bigbangsheldon Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 This thread will go down in history. Is there a longer one ? (on this site) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantagrae Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 I see this as an example of the joke comes first. The scene breaks down if you look beyond the joke. Shoot they even sort of have Howard and Raj comment on it. I see this also as the Joke comes first. You are right in saying that if you look beyond the joke this almost can not happen by accident. I am not a fan of the term but if forced I would say more of a Betty and Veronica situation. I'm not sure I quite understand exactly what you're saying here. I would say that they played the L&P as mom and dad bit for laughs--like they're a divorced couple sharing custody of their child, griping over visitation issues, etc., but beyond the joke, the truth is that Sheldon is like a child to Penny in many ways, or like a younger brother, etc. He will go to her for advice--and these days it's just as likely to be advice about Amy--how to win her back from Stuart (or, more generally, how to keep her from dating other men), and how to repair the relationship when he hurts Amy's feelings, and so forth. And as far as peeking, if he was curious about seeing her naked, with Sheldon it's most likely almost clinical. He wasn't drooling over her the way Leonard, Howard or even Raj would have been, he wasn't making crude comments or coming on to her or milking the situation as some kind of opportunity, the way the other guys might have. I think that the humor here was certainly that Sheldon was forced to help Penny--someone he's not really close to, not the way Leonard is--forced to drive when he really doesn't know how, forced to try to be sympathetic when he really isn't at heart, and was even forced to be comforting, "forced" to sing Soft Kitty. He went along with it all, but not out of some kind of romantic love for Penny. It was more a sense of obligation and friendship and perhaps a nod to his upbringing or his sense of honor or something. I don't think Penny as a girlfriend is even on his radar, much less as an alternative to Amy. When he asked her out to make Amy jealous, I think he asked her because she's probably the only girl he really knows besides Amy. He's not going to go ask some random stranger on a date. Penny is a safe alternative because she's his friend and he probably knows that nothing would come of it except to hopefully get Amy back. His misunderstanding about being "the guy" is, IMO, typical Sheldon ego-centrism. He looms large in his own mind, so why not in everyone else's? In the end, the solution to the question lies in his relationship with Amy. She was the one he "strapped on a pair" for, she was the one he asked to be his girlfriend, she is the only one he has ever held hands with, she's the only one he has ever kissed, she is the one he goes out on dates with, she is the one whose feelings he is concerned about (apologizing for his thoughtless behavior, making Howard and Leonard have "their women" apologize to Amy, saying something from the heart--even if borrowed--to keep her from breaking up with him), she is the one he chose to spend his vacation with, even apologizing in order to be allowed to stay with her. Amy is able to make him take these steps, and even though he may be reluctant to change his ways, in the end Amy trumps his status quo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disgusted Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 This thread will go down in history. Is there a longer one ? (on this site) The photo thread is 38 pages and counting.... probably fewer posts per page, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubyanjel Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Don't you like to be a part of history, honey? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbangsheldon Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Babe, of course I would. 743 posts!!! Damn.. I don't like that thread that much, it fucks my computer up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPK Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 (edited) It amazes me how the events of the AHDD are still incorrectly interpreted or should say deliberately viewed in a context which was clearly not the writers intent. Sheldon grabbing Penny's breast was completely accidental and it stired absolutely no sexual curiosity in him whatsoever and to even try to interpret it any other way is simply wishful thinking that has no basis in reality and clearly not the intent of the writers. The other bit with Sheldon peeking, again it had nothing to do with any kind of sexual attraction or interest in Penny from Sheldon's end. It was all about convention. The entire Sheldon/Penny storyline in that episode was TBBT version of the classic hero saves damsel in distress fairy tale with a twist, Sheldon is viewing himself as the hero saving the damsil in distress. Usually in these classic tales the hero ends up getting to see the damsel either partially naked or completely naked. Sheldon choosing to follow these conventions fit in pefectly with his character and his typical OCD behaviors. The only real twist happening here is that unlike the hero in the typical story who either gets to bed the damsel in the end or is at least sexually attacted to her, Sheldon isn't. That is also where a lot of the humor comes in because Sheldon in a way was getting to live out a fantasy most normal guys or his friends in particular would have loved but Sheldon is simply too dense in the realm the normal hot blooded male to really understand just "how lucky" he was in that case. Again this is typical Shenny shipper confirmation bias at work. They'll try and twist just about anything that happens in a Sheldon and Penny scene to try and make somehow hinting that there's some secret connection/attraction between the two. They'll take just about anything out of it's proper context to make it some how fit. Edited October 6, 2012 by DPK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady-Geek Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 It would be an ironic twist, but it would also abolish his character. The fact that he has any relationship with a female has undefined his character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantagrae Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 It would be an ironic twist, but it would also abolish his character. The fact that he has any relationship with a female has undefined his character. Okay, that's just ignorant. Of course this isn't a "Shenny" moment, but just because Sheldon isn't enticed by women generally doesn't mean that he is totally incapable of being attracted to any woman ever. I know you hate the idea of the Shamy, but unlike Penny, Amy is the kind of woman that is right up his narrowly defined little alley. He's not jumping in the sack with Amy any time soon, but having feelings for her doesn't "undefine" his character (whatever the heck that's supposed to mean), nor does it abolish his character or make him less unique. I think that the fact that Amy is the one who opens him up is what makes him and the relationship continue to be unique. Most guys, even the geekiest, nerdiest guys, would be drooling over a girl like Penny--beautiful in the conventional sense, easy-going, sociable, etc.