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raj

Penny should go out with Sheldon

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Got ya! So the real reason you think Leonard is not right for Penny is because Sheldon is hotter. That he is, but isn't that a little shallow?

You're being funny, right? :icon_cheesygrin: (I sure hope!)

Not that I think there's anything wrong in wanting to be entertained by a TV couple, and if "hottness" of a couple is what primarily attracts some viewers, there's nothing wrong with that.

But no, what I like about the possibility of Sheldon getting involved with Penny is the tantalizing thought of "opposites attract", both of them teaching the other and making each other better, and also the intrigue of finding out how seemingly opposite people may actually be very close in some fundamental ways.

I must say, what I hoped for Sheldon is already happening with Amy. I thought Penny would be a great catalyst to bring about the human side of Sheldon, but Amy is actually quite successful in that.

As a result now there's less conflict in a potential Sheldon/Penny coupling - which makes it both more likely than ever on the show, and at the same time less desirable for me (since after "humanization" by Amy, there will be much less dramatic tension of getting together with Penny and also much less mutually benefitial learning opportunity - Penny would still benefit, but for Sheldon what's the point?).

So yeah, my reasons for liking Sheldon with Penny are not nearly as simple as "the alpha male should get the alpha female, woof-woof"! :icon_lol:

Btw, back when I liked Leonard, I didn't think him unattractive. He looked attractive enough, just not my taste. But I noticed, the more questionable things he did, and the less I liked him, the less attractive his looks became in my eyes. Nowdays, when he does something icky, I find him almost repulsive.

Another example is Howard - Howard is so not my taste! But nowdays, when he's repeatedly sweet, I find him kind of almost handsome. *gulp* Still not my taste, but I see why Bernie would fall for him.

The lesson is - attraction is not just about looks.


It should read: "Oh, puhlease... You went on and on (and on, and on!) about how horrible Penny WAS and what a better choice Prya WAS. Hypocrite" See the difference. Just trying to help you out.

Thank you. (Without any jokes.) I'm always grateful to people correcting my grammar. I learned English as an adult student, and I always strive to perfect it. :icon_cheesygrin:

(P.S. You're still a hypocrite. Alas. :icon_twisted:

And calling people's posts "stupid, moronic, etc." is tantamount to admitting your defeat in debate. :icon_wink:)

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Like most things, the whole opposite attract theory can be carried to extremes. Penny appears to be the type of person who enjoys physical contact with her boyfriends. I am not talking just about sex, although she seems to enjoy that too, but touching, sitting close, and hugging. She would receive none of those things, including sex, on any kind of a regular basis if she was with Sheldon. He abhors physical contact. In addition on a regular basis Sheldon demeans Penny's job, intelligence, personal habits, and the cleanliness of her apartment. The common excuse of "he doesn't know that what he says or does is wrong" is bogus. As intelligent as he is, if he wanted to learn the right and wrong ways to talk and act he would. He just lacks the motivation to do so.

Penny and Sheldon should never be together. If by some strange chance they were, Penny would quickly become starved for physical contact and affection, and leave him. I won't even go into the fact that she thinks of him as a large child, nor how stressful it would be if Sheldon started dating Leonard's old girlfriend. Someone would have to leave. Fortunately for the show, the creators, writers, and the actors have all made it very clear that they think it is a very bad idea.

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^ Leonard is a flawed individual, as are all of the characters and most human beings. Clearly, you have a problem with people vilifying him for his flaws, but you do realize that blindly excusing all instances of bad behavior is at the exact opposite end of the spectrum, right?

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Putting aside that I'm a Leonard and Penny fan, I just don't think Sheldon can offer emotionally what Penny needs let alone physically unless his character totally changed.. They've gone snail pace with Amy and Sheldon which simply wouldn't work with Penny... I'm not saying she's shallow but she has a tough time even understanding what Sheldon is saying and his non caring way about people would be a turn off for her.

Even if they somehow happened, Leonard and Sheldon would no longer be able to live together to be any way realistic, thus killing an aspect of the show.

Finally, Leonard and Penny have been set since the pilot and if they're not endgame, I would think it's because Penny becomes a big time movie star and not because of Sheldon.

