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Alex7

Bernadette crap...

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I thought it was waaay out of character for Bernadette. If they're trying to create a wedge between her and Howard to create a little tension or whatever, there are better ways to do it.

proof suit>

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I thought it was waaay out of character for Bernadette. If they're trying to create a wedge between her and Howard to create a little tension or whatever, there are better ways to do it.

proof suit>

Well they done it now and they can't take it back.....believe me i use to like her more than any female character on the show but now i can't stand the sight of her...

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Hi Alex,

Maybe we have different definitions of feminism across the pond? ( we sure do with things such as irony ;) ) - but she is far from a feminist IMHO. She is like the others in the show; i.e bright with many idiosyncrasies - like the dislike of children...

Perhaps for those (or me if I am the only one lol) you would be so kind to say what you think is 'PC' about her and also what in your view are feminist traits. For the purpose of discussion, it may be of interest what is the same (and what is different) from our respective view points in different English speaking countries :)

For the record; my wife and I made a decision many years back not to have children. We laughed so hard at Bernadette because she hit the nail on the head with many of the reasons LOL. If I amk in the supermarket packing my shopping it is like instant hell when a toddler screams in the queue. I often say some very unkind things to myself like LOL

However, my wife heads a kids autistic unit and is very compassionate (she has to be) - I visit schools as a guitar teacher. I love working with kids and (and people) and helping them. I just don't wish to 'have' klds.

Matt

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Hi Alex,

Maybe we have different definitions of feminism across the pond? ( we sure do with things such as irony ;) ) - but she is far from a feminist IMHO. She is like the others in the show; i.e bright with many idiosyncrasies - like the dislike of children...

Perhaps for those (or me if I am the only one lol) you would be so kind to say what you think is 'PC' about her and also what in your view are feminist traits. For the purpose of discussion, it may be of interest what is the same (and what is different) from our respective view points in different English speaking countries :)

For the record; my wife and I made a decision many years back not to have children. We laughed so hard at Bernadette because she hit the nail on the head with many of the reasons LOL. If I amk in the supermarket packing my shopping it is like instant hell when a toddler screams in the queue. I often say some very unkind things to myself like LOL

However, my wife heads a kids autistic unit and is very compassionate (she has to be) - I visit schools as a guitar teacher. I love working with kids and (and people) and helping them. I just don't wish to 'have' klds.

Matt

Well first of all Matt, the feminist side of her character from my point of view is being forced on her in that episode by saying "You should stay home with the kids because i make more money anyway and i'll go live my life" which was so unlike her since she was suppose to be the cute and kind one.

The side of her that has nothing to do with her character was probably forced on her for p.c reasons because like i said earlier, they are probably starting the wave of boring crap just like in any other show..

Now, i may understand why u both decided u shouldn't have children and a salute the decision since people who have good reasons like quick temper or not enough patience or maybe or just the fact that u may not seem to stand them usualy just show that u (and i say this without trying to insult u or your wife) may not be a fit parent. U may love to play with children but parenting a 24 hour job (i don't think it's a job if it comes natural) a day and your lack of patience at the supermarket is not a good sign...

Now i salute the decision that u shouldn't have children in light of what u told me and even if i don't care to speculate any further it may be that your posible children would be better of not having a parent like u.

However the point was not the fact that she didn't want them and i'am not gonna repeat what i wrote in black bigg letters so ANOBODY (anybody and that includes u too) can see;)

The point is that it's a diference between not wanting them and hating them and having them anyway...

At least one person should try to read the posts so i wouldn't have to repeat everything over and over and over again...

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Hi Alex

Thanks for the explanation; you certainly seem quite impassioned about this topic! Perhaps you should write to Chuck Lorre? (seriously meant)

I agree re the personal parenting comments (to a degree); although I have no doubt it is different if you have your own children to tolerating others' ...

anyway back to Bernadette...

