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@BigBang wasn't you the one who created a thread discussing the personality types to match them with the preferred fictional pairings, as an attempt of a quick psychological analysis of shipping? http://forum.the-big-bang-theory.com/thread-2466.html

yes, it was you, and yet, Sarah here posts a couple of questions and she is chastised for, not even directly, daring to try to understand the reasons behind some people's preferences.

I guess the huge crime of ignoring the "internet etiquette that limits the psychological analysis to the show" applies to Sarah but not you?

Don't you see the difference? :icon_eek:

What sarah is doing is trying to "analyze others" - a thing which cannot possibly ever be done successfully, because she doesn't know any of those people!

What I offered in that post (which btw I wrote as a reaction to a 'shipping war when posters devolved into insinuations and "analysis" of opposing faction, LOL!) was exactly the opposite - my point was, we can never know or assume why other people think or feel a certain way differently from us, because all people are fundamentally very different - their personalities, life experiences, preferences, etc. are very DIFFERENT.

So instead of trying to analyze others, I offered a chance to people to learn about various personality types, and at the same time come to accept that other people are just wired differently, and therefore they may form completely different opinions about the same show.

That old post of mine was an olive brach offering to shippers to stop flaming and analyzing each other, and to start accepting that we're all just very different, and it's okay to disagree about the same set of facts. :icon_cheesygrin:

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Guest I'm not dead Cheryl

@BigBang wasn't you the one who created a thread discussing the personality types to match them with the preferred fictional pairings, as an attempt of a quick psychological analysis of shipping? http://forum.the-big-bang-theory.com/thread-2466.html

yes, it was you, and yet, Sarah here posts a couple of questions and she is chastised for, not even directly, daring to try to understand the reasons behind some people's preferences.

I guess the huge crime of ignoring the "internet etiquette that limits the psychological analysis to the show" applies to Sarah but not you?

Don't you see the difference? :icon_eek:

What sarah is doing is trying to "analyze others" - a thing which cannot possibly ever be done successfully, because she doesn't know any of those people!

What I offered in that post (which btw I wrote as a reaction to a 'shipping war when posters devolved into insinuations and "analysis" of opposing faction, LOL!) was exactly the opposite - my point was, we can never know or assume why other people think or feel a certain way differently from us, because all people are fundamentally very different - their personalities, life experiences, preferences, etc. are very DIFFERENT.

So instead of trying to analyze others, I offered a chance to people to learn about various personality types, and at the same time come to accept that other people are just wired differently, and therefore they may form completely different opinions about the same show.

That old post of mine was an olive brach offering to shippers to stop flaming and analyzing each other, and to start accepting that we're all just very different, and it's okay to disagree about the same set of facts. :icon_cheesygrin:

Sarah was not trying to "analyze ALL" the shippers, but mainly pointing out that SOME of them revert to much to the Leonard bashing and Sheldon idolatry, that, let's be honest, is fairly abundant on this forum. We are all different, but, nevertheless, patterns do come up, specially on this thread, called "Penny should go out with Sheldon" where 80% of the posts are about bashing/defending Leonard for being unworthy/worthy of Penny's love.

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Sarah was not trying to "analyze ALL" the shippers

She shouldn't be analyzing ANY. It's not her place to come up with theories on WHY other fans may like or dislike a certain character or pairing. Is this basic fact of internet etiquette so hard to grasp? :icon_eek:

If you want to talk about patterns, then the patterns which keep reappearing on this particular forum are Lenny shippers who try to analyze other people instead of the show and who keep posting insinuations and assumptions about the opposing faction.

You people seriously need to post on Television Without Pity boards of old. The moderators there would quickly whip you into shape. "Analyze the show, never analyze other posters" - or be instantly banned. A very good and wise rule. :icon_lol:

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Guest I'm not dead Cheryl

Sarah was not trying to "analyze ALL" the shippers

If you want to talk about patterns, then the patterns which keep reappearing on this particular forum are Lenny shippers who try to analyze other people instead of the show and who keep posting insinuations and assumptions about the opposing faction.