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"Rick, your comment about people bashing Leonard because it spoils the Shenny fantasy is just silly. Most Shenny fans are happy to accept that the relationship may never happen. Mainly due to the fact that the writers have devolved his character while leaving hers fairly one dimensional. The reason people bash Leonard's character is because he is a worm, until the writers rectify this, it is not likely to improve. I can give numerous examples of his worminess as below:"

Bull. It is the most logical explanation for some of the rabid overblown and often near imaginary complaints. See examples below:

"The first episode where he desperately grabbed Penny's attention as she admired Sheldon's work then at the end of the episode stated, 'our babies will be smart and beautiful'. Seriously, is this a rational statement for a man to make about a woman he just met? Or is it the deluded outcry of an immature male?"

He is a nerd and socially inept. Yes, he tried to grab Penny's attention. Stand him up against the wall and shoot him. A nerd trying to impress a pretty girl. As for his statement about their babies, reality check, many people, both male and female make nonsensical comments about imagined futures with people they just met.

"Leonard repeatedly tries to deny or cover up his nerdish leanings as he thinks Penny will think less of him for it, this comes across in multiple episodes. It is a huge indicator of his insecurity. One of the most attractive qualities in any man is that he is comfortable with and sure about who he is. Neither of which can be attributed to Leonard but both can be attributed to Sheldon."

Really? Did you ever wear makeup changing your skin tone or texture when you went out with a guy? Ever ever color your hair or ever do something to change the natural curls of your hair? Color your nails? Is this a HUGE indicator of YOUR insecurity?

"Leonard makes up a lie so he won't have to hear Penny perform in her showcase of Rent. Yes her singing is pretty bad but if as all the Lenny fans claim he really believes in her and cares about her then he would have been there to support her."

Once again, they were not a couple nor dating at the time. I wouldn't have sat through it and if I did I am pretty sure that I would have a difficult time pretending that I enjoyed it. They weren't a couple then.

"Leonard again lies to Penny when he discovers that she is taking care of Sheldon when he is sick and goes to great lengths to maintain the lie and avoid going anywhere near the apartment. I am glad I don't live with him and need help when I am ill."

Sheldon is hypochondriac. The guys have a system in place for when he is ill. He is an adult. An adult should not need someone to wait on him hand and foot when he is ill. He should take care of himself. It's called being a grownup. As for lying to Penny, sucks to be her. She wasn't his girlfriend and she was stupid enough to get roped into it. Every man for himself.

"Leonard decides to sell off all his precious nerdy memorabilia because he thinks Penny won't be interested in him, then he sees her dating another guy and buys it all back. Why can't he make a choice and stick to it?"

You missed the point. She made him feel ashamed and juvenile because of his collection. When he saw the guy coming for Penny he decided he would take her opinion for what it was worth and kept them. I thought you would applaud him for his independence. First he's wrong for wanting to sell his stuff and then he's wrong for deciding to keep it. Can't win with you, can he?

"Leonard's solution to Penny's insecurities about her education is to present her with a college brochure rather than reassure her the difference in their education doesn't matter to him."

Gee, a physicist thinks that an education is important. Penny has a problem with her lack of her education so he tries to help her get more of and education. What a jerk.

"When Leonard went to talk to Penny during her age of Conan addiction he was clearly replused by her appearance, yet Sheldon was oblivious to her dishevelled state when he tried to set her up with another man. To Sheldon she is Penny, not just a hot piece of ass. Also he was very clear about his opinion of her achievements etc when he talked to her. Someone pointed out that it was Penny who said she was a complete failure at everything she tries. Yes she did, but she said it to Sheldon not to Leonard. Sheldon didn't pass that on only that she looks to mid west, hasn't had sex for six months and ate a fly. Of course we all know what was the only part of that sentence Leonard heard. He decided all by himself that Penny had not achieved anything in her life."

Her appearance was repulsive. She had a cheese curl in her hair and then ate it. Somehow it makes Sheldon a good person because he didn't notice? She had a big problem and Sheldon didn't even notice. Nice friend. Penny was right. At that point in time she had failed in everything she tried. Leonard tried to comfort her and give her hope. What a jerk.

"Leonard couldn't get into Stephanie Barnett's pants fast enough even though he knew he was betraying a friend. Yes she did throw herself at him, but Leonard was clearly not in a hurry to tell Howard he was dating her, he left it for Stephanie to do it. A good friend he is not."

