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Penny should go out with Sheldon

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Leave Leonard OUT of it if you're gonna ship them.

That's very hard to do for those of us who like Penny and don't think Leonard is a good match for her.

As Penny's fan, I believe Penny would be better of with ANYONE but Leonard - Raj, Zack, Sheldon, a new guy...

As Sheldon's fan, I'd prefer to see Penny with Sheldon, but I'm completely flexible and open to suggestions, as long as it's NOT Leonard. Just. Say. No! :icon_lol:

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Leonard obviously has issues with his mother but he is dealing with it much better then either Howard or Sheldon are.

Leonard is dealing? He's not dealing at all. The guy needs therapy! Leonard is completely screwed up by his tragic upbringing - he is deeply ashamed of himself, insecure, jealous, whining, unhappy, and unfulfilled.

Leonard's "mommy issues" is THE ABSENCE OF MOTHER'S LOVE. That monumental issue is what severly damaged Leonard emotionally, and so far he's unable to get over it. (That's not an issue at all in case of either Howard or Sheldon. Their issue is immaturity - easily cured compared to the emotional fallout of growing up unloved by your own mother.)

Leonard said that he got his PHD in physics when he was 23. Do the math. Generally it takes 8 years of education to get a PHD. That would mean that Leonard had to graduate high school somewhere around 15. In addition, he didn't get a PHD in basket weaving, he got it in Physics.

Big deal, LOL. I graduated high school at 16, went to university and got to know plenty of people who got their PhDs in physics, mathematics, or biology by 23-24. They were very smart, but not geniuses.

Btw, I didn't say Leonard wasn't intelligent, just IMO of "average accomplishments". The question is 1) what was his background beforehand, and 2) did he accomplish anything of note in science?

Leonard comes from a highly intellectual family of scientists. In such families, graduating early and going for brainy advanced degrees is par of the course, it's nothing to brag about, it's EXPECTED. It's not just "smart genes" either. From kindergarten, such kids get the tutelage, the support, training, and motivation to do this.

Given all these advantages from an early age, and getting that PhD, are Leonard's accomplishments successful or average? Average, he's not the top of his field. The world is full of physics PhDs who never produce any important original research of scientific significance.

Beverly says so too - compared to his siblings who are much more successful professionally, Leonard is a disappointment.

P.S. Btw, the above is NOT a criticism of Leonard. There's nothing wrong with being "average", especially when the bar is set so high by one's family background, advantages and expectations. But for Leonard this feeling of NOT measuring up to his family potential (compared to his siblings) means a double wammy on top of his mommy issues. He's an emotional unhappy mess as a result.

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Guest I'm not dead Cheryl

aaaannnnd we are back to the "Penny should go out with Sheldon because I don't like Leonard thing...............................

Leonard is dealing? He's not dealing at all. The guy needs therapy! Leonard is completely screwed up by his tragic upbringing - he is deeply ashamed of himself' date=' insecure, jealous, whining, unhappy, and unfulfilled. [/quote']

in all fairness, all the characters on this show need therapy. ALL of them.

P.S. Btw, the above is NOT a criticism of Leonard. There's nothing wrong with being "average", especially when the bar is set so high by one's family background, advantages and expectations. But for Leonard this feeling of NOT measuring up to his family potential (compared to his siblings) means a double wammy on top of his mommy issues. He's an emotional unhappy mess as a result.

So, because of that, he is unworthy of being with the girl he loves? he should just give up and die alone?

I think that if despite all that, he is still going after what he wants, it is even more commendable than, for example, Sheldon who doesn't even try by himself (Amy has to push him for that). Leonard keeps trying, he doesn't give up, and of course, he doesn't get it right a lot of the times, but he stands up and keeps going, even if he gets hurt in the process. And that's one thing that Leonard has in his advantage.

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P.S. Btw, the above is NOT a criticism of Leonard. There's nothing wrong with being "average", especially when the bar is set so high by one's family background, advantages and expectations. But for Leonard this feeling of NOT measuring up to his family potential (compared to his siblings) means a double wammy on top of his mommy issues. He's an emotional unhappy mess as a result.

So, because of that, he is unworthy of being with the girl he loves? he should just give up and die alone?

No, it's just that he will go to any lengths to please Penny, he wants her at any cost, even if it means changing who he is as a person. It's like the old saying goes, nobody will love you if you don't love yourself, and Leonard does not love himself.

