PENNY AND SHELDON MAYBE?

[BangerMain]

thanks for that correction BangerMain; Penny is smart but ill-educated and was unmotivated. Maybe she is/isn't the scholarly sort. Yeah I thought it was funny when Leonard said 'I've done a very bad thing' so in character. Remember when Penny beat him at chess and he refused to say she won.

Yes, the writers like to throw in little hints to indicate that Penny has some native intelligence, like her skill at video games or beating Leonard at chess but all too often she gets used as the butt of dumb blond jokes by Sheldon and sometimes in a gentler condescending way by Amy. Even Leonard took a shot at her when she made him upset during their platonic date, claiming she thought the "Cold War" was fought in the winter. He, of course, apologized for that as he knows her insecurity about her intelligence.

I'm not sure where the writing consensus is on Penny. I think they want her to be considered as having at least normal intelligence but she feels intimidate by having such a brilliant man who has equally genius-level friends. Sometimes she seems to passively except Sheldon's assessment of her thinking capacity as in the "Blond Monkey" comment. And any hint from Leonard that he may doubt for one second her mental capacity brings nuclear fire and brimstone down on him. She will not tolerate anything but complete support from him.

Edited November 12, 2012 by BangerMain

[DPK]

Yes, the writers like to throw in little hints to indicate that Penny has some native intelligence, like her skill at video games or beating Leonard at chess but all too often she gets used as the butt of dumb blond jokes by Sheldon and sometimes in a gentler condescending way by Amy. Even Leonard took a shot at her when she made him upset during their platonic date, claiming she thought the "Cold War" was fought in the winter. He, of course, apologized for that as he knows her insecurity about her intelligence.

I'm not sure where the writing consensus is on Penny. I think they want her to be considered as having at least normal intelligence but she feels intimidate by having such a brilliant man who has equally genius-level friends. Sometimes she seems to passively except Sheldon's assessment of her thinking capacity as in the "Blond Monkey" comment. And any hint from Leonard that he may doubt for one second her mental capacity brings nuclear fire and brimstone down on him. She will not tolerate anything but complete support from him.

Which again shows she values Leonard's opinion of her far more than she ever does Sheldon's. Which means her emotional feelings for Leonard are far greater and unlike Sheldon she actually puts stock in what he thinks. Which serves to disprove Shenny even more so than it already has been. Bottom line is if the writers were really going there or planned to, they would have started laying the ground work for it by now and they haven't. They only continue to reinforce both L/P and S/A.

[annieogly]

DPK: it just means it pisses her off more as Leonard understands her insecurity because he is insecure. He's repeatedly shown and says he's not confident. So it's actually meaner on his part to behave as he does. Sheldon at least supports her with Pennyblossoms, tried to teach her Physics, they did the shoe app, told her to ask him as many questions as she wished. He's confident and goes to her for advice as he knows she has a superior understanding of social interactions. Frankly everyone is a monkey to Sheldon and he tells them in no uncertain terms how dim they all are. Penny, Leonard, Raj and Wollowitz are equal in that group. As for the future; we'll see..,

BangerMain; I agree the writers are conflicted one minute Penny is a drinking, slutty blonde bimbo then they let some kind of intelligence shine through. She gets grief from Leonard, Sheldon and Amy. This year they let her beat Sheldon at pictionary which was fun; we all agreed that was a well-written show. Why not go that way, encouraging and showing off her native intelligence, common sense, and social aptitude rather than with the dumb blonde jokes; I find it sad and tiresome. This year so far I really don't see any real development of her character as was promised. She even looks bored in her scenes; I hope I'm proved wrong.

Edited November 12, 2012 by annieogly

[sarah7]

Which again shows she values Leonard's opinion of her far more than she ever does Sheldon's. Which means her emotional feelings for Leonard are far greater and unlike Sheldon she actually puts stock in what he thinks. Which serves to disprove Shenny even more so than it already has been. Bottom line is if the writers were really going there or planned to, they would have started laying the ground work for it by now and they haven't. They only continue to reinforce both L/P and S/A.

Very true DPK, Penny cares much more about Leonard's opinion of her, because deep down inside her and even when she tries to hide and deny it, she seeks for his approval.

Sheldon is just a pompous nut to her, so she just brushes off all his insults, she doesn't really care about his opinion.