You Lenny people seriously need to post on Television Without Pity boards of old. The moderators there would quickly whip you into shape. "Analyze the show, never analyze other posters" - or be instantly banned. A very good and wise rule. :icon_lol:

Well, ta-da you just analyzed "Lenny shippers" right there. :icon_lol:

btw: neither Sarah or myself are "Lenny" shippers (just read our posts, thank you). I am actually one who thinks Penny needs to be alone (she needs to find out what she wants before attempting a relationship again with anyone) and that Leonard should be with someone who loves him and values him for what he is, and I think Penny is not that person. It's all in my posts. Your "go to" reaction very often tends to point with the finger screaming "Lenny shipper!" as to try invalidate the other persons opinion is very unpolite because a) a lot of the people that you call "Lennies" don't even ship that pairing and B) you imply that their opinion is not valid because they are "Lennies" and c) for being someone who claims to want to bring "peace" to the shippers you do spend a fair share of time on attacking Lennie shippers, whether they are or you think they are.

And second, you cannot apply the rules of another board on this one, mainly because it is a different board, so that point is moot.

And that's my last about it, because I don't want to turn this thread into a "shipper battle" thanks.

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What has this thread devolved to? A place to psychoanalyze each other?

Lots of Shenny shippers bash Leonard, but I'd say just as many Lenny shippers/Shamy shippers/non-shippers/etc. bash Shenny shippers, based on my observations. What's worse, accusing a fictional character of being sex-obsessed, whiny, a douche, etc. or accusing an entire group of human beings of being delusional, sick and pathetic? Come on, people. It's a TV show, FFS.

There's nothing "wrong" with Shenny shippers for shipping Sheldon and Penny, just as there's nothing "wrong" with Lenny shippers for shipping Leonard and Penny. That there are people in this thread implying otherwise (on both sides of the argument) is ridiculous.

Different strokes is what it boils down to.

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Please don't drag up the misguided posts from the past, which have no doubt been deleted by the moderator. There have been arguments, not too long ago but things have been much calmer up until this point. And I appreciate that everyone is making an effort to keep things more civil.

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If you want to talk about patterns, then the patterns which keep reappearing on this particular forum are Lenny shippers who try to analyze other people instead of the show and who keep posting insinuations and assumptions about the opposing faction.

You people seriously need to post on Television Without Pity boards of old. The moderators there would quickly whip you into shape. "Analyze the show, never analyze other posters" - or be instantly banned. A very good and wise rule. :icon_lol:

Well, ta-da you just analyzed "Lenny shippers" right there. :icon_lol:

No, I didn't. "Analyzing someone" means assuming and explaining WHY the other person likes a character or a 'ship. For example: "Shennies like Sheldon 'cause they have hots for Jim", "Lennys like Leonard 'cause they route for a fellow loser", "You only like / dislike him 'cause you're stupid and didn't finish high school", etc. :icon_lol:

a) a lot of the people that you call "Lennies" don't even ship that pairing and B) you imply that their opinion is not valid because they are "Lennies" and c) for being someone who claims to want to bring "peace" to the shippers you do spend a fair share of time on attacking Lennie shippers, whether they are or you think they are.

a) If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's unlikely a unicorn. Of course, I may be mistaken.

B) Not true. IMHO, there's nothing wrong with liking or disliking any pairing.

c) Asking people to stick with analyzing the show is not "attacking" them.

And second, you cannot apply the rules of another board on this one, mainly because it is a different board, so that point is moot.

The point is very far from moot, it's the accepted etiquette for polite and enjoyable discourse. I'm surprised we even need rules, it's common sense - don't try to guess and imply why others like or dislike things.

Just because this board may be lightly moderated doesn't mean it should be a free-for-all.


I'm a Leldon shipper. Leonard + Sheldon FTW!!!!

I'm a Lendon shipper of "they should be BFF" variety.