I think that if despite all that, he is still going after what he wants, it is even more commendable than, for example, Sheldon who doesn't even try by himself (Amy has to push him for that). Leonard keeps trying, he doesn't give up, and of course, he doesn't get it right a lot of the times, but he stands up and keeps going, even if he gets hurt in the process. And that's one thing that Leonard has in his advantage.

Well, Sheldon never asked for it though. Sheldon is to Amy as Penny is to Leonard. And Leonard's persistence can be a double edged sword. It's good he is always there for her, but it also lets him be taken for granted by her.

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Guest I'm not dead Cheryl

P.S. Btw, the above is NOT a criticism of Leonard. There's nothing wrong with being "average", especially when the bar is set so high by one's family background, advantages and expectations. But for Leonard this feeling of NOT measuring up to his family potential (compared to his siblings) means a double wammy on top of his mommy issues. He's an emotional unhappy mess as a result.

So, because of that, he is unworthy of being with the girl he loves? he should just give up and die alone?

No, it's just that he will go to any lengths to please Penny, he wants her at any cost, even if it means changing who he is as a person. It's like the old saying goes, nobody will love you if you don't love yourself, and Leonard does not love himself.

I think that if despite all that, he is still going after what he wants, it is even more commendable than, for example, Sheldon who doesn't even try by himself (Amy has to push him for that). Leonard keeps trying, he doesn't give up, and of course, he doesn't get it right a lot of the times, but he stands up and keeps going, even if he gets hurt in the process. And that's one thing that Leonard has in his advantage.

Well, Sheldon never asked for it though. Sheldon is to Amy as Penny is to Leonard. And Leonard's persistence can be a double edged sword. It's good he is always there for her, but it also lets him be taken for granted by her.

with that I do agree, but I think that is not only a fault on Leonard's side, it is also an error on Penny's side. Both of them are doing things wrong. But for some people, all the fault seems to fall on Leonard's side. Penny is very ungrateful and sometimes even cruel to Leonard, and that's not Leonard's fault. He makes himself vulnerable, is true, but the one who decides to use that against him is Penny.

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That being said, you're still asking irrelevant questions. You seem to imply that the views of those who like Sheldon with Penny because of his looks are somehow less valid. That's a very hypocritical view.

First of all, why are my questions "irrelevant"?

I only asked:

1. If the part of Sheldon were played by a less attractive actor, will he still be considered a better match for Penny? how much the actor looks' affect the perception of the fangirl?

2. How the personal preference of a fan for an actor affects the view on the character he is playing?

I'm sorry, but I defend myself, I'm not making acussations, I'm expressing genuine curiosity.

Didn't you read the part in my post where I said exactly the opposite thing to what you are acussing me of?

I clearly said that my personal view didn't make me better, and I didn't said that Jim's fangirls were bad, bad people and the only rotten apples of the fandom, so, no thanks, I don't accept your acussation of double standard.

I never said that those people's preference was less valid, neither I said they were shallow. You are the one bringing up that adjective.

I also weren't using Johnny as Leonard as the perfect example of unatractiveness. I know there are a lot of girls out there who fancy him, and another good part of female viewers who like Kunal, and that a good percentage of the guys who watch the show fancy Kaley, and that a lot of ShAmy-shippers fancy Jim too. I myself have a massive girl-crush on Mayim right now :icon_cheesygrin:, I never say to fancy an actor. to appreciate his/her beauty or charm was a bad, depicable thing, can you quote the part of my post where I said such thing?

The point is, it is not shallow to be attracted to good looks, it's actually a biological imperative to do so. What IS shallow is to be attracted ONLY to good looks while disregarding the whole package, even if the hero of your dreams is a pathetic evil human being with a puny deformed soul.

This was exactly the point of my "irrelevant" questions. I love Sheldon, I know that he is a good guy in the inside, but I'm aware that he is also a very, very flawed human being. The thing is, I noticed a lot of people out there tend to "forgive" him and igonre his faults much, much more than with other characters, many of those apologists I've come across, are, coincidentaly also Jim's fangirls.

I feel those fans who constantly blast Leonard (just to clarify: I'm not accusing YOU of this, by your posts I'm aware that you consider Leonard an horrible person, I got it, and while I don't agree, I respect your right to feel so) while cherry-picking only the nice qualities of Sheldon, are doing exactly what you mentioned here: disregarding the whole package.