And just for the record: Sheldon, confident? he is the epytome of insecurity! Otherwise, he wouldn't need to say every 5 minutes how great he is.

Just remember two weeks ago, how much he needed SH's approval and friendship, and just this last episode, the "almighty" Sheldon Cooper fearing the "unique mix of saint and squirrel" that Amy Farrah Fowler is, would leave him because "she deserves better"

"SHE DESERVES BETTER"! Coming from Sheldon's mouth, now, that's what I call love.

[rubyanjel]

DPK: it just means it pisses her off more as Leonard understands her insecurity because he is insecure. He's repeatedly shown and says he's not confident. So it's actually meaner on his part to behave as he does. Sheldon at least supports her with Pennyblossoms, tried to teach her Physics, they did the shoe app, told her to ask him as many questions as she wished. He's confident and goes to her for advice as he knows she has a superior understanding of social interactions. Frankly everyone is a monkey to Sheldon and he tells them in no uncertain terms how dim they all are. Penny, Leonard, Raj and Wollowitz are equal in that group. As for the future; we'll see..,

How are those him supporting her? Of course he's doing it because he's a show-off and that he wanted to prove he is more superior to Penny or anyone for that matter. He helped her with Penny Blossoms because he thinks that it's the only thing that Penny could achieve to be more successful. He thought her Physics because he's willing to show off how much he knows of the topic and maybe even educate Penny because once he becomes successful in teaching Penny (who he so compared to an ape in that episode, something I find highly offensive Dr Cooper) then he would brag about it and even say he was able to share his knowledge to the "lower beings". They did the shoe app because it would be a hilarious way to end the episode. He was being an ass there, and since he wanted to do an app then de facto he's stuck with her. He's doing it for mere friendship and does not entail anything romantic. He told her to ask any question she wished because, again, he thinks of her as someone who doesn't know much and that he prides himself that he can answer anything she "wants to know" and that he might be able to help her be more "knowledgeable". He mostly go to her for advice when it comes to Amy nowadays because he thinks she knows about ROMANTIC relationships and about WOMEN--something that he regards her of and that something that's sweet of Sheldon since he IS aware he doesn't know much about women.

Oh, and you said it yourself. He thinks of them as monkeys, and with Penny's lack of a PhD or a Master's Degree or even the lack of College Education, he thinks lowly of her compared to his friends when it comes to intelligence. That's the Sheldor Egomaniac I know.

[BangerMain]

Very true DPK, Penny cares much more about Leonard's opinion of her, because deep down inside her and even when she tries to hide and deny it, she seeks for his approval.

Sheldon is just a pompous nut to her, so she just brushes off all his insults, she doesn't really care about his opinion.

That is a key point that you stated. Especially this season, Penny quietly seeks Leonard's approval. It's the reason she is going back to school.

Penny has been shown to be pretty bad at everything she does. This season they even have shown as a cook she can't even boil water. She has proclaimed that she is a terrible waitress after all these years at the Cheesecake Factory. And as Amy told her, the acting career has gone south like Sherman. The only success that Penny has, now, is Leonard.. She holds on to him with sex, but she most likely thinks that could never be permanent (though Leonard passed her "go slow" no sex test in season 5). She does not want to let go of him but knows she has to have some other attachment to keep him. The writers are slowly eliminating all of Penny's options except for Leonard. Sheldon is not one of them, they are making that plain.

After being in control for so long in their relationship she is finally seeing that that time maybe coming to an end if Leonard starts wanting a truly equal partner and in her current state she has a lot of work to do to get there.

Edited November 12, 2012 by BangerMain

[Pomita]

Just remember two weeks ago, how much he needed SH's approval and friendship, and just this last episode, the "almighty" Sheldon Cooper fearing the "unique mix of saint and squirrel" that Amy Farrah Fowler is, would leave him because "she deserves better"

"SHE DESERVES BETTER"! Coming from Sheldon's mouth, now, that's what I call love.

True. That was definitely his unconscious wisdom speaking.. sometimes that tends to come out with alcohol.

