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Your hopes and dreams for Season 6


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I agree completely with owlinaz that the hand-holding was a breakthrough moment of personal growth, both for Penny and for Sheldon, and for their respective relationships. It was symbolic of Penny getting over her complexes regarding emotional commitment, and of Sheldon 'boldly' overcoming his fears of intimacy and physical contact. A baby step for both of them, but I'm sure they will build on it in the coming season.

I can't agree totally with ekap2 that it's against Sheldon's character. It's been one of the underlying themes of the show of personal growth in all the characters. Howard is the most obvious example of this. Sheldon has the furthest to travel to normality but everyone needs to grow and mature, even Sheldon.

The theme of emotional and social development has been especially true about Sheldon, throughout the series. In Staircase Implementation, we got to see how far even season 1 Sheldon had come, in terms of comfort with social interactions, when compared with his even more quirky, neurotic self of 4 years before he met Leonard (the subtle change in the wording of his 'spot' dialogue was a brilliant indication of this).

After that, each season finale marked a milestone for him. At the end of season 1, we found him giving relationship advice to Leonard and Penny, in Physics terms. The season 2 finale saw the introduction of 'Bazinga' - Sheldon's earliest attempts at sarcasm. The season 3 finale saw the introduction of Amy, and the first hint of his interest in her as a person; and season 4 came to an end with Sheldon's first non-Sheldonesque laugh, when he discovered he could actually make people laugh with his comments, and also a queer genesis of physical excitement in his video-chat massage scene with Amy.

And the season 5 finale gave us the voluntary hand-holding. To me, it's a perfect step-by-step progression.

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And your point is? Of course, other than being offensive. Luckily I deal with students all the time that think they know a lot more than they do so I'll address what I perceive as your point.

Yes interst in a person, but it is a purely Intellectual connection, that is the base of sheldon character. The argument here is predicated upon Mmy beleif that sheldon is a creature of pure intelellect, in logic in routine, this is shown. Imagine if sheldon was a smart as penny, What would that mean for him?? His first seson he was stupid with all human emotions he just did not understand. Season 2 the bazinga sarcasm is another weapon of his to make himself more superior, especially becuase he stilll hasnt even grapsed it yet... "non sheldoneque" dont understand what you mean, I see him progessing I do but the hand holding while nice when against his charchter

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Sheldon likes to think of himself as a 'creature of pure intellect', but it has been shown throughout the series that his self-estimate is faulty; he can experience some pretty intense emotions - joy, anguish, fan ecstasy, jealousy, guilt - and when he does, he demonstrates them in dramatic, if awkward ways. From there, to feeling the emotion of love and expressing it somehow, is not a long stretch.

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all of those emotions have related to though his intlelect or just intellect in general. I'm pretty sure he could reduce all of his routines, eotional quirks, comic book obsessions etc. into intellect

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all of those emotions have related to though his intlelect or just intellect in general. I'm pretty sure he could reduce all of his routines, eotional quirks, comic book obsessions etc. into intellect

His jealousy when his mother gave more attention to his friends wasn't about intellect. His sadness when he thought that Leonard was the center of their group, and they were leaving him behind and moving to Raj's apartment, wasn't about intellect. His love for his Meemaw, which made him voluntarily lose a game which meant so much to him, wasn't about intellect. Even his deep emotional attachment to certain toys or games or fictional characters (strong enough to provoke something like the napkin reaction) can't be classified as intellectual and rational, even if he would like to believe so - by the normal parameters of society, anyone would see them as purely human emotions.

And if all of the above can be 'reduced' into intellect, then so can romantic love. At least Sheldon can rationalize it in that way, certainly - love and attraction can after all be scientifically explained (to a degree) by hormones and by certain psychological triggers, the kind which Amy was implementing on him after taking his permission to do so!

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His jealousy when his mother gave more attention to his friends wasn't about intellect. His sadness when he thought that Leonard was the center of their group, and they were leaving him behind and moving to Raj's apartment, wasn't about intellect. His love for his Meemaw, which made him voluntarily lose a game which meant so much to him, wasn't about intellect. Even his deep emotional attachment to certain toys or games or fictional characters (strong enough to provoke something like the napkin reaction) can't be classified as intellectual and rational, even if he would like to believe so - by the normal parameters of society, anyone would see them as purely human emotions.

And if all of the above can be 'reduced' into intellect, then so can romantic love. At least Sheldon can rationalize it in that way, certainly - love and attraction can after all be scientifically explained (to a degree) by hormones and by certain psychological triggers, the kind which Amy was implementing on him after taking his permission to do so!

Couldn't agree more!

I think the reason Spock is his hero is because on some level, he realizes he has emotional parts too, yet is he constantly trying to ignore them. He can identify with Spock, and his occasional slips into the world of emotion.

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Couldn't agree more!

I think the reason Spock is his hero is because on some level, he realizes he has emotional parts too, yet is he constantly trying to ignore them. He can identify with Spock, and his occasional slips into the world of emotion.