I don't agree with you re the idea of Bernadette being completely passive before this episode. A part of her charm has been that she is very petite and 'seemingly' placid, yet can suddenly 'lose it; (the script writers cleverly have made her more and more like Howard's mum too)

The comedy of Howard perpetually under the thumb of his mum - and then when he does break free, a woman taking her place and bossing him around (him staying at home) is where the show is intending to go with this in my opinion, not a feminist or pc route.

There are so many pc rules broken every show, it seems illogical not to mention inconsistent, that they would (out of nowhere) suddenly 'educate' us with Bernadette. In the U.K the woman working, while the man stays at home with the kids, is a very outdated and cliche example of the feminism of yesteryear. Nowadays, there isn't a set way in this regard and an assortment of circumstances exist from couple to couple.

Lastly, it is a very light hearted comedy. Things are not meant to be taken literally and Bernadette's dislike/hatred of kids is high lighted too for the sake of comedy. It obviously offends you which I am sorry about; but it must be remembered that the show's humour relies on racism jokes at the expense of Raj (and other countries too), the autism of Sheldon, the general boredom of being ordinary and not clever or talented and a plethora of other topics! If we (the viewer) took offense at every, dig there wouldn't be much to enjoy left.

Thanks for the thread though, it is an interesting talking point that I wouldn't have considered.

Matt

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With all the fuss about Bernadette, why is no one mentioning that Howard would make a terrible father as he is now? This is a grown man who expects his mother or wife to bring him breakfast in bed and to butter his bread for him. Is he really going to stay up all night trying to comfort a crying baby? I wouldn't want to have children with him, either.

Of course this is TV Land, where as soon as someone gets pregnant they turn into a mature, responsible adult who loves and is great with kids.

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Tiddles that is an excellent point! I was wondering if it's because most people assume the woman should take on the main parenting role - I feel like society portrays a lot of men as clueless and the women are expected to be the sane ones to give everything up and do all the care-giving while the man just kind of sits there and does whatever.

I would not even date a man like that - can't cut his own meat? Oh boy. So many problems.

You are right, TV land is not realistic land!

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Can I get a "THANK THE LORD!" ?

If TV Land was "realistic" it would be dull, depressing, not funny at all and by no means an escape from day to day reality

I am happy to say that we are not expected to take any "comedy" to seriously...

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Can I get a "THANK THE LORD!" ?

If TV Land was "realistic" it would be dull, depressing, not funny at all and by no means an escape from day to day reality

I am happy to say that we are not expected to take any "comedy" to seriously...

:icon_cool:

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Hi Alex

Thanks for the explanation; you certainly seem quite impassioned about this topic! Perhaps you should write to Chuck Lorre? (seriously meant)

I agree re the personal parenting comments (to a degree); although I have no doubt it is different if you have your own children to tolerating others' ...

anyway back to Bernadette...

I don't agree with you re the idea of Bernadette being completely passive before this episode. A part of her charm has been that she is very petite and 'seemingly' placid, yet can suddenly 'lose it; (the script writers cleverly have made her more and more like Howard's mum too)

The comedy of Howard perpetually under the thumb of his mum - and then when he does break free, a woman taking her place and bossing him around (him staying at home) is where the show is intending to go with this in my opinion, not a feminist or pc route.

There are so many pc rules broken every show, it seems illogical not to mention inconsistent, that they would (out of nowhere) suddenly 'educate' us with Bernadette. In the U.K the woman working, while the man stays at home with the kids, is a very outdated and cliche example of the feminism of yesteryear. Nowadays, there isn't a set way in this regard and an assortment of circumstances exist from couple to couple.

Lastly, it is a very light hearted comedy. Things are not meant to be taken literally and Bernadette's dislike/hatred of kids is high lighted too for the sake of comedy. It obviously offends you which I am sorry about; but it must be remembered that the show's humour relies on racism jokes at the expense of Raj (and other countries too), the autism of Sheldon, the general boredom of being ordinary and not clever or talented and a plethora of other topics! If we (the viewer) took offense at every, dig there wouldn't be much to enjoy left.

Thanks for the thread though, it is an interesting talking point that I wouldn't have considered.