As I've said before, I ship ShAmy, but I'm perfectly aware that, even when Sheldon cares for and respects Amy a lot (he had called her "the more similar person to him he has ever known", that's a big backhanded compliment, coming from him), but he still can be a real ass of a boyfriend. Because Sheldon is like that, he is selfish, egotist, self-centered, etc. His biggest saving grace is the obvious fact that he really wants to be with her, and that he makes efforts to be a better boyfriend, that's a good sign and that's why I support the couple.

In the other hand, going back on topic, why do shippers think that a man who constantly:

- Belittle's Penny's accomplishments

- Gets exasperated at her lack of education

- Is most of the time having trouble to communicate with her (saying that talking with her is like: "talking to a wall/dolphin/chimp")

- Doubts she can ever make it as an actress, pointing out her lack ot talent

- Constantly censors her active sexual life

- Thinks she is a freeloader and makes nasty remarks about her stealing their food, wifi, etc.

- Despises practically all the stuff she is interested in (shoes, shopping, romantic comedies, etc.)

- One of the only qualities he ever gives her credit for, is her supposed ability to exchange stuff for sexual favors

- Calls her "bottle blonde", makes fun of her upbringing.

- Enjoys pointing out her ignorance

- Most of the time he only goes to her when he needs something (to help him with something, to take care of him, to be his chauffer) There are exceptions, of course, but the times he goes to her without another reason are easily surpassed by the times he wants to get something in exchange.

...... Is the "right" man for her?

Please, don't tell me I'm making up the stuff above, everything is canon. I'm not denying the nice friendship they have developed over the years, I'm sure there are real affection between them, but that doesn't take away the fact that there's practically no common ground for a romantic relationship to develop, and that he is most of time hurtful and disrespectful of her. The only reason because Penny doesn't get that offended by all the times Sheldon had insulted her, is because she doesn't give that much gravitas to his opinion (as opposed as how hurt she was when Leonard laughed of her for believing in psychics)

I agree that the L/P relationship must be reworked to be a good one, Leonard is not the only one who has misteps (all the contrary :icon_wink:) I agree he must learn he deserves to be loved and also agree that it's awful that Penny is always in her high horse and takes him for granted, but I'd say that, all the differences that make Leonard and Penny a mismatched couple, would be multiplicated by 100 if we replace Leonard with Sheldon, and things get even worse if we remember they don't even have the catalyst of attraction. They don't feel attracted to each other, in any sense.

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why do shippers think that a man who constantly:

- Belittle's Penny's accomplishments

- Gets exasperated at her lack of education

- Is most of the time having trouble to communicate with her (saying that talking with her is like: "talking to a wall/dolphin/chimp")

- Doubts she can ever make it as an actress, pointing out her lack ot talent

- Constantly censors her active sexual life

- Thinks she is a freeloader and makes nasty remarks about her stealing their food, wifi, etc.

- Despises practically all the stuff she is interested in (shoes, shopping, romantic comedies, etc.)

- One of the only qualities he ever gives her credit for, is her supposed ability to exchange stuff for sexual favors

- Calls her "bottle blonde", makes fun of her upbringing.

- Enjoys pointing out her ignorance

- Most of the time he only goes to her when he needs something (to help him with something, to take care of him, to be his chauffer) There are exceptions, of course, but the times he goes to her without another reason are easily surpassed by the times he wants to get something in exchange.

...... Is the "right" man for her?

Oh, man, yes, all of this. Although they've developed a certain affection over the years, Sheldon has pure contempt for Penny - what kind of relationship would that be? And Penny has contempt for him too - he may be a super-genius, but he's socially retarded and very much lacking in common sense much of the time. Their relationship consists mostly of biting insults and thinly concealed disdain for one another, sprinkled here and there with some nice moments when they treat each other like worthwhile human beings. But a relationship?! Egad!

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@sarah7, your question is irrelevant and impossible to answer because Sheldon is played by Jim Parson - not by Brad Pitt, and not by any other actor, whether ugly or handsome or in between. Sheldon IS the creation of Jim Parson.

To ask, "would you like Sheldon if he weren't played by Jim", is like asking "would you still like ice-cream if it were made from salt pork"? :icon_eek:

I dunno, maybe yes, maybe no, but then it wouldn't be "ice-cream" anymore, would it! :icon_wink::icon_lol:

As for why I find the possibility of Sheldon with Penny intriguing, I wrote enough. The short version is: there's a spark and plenty of chemistry. I like the idea of "opposites" attracting. I believe that Sheldon and Penny are actually very close in the most important thing that matters - they are both very kind, generous and happy souls. They match. Most importantly, they are FUN and JOY to watch together. As a viewer of a TV show, I want to be entertained above all.


