PENNY AND SHELDON MAYBE?

[rickfromillinois]

We are talking about people who get all worked up if Penny calls him sweetie or they exchange words without insulting each other. I take that back, I've seen some propose that they don't really mean the insults and that it is just a form of flirting.

[Ðꧧï©å‡êÐ ©ø®þ§ê]

This would be the result if Penny and Sheldon had a relationship:

[annieogly]

Actually Moonbase; I thought that was interesting. I enjoyed the episode for the Sheldon-Penny comedic interaction, they're so good together. But yes the kissing surprised me. Not one kiss but a bunch of playful ones from Penny and no resistance from Sheldon. No outright expressions of disgust & fear of germs etc. I wonder if this might be a subtle attempt at foreshadowing as Doug suggested a while back about last year's episodes with Penny & Sheldon saying they're not a married couple

It does mean that the writers laid down markers in:

The Infestation Hypothesis

The Flaming Spittoon Acquisition

The Shiny Trinket Maneuver

All contain traditional foreshadowing devices the writers can use if they decide to.

[phantagrae]

Actually Moonbase; I thought that was interesting. I enjoyed the episode for the Sheldon-Penny comedic interaction, they're so good together. But yes the kissing surprised me. Not one kiss but a bunch of playful ones from Penny and no resistance from Sheldon. No outright expressions of disgust & fear of germs etc. I wonder if this might be a subtle attempt at foreshadowing as Doug suggested a while back about last year's episodes with Penny & Sheldon saying they're not a married couple

It does mean that the writers laid down markers in:

The Infestation Hypothesis

The Flaming Spittoon Acquisition

The Shiny Trinket Maneuver

All contain traditional foreshadowing devices the writers can use if they decide to.

"Traditional foreshadowing devices"????

You've got to be kidding. I just watched the scene from Flaming Spittoon where Sheldon starts off asking Penny on a date--and what I saw in that scene is a very clear shooting down of any Shenny relationship.

Penny very astutely saw right through Sheldon's question and knew that what he really was trying to do had to do with his being upset that Amy was on a date--a second date--with Stuart. When she mentions it, Sheldon at first denies it (as he naturally would do), but he very quickly asks what would be a way of getting Amy back. HE DOESN'T REALLY WANT TO DATE PENNY!!!

Penny tells him her little story, which seems to me to be about Leonard.

When Sheldon says that he, Sheldon, is "the guy", it's clearly a matter of his ego coming into play. And I think it's the writers' way of saying that Penny's "constant presence" in the guys' apartment is NOT about Penny wanting Sheldon.

When Penny tells him, "You're not the guy"--THAT is the truth of that scene. "You are SO not the guy." She even underscores that her use of the term "Sweetie" is NOT a declaration of love for Sheldon because she calls EVERYONE "Sweetie".

And finally, when she tells him to "strap on a pair" and go talk to Amy, that is exactly what he does--he doesn't even wait for her to be finished with her date, but feels compelled to interrupt the date in order to stake a proprietary claim on the woman he DOES want--AMY.

There is no foreshadowing of any kind of romance between Sheldon and Penny. If anything, they're underscoring again and again that SHeldon and Penny are NOT a couple and never will be.

Did you learn about foreshadowing in school? Because if you did, you might want to take a refresher course.

I've taken theater classes and Lit classes and have heard a lot about "foreshadowing" and what you're trying to talk about is not foreshadowing of any kind of Shenny relationship.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, and sometimes--as is the case here--two characters saying, "Trust me, we are NOT a couple" is exactly what it seems--a denial of any kind of coupledom between them.

In the Infestation Hypothesis S and P were bored and goofing around and teasing each other, but they were not laying the groundwork for a relationship. Penny was offering Sheldon some hospitality by allowing him to hang out, but they weren't "playing house".

In Flaming Spittoon, Sheldon actually does "strap on a pair" and asks AMY to be his girlfriend (NOT Penny.)

In Shiny Trinket, both Sheldon and Penny state firmly and for the record that they are NOT a couple.

