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Penny should go out with Sheldon


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I agree with the Penny and Leonard dynamic. As it stands now, Penny could say or do anything and Leonard would still want to be with her. Penny has made it clear several times that as far as she is concerned there is absolutely no chance of Leonard ever being interested in someone else or wanting to leave her regardless of what she does. It's great to have absolute trust in someone you are seeing but not to the point that you feel that you can do whatever you want as far as they are concerned. Penny needs to be shook up and if it is even for just a minute, worry about Leonard leaving her for someone else. You should never take someone else in a relationship with you for granted.

But didn't that already happen, to some extent, when Leonard got into a relationship with Priya? I thought that was when Penny realized that (as Amy had commented in truth or dare) she couldn't take for granted that Leonard would hang around waiting for her. And that made her understand that she regretted leaving him.

I think Leonard is better than before, now, in standing up to Penny, though he still has a long way to go. And Penny's comment to Amy that Leonard can never do anything to hurt her, did make me wonder if she's still taking him for granted.

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I agree with the Penny and Leonard dynamic. As it stands now, Penny could say or do anything and Leonard would still want to be with her. Penny has made it clear several times that as far as she is concerned there is absolutely no chance of Leonard ever being interested in someone else or wanting to leave her regardless of what she does. It's great to have absolute trust in someone you are seeing but not to the point that you feel that you can do whatever you want as far as they are concerned. Penny needs to be shook up and if it is even for just a minute, worry about Leonard leaving her for someone else. You should never take someone else in a relationship with you for granted.

But didn't that already happen, to some extent, when Leonard got into a relationship with Priya? I thought that was when Penny realized that (as Amy had commented in truth or dare) she couldn't take for granted that Leonard would hang around waiting for her. And that made her understand that she regretted leaving him.

I think Leonard is better than before, now, in standing up to Penny, though he still has a long way to go. And Penny's comment to Amy that Leonard can never do anything to hurt her, did make me wonder if she's still taking him for granted.

But Penny and Leonard weren't together then, and Penny took great lengths to hide her feelings from Leonard. Yes did Penny realized it then, but when they got back together, it's like everything she learned was tossed out the window. The way she keeps him waiting on the sidelines until everything can happen and progress on her terms. Granted, Leonard is JUST as guilty for letting her get away with it. Both of them are handling their new venture together immaturely.

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I agree with the Penny and Leonard dynamic. As it stands now, Penny could say or do anything and Leonard would still want to be with her. Penny has made it clear several times that as far as she is concerned there is absolutely no chance of Leonard ever being interested in someone else or wanting to leave her regardless of what she does. It's great to have absolute trust in someone you are seeing but not to the point that you feel that you can do whatever you want as far as they are concerned. Penny needs to be shook up and if it is even for just a minute, worry about Leonard leaving her for someone else. You should never take someone else in a relationship with you for granted.

But didn't that already happen, to some extent, when Leonard got into a relationship with Priya? I thought that was when Penny realized that (as Amy had commented in truth or dare) she couldn't take for granted that Leonard would hang around waiting for her. And that made her understand that she regretted leaving him.

I think Leonard is better than before, now, in standing up to Penny, though he still has a long way to go. And Penny's comment to Amy that Leonard can never do anything to hurt her, did make me wonder if she's still taking him for granted.

But Penny and Leonard weren't together then, and Penny took great lengths to hide her feelings from Leonard. Yes did Penny realized it then, but when they got back together, it's like everything she learned was tossed out the window. The way she keeps him waiting on the sidelines until everything can happen and progress on her terms. Granted, Leonard is JUST as guilty for letting her get away with it. Both of them are handling their new venture together immaturely.

I'm not even completely sure what she's waiting for, or afraid of, now. She knows Leonard from 5 years, h's a close friend, she knows he's a nice guy she can trust; and in the last season she clearly realized that she herself has feelings for him and wants to be with him. It's disappointing that she's still messed up with her commitment issues. Maybe she does need to have more going on in her career, to be able to get out of the rut in general.

The fact that she held Leonard's hand was a positive signal, at least.. I hope we see more progress in the next season, in terms of Penny coming to terms with her own feelings and putting her complexes behind her.

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I agree with the Penny and Leonard dynamic. As it stands now, Penny could say or do anything and Leonard would still want to be with her. Penny has made it clear several times that as far as she is concerned there is absolutely no chance of Leonard ever being interested in someone else or wanting to leave her regardless of what she does. It's great to have absolute trust in someone you are seeing but not to the point that you feel that you can do whatever you want as far as they are concerned. Penny needs to be shook up and if it is even for just a minute, worry about Leonard leaving her for someone else. You should never take someone else in a relationship with you for granted.

But didn't that already happen, to some extent, when Leonard got into a relationship with Priya? I thought that was when Penny realized that (as Amy had commented in truth or dare) she couldn't take for granted that Leonard would hang around waiting for her. And that made her understand that she regretted leaving him.

