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Alex7

Bernadette crap...

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I just finished watching the 12th episode from season 5 and i gatta say, it's the first time i dislike a character from the show...

I understand what they are trying to do, i know they have to be politically correct and hide a true feminist spirit underneath one of the characters because they have to approach the subject but this was not ok.... Hating children???? Children are a waste of life?? What the hell is that? Since when did children and family values in general become the evil of society??

And furthermore, (since i've opend up the subject) i'm really sick of these politically correct episodes..I can't see a sitcom or a cartoon without these black,gay,republican,feminist, "lesson of life" episodes...

I have no problem with anyone but i swear, ever since this wave of ballshit i'am really starting to..

Do u guys (in case anyone is watching) really think anybody really gives a dry piece of shit what your social political opinions are??

Is it hollywood's oppinion that everybody is retarded and they are educating the masses??? I'd like to see that moron who takes life lessons from tv shows,and sitcoms no less... Maybe they think that these kinda subjects are shocking.... Well i got news for them: THIS IS NOT THE 90's...these subjects are so overly discussed they bore everybody to death.... how about shocking us with a show that just entertains...you know maybe doing for the first time in a long time what a sitcom should do, you know, just make us laugh instead of patronising us.

That would be a nice change...

God what i wouldn't give for Seinfeld to start again...

Sorry for this thread but i'am just so sick of this....

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I kind of agree with lots of this. I can't stand all the stuff trying to not upset people on all these shows. They have to make Howard the stay at home as to not upset women really.... it's stupid to me. Its like going to get a job and being more qualified but they give it to a minority because they feel like they would upset someone if they didnt. I didn't care for her being a bitch to the kids and pushing Howard to stay home and bashing family life like that. I really hope they end up breaking up now because of it.

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To me it doesn't make sense at all. When Howard first met Bernadette she was really kind, and in a sense, cute. Though in this Episode 13 of Season 5 was a let down. Bernadette has suddenly married Howard not mentioning any hatred for children, and has actually turned out a lot like Howard (not understanding peoples feelings), for example how she says she will work and Howard will stay home because of HER hatred towards children. Bernadette's character has changed dramatically, with hardly any factors proving that it is a reliable change in character.

I think it was one of my biggest let downs so far in the TV series. I actually made an account on here just to share my opinion about this.

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I know what u mean Fiction315,leaving aside the psychological reasons that basically makes her a bad person Wolowitz is for all intents and purposes a genius (Sheldon's opinion aside)... Her thinking is that he should just quit e everything he's doing and be a stay home dad because she has to "live her life" pursuing the glorious career of a cheese cake factory waitress...

Society can go without a minds like Wolowitz but taking a plate to your table...that's what society needs more, that's a real genius;).

From somebody who raised my brother and sisters (in real life not in fiction) can't for the life of me understand how does that make u hate children.... Since when doing good things for your family for a change constitutes a burden?

I've seen people like me make great families like i'am about to make but i have to tell u...i've seen the children of people like Bernadette and they hate their parent... You really think children can't sence a parent's resentment?? You really think they don't feel when they are not loved and all they are is an obstacle in the way her/him having fun and "living her/his life"?

Children are not an accessory and if you're not ready to commit, to give your all, out of love not out of obligation than you shouldn't have them.

They will turn out hating u and that won't make them ungrateful....i'll just make u a horrible attempt of a parent...

Ironically these are the people who later bitch and complain that nobody gives a shit about them and they leave nothing behind....

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Her thinking is that he should just quit e everything he's doing and be a stay home dad because she has to "live her life" pursuing the glorious career of a cheese cake factory waitress...

Society can go without a minds like Wolowitz but taking a plate to your table...that's what society needs more, that's a real genius;).

Actually, as of the Season 4 finale, Bernadette works for a pharmaceutical company. She was only working at the Cheesecake Factory to get herself through grad school. That's why she suggested that Howard stay at home with the kids because she makes more money than he does. That aside though, I don't understand why since she now makes a "buttload of money" (using her words), they can't plan to hire a nanny or something. I was disappointed in how easily Howard folded at the end of the episode. Howard has his own career and dreams like going into outer space, and I for one think it unfair that he would have to compromise his plans just to make Bernadette happy. Even if he did go on his expedition before they had kids, what if he had another exciting opportunity? Would he so easily give it up? IMO, Bernadette and Howard should negotiate some kind of give and take, since they both value their careers. Of course, they always have the option of having kids later on in the marriage when they're ready, it just depends on how long Howard (and his mom) are willing to wait.