If they're foreshadowing anything it's that Sheldon and AMY are a couple and that Amy understands how Sheldon works and that Sheldon wants Amy for himself. He may not know how to admit it, but he's in love with Amy.

I don't know if it's funny or sad that you're just SO SURE that the writers are doing something when they've said pretty consistently that they are NOT going down that path.

[Moonbase]

@ DPK

True, I understand the sibling torture angle. I have a sister who would have probably pretended she was going to spit on me in that situation, but I don't suppose they could have Penny doing that. LOL!

@ annie

From what little the gif shows, he did have a furrowed brow and was protesting. The bunch of kisses does look like sibling torture. It was the first one that threw me but I'm not seeing it within the complete scene yet. Until my internet is back up

[rickfromillinois]

How anyone could think that Sheldon enjoyed being kissed ON THE CHEEK by Penny is beyond me. I guess you see what you want to see. I suppose that if this was some daytime soap opera and they really wanted it to be some kind of crazy foreshadowing of a weird relationship between Penny and Sheldon they would have a close in shot of Amy's face looking concerned and have dramatic music playing in the back ground. BUT this isn't a Soap opera, it is not a drama, TPTB aren't crazy, and there wasn't any sign what so ever that Sheldon like it. To me it was very obvious that he didn't. What's next, someone going to come up with the theory that since he had his eyes open it must have meant that he liked it? How about some crazy theory that since Amy joined in some day we are going to see Shennamy?

[Ðꧧï©å‡êÐ ©ø®þ§ê]

BUT HE OBVIOUSLY LIKED IT!!!!

[Doug]

Actually Moonbase; I thought that was interesting. I enjoyed the episode for the Sheldon-Penny comedic interaction, they're so good together. But yes the kissing surprised me. Not one kiss but a bunch of playful ones from Penny and no resistance from Sheldon. No outright expressions of disgust & fear of germs etc. I wonder if this might be a subtle attempt at foreshadowing as Doug suggested a while back about last year's episodes with Penny & Sheldon saying they're not a married couple

It does mean that the writers laid down markers in:

The Infestation Hypothesis

The Flaming Spittoon Acquisition

The Shiny Trinket Maneuver

All contain traditional foreshadowing devices the writers can use if they decide to.

I would not call this foreshadowing.

It is good old teenage behavior and development.

As innocent as the writers want it to be or the reverse.

It gives the writers options without picking a direction.

It will be very useful if the writers go in Penny/Sheldon direction.

It is also helps to establish Penny and Sheldon as equals.

IMO Sheldon’s comment about Penny and wet t-shirt contests and Amy’s reaction comes closer to potential foreshadowing.

[Europa]

Penny kissing Sheldon was meant as torment (and was taken by Sheldon as torment). It reminds me of the stuff brothers and sisters do. If Penny were a guy in that situation it would have been threatening to hock a loogie on his face instead of kissing.

I do love the chemistry these two have, but it's not romantic chemistry, for reasons that have been enumerated over the last 30 pages

[rickfromillinois]

I would not call this foreshadowing.

It is good old teenage behavior and development.

As innocent as the writers want it to be or the reverse.

It gives the writers options without picking a direction.

It will be very useful if the writers go in Penny/Sheldon direction.

It is also helps to establish Penny and Sheldon as equals.

IMO Sheldon’s comment about Penny and wet t-shirt contests and Amy’s reaction comes closer to potential foreshadowing.

What would be even more helpful for any writer who wants to put Sheldon and Penny together is either theorpy or directions to the nearest unemployment office. To quite the Shenny fanatics they might have to at all times keep the two characters in seperate rooms. I doubt if even that would work. I can hear it now, "did you see the look on Sheldon's face when he heard Penny on the phone, or how she looked at Sheldon when she saw him out the window"? Time for a reality check. There is nothing romantic between Sheldon and Penny. There never is going to be anything between Sheldon and Penny.

[DPK]

"Traditional foreshadowing devices"????

You've got to be kidding. I just watched the scene from Flaming Spittoon where Sheldon starts off asking Penny on a date--and what I saw in that scene is a very clear shooting down of any Shenny relationship.

