Penny should go out with Sheldon

[BlackWhiteRose]

I´m still puzzles how this Penny/Sheldon "realtionship" idea came up from some people in the first place `cause there was never ever any clue for a realtionship between them. So I understand why the writers (and some of the actors) were puzzled too. I mean the writers don`t write chinese  when it comes to these two or something that you can interprete the wrong way but things got interprete the wrong way and I have no idea how thats even possible. I`m  just puzzled about that.

The only one who would go out with Penny  in Season 1 and 2 was Howard Wolowitz and maybe Raj but more Howard ´cause Wolowitz was really hitting on Penny in the pilot but thats just a side note.

Leonard was the one who made the Penny/Sheldon friendship happen so thanks to Leonard on this!

But I have no problem at all with people shipping them (Penny/Sheldon) I´m just confused about it. That´s all I have to say.

Edited June 6, 2013 by BlackWhiteRose

[gaqo]

Gago,

 

Your point of view would be more understandable if you could show why your interpretation of TBBT "fantasies" is truer than that offered by the shows creators. You make statements as if they are facts that are intuitively obvious, such as Leonard is a transitional relationship for Penny. That's counter to not only what is shown on screen but also what has been said by the artists involved.

 

You do not use modifiers like, "in my humble opinion" or "I think this can be interpreted as". You make statements as if all should be able to see the ultimate truth with out further thought.

 

Maybe a little less certainty is in order.

Point taken. Let me state. I have no original ideas of my own. Ideas merely flow through me. I am part of the matrix.

[gaqo]

"Don't attempt to interact with me again?" What arrogance! You're posting on a public forum. Anyone here can respond to anyone they like, and it's obvious that you're getting an assload of flack because of your arrogance and the pseudo-intellectual bullcrap you toss around. If you don't like it, then do something about your attitude, otherwise you're going to keep getting dumped on by people who don't like your attitude and aren't falling for your crap.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S3 using Tapatalk

When I was asked where the ideas were coming from, I answered by suggesting that he start by reading 'The Open Work'. I read it twenty years ago. Since then I have read more books than I can remember. That's where the ideas are coming from(I also devoured the UNI library). For the record, I am arrogant. But the counter arguments are frankly, petty, and uninformed (thats why I say don't interact with me, there's no content to what he says!). General statement> If you really have nothing better to do than 'bait' shennys, read a book! 

[phantagrae]

When I was asked where the ideas were coming from, I answered by suggesting that he start by reading 'The Open Work'. I read it twenty years ago. Since then I have read more books than I can remember. That's where the ideas are coming from(I also devoured the UNI library). For the record, I am arrogant. But the counter arguments are frankly, petty, and uninformed (thats why I say don't interact with me, there's no content to what he says!). General statement> If you really have nothing better to do than 'bait' shennys, read a book! 

 

I'm sorry, but what you're saying here is really presumptuous.  You think you know something about the people comment here when you really don't.

I've read a lot of books, too.  And I'm sure Tensor has as well.

So what?

 

That doesn't mean that the points you've been trying to make aren't full of sophistry.

 

Just because the counterpoints to your points disagree with you doesn't mean that they are petty or uninformed.  You chose to attack him personally (saying that his posts don't seem to match up to the age of the person in his avatar, etc.--WTH?) rather than just own up to your own mistakes or foolish assumptions.

 

Yes, you are arrogant--and that undermines the validity of your arguments because you assume you're right when there's no proof that you are.

[phantagrae]

He asked me for evidence, where my ideas came from, I suggested a book which would be a good starting point. A wise fifty seven year old man, upon recieving my answer , may have at least looked at that book. I don't believe a man of that age would use The Hobbit and Superman to make a point. Really with your mind, have you got nothing better to do?

 

And you?  Don't you have anything better to do?  We're all here to discuss a TV show and it's impossible to tell what else we all have to do beyond this.  What we do beyond this site is immaterial.

 

Just because you suggested a certain book doesn't mean that the conclusions you came to in regard to the evidence within the show is not more than sophistry--"a method of argumentation that seems clever but is actually flawed or dishonest"

 

You can site all the books in the world, but if that doesn't mean that they relate to the argument at hand--the validity of someone's fantasy about the intent of the writers (and actors) versus the actual intent.

All the fantasy in the world cannot erase the writer's original intent, especially in this case where they are telling a specific story in words and pictures.