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My wife and I just watched this episode and loved it! Perhaps my favourite of season 5 so far...

This seed of doubt in their relationship, over children, makes Bernadette more interesting too IMHO. A lot of her appeal to me, is that she in one respect is very petite and sweet, yet she is also quite volatile and the connections with Howard's mum in Howard's choice for a mate is good comedy.

Alex, I hate the stuff you mention too, but cannot see it in this instance - I think if the show were going to go all 'pc', they would be much more direct doing so. In fact to the show's credit, it makes a regular habit of saying many non politically gags, which is a part of the shows appeal I believe.

Matt

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I don't understand. It's wrong of B to ask H to be a stay at home dad and quit his job. But it's OK for him to ask her to do that? She has a good job that pays more.... he's the one that wants kids bad... he would be good at it. Why couldn't he take off for a couple years? What about her accomplishments and possible opportunities?

Oh that's right, because that is what a woman is "Supposed to do", right? It's all about his opportunities, forget hers.

Not that I'm on her side, but why can't there be a compromise? She could birth the baby and take off the first year; go back to work and he could take off for awhile. Or like the other person said, hire a nanny. It would be cool since they both make enough, that they both could take off awhile with each other.

Maybe taking off isn't the best for their career, but having kids means sacrifices right? Easy for Howard to want kids as his career and interests are expected to go on fine; but when you are a mom you are expected to give up everything and be nothing more than someone's mom... I don't think it's fair to say Bernadette is bad for asking Howard to stay at home, but if Howard asks her to stay at home its no big deal.

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First of all yes, i haven't followed her career that much because i wasn;t intrested and she may make a lot of money but money was never an issue for them, in my oppinion if she does it was just forced into the show so they can do the boring "Wow what if we reverse family roles, what will he say and do then" and as i said it was shocking in the 90's but i'am kinda sick of this now.

Don't turn this into a gender thing PBJ cuz this it's not the point...

The point is that a mom is the woman not the man or the dog or the nanny.

I'am sure u have a different opinion about family values but your mother was there for u and loved u and cared for u...

It's easy for u to say this now after all is done but if the situation was diferent in your family you'd never say that.

Nobody and i mean NOBODY that had a mother who was never there because she was "living her life" and thot children were obstacles in the way of her fun loves or even cares if that so called mother lives or dies tomorrow.

I'am not misogynistic i'am just telling u what i saw, every single person in that situation i've meet (and i've meet a lot of people like that because of my job) hates their parent because of that.....

No matter what your oppinion is about children they are not idiots and they are even more sensitive to this kinda of things and sence it right away..

In such a situation i blame Wolowitz for not providing the best family environment by choosing such a failed attempt of a mother...

Wait a minute, she doesn't even care enough to attempt to be a mother, she just wants to live her life...

This is the kinda of person u see on tv locking the children in a closet cuz they get in the way of her happines while she's home alone with them and that's not ok...

It's pretty hard to understand sometimes that the only living thing on the earth (who is considerd the most evolved) the human and especially the woman who we look up to when she's our mother and expect love, understanding, compasion can be so disgusting and savage....

Actually not savage at all, you don't ever see an savage animal pushing her children away with her foot because she wants to keep having fun...

You only see that in a human "mother"...

I've always said that they should give out a license to have children and people like her would be one of those who'd never get one.

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Well then maybe someone like her would be better of not parenting? I would think they should discuss further before getting married. Howard said it was a deal-breaker... if he's not gung-ho on staying home, but she doesn't want to, perhaps they should break up?