Penny very astutely saw right through Sheldon's question and knew that what he really was trying to do had to do with his being upset that Amy was on a date--a second date--with Stuart. When she mentions it, Sheldon at first denies it (as he naturally would do), but he very quickly asks what would be a way of getting Amy back. HE DOESN'T REALLY WANT TO DATE PENNY!!!

Penny tells him her little story, which seems to me to be about Leonard.

When Sheldon says that he, Sheldon, is "the guy", it's clearly a matter of his ego coming into play. And I think it's the writers' way of saying that Penny's "constant presence" in the guys' apartment is NOT about Penny wanting Sheldon.

When Penny tells him, "You're not the guy"--THAT is the truth of that scene. "You are SO not the guy." She even underscores that her use of the term "Sweetie" is NOT a declaration of love for Sheldon because she calls EVERYONE "Sweetie".

And finally, when she tells him to "strap on a pair" and go talk to Amy, that is exactly what he does--he doesn't even wait for her to be finished with her date, but feels compelled to interrupt the date in order to stake a proprietary claim on the woman he DOES want--AMY.

There is no foreshadowing of any kind of romance between Sheldon and Penny. If anything, they're underscoring again and again that SHeldon and Penny are NOT a couple and never will be.

Did you learn about foreshadowing in school? Because if you did, you might want to take a refresher course.

I've taken theater classes and Lit classes and have heard a lot about "foreshadowing" and what you're trying to talk about is not foreshadowing of any kind of Shenny relationship.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, and sometimes--as is the case here--two characters saying, "Trust me, we are NOT a couple" is exactly what it seems--a denial of any kind of coupledom between them.

In the Infestation Hypothesis S and P were bored and goofing around and teasing each other, but they were not laying the groundwork for a relationship. Penny was offering Sheldon some hospitality by allowing him to hang out, but they weren't "playing house".

In Flaming Spittoon, Sheldon actually does "strap on a pair" and asks AMY to be his girlfriend (NOT Penny.)

In Shiny Trinket, both Sheldon and Penny state firmly and for the record that they are NOT a couple.

If they're foreshadowing anything it's that Sheldon and AMY are a couple and that Amy understands how Sheldon works and that Sheldon wants Amy for himself. He may not know how to admit it, but he's in love with Amy.

I don't know if it's funny or sad that you're just SO SURE that the writers are doing something when they've said pretty consistently that they are NOT going down that path.

Precisely.

As for the scene in the most recent episode. Sheldon is clearly not enjoying Penny's torture, his germ phobia is just that, a phobia that isn't going to help him escape what's happening to him because his character is partially defined is being physically weak, weak enough that a female half his size is able to thow him around and keep him pinned. He actually cries out for help and if he really had any kind of interest in Penny, even on a more subconcious level he wouldn't have said anything. As for Penny, her kissing his nose and cheeks is just a way of torturing him and she does it because she knows he won't like it. For the record lets go ahead and point out the one place on his face where she doesn't kiss him, the place that would actually carry some weight in this argument, the one place where you might be able to argue for the writers as planting any kind of foreshadowing by have her actually do it, kind of like they did with Leonard back in season one's The Peanut Reaction, and the one place where Amy has in fact kissed him....wait for it............ON THE LIPS.

If the writers were really going for any kind of substantial foreshadowing with this scene they would have had Penny kiss Sheldon on the mouth. The nose and cheek are much more innocent and are more often than not carry a non romantic text and subtext most of the time. The mouth/lips on the other is a completely different story. The lips almost always carry the romantic/sexual text and subtext. You want to see a good example of where the writers actually foreshadow anything look no further than season one's The Peanut Reaction. Up to this point in the series the writers had left smaller hints, nothing substantial that while Leonard clearly was interested in Penny, that Penny might in fact harbor some level of interest in Leonard. Then this episode the writers not only confirm that to be the case, at least on a subconscious level, but they confirm it a substantial way. After the failed birthday party, Penny and Leonard are sitting on couch, Penny looks at him wishes him a happy birthday, puts her arm around him and then proceeds to kiss him on the mouth, she holds the kiss for a good 3 to 5 seconds. Then she gets up and walks to the kitchen. Penny could have easily just kissed him on the cheek like she had before or even simply given him a hug, but the writers have her not on kiss him on the mouth but actually hold the kiss. You want foreshadowing, that is foreshadowing and foreshadowing done properly.