Matt

Are u a hysterical teenage girl? How does 'cute and kind' make "completely passive"??

Am really starting to wonder about u..

Back o the topic i understand what (and for that matter everybody else i think) Howard perpetually comedy is suppose to be however it can be done without hating children..

If you're not suppose be taken literally than nothing can be taken literally, we can just assume that when (for instance) Leonard Hofstadter said the he respects women that he actually hates them and he is a just another bigot because acording to you we are suppose to draw your own conclusions and ignore the facts....

U.K?? There you go again with the gender thing which makes me question your gender.... Or maybe you're just one of those "stay home keept by your wife" and you need to justify yourself...

quote='Tiddles' pid='25647' dateline='1327173885']

With all the fuss about Bernadette, why is no one mentioning that Howard would make a terrible father as he is now? This is a grown man who expects his mother or wife to bring him breakfast in bed and to butter his bread for him. Is he really going to stay up all night trying to comfort a crying baby? I wouldn't want to have children with him, either.

Of course this is TV Land, where as soon as someone gets pregnant they turn into a mature, responsible adult who loves and is great with kids.

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If u want to see fantasy tv i'am sure there's Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers playing somewhere...

Hi Alex7,

The Big Bang Theory is fiction & comedy by its very definition it is fantasy

You obviously have some issues with the direction that the fictional character Bernadette is being taken in by the writers. Fair enough.

I personaly wonder at the wisdom of airing your personal issues on a fan forum. But that is up to you.

I have no desire to get into it with you, and as such already regret posting on what you have claimed as your thread. But I will (just for the sake of it) re-emphasise "Fiction & Comedy."

It is tough enough when one takes real life too seriously, without getting bent out of shape over a character in a TV show.

That is all I have to say on the subject. So have fun with it.:icon_cheesygrin:

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If u want to see fantasy tv i'am sure there's Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers playing somewhere...

Hi Alex7,

The Big Bang Theory is fiction & comedy by its very definition it is fantasy

You obviously have some issues with the direction that the fictional character Bernadette is being taken in by the writers. Fair enough.

I personaly wonder at the wisdom of airing your personal issues on a fan forum. But that is up to you.

I have no desire to get into it with you, and as such already regret posting on what you have claimed as your thread. But I will (just for the sake of it) re-emphasise "Fiction & Comedy."

It is tough enough when one takes real life too seriously, without getting bent out of shape over a character in a TV show.

That is all I have to say on the subject. So have fun with it.:icon_cheesygrin:

Hi Albert Bester

First of all that's pretty personal attack for someone who doesn't want to "get into it"

I have "personal issues " now?? Really? And where exacty do these "personal issues " stick out?? Pray tell:)

So from your point of view anybody can send any message as long as is followed by laughter and the title "Fiction & Comedy."

You can just say "Hitler was a great guy" and then there's some laughter and "Fiction & Comedy."

Because we are all mindless sheep and if we're been told to laugh we laugh and if we're been told to get upset we get upset but only when the writing at the beginning and Albert Bester tells us to;)

In case i'am not mistaking we are on a Big Bang Theory site and we are talking about (are u sitting down?) Big Bang Theory;)

So why don't u get "bent out of shape" for what u want to get and i'll just get for whatever i want to get.

Is that ok with u?

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Jeez Alex you are highly strung!! :) - It is a VERY good idea in life (and even the internet), not to get personal in a debate (even more so when the other person hasn't) - Getting personal is not only crass, but a sign the person hasn't the intelligence and sense of calm to explain themselves succinctly.

Hope you enjoy the rest of this season's 'entertainment' - that is not a documentary :icon_arrow: but entertainment :) :)

Matt

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Can I get a "THANK THE LORD!" ?

If TV Land was "realistic" it would be dull, depressing, not funny at all and by no means an escape from day to day reality

I am happy to say that we are not expected to take any "comedy" to seriously...

That was exactly the point I was trying to make. The fact that these characters are not ideal parenting material is what makes them funny. In real life, would you want to hang around with mama's boy Howard, arrogant, obnoxious Sheldon or drunken, obnoxious Raj either? Why is Bernadette being held to a different standard? She's just a character in a comedy.