--but Sheldon is effectively immune to her charms. But along comes Amy, the kind of girl that pretty much every guy would ignore or even ridicule, and for all the reasons others would do so, she is appealing to Sheldon--her brains, her way of looking at science and life, etc. And he is so taken by her mind that everything else has begun to come along with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady-Geek Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 To assist you: v. t. 1. To make indefinite; to obliterate or confuse the definition or limitations of. Does that help you at all? The fact remains he is a character on a television show. His character would be better off simple an naive of women and other social abilities. That is what made him so very original and unique. No sense in debating opinions - after all it is an opinion and that's a fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoveShamy Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Respecting all opinions here but I agree with phantagrae. After all Sheldon did not want to talk to Penny in the first place Leonard did. But when Sheldon was told about Amy he was not bothered until he was introduced to Amy, and as soon as she talked he was interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbangsheldon Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 He always blames Leonard for Penny's actions too, "everything about her is on you!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pomita Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 That's a lovely Shamy video! She really is the 'only exception', for Sheldon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantagrae Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 this music video kind of shows that Penny is like a older sister/mother type relationship with Sheldon. Amy and Sheldon - only exception. Love it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubyanjel Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 The presence of that video here is continuously increasing the view count! WOOOT WOOOOOT!!! He always blames Leonard for Penny's actions too, "everything about her is on you!" Leonard: Why do I have to talk to Penny? She's not my girlfriend. Sheldon: You invited her for lunch four years ago. Everything about her is on you. YOU MAKE IT SO! He's making Penny apologize to Amy. He's offended on Amy's behalf. If he loooooves Penny then he would have told Amy that she should just let what Penny did to her pass because he's sooo forgiving.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoveShamy Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Hehe It is a good video isnt it, when I came across it, I thought it was perfect - share! (although some scenes are are made to miss interrupt) eg Sheldon moping on his bed while Penny re-ensures him makes it look like its about Amy but its not, its about Leonard messing with his results at the North pole. The Video just really explains and shows the relationship between Amy and Sheldon Amy being the only exception It also shows that Leonard and Penny are like mother and father to him at some points - they argue, upset Sheldon he runs away they find him and buy him a toy and comic to make things better, put him to bed take him to Disneyland ect. Just such a great video. Shamy! <3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annieogly Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 (edited) In regards to the Shenny shippers; they are dispirited and are migrating to fanfiction for their fix. They didn't notice that Penny turned away when Amy commented on her 4 year marriage plan. I missed that, it was too subtle but I did notice that Penny didn't comment, which is unlike her. So if it wasn't shipper service, I imagine it's insurance by the writers for the future. They can always have Penny rehear it and get jealous etc...if they wish to go that way. In case the show's numbers weaken. I was watching the 2nd episode & sighing not laughing and my friend who was watching with me, put her finger on it; 'they're acting like normal people.' Penny was always the normal girl who entered Nerdvana - that's funny. Amy is the nerdy girl who desperately wants to be normal; with a boyfriend, going to the mall with her girl pals. That doesn't interest me or excite my creativity. So I've become disengaged. I'm enjoying "Elementary" who doesn't love Sherlock Holmes; he's so eccentric and wants to stay that way & drags normal Dr. Watson along & Warehouse 13 is going to have a Myka-H.G Wells pairing which will be fun & the plots are so over the top. Edited October 8, 2012 by annieogly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubyanjel Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Hehe It is a good video isnt it, when I came across it, I thought it was perfect - share! (although some scenes are are made to miss interrupt) eg Sheldon moping on his bed while Penny re-ensures him makes it look like its about Amy but its not, its about Leonard messing with his results at the North pole. The Video just really explains and shows the relationship between Amy and Sheldon Amy being the only exception It also shows that Leonard and Penny are like mother and father to him at some points - they argue, upset Sheldon he runs away they find him and buy him a toy and comic to make things better, put him to bed take him to Disneyland ect. Just such a great video. Shamy! <3 Glad you liked the video! It took me a day to finish it and I even had to leave early from my class to be able to upload it at home. You know, I think what's