Yes. And that is why Spock (i.e. his own unconscious) visited his dreams, to tell him 'like me, you have a human half'. :)

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His jealousy when his mother gave more attention to his friends wasn't about intellect. His sadness when he thought that Leonard was the center of their group, and they were leaving him behind and moving to Raj's apartment, wasn't about intellect. His love for his Meemaw, which made him voluntarily lose a game which meant so much to him, wasn't about intellect. Even his deep emotional attachment to certain toys or games or fictional characters (strong enough to provoke something like the napkin reaction) can't be classified as intellectual and rational, even if he would like to believe so - by the normal parameters of society, anyone would see them as purely human emotions.

And if all of the above can be 'reduced' into intellect, then so can romantic love. At least Sheldon can rationalize it in that way, certainly - love and attraction can after all be scientifically explained (to a degree) by hormones and by certain psychological triggers, the kind which Amy was implementing on him after taking his permission to do so!

1. He wasnt sad when Leonad left, in faxt he though raj was bettr.

2. when amy told him that leonard's in the nucleas of the group he acted more suprised then upset

3. His love for meemaw and AFF obvioulsy comes becuase they appeal to him either intellectually (AFF) or they appealed to his childish nature (Meemaw) furthermore his love for meemaw the rationale has not been proven as we know next to nothing about her, so not fair point

4. the napkin reaction was he could his own leonard nemoy and possesed something that was one of his heroes (Im pretty sure star treck gave him hope as an outcast, wacth thespian catalyst :) )

5. Its pretty ovbious you could "reduce" anything into pure intellect, but that's the sheldon paridgm. Amy dosent fit in into the paridgm


oh wait the movvement to raj's apartment ws becuase of routine, priya, and the dead pixels on tv

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1. He wasnt sad when Leonad left, in faxt he though raj was bettr.

oh wait the movvement to raj's apartment ws becuase of routine, priya, and the dead pixels on tv

2. when amy told him that leonard's in the nucleas of the group he acted more suprised then upset

I'm not talking about the move. I'm talking about his feelings when he felt that Leonard was the nucleus, and when he thought they were ignoring him and shifting their venue away from his apartment. Call it upset, call it offended, he certainly felt something, and it also involved a sense of rejected friendship. Did you miss the muttered 'he's going to be back' after Leonard left?

3. His love for meemaw and AFF obviously comes becuase they appeal to him either intellectually (AFF) or they appealed to his childish nature (Meemaw) furthermore his love for meemaw the rationale has not been proven as we know next to nothing about her, so not fair point

I'm sorry, how is it relevant whether we know anything about Mee maw or not? It's enough to know that he loves her to that extent, which can influence his behavior. It shows that he's capable of human love.

4. the napkin reaction was he could his own leonard nemoy and possesed something that was one of his heroes (Im pretty sure star treck gave him hope as an outcast, wacth thespian catalyst :) )

My point was that his reaction was purely emotional. An attachment of that level to anything, which can make you cry and spaz and freak out, is an emotional attachment. It doesn't matter if it was a toy or a fictional character. In that case, it's called 'fan love'.

You say that his attachment to Spock is for a reason - that he gives him hope as an outcast. Well, his attachment to Amy is also for a reason - in her, he has found real friendship and acceptance as a person, and he has found someone who understands him and speaks his language and admires his intelligence, whose company he enjoys, who is patient with his quirks (because she is as quirky as him) and who he sees as his intellectual equal.

For someone who has been as much of an 'outsider' as Sheldon has been all his life (even to his own group of friends), such a connection has to be a rare treasure. Is it that strange that he has developed a deep emotional bond, as a result?

5. Its pretty ovbious you could "reduce" anything into pure intellect, but that's the sheldon paridgm. Amy dosent fit in into the paridgm

I don't see why Amy doesn't fit into the Sheldon paradigm, whatever that means. And I don't think Sheldon would agree. :)

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My point was that his reaction was purely emotional.

Everything you do is an emotional reaction to something. Emotions are just chemical reactions in the brain. Happiness is a chemical reaction, as well as hunger, or thirst

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My point was that his reaction was purely emotional.

Everything you do is an emotional reaction to something. Emotions are just chemical reactions in the brain. Happiness is a chemical reaction, as well as hunger, or thirst.

So is romantic attraction.

@ekap2 insisted that Sheldon is a 'creature of pure intellect', so any emotional/romantic attachment is out of character for him. I tried to show with several examples that while Sheldon likes to believe that he is purely rational and intellectual, he is given to many kinds of intense emotion, and it has been demonstrated throughout the series. He is just not good at understanding and processing his own emotions in mature ways.

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My point was that his reaction was purely emotional.

Everything you do is an emotional reaction to something. Emotions are just chemical reactions in the brain. Happiness is a chemical reaction, as well as hunger, or thirst.

So is romantic attraction?

Yes.

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My point was that his reaction was purely emotional.

Everything you do is an emotional reaction to something. Emotions are just chemical reactions in the brain. Happiness is a chemical reaction, as well as hunger, or thirst.