But, can moms only be loving if they stay home? I know a lot of women who go back to work, a lot because the HAVE to, and they don't love their children any less because of it, nor do they treat their children poorly. I don't see why they can't both stay home on and off, I mean once the kid is in school they can both work. Also Howards mom could help (errr maybe, let's ignore the fact that most people may not want her to, I don't know. If you'd marry and have babies with Howard obviously you are on board with his mother, to a point). I don't necessarily think that Bernadette would be mean and lock her kids in a closet or abuse them... I think she does have a heart. Who knows what would happen if she did, but this being Big Bang Theory I highly doubt it will go that far. I think they just needed some sort of storyline, and this was their attempt at some humor.

It is a comedy. I would hope that we don't have to see marriages and family on a show like BBT anyway, I really prefer the light-hearted humor and such. I hope they don't plan to follow this storyline anymore... I wonder if it will come back up.

I hope Howard manages to cut his own meat and pancakes one day. I would not want to have kids with him if he requires so much maintenance, LOL.

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Well then maybe someone like her would be better of not parenting? I would think they should discuss further before getting married. Howard said it was a deal-breaker... if he's not gung-ho on staying home, but she doesn't want to, perhaps they should break up?

But, can moms only be loving if they stay home? I know a lot of women who go back to work, a lot because the HAVE to, and they don't love their children any less because of it, nor do they treat their children poorly. I don't see why they can't both stay home on and off, I mean once the kid is in school they can both work. Also Howards mom could help (errr maybe, let's ignore the fact that most people may not want her to, I don't know. If you'd marry and have babies with Howard obviously you are on board with his mother, to a point). I don't necessarily think that Bernadette would be mean and lock her kids in a closet or abuse them... I think she does have a heart. Who knows what would happen if she did, but this being Big Bang Theory I highly doubt it will go that far. I think they just needed some sort of storyline, and this was their attempt at some humor.

It is a comedy. I would hope that we don't have to see marriages and family on a show like BBT anyway, I really prefer the light-hearted humor and such. I hope they don't plan to follow this storyline anymore... I wonder if it will come back up.

I hope Howard manages to cut his own meat and pancakes one day. I would not want to have kids with him if he requires so much maintenance, LOL.

I agree, someone like her would be better of not parenting, and that would be a good thing especially for the children.

He should just brake up move on if he wants a familly..

The point was not the just the work thing, the problem it's her whole attitude vis-a vis children, she hates them, she doesn't want them, she thinks they are obstacles in the way of her happiness and that's just the perfect recipe for an abusive parent believe me...

In my oppinion it's his obligation obligation towards his future children to chose a real mother who will love them and care for them and not leave emotional scars (or any other kind) on them.

Obviously he has to love/like her but as far as a family goes....having children with her is putting them in harms way...

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Yeah I do see what you mean - they both should not be compromising on something like this, because NO one will come out happy, and it's all on the kids too.

They both should realize what they need in order to be happy, and if their ideas do not work together, then to me that should be a dealbreaker, when it comes to kids you can't really compromise. He can hope she comes around, but to me that is quite risky, and vice versa.

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Yeah I do see what you mean - they both should not be compromising on something like this, because NO one will come out happy, and it's all on the kids too.

They both should realize what they need in order to be happy, and if their ideas do not work together, then to me that should be a dealbreaker, when it comes to kids you can't really compromise. He can hope she comes around, but to me that is quite risky, and vice versa.

I agree 100%, you can never compromise with the lives of your children.

And ya....you can't risk it since people like that will never really change..

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And she seemed to have a crappy childhood (the joke about being short cause her mother smoked pot comes to mind as well) so sometimes when those that have a crappy childhood may not make a good parent either, and it's good to recognize that and not have kids, instead of bowing to pressure to have kids because you are supposed to. But poor Howard though, he seems to be happy with her. It seems like they should have discussed it before getting engaged.

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And she seemed to have a crappy childhood (the joke about being short cause her mother smoked pot comes to mind as well) so sometimes when those that have a crappy childhood may not make a good parent either, and it's good to recognize that and not have kids, instead of bowing to pressure to have kids because you are supposed to. But poor Howard though, he seems to be happy with her. It seems like they should have discussed it before getting engaged.

I agree, they should had discussed this before marriage and it doesn't make sence that they didn't..

Here i disagree with u, most people who have a bad childhood do everything in their power to not repete history and give their kids all the things they never had including love and affection.