Also, I imagine that Bernadette getting more of a backbone and disagreeing with Howard over major things could lead to some good comedy conflicts with the original Mrs. Wolowitz - a fat, loud, overprotective Jewish mother; not exactly politically correct.

To Alex7,getting back to real life, the idea that having a child automatically makes you grow up fast is one of the reasons that there are so many neglected and abused children.

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Jeez Alex you are highly strung!! :) - It is a VERY good idea in life (and even the internet), not to get personal in a debate (even more so when the other person hasn't) - Getting personal is not only crass, but a sign the person hasn't the intelligence and sense of calm to explain themselves succinctly.

Hope you enjoy the rest of this season's 'entertainment' - that is not a documentary :icon_arrow: but entertainment :) :)

Matt

Thank you for that lesson of life and that insult, we the "less intelligent" people thank you for the kind thoughts and great advices, we'll be sure to write them down.

Can I get a "THANK THE LORD!" ?

If TV Land was "realistic" it would be dull, depressing, not funny at all and by no means an escape from day to day reality

I am happy to say that we are not expected to take any "comedy" to seriously...

That was exactly the point I was trying to make. The fact that these characters are not ideal parenting material is what makes them funny. In real life, would you want to hang around with mama's boy Howard, arrogant, obnoxious Sheldon or drunken, obnoxious Raj either? Why is Bernadette being held to a different standard? She's just a character in a comedy.

Also, I imagine that Bernadette getting more of a backbone and disagreeing with Howard over major things could lead to some good comedy conflicts with the original Mrs. Wolowitz - a fat, loud, overprotective Jewish mother; not exactly politically correct.

To Alex7,getting back to real life, the idea that having a child automatically makes you grow up fast is one of the reasons that there are so many neglected and abused children.

No, the people who hate children make abusive parents, check the statistics don't invent crap just to make a point.

Nobody is really prepared to be a parent and we learn as we go but you can't do this without affection and care for your children....

There's no comedy conflicts with somebody who hates children and there's nothing funny about it.

If you guys laugh when she says that and you even defend her then u agree and think that children are disgusting and repulsive and an obstacle in the way of your happiness and i'll always think that people who think like that are sad lonely self-absorbed douches. And if u can't even love your own child then you're a waste of life incapable of any kind of affection unless it's for yourself.

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Alex, I had a look at your profile and I see that this is the only thread you have ever started or have ever posted in. It's, erm, interesting that you joined this forum just so you could post on this particular topic, out of everything related to TBBT.

(I am new to this forum myself, so I'm not aware of everyone's history.)

Clearly it is something that you have very strong personal feelings about, for some reason.

Even the title of this thread "Bernadette Crap", as opposed to say, "Bernadette Not Wanting Children", or something like that, shows how much you have been affected emotionally.

Maybe you need to take a step back. At the risk of sounding too Sheldony, emotions can get in the way of logical thinking.

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Alex, I had a look at your profile and I see that this is the only thread you have ever started or have ever posted in. It's, erm, interesting that you joined this forum just so you could post on this particular topic, out of everything related to TBBT.

(I am new to this forum myself, so I'm not aware of everyone's history.)

Clearly it is something that you have very strong personal feelings about, for some reason.

Even the title of this thread "Bernadette Crap", as opposed to say, "Bernadette Not Wanting Children", or something like that, shows how much you have been affected emotionally.

Maybe you need to take a step back. At the risk of sounding too Sheldony, emotions can get in the way of logical thinking.

Yes i have strong feelings about this but that's beside the point.

In my oppinion they just went to far with that and that's just because they can...

I don't generally think that a forum debate is necessary for a tv show and especially for a sitcom but this one was the last drop.

As i said before is not that this show did this kinda thing for the first time, it's the "Let's just hire cheap writers and instead of complex story plot will just shock people with stupid things" we see in almost every show now...

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She's not crap, she's a side sidekick.