Edited October 21, 2012 by DPK

[BlackWhiteRose]

That would be my facial expression about them (Penny and Sheldon )as a couple:

Edited March 9, 2015 by BlackWhiteRose

[sarah7]

Totally agree with DPK and Phantagrae, to call what happened in the latest episode "foreshadowing" of a potential hook up for the waitress and the lunatic physicist is (for not calling it ridiculous) just wishful thinking.

In fact, I know the shippers are already rejoicing because of the scene (and will continue doing so forever and ever), but I actually think is one more of those clear proofs that between those two there's not a single hint of romantic attraction. I mean, if the writers were actually considering something like that to happen someday, they would have never done it, at least not in the way it happened: Penny pins down Sheldon and shamelessly gives him chaste kisses in front of his girlfriend and the guy she is dating, there's not the single indication she feels something in particular (other than enjoying bothering her misophobic friend), Sheldon is surprised and clearly not enjoying it, his first reaction is calling out Amy's name asking for help (perhaps unconsiciously admitting he feels no other woman has the right to kiss him?) Leonard doesn't rise an eyebrow, there's no hint of jealousy from Amy (the same woman that behaved all territorial over her man just past episode), instead, she playfully joins the clear torture she knows the kissing represents for her boyfriend, she knows Penny is no threat for her relationship. There's no sexual or romantic tension of any kind, everything is fine and normal.

If they really wanted to "foreshadow" something, what started as an innocent manouver, would have ended in awkwardness and confussion for Penny and even for Sheldon (with clear indication that one of them, or even both, actually felt something), and uneasiness for the other parts of the couples, specially Amy, but nothing like that happened. Most likely the games night was suspended for several minutes while Sheldon went to wash himself and Penny and Amy kept enjoying their mischief for a while.

It all was innocent and, as you all have mentioned, sibling-like interaction.

The shipper-crazes will endlessly claim the contrary, of course, but just will be their usual delusion

Edited October 21, 2012 by sarah7

[BangerMain]

Totally agree with DPK and Phantagrae, to call what happened in the latest episode "foreshadowing" of a potential hook up for the waitress and the lunatic physicist is (for not calling it ridiculous) just wishful thinking.

In fact, I know the shippers are already rejoicing because of the scene (and will continue doing so forever and ever), but I actually think is one more of those clear proofs that between those two there's not a single hint of romantic attraction. I mean, if the writers were actually considering something like that to happen someday, they would have never done it, at least not in the way it happened: Penny pins down Sheldon and shamelessly gives him chaste kisses in front of his girlfriend and the guy she is dating, there's not the single indication she feels something in particular (other than enjoying bothering her misophobic friend), Sheldon is surprised and clearly not enjoying it, his first reaction is calling out Amy's name asking for help (perhaps unconsiciously admitting he feels no other woman has the right to kiss him?) Leonard doesn't rise an eyebrow, there's no hint of jealousy from Amy (the same woman that behaved all territorial over her man just past episode), instead, she playfully joins the clear torture she knows the kissing represents for her boyfriend, she knows Penny is no threat for her relationship. There's no sexual or romantic tension of any kind, everything is fine and normal.

If they really wanted to "foreshadow" something, what started as an innocent manouver, would have ended in awkwardness and confussion for Penny and even for Sheldon (with clear indication that one of them, or even both, actually felt something), and uneasiness for the other parts of the couples, specially Amy, but nothing like that happened. Most likely the games night was suspended for several minutes while Sheldon went to wash himself and Penny and Amy kept enjoying their mischief for a while.

It all was innocent and, as you all have mentioned, sibling-like interaction.

The shipper-crazes will endlessly claim the contrary, of course, but just will be their usual delusion

Your logic is impeccable.

If there was going to be any foreshadowing of Penny's "hidden" feelings for Sheldon, she would not do any kissing in front of their significant others. Leonard and Amy knew exactly what she was doing the moment she did it, a victory torment for her old adversary.