How was he betraying a friend? Did Howard call "dibs" so she was his forever? How long had he known her? When Leonard asked her if Howard ever had a chance and she said no, that met all of the friend criteria. If Howard had actually taken her on a date, it would be one thing, but he hadn't even got that far. This is silly.

"Leonard throws quite a tantrum when Penny dates David Underhill using the childish statement of 'what does he have that I don't have?' Apart from the fact that D.U. was gorgeous he was confident about who he is. Leonard's insecurity is probably his most unappealling quality."

This scene makes Leonard a bad person. Give me a break. Another rabid criticism of an imaginary fault.

"Leonard watched Sheldon turn himself inside out trying to make friends with Barry Kripke. The little smirk he gave at the end of the episode showed he knew all along about the official schedule but chose to keep it to himself. What a good friend he is, not!"

This is the first that I have heard anyone state that they thought that Leonard know about the schedule. Have an overactive imagination don't we. He smirked because Sheldon had gone through all of that to be Kripke's friend in order to get put at the head of the schedule (what a great thing for anyone to do) and it turns out that Kripke had nothing to do with it. Another imagined fault to criticize him for.

"Leonard tries to ask out Summer Glau (not sure about the spelling), this is near the end of season 2 when we are all supposed to believe that Leonard only has eyes for Penny."

When were "we all" supposed to believe that Leonard only has eyes for Penny. They weren't dating. So how did this come about? You have very overactive imagination. This really is stretching to find fault with the guy.

"In the dead hooker juxtaposition (again near the end of season 2) he again forgot about Penny when the new girl in the building started sweet talking him, just as when Sheldon's sister visited he went to enormous lengths to prove he was an appropriate prospective mate for Missy, never once considering Missy probably wasn't interested in him."

He forgot about Penny. WERE THEY DATING? Is he supposed to sit in his apartment forever hoping that someday Penny may take notice of him? There is nothing wrong with him trying to either get close to the new girl upstairs or with Missy. What kind of reasoning is it that it is wrong to try to be with a girl because she might not be interested. Let me guess. All guys should sit at home and wait for the girl to call him. This is another really big stretch.

"His lowest act, destroying Sheldon's research in the arctic. All the Lenny fans scream it was understandable, Sheldon is so difficult to live with. Firstly Leonard had been living with Sheldon for six years so should have been very aware of the potential problems sharing a confined space with him for three months. Secondly he was quick to jump at the chance of being recognized in a scientific journal which vetoed all other considerations. Until he realized he had a chance with Penny then was willing to do what it took to get back. Then when he realized his betrayal had been discovered he was still completely focussed on getting into Penny's pants until she forced him to go after Sheldon."

He did not destroy Sheldon's research. All of the data was saved. Sheldon's butt headedness kicked into overdrive when he couldn't prove his theory. I keep hearing how terrible Leonard was but Howard and Raj wanted to KILL him. Somehow they get a pass. As for him wanting to get in Penny's pants after being in the Artic for 3 months, and leaving the next day to go get Sheldon, SO WHAT? Sheldon was at his mommy's house, not out in the middle of the desert somewhere. What difference would had made if they waited until the next day to go get his whiney butt out of his mommy's house and bring him home? Noooooo. He should have dropped everything and go running to him right away. I did mention that Penny wanted to have sex with him didn't I. Take 100 straight males and put them in the same situation, and 90 of them would have done the same thing that Leonard did. The other 10 lied about being straight. Another imaginary fault.

"His conveniently forgetting to tell his mother that he was dating Penny. If he was proud of her and loved her what his mother thought wouldn't matter to him. It again shows his immaturity that he still desperately needs his mother's approval."

His mother complained that he never told her anything about his life. Why should he tell his mother about Penny only to have her disapprove? Even after his mother told him to take care of Penny, she did it in such a way that slammed Penny. If I was in his place I wouldn't want my mother slamming the girl I was with either. Maybe he was more worried about his Mother hurting Penny's feelings. Somehow this is viewed as a fault of his? Pathetic.

