Penny should go out with Sheldon

[phantagrae]

Not YOU!!! I was replying to ajond.

 

My apologies--I had written something similar and misread the quoted portion.

 

But everything I said about my love for Sheldon is true. :D

[Count Wally de Honk]

I think this is entirely reasonable. It’s not going to happen, but it’s a frightfully valid proposition.

Those who came in at the start of the show, or whose first exposure to it was the first three seasons, saw most of Sheldon’s “emotional growth” happen with Penny. His minor human epiphanies. Those who identified with Sheldon would by default begin to associate his emotional aspects with either Penny or Leonard. Having branched out and attached those aspects of his character to Penny and Leonard, it is cruel and rather unnatural to expect them to be broken off and grafted to some new character specifically created for that purpose.

 

I have a lot more to say on this matter, but I’m endeavouring not to be a ranty bastard.

 

Personally, if I have to “ship” Sheldon and anyone, I ship Sheldon/Wil Wheaton. Or that Green Lantern bint, whatever her name was. Martha. Sheldon hooking up with Penny or Leonard I also agree with, for the above mentioned reasons.

 

I have no problem with Amy. She’s very entertaining. But (and I’m not being snarky here) I’d prefer she was entertaining on her own show, that I could watch and enjoy at my leisure, rather than being foisted into some blatant cut-out of a relationship, where most of the emotion shown is antagonistic. Or directed at Professor Proton. (truly the happiest Sheldon appears to have been in season six)

 

There is only 22 minutes maximum per week that one has to deal with these exo-friends, and like one’s genuine friends, it is not always appreciated when they bring their significant others along.

 

I think a large amount of the problem is that the character of Sheldon changed rather dramatically around a third of the way into Amy’s presence in the show, and not as a result of her presence, but apparently arbitrarily, and to give Parsons something different to do with himself. One cannot judge the old Sheldon by the written actions of his recent “self”. The new vaguely pantomime Sheldon is not one I admire or even like at times, but one that appears popular, and strangely complements Amy’s seriousness. Perhaps there is a compromise here. Sheldon Classic should be with Penny (or god knows who), and Sheldon Revisited should be with Amy (or god knows who).

 

All I know is that they’re all considerably talented sods, I object to Sheldon be paired with anyone (as there’s such a thing as self-sufficiency), and that the forthcoming attempt to resurrect a moldy box of Dirk Bogarde tapes is going to be fraught with wine drinking and curses.

 

A small amount of certainty is pleasant.

[gaqo]

Okay if we're going to start thinking outside the 'canons'; I think Penny could have a strong platonic relationship with Sheldon. Sheldon a strong platonic relationship with Will. Penny would also be having a physical/social relationship with Zack. While having a FWB/social relationship with Leonard. Providing he grows up, and gets over the possessive stuff. I prefer Leoanard single. He's to much of a puppy when connected. We also the get a 'happy to be single' Sheldon.

Edited June 10, 2013 by gaqo

[ArmyGirl]

Okay if we're going to start thinking outside the 'canons'; I think Penny could have a strong platonic relationship with Sheldon. Sheldon a strong platonic relationship with Will. Penny would also be having a physical/social relationship with Zack. While having a FWB/social relationship with Leonard. Providing he grows up, and gets over the possessive stuff. I prefer Leoanard single. He's to much of a puppy when connected. We also the get a 'happy to single' Sheldon.

 

 

Of course, you Shennies don't want Leonard to have any kind of happiness.  I have to wonder why you guys find his so .....

Edited June 10, 2013 by ArmyGirl

[Guest DroneInTheSun]

I like the idea of Leonard/Alex a lot, probably more than Leonard/Penny if I'm being completely honest. I kind of like L/P again but she completely turned me off the relationship because she's been really nasty to him a lot ever since they first started dating. And tbh I think Leonard has a lot of personal issues to take care of before he can really be mature enough to be in a stable relationship. L/P has been great since Penny admitted she was nasty on V-Day, but it doesn't seem natural to me. Their problems come from more than Penny's fear of engagement. 

 

As for Sheldon and Amy vs. Sheldon and Penny, I'm not going to debate on this - everyone knows which side I'm on.