P.S. Btw, the above is NOT a criticism of Leonard. There's nothing wrong with being "average", especially when the bar is set so high by one's family background, advantages and expectations. But for Leonard this feeling of NOT measuring up to his family potential (compared to his siblings) means a double wammy on top of his mommy issues. He's an emotional unhappy mess as a result.

So, because of that, he is unworthy of being with the girl he loves? he should just give up and die alone?

No, it's just that he will go to any lengths to please Penny, he wants her at any cost, even if it means changing who he is as a person. It's like the old saying goes, nobody will love you if you don't love yourself, and Leonard does not love himself.

^ What he said ^

I never said Leonard wasn't "worthy" of Penny, just that he is NOT a good match for her. He's too damaged emotionally to love himself and to love Penny for who she is. What he's trying to get from Penny is not very different from her other boyfriends. Penny needs someone who will love her not for her looks and not just to fill a girlfriend-shaped void in his life.

Btw, Sheldon is not a perfect match either (hah!), but he's a better match than Leonard, and most importanly, it would be much more fun to watch.

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Penny should not go out with Sheldon because as all of his friends have said at one time or another, he's crazy, or he's batcrap crazy. He is the least likely of all of the males to successfully be in a emotional relationship with any other human being. He neither needs or wants a girlfriend, he wants either his mommy or a replacement for her. He cannot even stand to physically be in the same room with a couple that is arguing. How could he possibly be in any kind in a relationship with a female? No matter how good the relationship is, there is going to occasionally be disagreements. As a complete narcosis everything has to be done the way he wants it. He has to have the same foods from the same restaurants on the same night of the week. He has to do his laundry on the same night of the week. He is a germaphobe. He has told almost all of his friends at one time or the other when they are talking about their problems that he doesn't care because it doesn't affect him.

Sheldon, Howard, Raj, and Leonard all have issues. Of them, Leonard has the least and Sheldon the most. Sheldon is borderline needs to be put in an institution and Leonard is the closest to being normal. That is why it would be the hardest to understand if Penny went out with Sheldon. What's more, it is something that HE wouldn't want. He is a person who puts the most importance on intellect, and judging from the many comments he has made, he has nothing but contempt for hers.

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As for why I find the possibility of Sheldon with Penny intriguing, I wrote enough. The short version is: there's a spark and plenty of chemistry. I like the idea of "opposites" attracting. I believe that Sheldon and Penny are actually very close in the most important thing that matters - they are both very kind, generous and happy souls. They match. Most importantly, they are FUN and JOY to watch together. As a viewer of a TV show, I want to be entertained above all.


P.S. Btw, the above is NOT a criticism of Leonard. There's nothing wrong with being "average", especially when the bar is set so high by one's family background, advantages and expectations. But for Leonard this feeling of NOT measuring up to his family potential (compared to his siblings) means a double wammy on top of his mommy issues. He's an emotional unhappy mess as a result.

Sheldon is generous? Sheldon never does anything for anyone unless there is something in it for himself. He is one of the most selfish characters on TV. Having a good comedy rapport between Penny and Sheldon has nothing to do with putting the two characters together romantically. Their comedy is based on controversy and mutual antagonism. It does make for great comedy but it is incredibly wrong for romance. How can there be romance between two characters that have shown a total lack of respect for each other? It's ludicrous.

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As for why I find the possibility of Sheldon with Penny intriguing, I wrote enough. The short version is: there's a spark and plenty of chemistry. I like the idea of "opposites" attracting. I believe that Sheldon and Penny are actually very close in the most important thing that matters - they are both very kind, generous and happy souls. They match. Most importantly, they are FUN and JOY to watch together. As a viewer of a TV show, I want to be entertained above all.


P.S. Btw, the above is NOT a criticism of Leonard. There's nothing wrong with being "average", especially when the bar is set so high by one's family background, advantages and expectations. But for Leonard this feeling of NOT measuring up to his family potential (compared to his siblings) means a double wammy on top of his mommy issues. He's an emotional unhappy mess as a result.