"His openly mocking Penny about seeing the psychic. Yes he is a scientist and clearly believes it is hokem but she is his girlfriend by then and deserves a little respect. Even going to the point of buying a book to prove all psychics are frauds which he throws away when the prospect of getting into Penny pants becomes a possibility again. Also note in that episode he says to Howard, if he wants to maintain a 'sexual' relationship he has to go against what he believes in. Why couldn't he just say relationship? It is pretty obvious what is the most important part of their relationship to him."

You do know that he is a scientist right? You somehow find it surprising that he thinks it is silly for Penny to believe in astrology? As for the "sexual relationship" part, maybe it went over your head. What he was saying was that if he wanted to ever have sex with Penny again he had to go against what he believes in. This is the theme of a allot of jokes in the U.S.. It is not unusual when a guy says or does something to his girlfriend or wife that might upset her, his friend joke around and say "guess who isn't getting any tonight". Leonard's statement was just a variant of that. It is a non-issue.

"In the one about the ring from LOTR, he goes to great lengths to show the others they are being immature and selfish fighting over the ring, then at the end of the episode we see he still has it after telling them he had fed-exed it Peter Jackson. Yet another lie.There are multiple other examples I am sure but at the moment this is all I can come up with."

Do you understand the whole premise of the Lord of the Rings or the Fellowship of the Ring? You know, how the Ring brings out the greed in people and what they will do to possess it? Did that go right over your head? The fault is yours.

"I am sorry Lenny fans I cannot see him as this sweet, caring wonderful guy, I see him as a worm. Until the writers improve his character this is likely to continue. Also it fascinates me how all of you are so quick to jump on anyone who tries to explain Sheldon's behaviour. There actually are reasons why he is the way he is. It is pretty unlikely he would develop normally socially when he went through college at eleven. He does make every effort to understand social situations and apologizes when he realizes he has done the wrong thing. He has also voluntarily hugged Penny on more than one occasion, a man who everyone states abhors any kind of physical contact. It is the fact that Penny has helped him to grow that is their strongest drawcard. People have repeatedly claimed that Sheldons thinks Penny is a slut and stupid. I don't believe he has ever said anything like that and how is it so many of you seem to know without a doubt what tv characters are thinking? Yet these same fans always have endless justifications and excuses for Leonard's behaviour. "

It appears to me that for the most part your criticisms of Leonard's shortfalls are mostly imaginary and say much more about your bias against the character then it does about his supposed faults. If you were fair and were as critical about the other character's actions as you were his, then perhaps you would be more believable.

Rick, your repeated justifications have only demonstrated my point. This is apart from the numerous personal insults peppered throughout your reply. It is what I don't like about the Lenny fans, they seem incapable of replying to a comment about Leonard without personally attacking the person who posted it. Is he a friend of yours or a relative? And yet you use the word 'rabid' repeatedly. It is the personally affronted up in arms defense of him that I find irritating.

By the way, on my first date with my husband, I did not wear makeup, my hair was uncoloured and I wore jeans and a shirt. You have repeatedly stated that it is physical appearance that attracts men and women to each other. My husband has told me repeatedly it was my intelligence and strength of character that drew him to me.

I could handle the Penny/Leonard relationship if it had more depth. I would just like once to hear Leonard say what it is about Penny that he loves. I would think after five years he could come up with a few reasons other than her looks.

You have repeatedly defended his behaviour by saying they weren't dating at the time. I thought most Leonard and Penny fans believed their relationship was destined from the start of the show. My point was Leonard seems to have a short attention span where women are concerned.

Try to respond Rick without personally attacking me if you can, I did not attack you.

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Putting aside that I'm a Leonard and Penny fan, I just don't think Sheldon can offer emotionally what Penny needs let alone physically unless his character totally changed.. They've gone snail pace with Amy and Sheldon which simply wouldn't work with Penny... I'm not saying she's shallow but she has a tough time even understanding what Sheldon is saying and his non caring way about people would be a turn off for her.

Even if they somehow happened, Leonard and Sheldon would no longer be able to live together to be any way realistic, thus killing an aspect of the show.

Finally, Leonard and Penny have been set since the pilot and if they're not endgame, I would think it's because Penny becomes a big time movie star and not because of Sheldon.

Sheldon can't even offer what Amy needs, much less a healthy girl like Penny. It is totally ludicrous to consider Sheldon a mate for Penny. And as you said Leonard Penny have been set since the pilot. That is the way the writers are going to go, they have stated that, and the delusional ramblings of Shenny Shippers will have no effect on it.

