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5.24 The Countdown Reflection [Season Finale] (May 10)


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I loved the finale. I thought it was the perfect balance of emotional and funny. Amy I guess could be seen as a bit grating with her maid of honor obsession but I think it makes sense because of who she is as a character and really emphasizes how much her and Sheldon have in common, what with making things about them when they shouldn't. I thought it was pretty funny. I loved Bernadette's dress on her and the bridesmaids dresses were pretty. I think L/P also kind of made it about themselves some of the time just as much as the Shamy did. Howard has changed a lot but he's still hilarious and the perverted Howard would have gotten old after a while. He's still funny just no more perverted jokes. And of course, I loved the hand holding scene. That was my favorite part and IMO the most touching part of the episode.

As for the romantic relationships, yes the show has changed with regards to that area over time but that is only natural and IMO expected. The premise of the show was two nerds become friends with the hot neighbor and they change each other's worldviews/lives because of how different they are. That includes Sheldon, not just Leonard. Over the years Sheldon has evolved and learned more about relationships through this group of friends, espcially Leonard and Penny IMO, and has consequently become more "human" and I think that was always the intended path for his character given the basic premise of the show and not something they decided to do along the way. He's come to rely on and care about people and develop real friendships and human connections. It's been very gradual and started before Amy even came on the show as a regular. In Amy he's found a kindred spirit and someone to care about, and without even consciously realizing it half the time (see the hand holding scene) he's developed real affection for her and sees her as a true source of support. Sheldon is and always will be unique, I don't see why that precludes him from ever being in a romantic relationship. And it's not like it's a conventional romantic relationship anyways, it's totally in keeping with his character.

I'm looking forward to Season 6. :) Happy they got renewed for two seasons.


Oh, and about the Leonard proposal. I don't consider that a real proposal. It's not like it was said after sex when they were cuddling or something like the S3 ILY was, it was specifically said several times it was during. People shout out all sorts of things during sex they don't mean, but I see why it would freak Penny out right after they just discussed not going too fast. And although I don't think Leonard meant to do it, I do think deep down he probably does want to marry Penny (now, not eventually) and maybe that's why he shouted it out like that without meaning to. He's always been ahead of her emotionally in their relationship.

Although I'm not an LP shipper I do think they're cute together, and I know they'll end up together it's obvious. I do still get annoyed at how Penny treats Leonard and vice versa sometimes. Lately it seems like Penny takes Leonard for granted. Not in this episode specifically but in recent episodes she makes comments like when they were going to the bachelor party and she laughed off the idea of being jealous of Leonard with a stripper. Not that I think she should have gotten jealous, but it's like the idea of him leaving her or cheating on her is so ridiculous to her or something, and it comes off like she thinks Leonard will always be there no matter what and she's above him or something. So far I do think she's right about him never leaving her but that could change if she keeps taking him for granted.

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Just been rewatching the ep recently and I know everyone focuses on Sheldon's hand-holding in terms of what it means regarding his relationship with Amy, and that's been discussed to death and is huge

Wheeeee! The finale is here! (Almost... ) I just can't wait. I'm so glad it looks like Howie is after all going into space. That will be super cool!

Lorre's vanity card for this episode was so touching. He talks about how he felt something so innately human about the final scene, the action of holding someone's hand conveying emotions, the need fo

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I loved the finale. I thought it was the perfect balance of emotional and funny. Amy I guess could be seen as a bit grating with her maid of honor obsession but I think it makes sense because of who she is as a character and really emphasizes how much her and Sheldon have in common, what with making things about them when they shouldn't. I thought it was pretty funny. I loved Bernadette's dress on her and the bridesmaids dresses were pretty. I think L/P also kind of made it about themselves some of the time just as much as the Shamy did. Howard has changed a lot but he's still hilarious and the perverted Howard would have gotten old after a while. He's still funny just no more perverted jokes. And of course, I loved the hand holding scene. That was my favorite part and IMO the most touching part of the episode.

As for the romantic relationships, yes the show has changed with regards to that area over time but that is only natural and IMO expected. The premise of the show was two nerds become friends with the hot neighbor and they change each other's worldviews/lives because of how different they are. That includes Sheldon, not just Leonard. Over the years Sheldon has evolved and learned more about relationships through this group of friends, espcially Leonard and Penny IMO, and has consequently become more "human" and I think that was always the intended path for his character given the basic premise of the show and not something they decided to do along the way. He's come to rely on and care about people and develop real friendships and human connections. It's been very gradual and started before Amy even came on the show as a regular. In Amy he's found a kindred spirit and someone to care about, and without even consciously realizing it half the time (see the hand holding scene) he's developed real affection for her and sees her as a true source of support. Sheldon is and always will be unique, I don't see why that precludes him from ever being in a romantic relationship. And it's not like it's a conventional romantic relationship anyways, it's totally in keeping with his character.

I'm looking forward to Season 6. :) Happy they got renewed for two seasons.