[gaqo]

Of course, you Shennies don't want Leonard to have any kind of happiness.  I have to wonder why you guys find his so .....

I just prefer it when he's focused on himself, not always worried about what his girlfreind thinks. He needs to be free, and find himself. I like Leonard, he's the sensible one.

Edited June 10, 2013 by gaqo

[ArmyGirl]

Which of these characters on the show don't need to mature or deal with some of their issues?  What is it only Leonard that most have a problem with? 

 

Leonard may have issues but he isn't the only one that needs to grow the heck up!  Most on the show are  in worst shape than he is, imo.

[Guest DroneInTheSun]

Leonard is actually one of my favourite characters (he comes fourth after Raj, Amy and Sheldon), so there's really not any need to be defensive nor aggressive. 

All the characters need to grow up and some are farther on the way to maturity than others. It kills me to admit it because I really hated him but Howard's the one who grew up the most. Once he makes peace with the fact that he isn't responsible for his mother, he'll be fully accomplished. On the other end of the scale, Raj is the one who needs the most to grow up, and quick, and once more this is said without malice because Raj is my favourite character on this show. Then you have Amy and Sheldon who are helping each other to grow up, but I'm left wondering if Leonard really realises he needs to grow up at all. He seems to be pretty happy the way things are but one day his problems are going to come back to bite him in the butt and it's going to be painful. 

[phantagrae]

Leonard is actually one of my favourite characters (he comes fourth after Raj, Amy and Sheldon), so there's really not any need to be defensive nor aggressive. 

All the characters need to grow up and some are farther on the way to maturity than others. It kills me to admit it because I really hated him but Howard's the one who grew up the most. Once he makes peace with the fact that he isn't responsible for his mother, he'll be fully accomplished. On the other end of the scale, Raj is the one who needs the most to grow up, and quick, and once more this is said without malice because Raj is my favourite character on this show. Then you have Amy and Sheldon who are helping each other to grow up, but I'm left wondering if Leonard really realises he needs to grow up at all. He seems to be pretty happy the way things are but one day his problems are going to come back to bite him in the butt and it's going to be painful. 

 

In what way does Leonard need to grow up?  He's probably the most adult of all of them.

And I don't see what problems he has that are going to bite him in the butt.

 

He has been able to handle the ups and downs of Sheldon's behavior for years without killing him in his sleep and despite his frustrations, he really cares about Sheldon as a friend--he's like a brother to him in many ways.

He is almost always the voice of reason amongst the whole gang and has even offered Penny sensible advice and done it without taking advantage of her.  Of course he hopes that she might see him in a favorable light, but he doesn't press his advantage.  This is especially true in the Middle Earth Paradigm.  She came over and was kissing him.  He knew she was drunk, and if he had been a different kind of person (like Wolowitz, maybe?) he might have gone along with it and taken it as far as he could.  But instead he stopped her because he knew she was drunk and not thinking straight (upset about her ex, etc.)

 

Though he has let insecurity determine how he dealt with Penny in the past, this season in particular he has gained more confidence and isn't afraid to call Penny on her b-word behavior on V-Day, and all that.  Though he did get jealous of her schoolmate, he was finally able to admit that to her and after her ILY, he has been able to be more and more confident.

 

There will always be a little unevenness to their relationship because that's the nature of the show--he's always going to be nerdy, she's always going to be the beautiful more socially agile girl, but I think they've done a good job of showing that both of them have insecurities based on dating someone outside of their usual circle.  Though Leonard isn't tall and handsome and socially adept like the guys Penny is used to dating, he's also smarter and works with smart people, some of whom are women (like Alex).  She knows that she can't compete on that level, like with Alex.  Alex was not only brainy, but she was beautiful as well, so although Penny might be able to compete with her in the looks department, she can't talk about physics the way Alex can.  And of course, Leonard is insecure compared to the kinds of guys she used to date.

But what I think is really good is that they have found something to value in each other beyond those superficial aspects.