bad about us canon shippers is that we're so lazy. Everything we use has already been established. So when we want an avatar of our characters kissing, we just take a screencap, unlike some ships who are creative enough to do some editing and make those characters look as if they're kissing or even making out in bed! But that's the dreaded canon laziness and lack of imagination. I guess if I want a picture or a gifset of my ship to be making out, I'd have to wait for a few more episodes or maybe even next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BangerMain Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 (edited) In regards to the Shenny shippers; they are dispirited and are migrating to fanfiction for their fix. They didn't notice that Penny turned away when Amy commented on her 4 year marriage plan. I missed that, it was too subtle but I did notice that Penny didn't comment, which is unlike her. So if it wasn't shipper service, I imagine it's insurance by the writers for the future. They can always have Penny rehear it and get jealous etc...if they wish to go that way. In case the show's numbers weaken. I was watching the 2nd episode & sighing not laughing and my friend who was watching with me, put her finger on it; 'they're acting like normal people.' Penny was always the normal girl who entered Nerdvana - that's funny. Amy is the nerdy girl who desperately wants to be normal; with a boyfriend, going to the mall with her girl pals. That doesn't interest me or excite my creativity. So I've become disengaged. I'm enjoying "Elementary" who doesn't love Sherlock Holmes; he's so eccentric and wants to stay that way & drags normal Dr. Watson along & Warehouse 13 is going to have a Myka-H.G Wells pairing which will be fun & the plots are so over the top. How much do you think the tweeting incident between the agressive Shennys in the other forum and Bill Prady caused the Shenny killing scene in the last episode? Was Prady that angry? Edited October 8, 2012 by BangerMain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbangsheldon Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Shenny killing scene? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantagrae Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 I don't think that Penny walking over to the counter during the marriage conversation had anything to do with "killing the Shenny" or not killing the Shenny or anything else like that. I doubt that Penny was so far from Bernie and Amy that she couldn't hear what they were talking about. I think it's just a matter of scene timing, dialog timing, etc. If TPTB were really trying to send any kind of message about Shenny vs Shamy, I think they'd find a funnier, more significant way to do that. I think that sometimes a cigar is just a cigar and that in this case, the real message of the scene was the question of what it is that Penny wants from her relationship with Leonard and how she feels about the future. I don't think it's as if she's wanting to break up with Leonard so that she can go after Sheldon or anything like that, or that she'd be heartbroken to hear about Amy's 4-year plan or whatever. I think that the move to the counter was mostly so that the scene wouldn't be too visually stagnant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbangsheldon Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Woah haha, I thought I'd heard it all about 6.02 but now this haha! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbase Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 (edited) Urm sorry… this probably came from something I wrote earlier on the episode thread. It wasn't the scene when Penny walked away. It was the conversation they had in her bedroom. Sheldon told her he didn't like change and that he wanted her to continue dating Leonard. He also said he didn't want his friend hurt. I thought it could be seen as a blow to the shenny's cause. It's certainly not what they would want to hear Sheldon say. Edited October 8, 2012 by Moonbase Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbangsheldon Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 They seem pretty pleased with the scene actually they still believe that its all a theory to make Shenny happen. Because penny doesn't love Leonard or something so she wants to be with Sheldon and he's not happy with Amy so they're both not happy and BAM SHENNY! (actual things i've been reading, i can't make this stuff up) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbase Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 They seem pretty pleased with the scene actually they still believe that its all a theory to make Shenny happen. Because penny doesn't love Leonard or something so she wants to be with Sheldon and he's not happy with Amy so they're both not happy and BAM SHENNY! (actual things i've been reading, i can't make this stuff up) Wow, I thought there would be shenny tears after that scene. I underestimated the sheer think skinned determination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BangerMain Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 (edited) Urm sorry… this probably came from something I wrote earlier on the episode thread. It wasn't the scene when Penny walked away. It was the conversation they had in her bedroom. Sheldon told her he didn't like change and that he wanted her to continue dating Leonard. He also said he didn't want his friend hurt. I thought it could be seen as a blow to the shenny's cause. It's certainly not what they would want to hear Sheldon say. Right on Moonbase! That is exactly the scene in question that has caused angst in ShennyLand. That's why annieogly said they are dispirited and moving to fan fiction now. The really hard core just used the images of Sheldon on Penny's bed to make sexually suggestive GIFs but others got the message loud and clear. There was some discussion that this was a shot to the heart from Bill Prady having Sheldon say that he wanted no change in the status quo. Some of the Shennys got into a tweet scuffle with Prady this May and he got quite nasty with one of them who is on the Lollipop Guild forum. They also tried to flood him with messges and he blocked them and repeated the company mantra, "it's not going to happend". There is some feeling that this is his revenge. But it's never going to stop the true fanatics. Edited October 9, 2012 by BangerMain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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