Sheldon is generous? Sheldon never does anything for anyone unless there is something in it for himself. He is one of the most selfish characters on TV. Having a good comedy rapport between Penny and Sheldon has nothing to do with putting the two characters together romantically. Their comedy is based on controversy and mutual antagonism. It does make for great comedy but it is incredibly wrong for romance. How can there be romance between two characters that have shown a total lack of respect for each other? It's ludicrous.

So when Sheldon loaned Penny money in the Financial Permeability, when he helped her set up her business in the Work Song Nanocluster and when he overcame all of his fears etc to drive her to the hospital in the Adhesive Duck Deficiency, what was he getting out of it?

Both of them have been there for each other in ways that Leonard has not.

As Bigbang said it is not that Sheldon is perfect for her it is just that he is a better match for her than Leonard.

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It's true that being with a genius can be extremely taxing - geniuses overall are not the easiest people to be together. And yet, they do enter into successful loving relationships, and it's not necessary (and actually not recommended) for their mates to also be geniuses.

In Sheldon's eyes, almost everyone is not as smart as he is. He accepts it, and it doesn't bother him. Penny has the raw intelligence, she's not an idiot. Sheldon recognizes that Penny has emotional intelligence - something which he lacks. They complement each other.


Sheldon is generous? Sheldon never does anything for anyone unless there is something in it for himself.

So when Sheldon loaned Penny money in the Financial Permeability, when he helped her set up her business in the Work Song Nanocluster and when he overcame all of his fears etc to drive her to the hospital in the Adhesive Duck Deficiency, what was he getting out of it?

...also, besides helping Penny during her various crises, Sheldon very generously:

1) Saved Leonard's life

2) Saved Raj from being deported

3) Let his enemy Will Weaton win the game to comfort him

4) Offered his friends a chance to advance their careers by going to North Pole

5) Went to FBI to try to save Howard's security clearance

When push comes to shove, Sheldon showed he has the generousity of spirit. You can count on Sheldon to show kindness and decency when it truly matters.

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As for why I find the possibility of Sheldon with Penny intriguing, I wrote enough. The short version is: there's a spark and plenty of chemistry. I like the idea of "opposites" attracting. I believe that Sheldon and Penny are actually very close in the most important thing that matters - they are both very kind, generous and happy souls. They match. Most importantly, they are FUN and JOY to watch together. As a viewer of a TV show, I want to be entertained above all.


P.S. Btw, the above is NOT a criticism of Leonard. There's nothing wrong with being "average", especially when the bar is set so high by one's family background, advantages and expectations. But for Leonard this feeling of NOT measuring up to his family potential (compared to his siblings) means a double wammy on top of his mommy issues. He's an emotional unhappy mess as a result.

Sheldon is generous? Sheldon never does anything for anyone unless there is something in it for himself. He is one of the most selfish characters on TV. Having a good comedy rapport between Penny and Sheldon has nothing to do with putting the two characters together romantically. Their comedy is based on controversy and mutual antagonism. It does make for great comedy but it is incredibly wrong for romance. How can there be romance between two characters that have shown a total lack of respect for each other? It's ludicrous.

So when Sheldon loaned Penny money in the Financial Permeability, when he helped her set up her business in the Work Song Nanocluster and when he overcame all of his fears etc to drive her to the hospital in the Adhesive Duck Deficiency, what was he getting out of it?

Both of them have been there for each other in ways that Leonard has not.

As Bigbang said it is not that Sheldon is perfect for her it is just that he is a better match for her than Leonard.

Leonard "is there" everyday. When Penny has an emotional crisis, Leonard is there to give her moral support, never Sheldon. Leonard is there for Sheldon to take him where ever he needs to go. He takes him to work, the grocery store, the comic book store, and the model train store. Watch the episode where Penny took Sheldon to Disney Land and listen to Leonard telling Penny what to let Sheldon eat, what rides to go on, telling her to keep him away from Goofey, and so on. Then listen to him scolding Penny when they returned for letting him eat too much and getting sick. Leonard is there every day, not just once in a while.

As for Sheldon being generous with his money, it is because he doesn't care about money as crazy as that might sound, but he does allot of crazy things. See how generous he is about things that he DOES care about. What other character has on numerous occasions has expressed that if someone else has a problem and it doesn't affect him, HE DOESN"T CARE.