If it was a sculpture with no title or a piece of music with no words, and if there was no stated meaning or intent on the part of the artist, then, yes, the observer can and will draw their own conclusions.

 

But when it comes to theater, which is what this is, there are specific words and body language and actions on the part of the writers and actors that are telling a fairly simple, straightforward story.  When it comes to the relationships in the show--as in, who is meant to be paired with whom--they are very specfic and have made it very clear.

 

So, yes, you're free to fantasize, but that doesn't mean that the fantasy, or alternate interpretation is valid.

[wannamaker]

Well gaqo hope you are not going to bully me...because I do ECO ECO ECO in bed  however... haven't the faintest idea why you're placing ECO in this thread... where Penny should go out with Sheldon...what's the meaning? :D

[gaqo]

And you?  Don't you have anything better to do?  We're all here to discuss a TV show and it's impossible to tell what else we all have to do beyond this.  What we do beyond this site is immaterial.

 

Just because you suggested a certain book doesn't mean that the conclusions you came to in regard to the evidence within the show is not more than sophistry--"a method of argumentation that seems clever but is actually flawed or dishonest"

 

You can site all the books in the world, but if that doesn't mean that they relate to the argument at hand--the validity of someone's fantasy about the intent of the writers (and actors) versus the actual intent.

All the fantasy in the world cannot erase the writer's original intent, especially in this case where they are telling a specific story in words and pictures.

If it was a sculpture with no title or a piece of music with no words, and if there was no stated meaning or intent on the part of the artist, then, yes, the observer can and will draw their own conclusions.

 

But when it comes to theater, which is what this is, there are specific words and body language and actions on the part of the writers and actors that are telling a fairly simple, straightforward story.  When it comes to the relationships in the show--as in, who is meant to be paired with whom--they are very specfic and have made it very clear.

 

So, yes, you're free to fantasize, but that doesn't mean that the fantasy, or alternate interpretation is valid.

Thank you, that's all I'm asking for. That we are free to interpret, imagine, fantasize about whatever we choose, without any one else trying to control us. I actually think there's alot more going on under the surface of this debate. To do with actors, showing through characters. Why people relate to certain characters, and certain pairings. It's been said about Spielberg's films, that he trys to recreate the ideal of a happy family. I think if the writers had explored the S/P platonic relationship, it may have been ground breaking, but they chose to go for a traditional conservative coupling. So we'll never know. What did you think of those early scenes between S/P?

[gaqo]

Well gaqo hope you are not going to bully me...because I do ECO ECO ECO in bed  however... haven't the faintest idea why you're placing ECO in this thread... where Penny should go out with Sheldon...what's the meaning? :D

You'll have to read the post I made near the end of page 47. Essentially once the art work/cultural object has been given over to an audience, it is up to them how they interpret it. Obviously everyone interprets everthing in their own personal way, and the creator has no control over that. Ho Hum! 

[sarah7]

Thank you, that's all I'm asking for. That we are free to interpret, imagine, fantasize about whatever we choose, without any one else trying to control us. I actually think there's alot more going on under the surface of this debate. To do with actors, showing through characters. Why people relate to certain characters, and certain pairings. It's been said about Spielberg's films, that he trys to recreate the ideal of a happy family. I think if the writers had explored the S/P platonic relationship, it may have been ground breaking, but they chose to go for a traditional conservative coupling. So we'll never know. What did you think of those early scenes between S/P?

 

Hardly so.

I'm a bit confused, because you seem to support a romantic plot for them, but then you use the word "platonic", well, the S/P relationship is a friendship and IS platonic, and continues to be explored by the writers. I don't know what you are meaning here, but I'm going with the idea you mean "romance", so then, sorry, it's not about shipping preferences, but a romantic storyline between characters of the type of S/P is the least thing that could be categorized as "ground breaking", the opposites attract, love-hate relationships it's a combination/storyline that had been done a gazillion times before in every existing media, some of their shippers themselves admit that and even think it's one of their reasons for validation.

 

In my humble opinion, a completely or mostly asexual, happy and fullfiling romantic relationship portrayed in TV, as Shamy once seemed to be (and still have a tiny little potential to be), THAT would had been ground-breaking.

Edited June 6, 2013 by sarah7

[BangerMain]

Hardly so.