I think Leonard is better than before, now, in standing up to Penny, though he still has a long way to go. And Penny's comment to Amy that Leonard can never do anything to hurt her, did make me wonder if she's still taking him for granted.

But Penny and Leonard weren't together then, and Penny took great lengths to hide her feelings from Leonard. Yes did Penny realized it then, but when they got back together, it's like everything she learned was tossed out the window. The way she keeps him waiting on the sidelines until everything can happen and progress on her terms. Granted, Leonard is JUST as guilty for letting her get away with it. Both of them are handling their new venture together immaturely.

I'm not even completely sure what she's waiting for, or afraid of, now. She knows Leonard from 5 years, h's a close friend, she knows he's a nice guy she can trust; and in the last season she clearly realized that she herself has feelings for him and wants to be with him. It's disappointing that she's still messed up with her commitment issues. Maybe she does need to have more going on in her career, to be able to get out of the rut in general.

The fact that she held Leonard's hand was a positive signal, at least.. I hope we see more progress in the next season, in terms of Penny coming to terms with her own feelings and putting her complexes behind her.

I think it's simply that these writers have not figured out how to write Leonard/Penny. They don't know how to make them funny. So, they resort to the way they wrote them when they first got together. The comedy between them would have been better if they never got together but stayed in a constant state of sexual tension and uncomfortable flirting.

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I agree with the Penny and Leonard dynamic. As it stands now, Penny could say or do anything and Leonard would still want to be with her. Penny has made it clear several times that as far as she is concerned there is absolutely no chance of Leonard ever being interested in someone else or wanting to leave her regardless of what she does. It's great to have absolute trust in someone you are seeing but not to the point that you feel that you can do whatever you want as far as they are concerned. Penny needs to be shook up and if it is even for just a minute, worry about Leonard leaving her for someone else. You should never take someone else in a relationship with you for granted.

But didn't that already happen, to some extent, when Leonard got into a relationship with Priya? I thought that was when Penny realized that (as Amy had commented in truth or dare) she couldn't take for granted that Leonard would hang around waiting for her. And that made her understand that she regretted leaving him.

I think Leonard is better than before, now, in standing up to Penny, though he still has a long way to go. And Penny's comment to Amy that Leonard can never do anything to hurt her, did make me wonder if she's still taking him for granted.

But Penny and Leonard weren't together then, and Penny took great lengths to hide her feelings from Leonard. Yes did Penny realized it then, but when they got back together, it's like everything she learned was tossed out the window. The way she keeps him waiting on the sidelines until everything can happen and progress on her terms. Granted, Leonard is JUST as guilty for letting her get away with it. Both of them are handling their new venture together immaturely.

I'm not even completely sure what she's waiting for, or afraid of, now. She knows Leonard from 5 years, h's a close friend, she knows he's a nice guy she can trust; and in the last season she clearly realized that she herself has feelings for him and wants to be with him. It's disappointing that she's still messed up with her commitment issues. Maybe she does need to have more going on in her career, to be able to get out of the rut in general.

The fact that she held Leonard's hand was a positive signal, at least.. I hope we see more progress in the next season, in terms of Penny coming to terms with her own feelings and putting her complexes behind her.

I think it's simply that these writers have not figured out how to write Leonard/Penny. They don't know how to make them funny. So, they resort to the way they wrote them when they first got together. The comedy between them would have been better if they never got together but stayed in a constant state of sexual tension and uncomfortable flirting.

From a comedic aspect, I think you're right. However, I'm not sure it would be believable to portray them in that kind of unresolved sexual tension over several years, especially since they're neighbours and see each other all the time. It would contradict their character tendencies in general - neither Leonard nor Penny ar known to be saints, or extremely reticent.

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Penny's comment to Amy that Leonard can never do anything to hurt her, did make me wonder if she's still taking him for granted.

I thought Penny's comment to Amy that "Leonard can never do anything to hurt her" meant that Penny's not in love with Leonard.

Only those we truly love can hurt us. If Penny is not in love with Leonard, whatever he does will never hurt her.

That's how I interpreted that comment at the time...

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Penny's comment to Amy that Leonard can never do anything to hurt her, did make me wonder if she's still taking him for granted.

I thought Penny's comment to Amy that "Leonard can never do anything to hurt her" meant that Penny's not in love with Leonard.

Only those we truly love can hurt us. If Penny is not in love with Leonard, whatever he does will never hurt her.

That's how I interpreted that comment at the time...

I guess it can be looked at in that way, too. My impression was that it was more about Leonard (her trusting him to be a nice guy, or her taking him for granted) than about herself.

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Guest I'm not dead Cheryl

I took it as Penny (again) taking Leonard for granted. It ticked me off really.