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Well true, but I mean if she thought she didn't have it in her to parent she shouldn't give in, I didn't mean to say all of them are that way I was just meaning her... and sometimes people might be better off not having them if they can't make that change. But it seems like something has stuck with her that she doesn't have it in her.

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I don't understand. It's wrong of B to ask H to be a stay at home dad and quit his job. But it's OK for him to ask her to do that? She has a good job that pays more.... he's the one that wants kids bad... he would be good at it. Why couldn't he take off for a couple years? What about her accomplishments and possible opportunities?

Oh that's right, because that is what a woman is "Supposed to do", right? It's all about his opportunities, forget hers.

Not that I'm on her side, but why can't there be a compromise? She could birth the baby and take off the first year; go back to work and he could take off for awhile. Or like the other person said, hire a nanny. It would be cool since they both make enough, that they both could take off awhile with each other.

Maybe taking off isn't the best for their career, but having kids means sacrifices right? Easy for Howard to want kids as his career and interests are expected to go on fine; but when you are a mom you are expected to give up everything and be nothing more than someone's mom... I don't think it's fair to say Bernadette is bad for asking Howard to stay at home, but if Howard asks her to stay at home its no big deal.

That is the exact thing I am arguing. It is an over the top subject that should have been left alone and not brought up. For this exact reason. People get offended by it in either direction. Its cliche now for the women to be super feminist and the man to stay home and it is un feminist now to be the stay at home mom. On the flip side of that though women would get upset that she would have to stay home. Even though if it wasn't a controversy in the show (meaning b liked kids and was ok staying home) noone would be talking about this. Its poor writing on my opinion for cheap drama in a comedy show. I think also that we are arguing the fact that they made it seem like having a family is bad. Idk the episode was funny but it was a little to over the top in my opinion. They should have left the subject alone. The same people claiming that we are bringing this up are the same people that cry racism or favoritism and that is what will kill this world. You can't say anything any more without offending someone.

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Well true, but I mean if she thought she didn't have it in her to parent she shouldn't give in, I didn't mean to say all of them are that way I was just meaning her... and sometimes people might be better off not having them if they can't make that change. But it seems like something has stuck with her that she doesn't have it in her.

You're right, she shouldn't give in if she she doesn't have it in her..

Fiction

They can't leave it alone because demonizing family values and mocking any kind religion is the cool thing right now apparently...

It takes real imagination and talent to come up with complex ideas, taking cheap shots on these kinda things it's a lot easier than a writing complex dialog and storyline, this way people will focus on these things rather on the lack of ideas and imagination.....

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NO kidding. I know a lot of people want the show to stay away from the romance and go back to the science. I do have to agree; I don't mind a little with the girls/relationships, but keep the bulk of the shows and the main storylines light, and humourous, IMO it seems to be the preference.

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I don't agree with political correctness. You can not please everybody

I also don't see anything wrong with Bernadette saying she does want children but it should either be she doesn't want them at all or she's just afraid that having them will suddenly mean her own life (outside of parenting) is no longer important. The being afraid can be worked through with each of them understanding, that both parents can a life and be parents. There are plenty of people who just know they never want children and they usually have to find a partner that has the same feelings because if not then one of the two in the relationship is always going to be unhappy which will end up making everyone unhappy.

I think it was ok for Bernadette be bring up the subject of Howard staying home, but you (the audience) could tell he didn’t like that idea. He should have stood up for himself and said "my career is important to me too." I like what someone suggested earlier, they should hire a nanny if they want children. With both of them making money (because they both make a good amount of money) it would be easy to pay for one and they could both keep their careers. But the children would still be lacking in a relationship with their parents in any situation of this topic.

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That is a good point - it wasn't wrong of her to ask because in her mind, he's really wanting to parent, not just have the baby then go, but he seems to want to be really involved - so she didn't see what we say, therefore she probably thinks he's fine with it. Especially since he did agree - so it's on him to be honest with her about it now.