Penny has been shown to be pretty bad at everything she does. This season they even have shown as a cook she can't even boil water. She has proclaimed that she is a terrible waitress after all these years at the Cheesecake Factory. And as Amy told her, the acting career has gone south like Sherman. The only success that Penny has, now, is Leonard.. She holds on to him with sex, but she most likely thinks that could never be permanent (though Leonard passed her "go slow" no sex test in season 5). She does not want to let go of him but knows she has to have some other attachment to keep him. The writers are slowly eliminating all of Penny's options except for Leonard. Sheldon is not one of them, they are making that plain.

This sounds sad, when put in so many words. While your assessment is correct, I'm actually hoping they eventually let Penny's life be about more than just waffling over Leonard. Maybe we should give her the benefit of the doubt and assume that her idea of a college course came from a desire for self-improvement as well, and not just insecurities related to Leonard.

[annieogly]

Where in this season is your evidence that Penny wishes Leonard's good opinion? From the first episode she wished to dump him and this new boring kind of love.. And she was a bad waitress and unemployed, non-graduate then. But Sheldon, Bernadette, Amy all advised and pressured her not to. She also said that it was Leonard's job as her boyfriend to make her happy; which her girlfriends Bernadette and Amy again told her that this attitude was wrong. So so far your analysis is unsupported as I am supporting mine with proof from the show.

The writers have set it up that this time Penny will be dumped or some misunderstanding will occur; ergo we have Alex or someone else. As for Amy; she does deserve better than Sheldon as a boyfriend as so far he has shown: 1) he'd rather outsource his anniversary night than spend it alone with Amy 2) that he prefers dining with Wil Wheaton than his girlfriend Amy 3) he has resisted all Amy's sexual suggestions and advances.

[Europa]

Where in this season is your evidence that Penny wishes Leonard's good opinion? From the first episode she wished to dump him and this new boring kind of love.. And she was a bad waitress and unemployed, non-graduate then. But Sheldon, Bernadette, Amy all advised and pressured her not to. She also said that it was Leonard's job as her boyfriend to make her happy; which her girlfriends Bernadette and Amy again told her that this attitude was wrong. So so far your analysis is unsupported as I am supporting mine with proof from the show.

The writers have set it up that this time Penny will be dumped or some misunderstanding will occur; ergo we have Alex or someone else. As for Amy; she does deserve better than Sheldon as a boyfriend as so far he has shown: 1) he'd rather outsource his anniversary night than spend it alone with Amy 2) that he prefers dining with Wil Wheaton than his girlfriend Amy 3) he has resisted all Amy's sexual suggestions and advances.

It's funny how the same scenes can be seen with such different perspectives.

The way I see it, Penny has come to realize a number of important things - that this new "boring" kind of love is simply different from the lust-driven relationships she has always had; that Leonard's job is not simply to please her while she does nothing for the relationship; that Leonard's intelligence, which has always somewhat intimidated her, is actually pretty cool, and his job, which she never understood, is really interesting; and the attention of another woman hit home for her that she really does not want to see Leonard with another woman. All signs that she does love Leonard and has begun to appreciate him on a new and deeper level than before.

As for Sheldon, his response to Amy's anger at the anniversary dinner was to offer her a heartfelt description of his feelings (although I realize that this being a quote, is debatable in its intentions, that's how I saw it); and his desire to beat up Wil Wheaton because he disrespected his girlfriend indicates that he does have feelings for Amy.

[sarah7]

Where in this season is your evidence that Penny wishes Leonard's good opinion? From the first episode she wished to dump him and this new boring kind of love.. And she was a bad waitress and unemployed, non-graduate then. But Sheldon, Bernadette, Amy all advised and pressured her not to. She also said that it was Leonard's job as her boyfriend to make her happy; which her girlfriends Bernadette and Amy again told her that this attitude was wrong. So so far your analysis is unsupported as I am supporting mine with proof from the show.

The writers have set it up that this time Penny will be dumped or some misunderstanding will occur; ergo we have Alex or someone else. As for Amy; she does deserve better than Sheldon as a boyfriend as so far he has shown: 1) he'd rather outsource his anniversary night than spend it alone with Amy 2) that he prefers dining with Wil Wheaton than his girlfriend Amy 3) he has resisted all Amy's sexual suggestions and advances.

I'm all for Penny wanting to improve because of herself, and not just in behalf of Leonard, in fact, what HeWolf wrote in a previous post suggesting Penny wants to go back to college because of Leonard, reminds me very much a constant premise in the fics your correligionares write, where Penny decides to improve herself inspired by and/or following a suggestion from Sheldon (thus, proving he really "loves her and not only sees her as a sex-toy").