And, really, Penny isn't stupid, she's just uneducated and isn't particularly scholarly.  We've seen again and again that when she is taught something, she can pick it up pretty quickly--the principal behind Shroedinger's Cat (so much so that she felt confident about trying to explain it to one of her dates), chess, Halo, D&D, even whatever it was that Sheldon taught her about Leonard's work in the Gorilla Experiment.

And Leonard isn't as socially clumsy as he once was.  He has good manners and he knows how to behave with donors, etc.  He just was prone to overexplain or get nervous or whatever.  And he still has his nerdy interests (like trying to get Penny interested in Buffy.)

 

So, I don't see that Leonard has any real problems other than the basic nerdiness that he's always had and likely will always have.  But that's not something that's going to cause him any real problems, as far as I can see.

[Guest DroneInTheSun]

Leonard is way too dependent on other people in the sense that he needs them to be dependent on him to give his life a purpose. The biggest representation of this problem is his incapacity to move out in The Spoiler Alert Segmentation. When things go wrong with Sheldon, he goes to Penny. When things go wrong with Penny, he goes back to Sheldon. There's not a second where he thought "Hey, I could actually get my own apartment." Another example is how much he depends on women to be happy. Whenever we've seen Leonard depressed, it was because of a woman.

Leonard can't live for himself, and this isn't good. He needs to be able to be his own person before he can pretend to be in a well-balanced relationship. I know it's easier said than done because it goes against both his nature as a nurturer and the emotional scars his witch of a mother left on him, but Leonard has to learn to be selfish sometimes before he can really be adult enough. Most of the relationships he has right now may seem fulfilling in the here and now, but on the long run, I'm not sure they are that healthy.

 

That's actually the main things Leonard haters don't get about him. They call him whiny, needy, insecure, but Leonard's problem lies in the fact that he can't function if other people don't depend on him. He has to let go of this need and he'll feel better, but like I said before, I'm not even sure he realises how much he chained himself to the people in his life.

[gaqo]

It's impossible to say that any better! So I'll just say, what shocked me, was when Sheldon struck Leonard, over enjoying his date with Amy. Leonard needs to kill his mother(psychologically!).

[Guest DroneInTheSun]

It's also worth noting that Leonard IS working on his problems, even if he doesn't do this consciously. A few years back he would never have accepted that trip to the North Sea. It's literally the first time we see Leonard put his needs and desires first. Hopefully when he comes back in September, he'll keep doing that more often, and then maybe I'll be back on the L/P ship.

[phantagrae]

Leonard is way too dependent on other people in the sense that he needs them to be dependent on him to give his life a purpose. The biggest representation of this problem is his incapacity to move out in The Spoiler Alert Segmentation. When things go wrong with Sheldon, he goes to Penny. When things go wrong with Penny, he goes back to Sheldon. There's not a second where he thought "Hey, I could actually get my own apartment." Another example is how much he depends on women to be happy. Whenever we've seen Leonard depressed, it was because of a woman.

Leonard can't live for himself, and this isn't good. He needs to be able to be his own person before he can pretend to be in a well-balanced relationship. I know it's easier said than done because it goes against both his nature as a nurturer and the emotional scars his witch of a mother left on him, but Leonard has to learn to be selfish sometimes before he can really be adult enough. Most of the relationships he has right now may seem fulfilling in the here and now, but on the long run, I'm not sure they are that healthy.

 

That's actually the main things Leonard haters don't get about him. They call him whiny, needy, insecure, but Leonard's problem lies in the fact that he can't function if other people don't depend on him. He has to let go of this need and he'll feel better, but like I said before, I'm not even sure he realises how much he chained himself to the people in his life.

 

I think one has to always temper character analysis with the leavening of show construct.

Leonard wasn't going to go out and get his own apartment for a couple of reasons:

A) Moving in with Penny seems logical (as Penny had to admit--and Sheldon with Amy)--they're in love, they spend lots of time together, they could save money, etc.  And it is a logical next step in many relationships

and (and most importantly)

B ) They're not going to change the physical set-up of the show, keeping Penny across the hall from the guys and keeping the guys living together.

 

Whether or not it's realistic in terms of the guys' ages or incomes or anything else, it's very likely that the living arrangements of S/L/P are not going to change any time soon.