Sheldon and Leonard have chemistry, they play well off each other, their scenes are fun to watch. They also complement each other - Leonard's "normal" is a foil to Sheldon's "crazy genius". Leonard is much more evolved socially and can teach Sheldon how to interpret the emotional clues of others and how to behave in a socially accepted manner, while Sheldon is a much happier person and can teach Leonard some self-acceptance and being happy with who you are.

To continue to ship their friendship, however, I need to see remourse from Leonard for betraying Sheldon on the North Pole. A barest smidgen of regret and remourse would be enough.

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The reason I'm not trying to say anything on the topic of this thread, by the way, is because I really feel it's no use. Shippers won't be argued with. :icon_confused:

But is is our duty to witness to those who don't believe. We must bring them to the light of truth. How else will they be saved?

They won't. Because so many people subscribe to a different, alternate-universe definition of 'truth'. ;)

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Funny. This thread is about Penny going out with Sheldon. That being the case the people who think that the whole idea is bizarre are going to express their reasons for why they think the way that they do. That means that they are going to bring up things like the episode where Penny took Sheldon to Disneyland, and how she treated him and he acted like a small child. People who are against the idea are going to bring up all of Sheldon's shortcomings as they see it.

So why the constant return to attacks on Leonard? Just what does he have to do with Penny going out with Sheldon?

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I was speaking about how many people continuously ignore the scene where Penny has returned from taking Sheldon to Disneyland

That scene just validates everything I said about Sheldon before, and it highlights especially well how ALIKE (and childlike) were my dead friend and Sheldon.

And btw, we did discuss this scene already, and no, there's nothing "perverse" in Penny getting together with Sheldon.

She's not his mother, she is not his sister, they are not related, and Sheldon is not a child, he's a fully grown man. The whole point of potential Shenny relationship (for me, at least) is to see Sheldon GROW UP.

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I honestly can't see Amy being a permanent character in the show

Since we can't see the future (and we absolutely don't believe in Psychics either), we can't know for sure which actors will stick to the show until its final episode, specially if it is dragged for too long.

Even Jim had expressed in several interviews he wouldn't like to continue for years and years doing the same thing, but, personally and selfishly, I hope and pray for Mayim/Amy to stay until the very end, and, until now, it seems quite probable.

Both, she and Melissa are from some time now included and named as 'official cast' of TBBT, according to taping reports, they started to be introduced along the original five this season, the producers always speak enthusiastically about them, Jim is also very vocal about how much he likes the ShAmy storyline and how much he adores to work with Mayim, etc. Needless to say I agree very much with him! :)

(I hope what is written above is correct enough to be, at least, understandable)

Wich leads me to:

Also what the heck is adecuate or renegated? I have google both words and come up blank. I like to think I have a fairly good command of the English language but you have stumped me a couple of times Sarah.

Adequate and relegate.

Thank you SydNC for clarifying my mistakes. I know it's not an excuse, but non-native speaker here! :icon_redface:

Actually, with "renegates" I was trying to mean "to grumble about", my error was to try to make a verb out of the idea of being a "renegade".

Perhaps my lousy use of the language is what is attracting the animosity, they may not be understanding me correctly (or maybe if they were, it would be worse! :icon_eek:)

@sarah7 - LOL, it's you who are getting terribly offended here, honey. :icon_lol:

Me? :question:

Oh!, yeah, like when I was losing the argument!, right?

Silly me!

Noted :icon_wink:

All I did was 1) point out (very gently) that the customary internet etuquette limits the psychological analysis to the show and 2) demonstrate (also very gently) why is it that analyzing fellow posters is something we should all refrain from doing.

Oh!, so this is when you are being calm and gentle!

My apologies! I mistook it for discomfort and annoyance. As you can see, I'm quite slow the last days. I keep failing at seeing exactly WHERE or WHEN I am analyzing fellow posters, insulting them, acussing them of stuff and so on.