I suppose the hard core Shennys will say: this was Penny doing this to throw Amy and Lenonard off the real purpose. I get a headache thinking through that convoluted scenario.

[rickfromillinois]

I think that everyone is overlooking several important things that took place in the last episode. Penny and Sheldon were in the same room and they talked to each other! Obviosly the writers are preparing us for them becoming a couple!

[phantagrae]

I think that everyone is overlooking several important things that took place in the last episode. Penny and Sheldon were in the same room and they talked to each other! Obviosly the writers are preparing us for them becoming a couple!

FORESHADOWING!!!!!11!!11!!!

[rickfromillinois]

Not only that but they played games together! They are only one step away from playing strip poker and naked twister with wesson oil!

[annieogly]

I would not call this foreshadowing.

It is good old teenage behavior and development.

As innocent as the writers want it to be or the reverse.

It gives the writers options without picking a direction.

It will be very useful if the writers go in Penny/Sheldon direction.

It is also helps to establish Penny and Sheldon as equals.

IMO Sheldon’s comment about Penny and wet t-shirt contests and Amy’s reaction comes closer to potential foreshadowing.

You're right foreshadow was too much; the season is devoted to Sheldon going through adolescence; holding hands, first kisses etc it leaves options.

Equals, you're right didn't Penny make Sheldon say he was wrong & taunt him to his face. No one else stands up to him like that & you have a sharp eye; I didn't pick up on the wet t shirt & Amy's look of dismay but later I saw it. Sheldon cognizant of wet t shirts & Penny; now that's a cocktail...

I'm wondering since the episode was so popular if they'll keep Leonard & Penny in stasis for the entire season so they can interact with everyone & kill the angst. Amy is doing her bit to keep them together. Maybe Feb sweeps will be about Sheldon reaching another adolescent milestone.

[rubyanjel]

Hi guys I'm back from the dead. Anyway, I saw an argument from a shenny shipper in tumblr and I literally guffawed. I had to block some people from their apparent demented minds for being THIS thick.

They said something about the episode being a proof that Sheldon and Penny would be a perfect couple. They were saying that Amy was supposed to be Sheldon's female counterpart and that Penny and Amy winning proves how their chemistry works and how "opposites do attract". The fact that Leonard and Sheldon were team mates and that they're "of the same minds" did they lose to the two girls means that Sheldon and Amy doesn't fit together. Yadda, Yadda, Yadda.

After reading that last week, I literally had to restrain myself from my bitching mode. Come on.

Dissecting the argument would be like this:

-The episode was to show how Penny and Amy (the girls) are to beat the heck out of the guys. Penny's line about handing someone's butt to them to appease the God of Losers is actually THE AIM OF THE FREAKING SUBPLOT. They wanted to show disprove Sheldon's line about any team not having him has a disadvantage.

-Penny and Amy worked out because Amy and Penny were able to communicate well. It's not a fair comparison to say that Amy's supposed to be his female counterpart because, obviously, if Sheldon was Penny's teammate, Sheldon would be doing such guesses as he did with Leonard's drawings. Come on, how hard can that be grasped from the episode? In this episode, they wanted to show how Sheldon would always take the long shot instead of the shortcut.

-Leonard and Sheldon weren't able to score a single point because of, well, Sheldon. Leonard drew a choco chip cookie. Sheldon complained that it needed a glass of milk. Sheldon mistook the word "polish" and thought it was referring to the nationality. I never even saw that "they were of the same minds" because if they were, Leonard could've guessed the items easily.

-That logic trail is so misguided that I'm pulling my hair out.

-Lastly, it never was about "opposites attract". Because there was no romantic hinting whatsoever in the episode. That rule only applies to subatomic particles and charges, not on humans. If opposites attract, then Hitler would've been best friends with someone Jewish.

Edit: Excuse me for that last part. I do not intend that to be a joke but I just want to make a point about how the idea "opposites attract" do not work. This, coming from someone whose grandmother's siblings were raped by Japanese soldiers during WW II and that my grandfather's relatives were part of the Bataan Death March. Yes, it's not funny at all.