 

And I don't think there's any real evidence to suggest that Leonard's life's purpose is dependent upon other people needing him.  Yes, he's a nurturer, but I don't think that means that he actively seeks out people to depend upon him.  I think that it's just his nature.  Maybe it does have to do with the fact that his mother neglected him emotionally or whatever, but he could have turned into a cold-hearted person because of that.  Instead he responds to people by helping them when he can.

 

Plus, we're not seeing every moment of every day of his life.  He does apparently get up every morning and go do work that has nothing to do with anyone else.  He has a career and a purpose in that.  That he wants a loving relationship is not a weakness, nor is being down in the dumps when he feels lonely.  That's just human, not a character flaw.

 

But beyond all of that, most importantly, it's the nature of the comedy of the moment.  Because the trajectory of the show has him eventually ending up with Penny, he's going to go through various relationship ups and downs.  If he and Penny are not together, then he's free to date others, with good or bad outcomes.  And of course it's ultimately going to be bad, because Penny really is the only girl for him (and he for her, judging by her other dating relationships).

And that's where a lot of the comedy lies, so they're going to show him struggling with relationships and so forth.

 

He's not going to grow or change apart from the story the writers are telling, and he doesn't have any kinds of issues that the writers don't intend to give him.  Nothing's going to bite him in the butt if the writers don't intend it to happen, and as far as I can tell, the writers don't seem to consider him to be damaged or co-dependent or whatever.

[gaqo]

Is 'clingy' a word, because that fits. I agree, about the trip. Getting away from his mother's judgement, would be liberating. It's the first step to LEONARD the MAN! (not shouting, just being dramatic!)

[Guest DroneInTheSun]

What can I say, I analyse everything way too much. It comes together with the literature degree, you see things you shouldn't even be able to see. 
 
 

I think one has to always temper character analysis with the leavening of show construct.
Leonard wasn't going to go out and get his own apartment for a couple of reasons:
A) Moving in with Penny seems logical (as Penny had to admit--and Sheldon with Amy)--they're in love, they spend lots of time together, they could save money, etc.  And it is a logical next step in many relationships
and (and most importantly)
B ) They're not going to change the physical set-up of the show, keeping Penny across the hall from the guys and keeping the guys living together.
 
Whether or not it's realistic in terms of the guys' ages or incomes or anything else, it's very likely that the living arrangements of S/L/P are not going to change any time soon.

 
It was obvious they weren't going to change the setting of the show, but adding a ten second scene of Leonard thinking "hey, I'm going to look for my own apartment" before thinking "okay, I do like Sheldon" wouldn't have costed much. The writers chose not to include it, because in the end, this is what Leonard is all about.

 

And I don't think there's any real evidence to suggest that Leonard's life's purpose is dependent upon other people needing him.  Yes, he's a nurturer, but I don't think that means that he actively seeks out people to depend upon him.  I think that it's just his nature.  Maybe it does have to do with the fact that his mother neglected him emotionally or whatever, but he could have turned into a cold-hearted person because of that.  Instead he responds to people by helping them when he can.

 
And that's what I like about him, don't get me wrong. The fact that in spite of everything, Leonard is still a caring, good-hearted person is amazing. Sheldon got at least twenty times more affection than Leonard growing up, and he didn't turn nearly half as human as Leonard. But something I learnt the hard way is that sometimes, it does help being selfish. 
The worst example that comes to mind is 03x01. Sheldon literally backed himself into that corner when he decided to say the data he had collected at the North Pole was obviously his key to success, and he has only himself to blame for his own failure. Yet Leonard took a trip to Texas to get him home even though he was seeing the woman he loves for the first time in months. There are a lot of examples where it wouldn't have been shocking to see Leonard think "Screw that, I'm thinking of myself," but he never does. 

 

Plus, we're not seeing every moment of every day of his life.  He does apparently get up every morning and go do work that has nothing to do with anyone else.  He has a career and a purpose in that.  That he wants a loving relationship is not a weakness, nor is being down in the dumps when he feels lonely.  That's just human, not a character flaw.