Sheldon was browbeaten into taken Penny to the Hospital and yes he did loan her money, money that he really doesn't care about. Two things in 5 years. It is a big deal when he does something nice for someone else because it is so out of character for him. He is an emotionally stunted narcissist. His relationship is more that of a very spoiled child and his mother. I have never seen the slightest indication of romantic interest between the two and as a matter of fact I have seen Penny express distaste and shock at the idea that anyone would have any romantic interest in Sheldon.

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I keep hearing about the "amazing" chemistry between Penny and Sheldon, and my question is "what chemistry"?

I think that it would make much more sense for Penny to go out with her vacuum cleaner. Her vacuum cleaner is always they for her, is reliable, it always works when she wants it to, it doesn't make any demands of her, it doesn't care how dirty her apartment is, has never said anything to her about how many men she has gone out with, it doesn't care where it sits in the apartment, it doesn't think that she is stupid, never asks her to sing soft kitty to it, and it is every bit as caring as Sheldon.

If we are going to find the most ridiculous hook-up for Penny, how could we possibly overlook her trusty Hoover? Everyone officially associated with the show has not only said it will not happen, but they have expressed not only confusion as to why anyone would want that to happen but on occasion have expressed their distaste at the idea of it happening.

As ALL of his friends have said, with the possible exception of Amy, Sheldon is crazy, or batcrap crazy. That is how the show wanted that character to appear. The only person who could ever be with him in a romantic way would have to be nearly as strange and crazy as he. Hence, the Amy character. Not only would Penny be repulsed by the idea of going out with Sheldon, Sheldon would be repulsed by the idea of a romantic connection with Penny.

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Sheldon has certainly shown that he does have basic human decency and isn't a completely selfish man. But Penny is a physical person, if you take the constant references to her many previous lovers seriously - how could she be happy with a man who doesn't like to be touched? All else aside, physical contact is important in (most) romantic relationships and I can't see her being happy with a germophobe for any length of time.

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Sheldon only loaned money to Penny because it's of no importance to him. If it meant anything to him he would not have done it! It was a practical decision, she needed it, he did not. This is how he works.

He is very giving when he can be, and it's one of the cool things about him. But Leonard has been regularly generous towards Penny from the beginning. We know he's been paying for her since they met and that she has taken advantage of this. Sheldon only loaned Penny money once, and he's been moaning about her use of wi-fi and eating their food ever since. If she was still asking for money I'm sure he would get very tetchy with her.

In the Adhesive Duck Deficiency, he wasn't that quick to help her! He had to be convinced! Any normal guy would help, no questions asked but that is what makes such good comedy with these two. There is no emotional bond and so it becomes so funny and compelling when they reach any kind of understanding. On the whole, I feel that Penny is way too conventional for Sheldon. That whole dumb blonde thing is not as appealing to nerds, as this show likes to suggest. Leonard is the character who would like to be more normal, and likes to date non nerd girls.

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It is that whole, 'would like to be more normal' characteristic that makes Leonard so unappealling. Why can't he just be happy with who he is as a person? Sheldon is happy with who he is.

Rick among others have pointed out examples of what they perceive to be Sheldon's immaturity including when he went back to Texas after the stupid little trick with the electric can opener. Frankly if I found out the person I believed to be my best friend had humiliated me in front of my peers I would want to be with the one person I knew could trust beyond a shadow of a doubt. In this case it was his mother. I know a lot of men a lot older than Sheldon who have an unhealthy bond with their mother. At least he does not live with his mother like Howard does. Most of the time he functions quite independently of her.

He also mentioned that Sheldon needed to be taken care of and have soft kitty sung to him when he was sick. I have to be honest and say I have not met a man who doesn't turn into a needy little baby when they are sick. This includes a lot of men a lot older than he is.

Sheldon is still in his twenties, in my personal experience most men do not mature until they are well over thirty. My comment about him being the most mature was simply referring to the fact that of the four of them he is the most emotionally independent and secure.

Yes he has lots of quirks and needs absolute order in his own little world, most true geniuses do.

His acts towards Penny and the others Bigbang mentioned were out of generosity. In every one of those cases a truly selfish person would have said, 'well @#$% you, you're on your own.' But Sheldon wouldn't do that, he comes through for his friends when they need him.

Leonard on the other hand, has given several examples of his less than trustworthy and less than reliable attitudes towards his friends and his girlfriend, many of which have already been mentioned both by myself and by Bigbang.

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It is that whole, 'would like to be more normal' characteristic that makes Leonard so unappealling. Why can't he just be happy with who he is as a person? Sheldon is happy with who he is.