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You are delusional. You are stating things that the creators have denied. So thats not an insult or attacking. It's the truth. Preach on Rick. Haters gonna hate. Lenny going to keep Winning, Winning, Winning.

Agreed.

What a keyboard thrashing that was Rick. Well done!!!

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It makes me giggle that Lenny fans' favorite defense of their pairing is that it was set from the pilot. Apparently a couple needn't be compatible as long as TPTB tell you they're meant to be.

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^ Leonard is a flawed individual, as are all of the characters and most human beings. Clearly, you have a problem with people vilifying him for his flaws, but you do realize that blindly excusing all instances of bad behavior is at the exact opposite end of the spectrum, right?

@Africayellowcat - you did an awesome job laying out some of Leonard's less worthy moments... I doubt it will help Lennys see the light and understand why some fans are disappointed in Leonard. You can't solve this debate by logic (or by anything else). People like who they like, it's not logical, it's not rational.

@baylee - good point. Unfortunately, it will be wasted on Rick et al.

Love is blind. Sometimes, when fans become enamoured of a TV character, they become completely blind and deaf to any of his shortcomings. They remind me of some blindly loving parents of a child - it doesn't matter what their child does, some parents will NEVER see it objectively, they refuse to recognize that he is not perfect. The child is the apple of their eyes and that's the end of it, he can never do no wrong :icon_wink: and anyone who dares to criticize him is evil and should be destroyed.

It is what it is. Logic and rational arguments hold no water when people passionately feel something.

I wish it were as simple as explaining to each other our different points of view and learning to accept and live with disagreement...

However, what makes this whole "rabid fan" mess so tedious is the non-stop bickering and attacking of "the enemy". (And Rick should make no mistake - he and Slick are Sample Number One in that particular line of crazy fandom. :icon_lol:)

When the fans become so completely and blindly enamoured of a character or a 'ship, they are no longer satisfied just to live in their happy little bubble of enjoying their favorite, instead they have to go out and attack - other fans are no longer just people with a different p.o.v., instead anyone disagreeing becomes The Enemy.

Anyway, my point is - in my experience, when fans reach the point of no return in their worship of a character, it becomes quite useless to talk to them rationally. It's not about logic, it's about LOVE and HATE. It's quite fascinating to watch. :icon_lol:

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^ Leonard is a flawed individual, as are all of the characters and most human beings. Clearly, you have a problem with people vilifying him for his flaws, but you do realize that blindly excusing all instances of bad behavior is at the exact opposite end of the spectrum, right?

@Africayellowcat - you did an awesome job laying out some of Leonard's less worthy moments... I doubt it will help Lennys see the light and understand why some fans are disappointed in Leonard. You can't solve this debate by logic (or by anything else). People like who they like, it's not logical, it's not rational.

@baylee - good point. Unfortunately, it will be wasted on Rick et al.

Love is blind. Sometimes, when fans become enamoured of a TV character, they become completely blind and deaf to any of his shortcomings. They remind me of some blindly loving parents of a child - it doesn't matter what their child does, some parents will NEVER see it objectively, they refuse to recognize that he is not perfect. The child is the apple of their eyes and that's the end of it, he can never do no wrong :icon_wink: and anyone who dares to criticize him is evil and should be destroyed.

It is what it is. Logic and rational arguments hold no water when people passionately feel something.

I wish it were as simple as explaining to each other our different points of view and learning to accept and live with disagreement...

However, what makes this whole "rabid fan" mess so tedious is the non-stop bickering and attacking of "the enemy". (And Rick should make no mistake - he and Slick are Sample Number One in that particular line of crazy fandom. :icon_lol:)

When the fans become so completely and blindly enamoured of a character or a 'ship, they are no longer satisfied just to live in their happy little bubble of enjoying their favorite, instead they have to go out and attack - other fans are no longer just people with a different p.o.v., instead anyone disagreeing becomes The Enemy.