While is not clear at all that Leonard had any kind of effect in Penny's decision to go back to college, what has been evidenced many times in the show, is that she really worries about the opinion he has of her, she is worried about him thinking of her as "just a waitress", that's undeniable.

I honestly don't know (and, sorry, don't really care ) about where the L/P relationship is heading, and, while I insist that sometime in the future there will be breakup of sorts for them (my bet is when we are approaching the end of the series), I also agree with those who say it won't happen right now or not too soon.

And regarding Sheldon and Amy, I'm amazed that you are fixating in the problems that originate the conflicts and are completely ignoring the developments the relationship has.

Yeah, Sheldon was a jerk at their anniversary date, but, as Europa said, he panicked at the idea of Amy leaving him and told her a quote that, being an enterely romantic one and approppriate for the situation, I don't think ends up being that ambiguous

He was also clueless at her anger and "teamed up with the enemy" in this last episode, but at the end, he realized she was much more important for him than his childhood hero, and was even willing to fight with him "to defend her honor", the same man who is afraid to go out his apartment at night, heck, at this moment, Amy probably means much more for him than Star Trek!

He is all the time commiting mistakes, but at the same time, he is making efforts in order to make her happy, he agrees to hold her hand just because she wants to, overlooks her disdain of the things he loves, buys her gifts as an attempt to ammend things with her, he agrees to compromise and even wear a ridiculous red wig in order to make her happy, the man that never wants to let others have their way.

She is the only one who has made him realize and verbalize he is not "the best", he knows and accepts she deserves better, thing is: He wants to be better, for her, because he doesn't want to lose her. If we pay attention, this goes along well with the Spiderman quote, "He knows the man he wants to be"..... he wants to be a man worthy of her?

Now tell me, if he doesn't really want to be with her or has no feelings for her, why all the effort?, why not to take the first opportunity and break up?

.....and regarding sex and physical affection, well, despite being so vocal about it, Amy doesn't seems to put too much leverage to that aspect at the moment of deciding the continuity of their relationship, she hadn't said: "bed me, or we are done" yet. She seems to be patient, remember she has a five year plan!

And don't worry, I'm sure Sheldon won't be rejecting her advances forever!

Edited November 13, 2012 by sarah7

[rickfromillinois]

Penny did say that Leonard's job was to keep her happy, thati much is true. But let's not forget the rest of the episode. You know, where went to his lab and after seeing what he did there and listening to him she couldn't keep her hands off of him. To fixate on one part of what she said without taking into account what else has happened is only telling half of the story. This season the writers have shown Penny growing closer to Leonard, not further away.

[DPK]

annieogly, on 11 November 2012 - 08:59 PM, said:

DPK: it just means it pisses her off more as Leonard understands her insecurity because he is insecure. He's repeatedly shown and says he's not confident. So it's actually meaner on his part to behave as he does. Sheldon at least supports her with Pennyblossoms, tried to teach her Physics, they did the shoe app, told her to ask him as many questions as she wished. He's confident and goes to her for advice as he knows she has a superior understanding of social interactions. Frankly everyone is a monkey to Sheldon and he tells them in no uncertain terms how dim they all are. Penny, Leonard, Raj and Wollowitz are equal in that group. As for the future; we'll see..,

How are those him supporting her? Of course he's doing it because he's a show-off and that he wanted to prove he is more superior to Penny or anyone for that matter. He helped her with Penny Blossoms because he thinks that it's the only thing that Penny could achieve to be more successful. He thought her Physics because he's willing to show off how much he knows of the topic and maybe even educate Penny because once he becomes successful in teaching Penny (who he so compared to an ape in that episode, something I find highly offensive Dr Cooper) then he would brag about it and even say he was able to share his knowledge to the "lower beings". They did the shoe app because it would be a hilarious way to end the episode. He was being an ass there, and since he wanted to do an app then de facto he's stuck with her. He's doing it for mere friendship and does not entail anything romantic. He told her to ask any question she wished because, again, he thinks of her as someone who doesn't know much and that he prides himself that he can answer anything she "wants to know" and that he might be able to help her be more "knowledgeable". He mostly go to her for advice when it comes to Amy nowadays because he thinks she knows about ROMANTIC relationships and about WOMEN--something that he regards her of and that something that's sweet of Sheldon since he IS aware he doesn't know much about women.