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Penny's comment to Amy that Leonard can never do anything to hurt her, did make me wonder if she's still taking him for granted.

I thought Penny's comment to Amy that "Leonard can never do anything to hurt her" meant that Penny's not in love with Leonard.

Only those we truly love can hurt us. If Penny is not in love with Leonard, whatever he does will never hurt her.

That's how I interpreted that comment at the time...

IMO to say that Penny was indicating that she didn't love Leonard when she said that he would never do anything to hurt her seems a huge stretch to me. I think that most often the obvious answer is the correct one. When she said that, the obvious answer is that she believes that Leonard would never do anything to hurt her. It sounds to me that she might be overconfident in how strong her hold on Leonard is, but then she very well may be right. I strongly disagree that Penny somehow meant that she didn't love Leonard. I think that if she meant to say that, she would have. Penny is very plain spoken and she doesn't seem to be the type that make cryptic statements.

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But didn't that already happen, to some extent, when Leonard got into a relationship with Priya? I thought that was when Penny realized that (as Amy had commented in truth or dare) she couldn't take for granted that Leonard would hang around waiting for her. And that made her understand that she regretted leaving him.

I'm not even completely sure what she's waiting for, or afraid of, now. She knows Leonard from 5 years, he's a close friend, she knows he's a nice guy she can trust; and in the last season she clearly realized that she herself has feelings for him and wants to be with him. It's disappointing that she's still messed up with her commitment issues. Maybe she does need to have more going on in her career, to be able to get out of the rut in general.

The fact that she held Leonard's hand was a positive signal, at least.. I hope we see more progress in the next season, in terms of Penny coming to terms with her own feelings and putting her complexes behind her.

I'm pretty sure next season will see big developments on the L/P front, after all five years of this starting and stopping is getting ridiculous.

The producers/writers have given big clues as to why Penny is so afraid to commit to Leonard: her perceived wide gap in their stations in life. The best example of that was the last visit of Leonard's mother, season three's "The Maternal Congruence". Nothing like having your boyfriend hide your relationship from his mother and having her "accept" you with these closing lines -

Beverley: And I want you to take very good care of this young woman.

Penny: Oh, thank you, Beverly.

Beverley: You’re welcome. She doesn’t have much in the way of career prospects, don’t make her responsible for her own orgasms as well.

That's got to make you wonder how you would be accepted in that family.

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I know this is a little OT, but I don't think it's been five years cause one season started the day after a previous season. Course, every season happens to go thru September til May but still.

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I took the whole Leonard won't hurt me thing because Penny knows he loves her and can't imagine him falling for someone else while with him. Which in that case is true... I think it would be intresting if Leonard got attention from someone else and started going to that person instead of Penny because Penny neglects him.

Course, that would be hard to do right and still make Penny/Leonard rootable but it would be intresting imo.

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Penny sometimes treats Leonard like a doormat IMO. If she doesn't have any concern about him, even after she jumped all over him for telling her that he loved her, then she is more of less taking him granted. IMO she is assuming that he believes that he can't do any better then her so she has no worries, and therefore doesn't have motive to try to make him happy instead of him always going out of his way to make her so.

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Everyone's perception is different. Mine was that Leonard can't ever hurt Penny because he doesn't have that power over her. YMMV.

That would be very out of character for Penny who is written as someone who does not "over think" anything.

She either says what she means or refuses to say anything at all if something gets too close to her core.

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"He can never do anything to hurt me" - is that what she said?

Here is the exchange from "The Weekend Vortex":

Penny: Mm. You know, Amy, sometimes when you’re in a relationship with someone you really care about, the sucky part is, it leaves you open to getting hurt.

Amy: Do you ever worry about Leonard doing that to you?

Penny: That’s hilarious. No.

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"He can never do anything to hurt me" - is that what she said?

Here is the exchange from "The Weekend Vortex":

Penny: Mm. You know, Amy, sometimes when you’re in a relationship with someone you really care about, the sucky part is, it leaves you open to getting hurt.

Amy: Do you ever worry about Leonard doing that to you?

Penny: That’s hilarious. No.

To me, that says she knows he's in love with her and has been for a long time so the thought of him hurting her is laughable... Not necessarily that she takes him for granted... just her belief that Leonard only has eyes for her.

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Penny: when you’re in a relationship with someone you really care about, the sucky part is, it leaves you open to getting hurt.

Amy: Do you ever worry about Leonard doing that to you?

Penny: That’s hilarious. No.

To me this seems like a pretty clear statement. Penny is saying she doesn't really care about Leonard, hence she's not ever worried about him hurting her. :icon_idea:

(Now, what's still open to interpretation is whether Penny is correct. Maybe she's deluding herself into thinking she doesn't really care about Leonard. *I* think Penny knows her heart at this moment, but some of you may disagree and think she's just in denial about the depth of her feelings.)