So is romantic attraction?

Yes.

Pls read modified post above.

I don't see the anomaly here.

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My point was that his reaction was purely emotional.

Everything you do is an emotional reaction to something. Emotions are just chemical reactions in the brain. Happiness is a chemical reaction, as well as hunger, or thirst.

So is romantic attraction?

Yes.

Pls read modified post above.

I don't see the anomaly here.

Oh, I wasn't trying to argue anything on your post, just stating everything is a result of checmical reactions in the brain. =) Just making nerdy posts... sorry for the confusion...

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Cut out all of my original post...As I was reading the threads, I realized something else very different that had occurred...In the final scene of season 5, where the handholding happens, it occurs to me that I can't remember ever seeing Penny hold hands with anyone. She may have had 'coitus' with guys, especially Leonard...But I just don't remember ever seeing her hold hands with anyone, and certainly not in the way she did it with Leonard in this scene. This might represent a breakthrough for her in dealing with her inability to emotionally commit. For many people, coitus is the ultimate sharing and vulnerability, but I get the feeling that because of Penny's past, coitus is more physical than emotional. But holding hands, especially with her taking the initiative, could be a reset back to an emotional connection.

Then again, it's just a TV show, and we may ALL be reading way to much into these characters...then again, maybe not :)

It was a break through and it was meant to be seen as that, I believe. Penny isn't going to let go of Leonard anymore (thanks to her emotional train wreak in Season 4) but that does not mean smooth sailing for Leonard. He's got to deal with her fears up close and personal in Season 6.

Yeah Leonard needs to stop running away or thinking it's about him when dealing with Penny.

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@owlinaz, that was a masterful analysis. I also like the way you picked up on Penny's hand holding. I certainly do hope as BangerMain said that it is a breakthrough for Penny and Leonard. It is time to quit the all too common break up and get back together for those two. That's such a common theme in relationships. This is a nerd show after all, we want to see something more complex.

Move Penny and Leonard to a new level and have the two of them dealing with issues like the musician friend that was going to sleep on her couch. That was a good way to resolve it. For him to sleep on Leonard's couch instead. Let Leonard keep an eye on a rival but still keep Penny happy by giving her friend a place to stay. Compromise.

I can't agree totally with ekap2 that it's against Sheldon's character. It's been one of the underlying themes of the show of personal growth in all the characters. Howard is the most obvious example of this. Sheldon has the furthest to travel to normality but everyone needs to grow and mature, even Sheldon.

Combining Raj coming out of the closet with a girl that seems to be a guy then comes out as a girl is a tremendous idea. Make Raj think he's gay then find out the guy he's attracted to is a girl. Great idea.

Perhaps we do read too much into the show but that's the fun of it. That's why we become involved because we can see ourselves in the characters.

Yes lets recycle l/p ideas:

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Everything you do is an emotional reaction to something. Emotions are just chemical reactions in the brain. Happiness is a chemical reaction, as well as hunger, or thirst.

So is romantic attraction?

Yes.

Pls read modified post above.

I don't see the anomaly here.

Oh, I wasn't trying to argue anything on your post, just stating everything is a result of checmical reactions in the brain. =) Just making nerdy posts... sorry for the confusion...

Oh, I see. Then I'm completely with you. :)

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My point was that his reaction was purely emotional.

Everything you do is an emotional reaction to something. Emotions are just chemical reactions in the brain. Happiness is a chemical reaction, as well as hunger, or thirst.

So is romantic attraction.

@ekap2 insisted that Sheldon is a 'creature of pure intellect', so any emotional/romantic attachment is out of character for him. I tried to show with several examples that while Sheldon likes to believe that he is purely rational and intellectual, he is given to many kinds of intense emotion, and it has been demonstrated throughout the series. He is just not good at understanding and processing his own emotions in mature ways.

Pomita, If you want to go into a philosophical discussion regarding truth and belief be my guess, People beleived the world was flat, to them saying the world was flat was truth, therefore to them the world is flat is the truth, its the same with Sheldon. The sheldon Paridgm, is seeing the world from a purely logical, or intellectual standpoint. Your arguments for my points we could continue arguing becuase I have a counter argument for ervy one. Wether from a philosphical standpoint, or frome vidence of sheldon character, He still is acreature of pure intellect

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Yes lets recycle l/p ideas:

And your point is? Of course, other than being offensive.

Luckily I deal with students all the time that think they know a lot more than they do so I'll address what I perceive as your point.

I guess you could call voting for someone's else's ideas as recycling. Just to explain the difference to you, recycling means, "to treat or process (used or waste materials) so as to make suitable for reuse: recycling paper to save trees." Dictionary.com. Typically, reusing someone else's ideas is considered a compliment as long as the ideas are attributed to that person which I did.

The negative implication of your comment is that it was not an original idea. Just curious, when was the last time you posted an original idea? Or for that matter had one?

Rather than get into this kind of thing, why don't we just agree to ignore each other from this point on?

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