Anyway, my point is - in my experience, when fans reach the point of no return in their worship of a character, it becomes quite useless to talk to them rationally. It's not about logic, it's about LOVE and HATE. It's quite fascinating to watch. :icon_lol:

Well put and very much agree on various points stated now the question would be how does one go about stating thier p.o.v. without the smell of "torches" burning or the clanking of "pitch forks".Is it really so hard to stay "On Topic" and keep comments to the show and not bring one's personal life into a thread which here lately seems to be a few peoples idea of how to prove a point about a "fictional" tv show with "fictional" characters in it.I believe the topic was "Penny should go out with Sheldon" or was there a "Type-O"???

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^ Leonard is a flawed individual, as are all of the characters and most human beings. Clearly, you have a problem with people vilifying him for his flaws, but you do realize that blindly excusing all instances of bad behavior is at the exact opposite end of the spectrum, right?

@Africayellowcat - you did an awesome job laying out some of Leonard's less worthy moments... I doubt it will help Lennys see the light and understand why some fans are disappointed in Leonard. You can't solve this debate by logic (or by anything else). People like who they like, it's not logical, it's not rational.

@baylee - good point. Unfortunately, it will be wasted on Rick et al.

Love is blind. Sometimes, when fans become enamoured of a TV character, they become completely blind and deaf to any of his shortcomings. They remind me of some blindly loving parents of a child - it doesn't matter what their child does, some parents will NEVER see it objectively, they refuse to recognize that he is not perfect. The child is the apple of their eyes and that's the end of it, he can never do no wrong :icon_wink: and anyone who dares to criticize him is evil and should be destroyed.

It is what it is. Logic and rational arguments hold no water when people passionately feel something.

I wish it were as simple as explaining to each other our different points of view and learning to accept and live with disagreement...

However, what makes this whole "rabid fan" mess so tedious is the non-stop bickering and attacking of "the enemy". (And Rick should make no mistake - he and Slick are Sample Number One in that particular line of crazy fandom. :icon_lol:)

When the fans become so completely and blindly enamoured of a character or a 'ship, they are no longer satisfied just to live in their happy little bubble of enjoying their favorite, instead they have to go out and attack - other fans are no longer just people with a different p.o.v., instead anyone disagreeing becomes The Enemy.

Anyway, my point is - in my experience, when fans reach the point of no return in their worship of a character, it becomes quite useless to talk to them rationally. It's not about logic, it's about LOVE and HATE. It's quite fascinating to watch. :icon_lol:

Talk about the pot......

Sheldon is sooooo handsome, he's so cute, his eyes are soooo beautiful, he is sooooooo childlike, he's soooooo innocent.

I have freely admitted that Leonard has his faults, but I have also defended him against some really off the wall, nitpicking, and often imagined faults. I notice that the same people making these accusations have NEVER found a fault in Sheldon nor Penny.

Leonard does have a tendency to act as a doormat. He lets both Sheldon and Penny bully him. He should have left the apartment a long time ago when some of Sheldon's over the top demands became apparent. When Sheldon blackmailed him and Priya he should have not only left the apartment, but never speak to Sheldon again. In his relationship with Sheldon, Leonard does most of the giving and Sheldon most of the taking.

As for Penny, emotionally it is a one way street with him doing most of the giving and her the taking. When he told her that he loved her and she said "thank you", he should have ended it right then. In addition, when he said something along the line of if theoretically he ever broke up with Penny, who then stopped him and said "let's get real", indicating IMO that if there were any breaking up, she would do it. He should have gotten out of bed then and left. At the present, Penny is a emotional parasite.

This is not Sheldon's fault nor is it Penny's. The fault lies with Leonard for letting them. He needs to grow a pair.

On the other hand, the whole "Sheldon should get together with Penny" is a ridiculous premise as expressed by the people actually associated with the show. Sheldon can hardly stand to touch someone else. How could anyone believe that he would be a good match with someone who appears to enjoy physical contact like Penny is beyond me. I won't even go into the emotional problems that would come between them. Let me just say that if Penny wanted to be with a child, which is how she views Sheldon, then she should either adopt or get pregnant. If you doubt it, watch the episode where she takes him to Disneyland.

The "theory" that people defend Leonard because they are enamored with him, I suggest that some people need to look into a mirror. As I have said on numerous occasions, I started this because of mindless attacks by cbolt when he attacked Leonard while at the same time he proclaimed Penny a "goddess". Leonard is the closest thing to a normal guy that is on the show. Penny is the closest thing to a normal woman with the possible exception of Bernadette. It seems fairly obvious what the creators intent was when they came up with the 2 characters.