Rick among others have pointed out examples of what they perceive to be Sheldon's immaturity including when he went back to Texas after the stupid little trick with the electric can opener. Frankly if I found out the person I believed to be my best friend had humiliated me in front of my peers I would want to be with the one person I knew could trust beyond a shadow of a doubt. In this case it was his mother. I know a lot of men a lot older than Sheldon who have an unhealthy bond with their mother. At least he does not live with his mother like Howard does. Most of the time he functions quite independently of her.

He also mentioned that Sheldon needed to be taken care of and have soft kitty sung to him when he was sick. I have to be honest and say I have not met a man who doesn't turn into a needy little baby when they are sick. This includes a lot of men a lot older than he is.

Sheldon is still in his twenties, in my personal experience most men do not mature until they are well over thirty. My comment about him being the most mature was simply referring to the fact that of the four of them he is the most emotionally independent and secure.

Yes he has lots of quirks and needs absolute order in his own little world, most true geniuses do.

His acts towards Penny and the others Bigbang mentioned were out of generosity. In every one of those cases a truly selfish person would have said, 'well @#$% you, you're on your own.' But Sheldon wouldn't do that, he comes through for his friends when they need him.

Leonard on the other hand, has given several examples of his less than trustworthy and less than reliable attitudes towards his friends and his girlfriend, many of which have already been mentioned both by myself and by Bigbang.

Running home to mommy because your friend supposedly betrayed you (skip the fact that Raj and Howard wanted to kill him), knowing allot of men older then Sheldon who have an unhealthy relationship with their mothers is not an excuse, it just means that there are other whimpy guys out there that you are familiar with.

Sheldon is NOT the most mature of the 4 guy, he is the LEAST mature. Once again go back to when Penny to him to Disney Land. He has the maturity of a 9 year old and I doubt if he could actually survive on his own.

Sheldon has said to his "friends" on numerous occasions that if it doesn't affect him, he DOESN"T CARE.

As for being untrustworthy, do you mean that if someone points out the flaws in your roommate agreement and times when you yourself have violated, you blackmail people so that they will sign a new one? Or how about your girlfriend follows all of the prerequisites of the girlfriend agreement that you made her sign, for you to go with her to a function, and on the day of it you refuse to go because you want to play video games with your friends? Let's not forget his wail of "the agreement is supposed to be to MY benefit!".

Sheldon is the most immature and frankly, crazy, guy in the group. Howard, Raj, Leonard, and Penny have ALL stated on numerous occasions that he is "nuts". Frankly most of the attacks against Leonard are mostly taking incidents and either exaggerating them to the point of being unable recognize them or the are imagined. As for Leonard being "untrustworthy" to his girlfriends, please give an example. If she wasn't his girlfriend at the time, it doesn't count. As for kissing the tattoo girl while he was having a long term relationship with Priya I would like to point out that he could have done more but stopped himself and then told Priya about it. Seems pretty good to me. Leonard is the most normal of the group.

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Confession: I am completely in love with Jim's appearance (among other things).

I'm not sure why this feeling could lead to anyone thinking that Sheldon should get together with Penny. Because they're both 'good-looking', and Leonard and Amy are both 'not good-looking' (by some conventional measures)?

That's so predictable. I find it fascinating that the couples here are paired irrespective of looks. And it's a deliberate move - Johnny and Mayim are both considerably attractive in real life. They are made to look nerdy and dowdy on the show. I like how the pairings consequently symbolize that love and emotional attachment goes beyond physical appearances.

Of all the ramifications of a relationship based show, this is one I agree with.

Touche!

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Five comments:

1. Funny, when I think of Sheldon, the last words that came to my mind are: "a very kind, generous and happy soul". Are you sure we aren't watching a different show?, aren't you talking of one that airs at Nickelodeon and "Sheldon" is somewhat squared and Yellow-skinned? ;)

2. Penny has "emotional intelligence"?

I'm sorry, but Penny is an emotional trainwreck! specially when it comes to her and her relationships. She is a nice and practical person, she has more experience in the real world than the boys, yes, but she doesn't know how to deal with feelings when she is directly involved. And her relationship with Leonard is the perfect example. The only reason because she can keep her cool when it comes to Sheldon and the other guys, is that she doesn't have feelings for them, the day she becomes romantically involved with someone, she is a complete mess.