I'm a bit confused, because you seem to support a romantic plot for them, but then you use the word "platonic", well, the S/P relationship is a friendship and IS platonic, and continues to be explored by the writers. I don't know what you are meaning here, but I'm going with the idea you mean "romance", so then, sorry, it's not about shipping preferences, but a romantic storyline between characters of the type of S/P is the least thing that could be categorized as "ground breaking", the opposites attract, love-hate relationships it's a combination/storyline that had been done a gazillion times before in every existing media, some of their shippers themselves admit that and even think it's one of their reasons for validation.

 

In my humble opinion, a completely or mostly asexual, happy and fulfilling romantic relationship portrayed in TV, as Shamy once seemed to be (and still have a tiny little potential to be), THAT would had been ground-breaking.

 

I'm glad you brought that up. In my opinion, the most unique relationship that has been shown on TBBT and almost anytime on TV has been the early Sheldon/Amy. I can't think of any other like it in TV history. I remember how proud Chuck Lorre was of it's conception and execution and Lorre's a veteran of nearly 30 years of sitcoms, plus a historian of the genre.

 

Sheldon and Penny were written to be impossible, the shows creative staff made them that way but TBBT writers literally designed a relationship for two asexual people. Now that's professional level creativity!

Edited June 6, 2013 by BangerMain

[Nogravitasatall]

I'm glad you brought that up. In my opinion, the most unique relationship that has been shown on TBBT and almost anytime on TV has been the early Sheldon/Amy. I can't think of any other like it in TV history. I remember how proud Chuck Lorre was of it's conception and execution and Lorre's a veteran of nearly 30 years of sitcoms, plus a historian of the genre.

Sheldon and Penny were written to be impossible, the shows creative staff made them that way but TBBT writers literally designed a relationship for two asexual people. Now that's professional level creativity!

Maybe another take at this is that they tried to write sex out of a relationship between a man and a woman and the "When Harry met Sally" factor sucked them back in. That they had no interest in sex with each other or anyone else was unique and maybe sadly lost in terms of creative effort. It was courageous, but doomed.

That two individuals were what we would categorise in Australian terms as "mates", as in "mateship", where two have a selfless and sexless love for each other, intra-gender, is not so uncommon on screen but usually not a feature in sitcom. It does get play in war movies and maybe is humorously mocked a little when the Church of Sheldon started after paintball. It's there in combat, I understand. I can't recall it ever appearing as a feature where there was even a chance of sex. It always resolves to that. Even in odd pairings like "Harold and Maude".

I suspect that Shamy made more people happy on a net basis. If so then it has greater utility, but is definitely less artful. Perhaps there will be a BBC effort.

Edited June 7, 2013 by Nogravitasatall

[djvang]

I'm glad you brought that up. In my opinion, the most unique relationship that has been shown on TBBT and almost anytime on TV has been the early Sheldon/Amy. I can't think of any other like it in TV history. I remember how proud Chuck Lorre was of it's conception and execution and Lorre's a veteran of nearly 30 years of sitcoms, plus a historian of the genre.

 

Sheldon and Penny were written to be impossible, the shows creative staff made them that way but TBBT writers literally designed a relationship for two asexual people. Now that's professional level creativity!

I agree. It was refreshing to see characters who weren't obsessed with dating and romance and sex and were perfectly content with their lives. Now THAT was unique. That's why it's so disappointing to me to see the writers now sending Sheldon & Amy down the same path as everyone else. They were being mocked by the others in the last episode for not having sex like the "cool" couples are. It may be a lot slower progression but we all know what the end result will be.

Edited June 7, 2013 by djvang

[Moonbase]

They abandoned the asexual thing almost straight away by changing Amy's motives. It would have been more original leaving them as friends. Or not giving him a girlfriend at all.

The fact is Sheldon has to give Amy sex eventually she will leave him. There is no way they can avoid this now. Quite frankly the story they are telling creeps the hell out of me. The spanking was just awful!

Edited June 7, 2013 by Moonbase

[djvang]

They abandoned the asexual thing almost straight away by changing Amy's motives. It would have been more original leaving them as friends. Or not giving him a girlfriend at all.

The fact is Sheldon has to give Amy sex eventually she will leave him. There is no way they can avoid this now. Quite frankly the story they are telling creeps the hell out of me. The spanking was just awful!

The scene in the bar where Amy saw the good looking guy and said "WHOOOO!" was THE moment when the show changed.  It was her sexual awakening <shudder> and the moment she stopped being funny and turned creepy.