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Well put and very much agree on various points stated now the question would be how does one go about stating thier p.o.v. without the smell of "torches" burning or the clanking of "pitch forks".Is it really so hard to stay "On Topic" and keep comments to the show and not bring one's personal life into a thread which here lately seems to be a few peoples idea of how to prove a point about a "fictional" tv show with "fictional" characters in it.I believe the topic was "Penny should go out with Sheldon" or was there a "Type-O"???

Yes it is. Our opinions on anything are based off of personal experience and investigation. It is very easy to fill in the blanks with assumptions that a person doesn't understand is an assumption. So, from time to time, it is needed to point out to someone that a particular thought or action is not universal, but local to the poster, and not something that "everyone" does or everyone will see the same way. It does sometimes need to be personal, but doesn't always have to be negative. I grew up on a tourist beach. There are many things in life I probably don't even question that I should, because not everyone has my life's experiences. Things I think are automatic simply aren't.

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Well put and very much agree on various points stated now the question would be how does one go about stating thier p.o.v. without the smell of "torches" burning or the clanking of "pitch forks".Is it really so hard to stay "On Topic" and keep comments to the show and not bring one's personal life into a thread which here lately seems to be a few peoples idea of how to prove a point about a "fictional" tv show with "fictional" characters in it.I believe the topic was "Penny should go out with Sheldon" or was there a "Type-O"???

Yes it is. Our opinions on anything are based off of personal experience and investigation. It is very easy to fill in the blanks with assumptions that a person doesn't understand is an assumption. So, from time to time, it is needed to point out to someone that a particular thought or action is not universal, but local to the poster, and not something that "everyone" does or everyone will see the same way. It does sometimes need to be personal, but doesn't always have to be negative. I grew up on a tourist beach. There are many things in life I probably don't even question that I should, because not everyone has my life's experiences. Things I think are automatic simply aren't.

Point well put and I do understand how you use life experience to form opinions on subjects, I guess all I am asking or wondering is

why after five seasons of storyline, character evolvement and the like that there should be plenty of useable material to state and defend most any subject listed around this forum.The constant need to argue a point into the ground for the sake of having the last word sometimes just amazes sorry just my honest opinion here.

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It makes me giggle that Lenny fans' favorite defense of their pairing is that it was set from the pilot. Apparently a couple needn't be compatible as long as TPTB tell you they're meant to be.

No, but on any primetime show that deals with relationships, if a show tells you that X is into Y then it's reasonable to assume that they will be together, hell it was the main driving plot for a few seasons. That's not even talking about whether they're compatible or not.

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Sheldon should not be with Penny because she views him as an overgrown child. Once again, reference the scene where she took him to Disney world. Upon their return she treated him exactly like a mother or aunt would treat a child. Hopefully there are not many women out there who find a man who they think of being "childlike" attractive or a man who looks for the same quality in a women. I would like to think that adults are looking for other adults to marry.

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I have... defended him against...

Why do you need to defend (!) a fictional character at all? And why your preferred method of defence is bashing other characters? And why do you pick those characters to bash who are favorites of your opponents?

You, my friend, are long gone on the road to the fandom insanity.

You 1) DEFEND a fictional character (as if he were not a figment of imagination but your own flesh & blood),

2) by BASHING other fictional characters (as if they care :icon_lol:),

3) and you're trying to attack REAL PEOPLE if they don't like your favorite.

Don't you think it's completely mental, doing this? "Defending" a figment of imagination from opinions of other people (!!! :icon_lol:), all the while trying to attack and hurt feelings of real people behind the screen? :icon_eek:

When *I* disagreed with you about Leonard, you started bashing Sheldon - I'm guessing, because I'm Sheldon's fan? (Not that I give a damn, I can see the line between "real" and "imaginary", thank you very much. Carry on, Sheldon doesn't care, and neither do I. :icon_wink:)

You admitted that the reason you kept bashing Penny was because it upset cbolt.

Now, in my book, feeling enamoured of a fictional character is okay - whatever, we've all done it one time or another. But trying to attack another human being because you feel the need to "defend" your favorite fictional figment (of someone else's imagination :icon_lol:!) from opinions of other people - that's crossing the line of both sanity and basic good manners.