Just out of curiosity, I checked the forum rules again:

http://forum.the-big-bang-theory.com/thread-3.html

Let me see. I don't remember swearing, trying to sell something, linked to external sites. Ok, that pic of Mr. Bean I posted was quite suggestive, but I wouldn't call it "pornographic". Most important, I don't recall at all having attacked personally any of the members of this board.

In the other hand, I been told that my attempts of analysis are putting me in danger of "making an ass of myself" and that they are "stupid" and "irrelevant", but I'm not complaining (that much :icon_wink:) because apparently all that is just a gentle intent to make me go back to my senses and stop insulting people.

Anyway, I don't see a rule that directly forbid the analysis, not of the show, neither of the audience, but now I'm learning it's an unwritten rule of the highest taste. (I guess Social Psychologists must absolutely refrain to post and lurk here, you know, to avoid hurting sensibilities)

I remember that months ago (Please, read the following part in a Leonard's "Yeah, I'm bad, but he is worse!" fashion..... wait, perhaps the reason because I don't loathe Leonard is because I'm a disgusting, short, horny jerk like him!, wait again, am I allowed to analyze myself?) there were several posts outright saying that the new audience of the show consisted of overwheighted, bored, middle aged ladies who were the only ones who liked the new corny direction of the show, that those who like the show as it is right now are conformists and of lower intellect. There were also other kind of posts that used to viciously attack in a regular basis the physical appearence of some of the cast members.

I wonder if the "Netiquette police" was as vigilant back then as they are being right now. Probably those offenses weren't as terrible as mine. :icon_redface:

@BigBang - for all your virtuous decrying of animosity, as someone who has been lurking and reading, I can't say I have noticed you analyzing/attacking/insulting the opposite side one whit less than the 'Lenny shippers'.

No Pomita, no! refrain from commiting the same felonies and mistakes as me. Those are not insults, those are olive branches and gentle attempts to go back to the REAL AND TRUE meaning and purpose of this board.

@Sarah7 Your posts were great, and I must say I agree with most of your points wholeheartedly.

But it is pointless to argue with some people. Believe me, I learnt it the hard way. Some people just won't see it. but, paraphrasing Sheldon "whether they see it or not, is irrelevant".

Sursonica, thank you for supporting me. You can guess I totally love that quote and I think it speaks absolute truth :icon_wink:

Now, if you all allow me, I'll go to meditate over my sins, insults and abhorrent (hope it's spelled correctly) use of the English language :icon_cry:

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So why the constant return to attacks on Leonard? Just what does he have to do with Penny going out with Sheldon?

Well, technically Leonard is Sheldon's best friend, isn't he? Or the closest thing Sheldon has to a best friend? It would be a really, really awkward situation, to say the least, to go out with your best friend's ex, particularly when you know the guy is still in love with her (whether Leonard admits it or not). So without going into why one of them might be good for her where the other isn't, at the very least it would create a huge amount of tension and probably mess up all three friendships (and the show's dynamics).

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I remember that months ago there were several posts outright saying that the new audience of the show consisted of overwheighted, bored, middle aged ladies who were the only ones who liked the new corny direction of the show, that those who like the show as it is right now are conformists and of lower intellect. There were also other kind of posts that used to viciously attack in a regular basis the physical appearence of some of the cast members.

I wonder if the "Netiquette police" was as vigilant back then as they are being right now. Probably those offenses weren't as terrible as mine. :icon_redface:

Yes, sarah, I was.

You can go back to those posts and you'll see I was actively trying to stop them. And just like I made fun of you in this thread, back then I was making fun of those posts who attacked the new audience or the cast.

Call me "netiquette police", whatever, I don't care. I don't like seeing real people insulted. You can dish whatever you want about any fictional character (they are fictional, LOL!), but lay off real people. My two cents.

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So why the constant return to attacks on Leonard? Just what does he have to do with Penny going out with Sheldon?