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"He can never do anything to hurt me" - is that what she said?

Here is the exchange from "The Weekend Vortex":

Penny: Mm. You know, Amy, sometimes when you’re in a relationship with someone you really care about, the sucky part is, it leaves you open to getting hurt.

Amy: Do you ever worry about Leonard doing that to you?

Penny: That’s hilarious. No.

To me, that says she knows he's in love with her and has been for a long time so the thought of him hurting her is laughable... Not necessarily that she takes him for granted... just her belief that Leonard only has eyes for her.

This is how I took it, too. Which might be interpreted either as her confidence in his devotion towards her, or her taking him for granted.

Whatever it was, the reply was about Leonard's actions, not about her own feelings. I say this because Amy's question was 'Do you ever worry about Leonard doing that to you?' and not 'Do you ever worry about getting hurt in that way by Leonard?'

So her 'that's hilarious' was not a denial of her own capacity of getting hurt by Leonard (and hence of her own feelings for him). It was a denial of the possibility of Leonard doing anything which could hurt her.

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This is how I took it, too. Which might be interpreted either as her confidence in his devotion towards her, or her taking him for granted.

Whatever it was, the reply was about Leonard's actions, not about her own feelings. I say this because Amy's question was 'Do you ever worry about Leonard doing that to you?' and not 'Do you ever worry about getting hurt in that way by Leonard?'

So her 'that's hilarious' was not a denial of her own capacity of getting hurt by Leonard (and hence of her own feelings for him). It was a denial of the possibility of Leonard doing anything which could hurt her.

Agreed, I think Penny really cares about Leonard maybe even loves him but she tries so hard to keep the walls up around her. Which is why I think her profession of love to Leonard would be huge moment in the show.

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If for no other reason, her reaction to Leonard being with Priya I think is a pretty good indication that she does love Leonard. I personally took her response to the question as her taking Leonard's devotion to her for granted. I freely admit that I could be wrong and that is was her voicing her faith in him. In my defense, there was a scene where Leonard and her were talking and Leonard said something along the line of "Let's say I break up with you" to which she responded "let's get serious" or something to that affect. Taking those two scenes together it seems to me that Penny just assumes that someone like Leonard would never break up with someone as hot as her. That is just MY take on it. Regardless, if it is her taking him for granted, or a case of her fearing to voice her feelings for him, to him, I think that something needs to happen to shake her up a little and realize that it is possible that Leonard might not be around for her and that she needs to put in some effort if she doesn't want that to happen. That effort being if she loves him, telling him so. Frankly, if she doesn't love him, and she knows that he loves her, then if she had any consideration at all for him she would break things off with him and tell him that she will never love him instead of keeping him hanging on.

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I'm on opposite side of this. For me, the biggest problem in Leonard's relationship with Penny is Leonard. Until HE proves to me that he truly loves *Penny* (and not just her hot little body or because "being with a hottie" heals his fragile self-esteem), I'll have zero respect for their relationship.

Let Leonard first prove his feelings are deeper than skin, then we can start making demands on Penny... :icon_lol:

P.S. A beautiful woman is like a rich man. Neither likes being pursued for their "assets" alone. "Gold-diggers" or "hot-ass-diggers" are the biggest fear. "He/she doesn't truly love *me*, he/she just wants my money/looks". No one likes feeling used as a bank account or a piece of meat.

Am I explaining this clearly?

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I'm on opposite side of this. For me, the biggest problem in Leonard's relationship with Penny is Leonard. Until HE proves to me that he truly loves *Penny* (and not just her hot little body or because "being with a hottie" heals his fragile self-esteem), I'll have zero respect for their relationship.

Let Leonard first prove his feelings are deeper than skin, then we can start making demands on Penny... :icon_lol:

P.S. A beautiful woman is like a rich man. Neither likes being pursued for their "assets" alone. "Gold-diggers" or "hot-ass-diggers" are the biggest fear. "He/she doesn't truly love *me*, he/she just wants my money/looks". No one likes feeling used as a bank account or a piece of meat.

Am I explaining this clearly?

I think that it is fairly obvious to most viewers that Leonard is only going out with Penny to get her into bed is not the case. So how many men do you think have ever started wanting to go out with Penny because of her interesting conversation, sharp wit, or interesting conversation? Does Penny dress to accentuate her sex appeal, or does she try to do things so that men will focus on her personality or her mind? Leonard told Penny that he loved her, twice. He asked her to marry him. He was willing to date her without having sex. Let's be realistic. There is nothing that Leonard could do that would convince YOU that he wasn't just trying to get her in bed. You are setting unrealistic standards that no matter what they have the character do, they can't be met in YOUR mind. Leonard does love Penny, he is not only interested in her because of sex, and I predict that by the end of the next season Penny will tell him that she loves him.

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