a way to watch an episode and simply go to my class and listen to a boring professor than watch something like that. But if there's actually going to be that kind of episode, we know the gals from the LG would definitely go looking for a summary of a taping so we would definitely be warned ahead.

[bigbangsheldon]

I'd watch it but I really think the LP 100th special is the only dream (whole episode) they'll do

[annieogly]

hey it's just a suggestion; who knows if the writers will do it. I hope so, just to see.... I think it's the only time you see Sheldon voluntarily get emotional with another person; it's when he's fighting with Penny, rewatch 'The Party Pinata Polarization' All that anger, strikes, vengeance, classic foreplay;-)

[Guest I'm not dead Cheryl]

hey it's just a suggestion; who knows if the writers will do it. I hope so, just to see.... I think it's the only time you see Sheldon voluntarily get emotional with another person; it's when he's fighting with Penny, rewatch 'The Party Pinata Polarization' All that anger, strikes, vengeance, classic foreplay;-)

I disagree. watch The Pulled Groin Extrapolation (he even hits Leonard) and Shiny Trinket Maneuver (specially when he yells at Howard & Leonard) THAT's the angriest Sheldon has ever gotten.... and it was over Amy.

also, foreplay means to "tease" someone in hoping of getting a sexual/arousal response from the other. Unless you are watching another show, there was never "foreplay" between Sheldon and Penny. The only "foreplay" Sheldon ever got into was the Star Trek role playing... and it wasn't even foreplay on his part (at least that we know of)

[Doug]

hey it's just a suggestion; who knows if the writers will do it. I hope so, just to see.... I think it's the only time you see Sheldon voluntarily get emotional with another person; it's when he's fighting with Penny, rewatch 'The Party Pinata Polarization' All that anger, strikes, vengeance, classic foreplay;-)

I would not call it foreplay but I would have loved to have seen them finish their prank duel rather then have had Leonard short circuit it.

[annieogly]

I would not call it foreplay but I would have loved to have seen them finish their prank duel rather then have had Leonard short circuit it.

Well let's continue it: Penny kidnaps Sheldon's Flash & Batman comics and replaces them with Jughead and Archies. Sheldon infuriated, puts green body dye in Penny's bath salts turning her into Galia the sexually free green Orion slave girl; Penny rushes out of the bath into the apartment and flings herself on Sheldon to rub the dye all over him, they roll around on the floor and then with extreme prejudice she kisses him....We're in Taming of the Shrew territory if Leonard doesn't cut it short....