It doesn't matter that you do not succeed. It's the thought that counts.

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I have... defended him against...

Why do you need to defend (!) a fictional character at all? And why your preferred method of defence is bashing other characters? And why do you pick those characters to bash who are favorites of your opponents?

You, my friend, are long gone on the road to the fandom insanity.

You 1) DEFEND a fictional character (as if he were not a figment of imagination but your own flesh & blood),

2) by BASHING other fictional characters (as if they care :icon_lol:),

3) and you're trying to attack REAL PEOPLE if they don't like your favorite.

Don't you think it's completely mental, doing this? "Defending" a figment of imagination from opinions of other people (!!! :icon_lol:), all the while trying to attack and hurt feelings of real people behind the screen? :icon_eek:

When *I* disagreed with you about Leonard, you started bashing Sheldon - I'm guessing, because I'm Sheldon's fan? (Not that I give a damn, I can see the line between "real" and "imaginary", thank you very much. Carry on, Sheldon doesn't care, and neither do I. :icon_wink:)

You admitted that the reason you kept bashing Penny was because it upset cbolt.

Now, in my book, feeling enamoured of a fictional character is okay - whatever, we've all done it one time or another. But trying to attack another human being because you feel the need to "defend" your favorite fictional figment (of someone else's imagination :icon_lol:!) from opinions of other people - that's crossing the line of both sanity and basic good manners.

It doesn't matter that you do not succeed. It's the thought that counts.

I applaud you Bigbang, you are my hero (fingers crossed this won't get removed as my post yesterday did, although I have no idea why) It appears the Lenny fans are allowed to be as antagonistic and abusive as they please.

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I just find it completely mind-boggling how quickly the normal sane people lose all sense of perspective by gleefully jumping into the fray of a flame war... -> What I'm trying to say is, I understand why Lennys behave the way they do. I think they are good normal sane people, they just got caught up in the insanity of fandom.

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It would be nice to see this absurd thread about a horrible idea get back on topic.

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Agreed. Lets get this absurdly off-topic thread about a wonderful idea back on topic.

Penny should go out with Sheldon. Their children will be both smart and beautiful, and also tall and NOT lactose intolerant. :icon_cheesygrin:

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Agreed. Lets get this absurdly off-topic thread about a wonderful idea back on topic.

Penny should go out with Sheldon. Their children will be both smart and beautiful, and also tall and NOT lactose intolerant. :icon_cheesygrin:

And very, very imaginary..

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Everyone is entitled to their opinion wayelrob. What frustrates the Shenny shippers is that the Lenny shippers are unable to defend or explain their point of view without personal attacks. It would be refreshing to read a reply from that group that does not use the words: idiotic, moronic, stupid, insane, deranged, deluded etc. etc.

All I asked at the start of my posting is what is the basis for the L/P match? I would like someone to tell me more than it is canon, or it is what the producers planned from the start. Who cares? Surely a relationship needs more than it was the original intention, so let's ignore all the flaws in it. The most I have seen people state is that she enjoys sex and he is a nice guy (sometimes).

It has also been argued in very colourful terms why Penny and Sheldon shouldn't date. Okay most Shenny shippers know it may never happen. Although I am a firm believer in the saying, never say never, it has made a fool of too many people.

The point is we are all entitled to our opinion, I see that Penny and Sheldon are better suited in many ways. But the Penny and Sheldon I loved were in the first two seasons. After that both characters deteriorated and I am not sure they will find their way back. Penny was no longer the bright, happy extroverted girl she was in the first two seasons. Leonard was no longer the likeable nerd with a vain hope of dating the goddess across the hall. Sheldon was no longer the most mature and best character in the show. The relationship changed the whole dynamic of the show and not in a good way. Someone mentioned earlier about Penny and Sheldon being polar opposites, in my opinion Leonard and Penny are equally opposite. She's extroverted, he's introverted, he's well educted, she is not, he comes from a compicated family background, she comes from much more basic traditional family, he's into everything she is not and vice versa. Maybe the writers need to work on giving their relationship more depth.

No personal attacks please, having a different opinion does not mean I am any of the above adjectives.

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