Oh, and you said it yourself. He thinks of them as monkeys, and with Penny's lack of a PhD or a Master's Degree or even the lack of College Education, he thinks lowly of her compared to his friends when it comes to intelligence. That's the Sheldor Egomaniac I know.

Exactly. Non of those situations were altruistic on Sheldon's part nor had anyting to do with Penny valuing Sheldon's opionion of her personally. Especially her first attempt to learn what Leonard did, Penny asking for Sheldon's help with understanding physics had absolutely nothing to do with valuing Sheldon's opinion of her and everything to do with wanting to be able to understand what Leonard does so that she could talk to him about it because when she saw Bernadette take interest(even though she was dating Howard)in his work and was able to actually talk to him about it, it stired jealousy in Penny. She just made the horrid mistake of asking the one person she probably shouldn't have to try and teach her some things.

Edited November 13, 2012 by DPK

[rickfromillinois]

As for Leonard's so-called lack of self confidence, one of the on going undercurrents of the show is Leonard's growing self confidence. He is not the same person now that he was in season 1. Neither is Penny for that matter. To take some statement that he made 5 years ago in reference to his self-confidence without taking in consideration of how he acts now is meaningless. On a singular note, to mention Penny saying that she is bored with her relationship with Leonard and saying that Leonard's job is to make her happy without taking into account her reaction to Leonard when he demonstrated to her what he does for a living is asinine.

[koops]

I find it funny that the whole Shenny thing did not even remotely cross my mind until I started reading up about it online. I just do not see it in any way, shape or form. They work great as friends because they're such polar opposites that makes them hilarious to watch interact, but I do not see any sort of romantic, let alone sexual, tension or chemistry between these two. And I think the writers never even attempted to ever hint at anything like that.

Plus, Penny is Leonard's love of his life! She was written that way from the beginning. Why on earth would his best friend take her away from him, even if he wasn't as "Sheldon" as Sheldon is and just a regular guy? And Amy adores Penny, she is the first girlfriend who ever accepted her for what she is, can you imagine what Penny taking Sheldon from her would to to this poor girl? It would just turn both Penny and Sheldon into the most despicable beings ever on the show. I don't understand why someone would want to see that. In a sitcom of all places.

I think with good writing you can make anything work, but it would take like... another 12 seasons of groundwork to make this even remotely plausible without destroying the characters and everything they stand for.

Edited November 15, 2012 by spook

[Superlovelexi]

I'm just going to quote it because its the most epic LENNY quote of all time and I think it puts the official nail in the coffin to all Shennydom!!! LOL Penny to Leonard:

“Listen to me, you are the one I’m with. You know I love you so will you please relax because you’re driving me crazy." I have never thought of Sheldon and Penny would turn out to be anything more than friends from day one. And last week when Sheldon said in the bar scene that he likes her after he also said that he liked Wil Wheaton and Amy, a bunch of Shenny shippers were all giddy about Penny kissing SHeldon after the wrestling scene and then again last week when Sheldon said I LIKE YOU to Penny in the bar well Penny just told Leonard I LOVE YOU!!! LOL All hopes that Shenny fans have that Penny is secretly harboring feelings for Sheldon just got PUT DOWN!!! Sorry I know I shouldn't gloat this much, but hey its time Shenny shippers get a clue! Stop sending me comments on youtube about SHAMY AND LENNY FTW!! END OF STORY!!!

Edited November 16, 2012 by Superlovelexi

[Superlovelexi]

Also if any Shamy or Lenny fans rewatches this video

of Amy and Penny kissing you'll see where a bunch of Shenny shippers jumped on me for defending them. I'm Lexi Love on youtube btw

Edited November 16, 2012 by Superlovelexi

[annieogly]

I thought tonight's episode was classic. I enjoyed everything about it. The Penny-Leonard dynamic was fun, indeed hearkening back to seasons 1-3 as someone said. But if you think this is going to end happily...all I can say is hold the good thought.

I think now I know what they are making Penny look so slovenly/unattractive as Alex just popped and looked younger and prettier than Penny.