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I don't agree with political correctness. You can not please everybody

I also don't see anything wrong with Bernadette saying she does want children but it should either be she doesn't want them at all or she's just afraid that having them will suddenly mean her own life (outside of parenting) is no longer important. The being afraid can be worked through with each of them understanding, that both parents can a life and be parents. There are plenty of people who just know they never want children and they usually have to find a partner that has the same feelings because if not then one of the two in the relationship is always going to be unhappy which will end up making everyone unhappy.

I think it was ok for Bernadette be bring up the subject of Howard staying home, but you (the audience) could tell he didn’t like that idea. He should have stood up for himself and said "my career is important to me too." I like what someone suggested earlier, they should hire a nanny if they want children. With both of them making money (because they both make a good amount of money) it would be easy to pay for one and they could both keep their careers. But the children would still be lacking in a relationship with their parents in any situation of this topic.

You guys are not reading my posts and not even paying attention to the show...

I'am gonna try to make myself more clear..

IT'S NOT JUST THAT SHE DOESN'T WANT CHILDREN IT'S THAT SHE HATES THEM!!!!!! SHE THINKS THAT THEY ARE DISGUSTING AND REPULSIVE AND AN OBSTACLE IN THE WAY OF HER HAPPINES!!!

How much more clearer do i need to get Aviodingtherealworld and Fiction315???? This is not a gender or "head of the family issue"...

If you're gonna post in my thread please have the common sense to read the posts...

Of course there are other factors that make that episode a bad idea like him being an freakin genious and the responsibility that he has towards his children not to put them in harms way but all of these have been discussed if you'd bothered to read the posts and understand what we are taking about before you start posting...

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You guys are not reading my posts and not even paying attention to the show...

I'am gonna try to make myself more clear..

IT'S NOT JUST THAT SHE DOESN'T WANT CHILDREN IT'S THAT SHE HATES THEM!!!!!! SHE THINKS THAT THEY ARE DISGUSTING AND REPULSIVE AND AN OBSTACLE IN THE WAY OF HER HAPPINES!!!

How much more clearer do i need to get Aviodingtherealworld and Fiction315???? This is not a gender or "head of the family issue"...

If you're gonna post in my thread please have the common sense to read the posts...

Of course there are other factors that make that episode a bad idea like him being an freakin genious and the responsibility that he has towards his children not to put them in harms way but all of these have been discussed if you'd bothered to read the posts and understand what we are taking about before you start posting...

Believe it or not there are people in the world who think the same about children. Its something about the early years of children touching everything and putting everything in their mouth and all the questions that those people can not stand. Also people tend to say they hate things when they really mean they just really really dislike them. Most likely she does not know how to deal with children or does not have the patients which means in turn means children do not like her which makes her dislike them even more.

People are allowed to hate children and put their happiness above having children, which is why those people tend to not have children or fulfill their dreams before having them

P.S. I did read the post. What I got from yours was a question about political correctness in tv shows and then I added my thoughts to what I got from the posts others left. Do not attack people because you didn't get the exact answer you were looking for or because people didn't agree with your thought, come back and reword the point you were trying to make and maybe the thread will head in the direction you were looking for.

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You guys are not reading my posts and not even paying attention to the show...

I'am gonna try to make myself more clear..

IT'S NOT JUST THAT SHE DOESN'T WANT CHILDREN IT'S THAT SHE HATES THEM!!!!!! SHE THINKS THAT THEY ARE DISGUSTING AND REPULSIVE AND AN OBSTACLE IN THE WAY OF HER HAPPINES!!!

How much more clearer do i need to get Aviodingtherealworld and Fiction315???? This is not a gender or "head of the family issue"...

If you're gonna post in my thread please have the common sense to read the posts...

Of course there are other factors that make that episode a bad idea like him being an freakin genious and the responsibility that he has towards his children not to put them in harms way but all of these have been discussed if you'd bothered to read the posts and understand what we are taking about before you start posting...

Believe it or not there are people in the world who think the same about children. Its something about the early years of children touching everything and putting everything in their mouth and all the questions that those people can not stand. Also people tend to say they hate things when they really mean they just really really dislike them. Most likely she does not know how to deal with children or does not have the patients which means in turn means children do not like her which makes her dislike them even more.