 
A career he never chose. I have no doubt he ended up liking it and he plainly embraces it (cf. for example The Holographic Excitation) but the fact remains that he chose this career to please his mother and father, not because he wanted it. And there is nothing wrong with being sad when you're lonely, but expecting other people to make you happy isn't healthy. There is such a thing as learning to be alone, and Leonard hasn't done it yet. It takes time, I know, I've been there, but Leonard hasn't realised that yet. It's even more tragic in his case that he has friends, and he's never truly alone. 
 
 

But beyond all of that, most importantly, it's the nature of the comedy of the moment.  Because the trajectory of the show has him eventually ending up with Penny, he's going to go through various relationship ups and downs.  If he and Penny are not together, then he's free to date others, with good or bad outcomes.  And of course it's ultimately going to be bad, because Penny really is the only girl for him (and he for her, judging by her other dating relationships).
And that's where a lot of the comedy lies, so they're going to show him struggling with relationships and so forth.
 
He's not going to grow or change apart from the story the writers are telling, and he doesn't have any kinds of issues that the writers don't intend to give him.  Nothing's going to bite him in the butt if the writers don't intend it to happen, and as far as I can tell, the writers don't seem to consider him to be damaged or co-dependent or whatever.

 
Of course the writers don't seem to be headed that way, and they probably won't because TBBT is a sitcom, but to say that Penny and Leonard's relationship as it stands right now is perfect isn't true. And whether they wan't me to think Leonard is fully grown-up or not is irrelevant, because everything in their writing makes me feel like it's not the case at all. The writers' intent in the way I see Leonard doesn't really matter, that's actually the number one rule in literature: once the story and its characters are in the audience's hands, it belongs to us and we're free to interpret him as we want to. That's also why reminding Shenny shippers all the time that their ship won't happen doesn't help anything, btw.
As things currently stand, they have in Leonard a very believable character, perhaps the more believable of them all because he's not over the top like Sheldon, Raj or Amy can be, and the way I've interpreted his actions so far show me someone who, if this were real life, would be heading straight into a disaster. And as long as that won't be addressed, I'll have a hard time believing in Leonard and Penny's relationship.

[Nogravitasatall]

Hey Lost. I conjecture that a lot of this has to do with preference, not rationality, so your point about belief is so valid. I believe its an American TV show and as long as they don't cock it up too much I'll keep watching. But my preference is to suspend disbelief regarding LP. Yours is to suspend disbelief about SA. Gaqo does whatever the hell, lol.

I'd also venture that Leonard is aware of his issues and he knows that Penny may be his salvation, which is why he hasn't let her go. He hangs on like pit bulls once did.

Edited June 11, 2013 by Nogravitasatall

[Moonbase]

The worst example that comes to mind is 03x01. Sheldon literally backed himself into that corner when he decided to say the data he had collected at the North Pole was obviously his key to success, and he has only himself to blame for his own failure. Yet Leonard took a trip to Texas to get him home even though he was seeing the woman he loves for the first time in months.

 

Oh my word!!! It's like an alternative universe in these forums. Sheldon didn't fail. They fooled him and almost ruined his career. Leonard was far too busy trying to get his end away. He had to be forced to go to Texas.

[Guest DroneInTheSun]

Because everyone knows it's completely professional behaviour to proclaim everywhere that you're so smart you know the data you've collected and haven't had analysed by any third party is completely what is going to change the world as we know it.

Oh, wait-

[Nogravitasatall]

Oh my word!!! It's like an alternative universe in these forums. Sheldon didn't fail. They fooled him and almost ruined his career. Leonard was far too busy trying to get his end away. He had to be forced to go to Texas.

Leonard prioritized. Lol.

[Moonbase]

Because everyone knows it's completely professional behaviour to proclaim everywhere that you're so smart you know the data you've collected and haven't had analysed by any third party is completely what is going to change the world as we know it.

Oh, wait-

God you must really hate Sheldon! They falsified his data. Sure he was being a jerk but lets not pretend Leonard was being noble.

BTW if Sheldon had found background radiation from the Big Bang it would have changed the world. It's the same reason Leonard's on that boat for four months.

Edited June 11, 2013 by Moonbase

[phantagrae]

What can I say, I analyse everything way too much. It comes together with the literature degree, you see things you shouldn't even be able to see.