 

The spanking scene was repulsive. But it brought squeals of delight from most of the audience.

 

 

But getting back to the original topic -  no, I don't thnk Penny should go out with Sheldon.

[ajond]

The scene in the bar where Amy saw the good looking guy and said "WHOOOO!" was THE moment when the show changed.  It was her sexual awakening <shudder> and the moment she stopped being funny and turned creepy.

 

The spanking scene was repulsive. But it brought squeals of delight from most of the audience.

 

 

But getting back to the original topic -  no, I don't thnk Penny should go out with Sheldon.

 

Why would the sexual awakening of Amy (if that's what it was) be creepy. I think it has more to do with the filling out of the character and the change her friends and her environment has brought.Why would you shudder.

[phantagrae]

I think that the intent from the first episode of S4 was to put Sheldon and Amy together as boyfriend/girlfriend, but to get them there through a completely different path because of the completely different type of people they were.

 

That Sheldon insisted on protesting that she was not his girlfriend was the first sign that they were going there.

 

It's been glacial, which is appropriate for the stunted development of both of the characters.  The slow pace of the sexual/physical aspect of their relationship speaks to Sheldon's pre-adolescent approach or attitude.

 

As for Amy's "Hoo!" moment, after that one episode, it's not like she was jumping on Sheldon--in fact, she tried taking his hand to see if she got the same kind of hormonal reaction she'd gotten from shaking hands with Zach and the answer was no.

The whole show didn't change in that one moment and why should she not be allowed to have the tiniest glimmer of sexuality (and it was pretty dang tiny)?

 

Why should Sheldon and Amy eventually becoming physical (and it's happening in such tiny baby steps I don't understand how people think that Amy is going to DEMAND!!!! sex from him) be so repulsive?  They're no less human than the others, and they never were.  They're simply inexperienced and naïve and repressed, but neither of them is asexual.

[Moonbase]

Why would the sexual awakening of Amy (if that's what it was) be creepy. I think it has more to do with the filling out of the character and the change her friends and her environment has brought.Why would you shudder.

 

You are not a fan of Sheldon. The biggest change, I have seen in the last 2 years is the drop in Sheldon's popularity. He used to be universally loved. Now there are a lot of people who would care if he were dating a donkey. 

Edited June 7, 2013 by Moonbase

[rickfromillinois]

Sheldon and Amy's relationship may be moving forward at a snails pace, but considering the characters, how could it be otherwise?   How unbelievable would it be if they had sex on the 3rd date?   I don't find it strange that Amy her sexual awakening long before Sheldon, and I did find it funny that when she first had it she didn't understand what was happening.   I also believe that Amy is the perfect partner for Sheldon.   I would find it hard to blieve if they had Sheldon attracted to anyone who he considered mentally inferior, as to does Penny.  

[carl1970]

Sheldon and Penny have very little in common and show no sexual interest in each other. I can't think of one scene between these two that has happened on the show where Sheldon and Penny are together because they just want to be around each other and no one else. There always appears to be a non romantic motive to their interaction. Examples: eating dinner, going to a store, watching a movie or show, asking for advice, getting a ride, Sheldon being at Penny's apartment because Leonard was having a date at L/S apartment, helping her with her penny blossoms, doing Laundry, walking up the steps together (because that is the only way they can get to their apartments) and I'm sure of missed a couple more that someone will mention.

[sarah7]

I'm glad you brought that up. In my opinion, the most unique relationship that has been shown on TBBT and almost anytime on TV has been the early Sheldon/Amy. I can't think of any other like it in TV history. I remember how proud Chuck Lorre was of it's conception and execution and Lorre's a veteran of nearly 30 years of sitcoms, plus a historian of the genre.

 

Sheldon and Penny were written to be impossible, the shows creative staff made them that way but TBBT writers literally designed a relationship for two asexual people. Now that's professional level creativity!

 

Needless to say I agree with you, with the slight difference that I don't think their uniqueness existed only in their early days as a couple, I still think they are great and original.

I'm firmly in the Shamy boat, and I'm not in it and had never been for the (potential) sex or for the lack of it.