Well, technically Leonard is Sheldon's best friend, isn't he? Or the closest thing Sheldon has to a best friend? It would be a really, really awkward situation, to say the least, to go out with your best friend's ex, particularly when you know the guy is still in love with her (whether Leonard admits it or not). So without going into why one of them might be good for her where the other isn't, at the very least it would create a huge amount of tension and probably mess up all three friendships (and the show's dynamics).

I agree that if Sheldon did take out Penny it would create a huge amount of tension between Sheldon and Leonard. That doesn't explain that attacks on Leonard in a thread that is about Penny and Sheldon going out.

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It is becoming glaringly obvious that those who are in favor of Penny and Sheldon being together refuse to address the episode where Penny took Sheldon to Disneyland. Upon their return Sheldon acted like a small child while Leonard and Penny acted like adults/parents.

This one episode epitomizes just why Sheldon and Penny should not go out and there is no realistic argument as to why they should after viewing this scene.

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Rick you mention the disneyland episode multiple times as the perfect demonstration of why Penny and Sheldon could never be a couple. At face value I complete agree but I have to add it was that particular episode that the show lost me as a fan. Simply because a) it was too ludicrous to be credited and B) it is a plot that has been used on multiple other sitcoms, where the warring exes become battling custodial parents of their friends (that 70's show, friends and others that escape me). Therefore I am not sure I would be so keen to paint this as a Big Bang character definition. It is simply a comedy ploy that has already been done to death. It was ridiculous to the extreme, it was this infantilization of Sheldon that really destroyed my love of the show.

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Rick you mention the disneyland episode multiple times as the perfect demonstration of why Penny and Sheldon could never be a couple. At face value I complete agree but I have to add it was that particular episode that the show lost me as a fan. Simply because a) it was too ludicrous to be credited and B) it is a plot that has been used on multiple other sitcoms, where the warring exes become battling custodial parents of their friends (that 70's show, friends and others that escape me). Therefore I am not sure I would be so keen to paint this as a Big Bang character definition. It is simply a comedy ploy that has already been done to death. It was ridiculous to the extreme, it was this infantilization of Sheldon that really destroyed my love of the show.

The plot may have been used in other shows about a couple breaking up and having a custodial disagreement over the friends, but in those shows the "friends" did not act as though they were small children, even to the point of being told it was bedtime. I don't believe that any other show demonstrated so distinctly who was the adult and who was the child. Because of that, to me the thought of Penny and Sheldon getting together is ludicrous. The characterization of the Penny and Sheldon relationship being that of an adult/mother and a child has been re-enforced on multiple occasions. The multiple times that Sheldon has asked Penny to sing soft kitty to him is probably the most frequently occurring example.

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^ I'm not sure I follow. I love Sheldon, and he's definitely my favorite character, but I'll be the first to say he acts like a child. That's exactly why I dislike the direction the Shamy relationship seems to be taking.

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None. I don't think Sheldon should be in a relationship. It would have been fine if their relationship remained "one of the mind," but Amy is clearly interested in sex, and it seems the writers are considering making their relationship physical.

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What I meant was, they're in the beginning stages of moving in that direction but haven't explicitly taken it to that level, but your sarcasm was totally needed and appreciated.

I shouldn't expect much from someone who generalizes about entire groups of people.

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Funny. This thread is about Penny going out with Sheldon. That being the case the people who think that the whole idea is bizarre are going to express their reasons for why they think the way that they do. That means that they are going to bring up things like the episode where Penny took Sheldon to Disneyland, and how she treated him and he acted like a small child. People who are against the idea are going to bring up all of Sheldon's shortcomings as they see it.

So why the constant return to attacks on Leonard? Just what does he have to do with Penny going out with Sheldon?

Because the #1 obstacle to Penny dating anyone besides Leonard is Leonard. For her to date Sheldon, or anyone, step 1 is to remove Leonard. For some, Penny shouldn't date Sheldon because the idea is ridiculous to them. For others, it's because she is meant to be with Leonard.

So, that's why some people bash Leonard. It's like if I want a cat, I need to get rid of the dog first.

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