[koops]

I thought tonight's episode was classic. I enjoyed everything about it. The Penny-Leonard dynamic was fun, indeed hearkening back to seasons 1-3 as someone said. But if you think this is going to end happily...all I can say is hold the good thought.

I think now I know what they are making Penny look so slovenly/unattractive as Alex just popped and looked younger and prettier than Penny.

I REALLY hope that's not what they're trying to do. To have Leonard be so shallow as to go after Alex because she looks younger and prettier is so out of character.

[Superlovelexi]

I don't think that will happen based on Leonard's reaction to Alex's text message he doesn't even get that she likes him at all and even if she out right told Leonard how she feels or tried to kiss him or something, Leonard would still want Penny especially after Penny finally said I love you to him. Leonard wouldn't want to do anything to make Penny break up with him. And I think Penny is still pretty and she looked really hot in the Halloween slutty cop outfit. Alex reminds me of that one blond hot chick that moved upstairs and all guys fond all over her because she was a new pretty chick (well all except Sheldon of course) But Penny kicked that girl's ass so Alex better be careful cause if she goes after Leonard too hard and Penny finds out, she will get a beat down and Amy and Bernadette will probably help her push Alex down the stairs or get sheldon to fire her. I hope they make Alex see that Leonard is too in love with Penny to ever leave or cheat on her so instead Alex should set her sights on Raj who is actually single.

[rickfromillinois]

Since Penny was facing the Sheldon's apartment when she said that she was obviously really thinking of Sheldon......... and if she wasn't, Leonard is surely going to cheat on her with Alex so that Penny will go looking for someone who would never cheat on her and hook up with her true love, Sheldon...... and when they get married a herd of pigs will fly overhead.

[Europa]

The Penny-Leonard dynamic was fun, indeed hearkening back to seasons 1-3 as someone said. But if you think this is going to end happily...all I can say is hold the good thought.

So even Penny telling Leonard she loves him isn't enough to sink the Penny/Sheldon ship, eh?

Leonard is not going to dump Penny for Sheldon's assistant. He's been in love with Penny for years and finally had his feelings validated and returned to him. At this point Alex is going to have to literally throw herself at him, which I won't put past her, but he's just. not. interested. in anyone but Penny.

[4ofN]

So, how would this be for you Shenny shippers?

Sheldon realizes that he finally wants to get physical with Amy, but realizes that he doesn't know what to do so he asks Penny for advice.

Penny tries to explain, but Sheldon just doesn't get it, so Penny suggests that she show him and they head off to the bedroom.

When they come out of the bedroom (Sheldon with a big dumb smile on his face), Amy is there wondering what is going on.

After Penny explains, Amy is all happy and asks Penny to teach her too, so the three of them head back to the bedroom.

That should keep everyone happy - The Shenny shippers, the people who want Amy and Sheldon to finally have sex, and the people who seem to think that the show needs more sexual inuendo. Amy's longing to have sex with Penny would finally be realized.

This would be a ratings bonanza.

[HeWolf]

But if you think this is going to end happily...all I can say is hold the good thought.

I think now I know what they are making Penny look so slovenly/unattractive as Alex just popped and looked younger and prettier than Penny.

And this just in: Obama Cancels All Taxes For Americans!

We all have our dream...

[phantagrae]

I thought tonight's episode was classic. I enjoyed everything about it. The Penny-Leonard dynamic was fun, indeed hearkening back to seasons 1-3 as someone said. But if you think this is going to end happily...all I can say is hold the good thought.

I think now I know what they are making Penny look so slovenly/unattractive as Alex just popped and looked younger and prettier than Penny.

Delusion, thy name is shenny...

[annieogly]

Since they've made such a big deal of both Penny and Leonard's insecurities and brought in a new person, Alex, who is clearly there for a reason. I assume it's to introduce conflict.

I can easily propose a scenario where Penny sees a clueless Leonard & Alex, get jealous (she was egged on previously by Amy), drinks too much & who knows what. Sleeps with someone else ( I'd love Wil Wheaton) & Leonard dumps her. Or She gets a job/close to another male and Leonard doesn't trust her etc...It's dead easy. This doesn't mean they won't eventually get back together next year or in 2 years. I enjoy the show for the show, not the ship. Fanfiction is where I go to get the sweet romance of the Shenny ship I enjoy. If it happens on the show fine; if not fine, as long it stays the nerdy funny show I first bought into.