I'm in it for the intellectual connection/attraction (how many couples ever portrayed on TV or film had as their original attraction motive a purely intellectual one? that characteristic alone makes them a pretty original pairing), because I love both characters, for the funny, the awkardness, quirkiness and, yes, for the kinky too. I totally disagree with some of this board members' sensitivity, I love the fact that a relationship between two people that barely touch each other can be so deliciously naughty. I enjoy the subtle and even the crass sexual inuendos and I adore the D&D sex scene, for the sentimental charge it had too.

How can someone find that awesome in-so-many-levels moment "revolting" is beyond my comprehension, but to each their own.

 

However, even if I like in general the way the relationship progresses, and I don't mind them going "all the way" eventually, that doesn't take away my original statement, I would also like them if they had remained completely uninterested in sex, even when I think the sex yes/sex not issue is a logical one to be rised between them, and we still have to see how they finally handle it, if it's true that it's pretty much a given they will try it at least once in the course of the series. Amy's interest in it is a mixture of genuine curiosity/desire and social pressure, and I think Sheldon is starting to show an slight honest curiosity in it too, so I'm convinced that if anything major will ever happen between them in the physical realm, will be because the both of them truly want to do it.

 

At the end, I'd love if they could find a way the relationship could work for them without relying so much on sex as the other couples. Like if after they finally have intercourse, and have a bit of experimentation with it, they conclude that, after all, it's not such a big deal for them as the rest of the world thinks. That would make me beyond happy.

 

 

You are not a fan of Sheldon. The biggest change, I have seen in the last 2 years is the drop in Sheldon's popularity. He used to be universally loved. Now there are a lot of people who would care if he were dating a donkey. 

LOL!, exaggeration much? had you conducted a research on the matter to reach that conclusion?

The first term that jumps to me is the "universally loved" one, I don't think there exists a person or fictional character that can receive such adjectivation, but, of course, I'm neither doubting Sheldon's popularity.

From my observation (no, I still had not conducted a serious research, not even an online survey, perhaps we should! ), Sheldon is pretty much, much loved in general terms, by the vast majority of viewers of the show. I think the only ones that are noticing a decline in the quality of the character are those few who nitpick the show, like some critics and obsession-bordering fans, like us (preparing to read several: "I have friends who are casual viewers and they loathe current!Sheldon too!")

 

And while I agree there must be dozens of reasons of this so-called decline, maybe a different one for every critic, I still fail to find the direct and unequivocal correlation of it with him having a grilfriend. Mine, for instance, has to do with the inconsistency of his characterization and that he is in danger of becoming a one-joke character.

 

But, again, to each their own.

 

And with that I'll stop hijacking this thread with OTness.

Edited June 8, 2013 by sarah7

[Slicknickshady]

This thread may be the most hilarious thing on the internet.

[Moonbase]

LOL!, exaggeration much? had you conducted a research on the matter to reach that conclusion?

 

Patronising much! I wasn't aware that mentioning something I had noticed needed to be backed up with research now but I will do my best. New thread post coming.

 

 

[CaitAmber]

 

I can't help myself. 

[phantagrae]

You are not a fan of Sheldon. The biggest change, I have seen in the last 2 years is the drop in Sheldon's popularity. He used to be universally loved. Now there are a lot of people who would care if he were dating a donkey. 

 

I'm not a fan of Sheldon???  Are you kidding?  I LOVE Sheldon.  He's my favorite character on the show.  I love the way he was in the beginning of the show and I love him in every episode.

I never complain or gripe about his behavior because I love the character.

I love the Shamy, but I don't cry about it Amy's not in an episode.  I like her as well, but my primary interest has always been Sheldon (and Jim Parsons).

I love all the characters and I'm eager to see what happens next.

 

It seems to me that because you don't like the way things are developing you project your opinion on some supposed group of "a lot of people".  Has there been some poll about Sheldon's popularity?  Where do you get this drop that you've "seen"?

[Moonbase]

I'm not a fan of Sheldon???  Are you kidding?  I LOVE Sheldon.  He's my favorite character on the show.  I love the way he was in the beginning of the show and I love him in every episode.

I never complain or gripe about his behavior because I love the character.

I love the Shamy, but I don't cry about it Amy's not in an episode.  I like her as well, but my primary interest has always been Sheldon (and Jim Parsons).

I love all the characters and I'm eager to see what happens next.

 

It seems to me that because you don't like the way things are developing you project your opinion on some supposed group of "a lot of people".  Has there been some poll about Sheldon's popularity?  Where do you get this drop that you've "seen"?

 

Not YOU!!! I was replying to ajond.