Just because you see it doesn't mean it's there...

It was obvious they weren't going to change the setting of the show, but adding a ten second scene of Leonard thinking "hey, I'm going to look for my own apartment" before thinking "okay, I do like Sheldon" wouldn't have costed much. The writers chose not to include it, because in the end, this is what Leonard is all about.

They chose not to include it because it didn't have anything to do with the story they were telling. The point of the dust-up was both Leonard and Amy making presumptions about their significant others and pushing themselves on them while Penny and Sheldon struggled to find a way to tell them the uncomfortable truth.

Leonard contemplating getting his own place would have defeated the point of the whole story, never mind messing up the comic rhythm of the episode.

And that's what I like about him, don't get me wrong. The fact that in spite of everything, Leonard is still a caring, good-hearted person is amazing. Sheldon got at least twenty times more affection than Leonard growing up, and he didn't turn nearly half as human as Leonard. But something I learnt the hard way is that sometimes, it does help being selfish.

The worst example that comes to mind is 03x01. Sheldon literally backed himself into that corner when he decided to say the data he had collected at the North Pole was obviously his key to success, and he has only himself to blame for his own failure. Yet Leonard took a trip to Texas to get him home even though he was seeing the woman he loves for the first time in months. There are a lot of examples where it wouldn't have been shocking to see Leonard think "Screw that, I'm thinking of myself," but he never does.

Just because you may have found that to be true in your own life doesn't mean that it's true for Leonard. He can be selfish when he feels like it. I think you mean self-assertive, anyway, not selfish. Big difference.

Yes, Sheldon was egotistical in his assessment of the results of his experiments and jumped the gun on announcing his success, but he would never have made that assumption if LEONARD'S IDEA to falsify the data hadn't mislead him.

No matter why Leonard and the guys chose to do it, it was absolutely unprofessional and he knew it.

And then when confronted by the truth he was more interested in being with Penny than correcting his mistake. And when Sheldon ran away, he was more concerned with being with Penny than with making things right. Even if one were to say that Sheldon overreacted, it was still Leonard's behavior that led to it. Even Penny had to ultimately force him to d the right thing.

Leonard knows how to be selfish.

]A career he never chose. I have no doubt he ended up liking it and he plainly embraces it (cf. for example The Holographic Excitation) but the fact remains that he chose this career to please his mother and father, not because he wanted it. And there is nothing wrong with being sad when you're lonely, but expecting other people to make you happy isn't healthy. There is such a thing as learning to be alone, and Leonard hasn't done it yet. It takes time, I know, I've been there, but Leonard hasn't realised that yet. It's even more tragic in his case that he has friends, and he's never truly alone.

Why he chose his career is irrelevant. If he hated his life, he could have done something else. We don't see any evidence that he's unhappy with the career he chose or why he chose it.

And who says that he expects other people to make him happy? Just because he wants to have a girlfriend doesn't mean he doesn't know how to be alone. We don't know his life before he met Sheldon. He seemed to have been mostly alone as a kid growing up, so he may very well have learned to "be alone" at an early age. That is apparently true for all of the guys.

Of course the writers don't seem to be headed that way, and they probably won't because TBBT is a sitcom, but to say that Penny and Leonard's relationship as it stands right now is perfect isn't true. And whether they wan't me to think Leonard is fully grown-up or not is irrelevant, because everything in their writing makes me feel like it's not the case at all. The writers' intent in the way I see Leonard doesn't really matter, that's actually the number one rule in literature: once the story and its characters are in the audience's hands, it belongs to us and we're free to interpret him as we want to. That's also why reminding Shenny shippers all the time that their ship won't happen doesn't help anything, btw.As things currently stand, they have in Leonard a very believable character, perhaps the more believable of them all because he's not over the top like Sheldon, Raj or Amy can be, and the way I've interpreted his actions so far show me someone who, if this were real life, would be heading straight into a disaster. And as long as that won't be addressed, I'll have a hard time believing in Leonard and Penny's relationship.