Edited October 23, 2012 by jeanalice

[phantagrae]

You're right foreshadow was too much; the season is devoted to Sheldon going through adolescence; holding hands, first kisses etc it leaves options.

Equals, you're right didn't Penny make Sheldon say he was wrong & taunt him to his face. No one else stands up to him like that & you have a sharp eye; I didn't pick up on the wet t shirt & Amy's look of dismay but later I saw it. Sheldon cognizant of wet t shirts & Penny; now that's a cocktail...

I'm wondering since the episode was so popular if they'll keep Leonard & Penny in stasis for the entire season so they can interact with everyone & kill the angst. Amy is doing her bit to keep them together. Maybe Feb sweeps will be about Sheldon reaching another adolescent milestone.

This line of "logic" is so illogical it would make Spock throw up.

This episode did not establish Penny and Sheldon as equals--she beat him at every turn because he overthinks everything and assumes he knows everything. And she simply knows how to play Pictionary--the shortest distance is a straight line.

The thing about the wet t-shirt contests doesn't mean that SHeldon was envisioning Penny in a wet t-shirt. If anything, he was simply calling her a barfly and, again, only talking about the sorts of games that go on in bars. There is no "cocktail" to that. Sheldon was all about trying to find another game to play, the same as the others.

Again, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

There is no open option for the writers--why would they need an open option to something they have no intention of developing.

I really, really, really find it absolutely baffling that anyone would still cling to the idea that the writers have any intention of putting Penny and Sheldon together when Prady and Lorre have said that they're not going there.

Do you really think that they're all going to suddenly fulfill your fantasy when they've emphasized over and over that they're not going there?

I guess if you want to watch every episode through such delusional glasses no amount of refusal by TPTB will convince you.

Wow.

[Doug]

You're right foreshadow was too much; the season is devoted to Sheldon going through adolescence; holding hands, first kisses etc it leaves options.

Equals, you're right didn't Penny make Sheldon say he was wrong & taunt him to his face. No one else stands up to him like that & you have a sharp eye; I didn't pick up on the wet t shirt & Amy's look of dismay but later I saw it. Sheldon cognizant of wet t shirts & Penny; now that's a cocktail...

I'm wondering since the episode was so popular if they'll keep Leonard & Penny in stasis for the entire season so they can interact with everyone & kill the angst. Amy is doing her bit to keep them together. Maybe Feb sweeps will be about Sheldon reaching another adolescent milestone.

The writers are way ahead probably writing somewhere between episodes 10-12 so I doubt that will have much effect.

When it comes to couples I see two possible paths:

Full speed and damn the torpedoes.

Break up ahead.

No idea which way they are headed.

[Slicknickshady]

Too funny. Shenny is never gonna happen.

[annieogly]

The writers are way ahead probably writing somewhere between episodes 10-12 so I doubt that will have much effect.

When it comes to couples I see two possible paths:

Full speed and damn the torpedoes.

Break up ahead.

No idea which way they are headed.

That's right I forgot, not a tv writer.

Hm Season 5 ended with couples happy: Season 6 started with couples unhappy. So far the arc is to make the unhappy couples kind of happy. I can't see them breaking up the Shamy this season: but they sure need something other than Amy constantly threatening to break up to move Sheldon along It gets old. That's what was so excellent about the last episode, game night.

[Guest I'm not dead Cheryl]

I can't see them breaking up the Shamy this season: but they sure need something other than Amy constantly threatening to break up to move Sheldon along It gets old. That's what was so excellent about the last episode, game night.

She only did that only once, unless I'm remembering incorrectly. That hardly qualifies as "constantly"

Edited October 24, 2012 by Sursonica

[phantagrae]

She only did that only once, unless I'm remembering incorrectly. That hardly qualifies as "constantly"

I agree. She insists that he be honest with her, and so she'll put her foot down over certain things, like when he was trying to back his way into her being his girlfriend and also with the apology in the Vacation episode.

And he clearly wants to please her in a way that is different from how he deals with everyone else.