People are allowed to hate children and put their happiness above having children, which is why those people tend to not have children or fulfill their dreams before having them

P.S. I did read the post. What I got from yours was a question about political correctness in tv shows and then I added my thoughts to what I got from the posts others left. Do not attack people because you didn't get the exact answer you were looking for or because people didn't agree with your thought, come back and reword the point you were trying to make and maybe the thread will head in the direction you were looking for.

First of all i don't need for people to agree with me in order to validade my point of view as u claim i do in order to justify your lack of attention.

I posted this thread expecting people to disagree with me because that's what an discussion is all about, an exchange of ideas between two or more individuals.

As for what i wanted to say...do you really mean to tell me that u know what mean by what i say better than i do? Seriously??

Ok, leaving your condescending attitude aside i'll prove that you are if fact not reading the post but you're more like browsing through them...

In my first post i said

it's the first time i dislike a character from the show
and go on and explain my problem with this saying
Hating children???? Children are a waste of life?? What the hell is that? Since when did children and family values in general become the evil of society
That of course means (in case u don't understand) that for the first time they pushed the pc to far and turned her into a character that i dislike because of the hating children...

Then i say

since i've opend up the subject) i'm really sick of these politically correct episodes
which is the "politically correct" part in case you didn't get that....

In the next posts i discuss why i think she is a bad person because of her hate and why i think he should brake up with her for the well-being of his future children....

Then me and PBJ exchange oppinions about this subject and all of a sudden you and fiction pop up with a quote from the beginning of the discussion with him/her ignoring all the conclusions reached by me and him/her to post a point of view that shows that you didn't even watched the episode....

You say that

she's just afraid that having them will suddenly mean her own life
and
Most likely she does not know how to deal with children
when she said that she did take care of children in 2 occasions...

There is no maybe on why she hates them...she said why she hates them...

Do you even watch the show???

Yes people are allowed to hate children, they are also allowed to hate black people and women and so on and so forth, that's not the point, you shouldn't be in a mother position when u hate children just like you shouldn't be appointed by big companies to chose who to hire when you're a racist.

Wolowitz shouldn't put his future children in harm's way by chosing a mother who will hate and possibly leave emotional scars on them for the rest of their life (best case scenario)..

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As for what i wanted to say...do you really mean to tell me that u know what mean by what i say better than i do? Seriously??

Ok, leaving your condescending attitude aside i'll prove that you are if fact not reading the post but you're more like browsing through them...

As of this I said nothing of the sort. I was trying to say: Maybe people on here did not understand what you were trying to discuss, so if they were not discussing what you wanted or it got off topic maybe you needed to reword/restate the topic in a different way. People can not read each other minds and therefore things sometime sound off topic when either the person misread or did not understand the poster's original idea.

And as for a condescending attitude: You're reading that. I have no attitude towards you. That was my response.

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As for what i wanted to say...do you really mean to tell me that u know what mean by what i say better than i do? Seriously??

Ok, leaving your condescending attitude aside i'll prove that you are if fact not reading the post but you're more like browsing through them...

As of this I said nothing of the sort. I was trying to say: Maybe people on here did not understand what you were trying to discuss, so if they were not discussing what you wanted or it got off topic maybe you needed to reword/restate the topic in a different way. People can not read each other minds and therefore things sometime sound off topic when either the person misread or did not understand the poster's original idea.

And as for a condescending attitude: You're reading that. I have no attitude towards you. That was my response.

Look, i'am making 2 points in this thread:

1 Is the fact that in trying to approach the feminist subject they made her into a horrible person (not because she has feminist views but because of her hearted for children) thus creating the first character that i (and probably many others) dislike just so they could be politically correct and begin the first in the long line of boring crap (gay, black,immigrants,children for gay etc), that we had to watch for so many years....

And since running away from so many shows that do that out of lack of imagination or real writers i ended up seeing this one i was really hoping that this one will at least try to be diferent and not just a copy if whatever everybody does......

That is up untill this episode which looks like the triggering episode for the P.C.B.C (politically correct boring crap)...

The disappointment was so great that it opend my frustrations about this kinda boring crap and since the subject was already opened....it made point number 2 by itself..

I'am not trying to pick a fight with u but if that's really your point i'll have to disagree since whatever u understood or not is not shared by any other user.

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