I never said that the L/P relationship was perfect, but that Leonard is not the dysfunctional person you seem to think he is. I think that L&P are working their issues out in a pretty solid way, able to open up with each other now in a way they weren't able to last season, or even at the beginning of this season.

While it's true that you are free to interpret Leonard however you want,it doesn't mean that that is the story they are telling or that Leonard is the way you think he is.

It's like the issue of whether or not Sheldon is autistic. The writers have never intended him to be autistic. Some people may see aspects of autism in his behavior, but if the writers say they are not writing him as autistic, then the canon of his character is that he is not.

Similarly, if they do not write Leonard as being somehow dysfunctional or having some kind of personality issue that's going to "bite him in the butt" if he doesn't deal with it, then it isn't true. Nothing will bite him in the butt if they don't write it.

Edited June 11, 2013 by phantagrae

[Guest DroneInTheSun]

God you must really hate Sheldon! They falsified his data. Sure he was being a jerk but lets not pretend Leonard was being noble.

BTW if Sheldon had found background radiation from the Big Bang it would have changed the world. It's the same reason Leonard's on that boat for four months.

 

Of course I hate Sheldon that's why he's one half of my OTP.     

 

It was either feeding Sheldon fake data or murdering him jeez what a bad person I am for thinking he brought it all on himself.

 

I love how you can’t do some constructive criticism of a fictional character without being tagged as a hater. Nevermind that said character is one of your favourites in spite of their flaws (sometimes even because of their flaws), if you don’t think the sun shines out of their arse, you’re a hater. And when I say "I love" I mean "Are you kidding me?"

 

PS: What are you even still doing on this forum? Didn't you want to leave at the end of S6? [whispers] S6 is over.

 

 

 

Just because you see it doesn't mean it's there...

 

Thank you Captain Obvious.

[rubyanjel]

oh what fun discussions. Some things just nevervgwt settled.

[BangerMain]

What can I say, I analyse everything way too much. It comes together with the literature degree, you see things you shouldn't even be able to see. 

 

 

 Of course the writers don't seem to be headed that way, and they probably won't because TBBT is a sitcom, but to say that Penny and Leonard's relationship as it stands right now is perfect isn't true. And whether they wan't me to think Leonard is fully grown-up or not is irrelevant, because everything in their writing makes me feel like it's not the case at all. The writers' intent in the way I see Leonard doesn't really matter, that's actually the number one rule in literature: once the story and its characters are in the audience's hands, it belongs to us and we're free to interpret him as we want to. That's also why reminding Shenny shippers all the time that their ship won't happen doesn't help anything, btw.

As things currently stand, they have in Leonard a very believable character, perhaps the more believable of them all because he's not over the top like Sheldon, Raj or Amy can be, and the way I've interpreted his actions so far show me someone who, if this were real life, would be heading straight into a disaster. And as long as that won't be addressed, I'll have a hard time believing in Leonard and Penny's relationship.

 

What is relevant is our interpretations are without power to change the direction of the writers destination. We can all take a snapshot of the story arc and say "this is where they should be going" and imagine all sorts of conclusions. We are free to imagine any scenario as long as we are happy with it being our own private fantasy. But the end results is nothing changes the characters "reality" but the writers intent. If the writers have Leonard say "our babies will be smart and beautiful" in the pilot of the series, there is a very good chance that they will have Penny's character move toward that conclusion even if the path is long and circuitous. 

 

Whether any one of us believes the writers or not or are displeased in their route to their final destination is meaningless to them. As long as they please a majority of the sponsors product buying audience (now over 20 million followers), that's the only thing that matters or changes the canon. TPTB have verifiable proof now from critical reviews to season 6's spectacular ratings growth, that their choice of direction is what is most believable to that majority.

Edited June 11, 2013 by BangerMain

[rickfromillinois]

To begin with, Sheldon did fail in that the purpose of his going to the North Pole was to prove his hypothesis and the actual untapmpered with data failed to do that.   Something else I am responding to was a post that Leonard didn't want to become a physicist, he only did so to please his mother.   I have no idea where that idea came from.  I don't remember him ever saying anything that would lead someone to that conclusion.   Of the four regular guys on the show, Leonard is the cloeset to being normal by far.