3. Sheldon is not in his twenties, he must be 31 by now. But I really doubt his problems are because of age.

4. The so called "chemistry" that oftenly is used as a mandatory reason for this pairing (seriously, is waaaaaaay overused), once again, I'm gonna blame Jim Parsons (Jim, don't take it personal, it's something possitive, I love you, really! :icon_cheesygrin:) I mean, he seems to have good chemistry with virtually anyone. Pair Sheldon in a plot with Leonard, Howard, Raj, Amy, (even Bernie in the few scenes they share), Kripke, Wil, Stuart, some random extra, he always makes a click with them. During three seasons the only female to whom he was regularly related was Penny, and their scenes almost always involved some kind of confrontation, IMO, it's a too easy excuse to say there were "sparks" every time they were together.

Don't take me wrong, it's okay to like that kind of dynamics, but I don't think it's exclusive of them.

I, for instance, had always enjoyed more the Sheldon-Leonard interactions, needless to say that I currently love the ShAmy ones.

Jim is a charmer, that's it.

5.

...also, besides helping Penny during her various crises, Sheldon very generously:

1) Saved Leonard's life - Good, I won't deny it, but it was more common sense than plain "generosity"

2) Saved Raj from being deported - Yes, he did, good one, but he likes to be the hero, and then he took every opportunity he had to put him down, to remind him he had saved his ass and to disrespect him. That's not very "kind" of him.

3) Let his enemy Will Weaton win the game to comfort him - This is not an example of generosity, it's an example of his innocence. He felt simpathy for him, Wil used his obivous love for his grandma to manipulate him. Wil was not in danger or something, he foolishly let him win.

4) Offered his friends a chance to advance their careers by going to North Pole - He was not just letting them "advance", he didn't want to be alone with strangers, he was also getting something in exchange.

5) Went to FBI to try to save Howard's security clearance - After screwing things up before for him. This was not out of generosity, but out of guilt.

It's true, Sheldon does good things, but why the need to elevate him to the greatest heights? He is not a saint. For every good thing he does there are at least three selfish things he does in exchange.

One of the most recent examples of selflessness I remember from him is when he comforted Amy in Isolation Permutation. (Perhaps it was not mentioned because is a not too happy memory for the shippers in question here ;)) He had nothing to gain, it was something he doesn't like to do, but he were there for her.

That doesn't makes him a candidate for sainthood, though.

And a question:

And yet, they do enter into successful loving relationships, and it's not necessary (and actually not recommended) for their mates to also be geniuses.

Wow. :icon_eek:

And who exactly recommends that? (Someone should have told so to Marie and Pierre Curie)

@sarah7, your question is irrelevant and impossible to answer because Sheldon is played by Jim Parson - not by Brad Pitt, and not by any other actor, whether ugly or handsome or in between. Sheldon IS the creation of Jim Parson.

To ask, "would you like Sheldon if he weren't played by Jim", is like asking "would you still like ice-cream if it were made from salt pork"?:icon_eek:

I dunno, maybe yes, maybe no, but then it wouldn't be "ice-cream" anymore, would it! :icon_wink::icon_lol:

I agree that the actor is very, very important when it comes to the creation of a character, that was not the point.

I was just making some hypothetical questions, just to use our imaginations, to try to analyse a bit of the psychology behind a fandom phenomenon, to wonder "what if?"

I mean, you seem to find way too easy to imagine a romantic relationship that had NEVER been implied or hinted at the show (and even denied by the creators), who would think something like what I proposed would result so challenging?

As Bigbang said it is not that Sheldon is perfect for her it is just that he is a better match for her than Leonard.

facepalm.jpg

I was about to ask:

why.gif

Then I realized there was no use. After endless posts and arguing and discussion, and "Leonard is such an horrible jerk who deserves to die alone"/"Sheldon is a chivalrious white knight in disguise" declarations, we will end up again with the:

"Because it would be so freakin' CUTE!!!!! <3 <3 <3"

fangirl1.jpg

Whatever.

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Whatever.

Whatever indeed.

When you start using cutesey pictures and putdowns because you're losing an argument, it means one thing - too late, you already lost, buh-bye! :icon_wink::icon_lol:

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Sarah - great post. :)

Five comments:

(snip rest of awesome post)

THIS.

Thanks Pomita and Camille!

But nevermind me, I'm just losing an argument here. :icon_redface::icon_cheesygrin:

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