Quietly ..... see the role these characters play in making the big bang theory work.

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There's no need to be insulting.

Nothing personal, i'am just so sick of people posting in my thread without actually reading any posts or just browsing through them...

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why do you guys keep responding to him?

I've read throughout all the 5 pages

he keeps saying you guys don't read through his post when it's obviously you guys do

then he takes it so personal when you guys simply mention about comedy/fiction

and he goes you can watch power rangers somewhere

I was going to give my 2cents since i love debating (last time i got into a debate that the person couldn't even respond properly anymore and instead calling me names...then admin had to delete majority of the posts), but saw his responses were just strictly attacking..im not gonna put myself back into that situation

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why do you guys keep responding to him?

I've read throughout all the 5 pages

he keeps saying you guys don't read through his post when it's obviously you guys do

then he takes it so personal when you guys simply mention about comedy/fiction

and he goes you can watch power rangers somewhere

I was going to give my 2cents since i love debating (last time i got into a debate that the person couldn't even respond properly anymore and instead calling me names...then admin had to delete majority of the posts), but saw his responses were just strictly attacking..im not gonna put myself back into that situation

Your opinion it's just that, your opinion (and its seems that it's that i;am attacking everybody) still i respect but you have no opinion about the subject, so you're just spaming here.

This is not a show and tell thread and nobody cares what u did in other discussions, nobody asked you in this thread and nobody needs for u to "come to the rescue".

So just mind your own buissnes and go searching for people you leave with no reply so you can feel smart and superior;)

Well, I am a parent and even though I enjoy my career I would of gave my left arm to be able to stay home with my kids when they were young. I make twice as much money as my hubby so I had to work. So, maybe kids are more important to Howard than his work. After the kids are grown he can always go back to work. So, maybe he wouldn't mind being home with them. Sounds like Bernadette was more resentful to her parents for putting her in the position of taking care of her siblings. It is possible that after being pregnant (that puts a special bond between you and your unborn child)

she will change her mind about her feelings about children and especially her own child.

I understand that and i'am not arguing that she should stay home and be a house wife because she's a woman.

I'am however arguing that she shouldn't even be allowed to be near his kids since she hates all children and finds them "disgusting and repulsive and an obstacle in the way of your happiness" (there, i said it again).

If your husband would had these feelings would you had really married him and had children with him? Would u really had put them in harms way like that in a situation that had 90% chanses to turn abusive?

This isn't a gender thread, i just think he should offer his future children the best home and family environment and that means with a real actual parent not with something like that..

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no what im trying to state is that everyone here that you went against gave you valid points and you just disregard and make replies with no rebuttal and start saying shit like "why don't you read my post?"

whining like a baby

and all you did was post on this thread and ONLY this thread.

other members posting here was giving sincere replies and you take it as an attack

I understand that and i'am not arguing that she should stay home and be a house wife because she's a woman.

I'am however arguing that she shouldn't even be allowed to be near his kids since she hates all children and finds them "disgusting and repulsive and an obstacle in the way of your happiness" (there, i said it again).

If your husband would had these feelings would you had really married him and had children with him? Would u really had put them in harms way like that in a situation that had 90% chanses to turn abusive?

This isn't a gender thread, i just think he should offer his future children the best home and family environment and that means with a real actual parent not with something like that..

i don't think she ever said she hates all children, please provide a quote

"disgusting and repulsive..." doesn't mean she hates them

where did you get that "90% chance" to turn abusive?

how would you know Bernadette won't change how she feels when she is ACTUALLY PREGNANT AND A MOTHER?

all your statements are flawed and everyone pointed it out with a valid argument and all you like to do is bash on their replies

and when you can't accept it, you make a dumb remark such as watch power rangers

Are u a hysterical teenage girl? How does 'cute and kind' make "completely passive"??

Am really starting to wonder about u..

this is how you reply when you don't like what the other person says

before you spout nonsense about Bernadette stating she hates kids and that a person like that have a 90% chance of being abusive, do some research and provide backup to your claim

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