Oh, and about the Leonard proposal. I don't consider that a real proposal. It's not like it was said after sex when they were cuddling or something like the S3 ILY was, it was specifically said several times it was during. People shout out all sorts of things during sex they don't mean, but I see why it would freak Penny out right after they just discussed not going too fast. And although I don't think Leonard meant to do it, I do think deep down he probably does want to marry Penny (now, not eventually) and maybe that's why he shouted it out like that without meaning to. He's always been ahead of her emotionally in their relationship.

Although I'm not an LP shipper I do think they're cute together, and I know they'll end up together it's obvious. I do still get annoyed at how Penny treats Leonard and vice versa sometimes. Lately it seems like Penny takes Leonard for granted. Not in this episode specifically but in recent episodes she makes comments like when they were going to the bachelor party and she laughed off the idea of being jealous of Leonard with a stripper. Not that I think she should have gotten jealous, but it's like the idea of him leaving her or cheating on her is so ridiculous to her or something, and it comes off like she thinks Leonard will always be there no matter what and she's above him or something. So far I do think she's right about him never leaving her but that could change if she keeps taking him for granted.

I agree with all of that.

I love that all the characters are changing but are still able to make us laugh.I'm really glad that sheldon has found someone to care for and someone that likes him for who he is.The last scene was soo cute and I hope the is a lot of shamy in season 6.

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I don't feel Penny takes Leonard for granted, she knows he'd never cheat on her(one of the reasons she's with him) so why get jealous. I agree it wasn't a real proposal, of course he wants to marry her the way he acted in the pilot is an example, but that's totally typical of Leonard as soon as Penny talks to him about not doing what he did last time a few minutes later he does that, for a guy with his IQ he can be dumb or at least around Penny.

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@BazingaFan - I see your point. I loved the Vacation Solution episode on the whole, because it continued the Physics/Biology dispute (I feel a personal connection with that kind of thing ;) ) and also because I thought Sheldon's apology at the end was really heartfelt and perfectly played. But I can see how the fainting bits may be seen as over-the-top.

The premise of the show was two nerds become friends with the hot neighbor and they change each other's worldviews/lives because of how different they are. That includes Sheldon, not just Leonard. Over the years Sheldon has evolved and learned more about relationships through this group of friends, espcially Leonard and Penny IMO, and has consequently become more "human" and I think that was always the intended path for his character given the basic premise of the show and not something they decided to do along the way. He's come to rely on and care about people and develop real friendships and human connections. It's been very gradual and started before Amy even came on the show as a regular. In Amy he's found a kindred spirit and someone to care about, and without even consciously realizing it half the time (see the hand holding scene) he's developed real affection for her and sees her as a true source of support. Sheldon is and always will be unique, I don't see why that precludes him from ever being in a romantic relationship. And it's not like it's a conventional romantic relationship anyways, it's totally in keeping with his character.

This, absolutely. Sheldon was never meant to be a stagnant character - this was clearly established early on, when he gradually grew into his odd friendship with Penny in spite of initially resisting her, and most of all in Staircase Implementation, which showed how much more quirky and anti-social he was before he met the other guys. So it can be safely said that Sheldon's emotional and social evolution is an ongoing process on the show, and his attachment to Amy and its consequences are just another phase in this fascinating journey we're getting to see.

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Oh, and about the Leonard proposal. I don't consider that a real proposal. It's not like it was said after sex when they were cuddling or something like the S3 ILY was, it was specifically said several times it was during. People shout out all sorts of things during sex they don't mean, but I see why it would freak Penny out right after they just discussed not going too fast. And although I don't think Leonard meant to do it, I do think deep down he probably does want to marry Penny (now, not eventually) and maybe that's why he shouted it out like that without meaning to. He's always been ahead of her emotionally in their relationship.

Although I'm not an LP shipper I do think they're cute together, and I know they'll end up together it's obvious. I do still get annoyed at how Penny treats Leonard and vice versa sometimes. Lately it seems like Penny takes Leonard for granted. Not in this episode specifically but in recent episodes she makes comments like when they were going to the bachelor party and she laughed off the idea of being jealous of Leonard with a stripper. Not that I think she should have gotten jealous, but it's like the idea of him leaving her or cheating on her is so ridiculous to her or something, and it comes off like she thinks Leonard will always be there no matter what and she's above him or something. So far I do think she's right about him never leaving her but that could change if she keeps taking him for granted.

They have written Penny as being very concerned about being hurt again and she needs Leonard for a variety of things one of them is to validate that she isn't just a sex toy. He gamely went for four months with out sex during her go slow period during which she made those comments to Amy and Leonard about how she never questions his absolute faithfulness to her. It must have been true love after all.

Then Leonard proposes to her while they are having sex. What is she to think now? She won't throw him away because she is miserable without him as we saw in season four. She's got insecurity issues that Leonard sometimes repairs and at other times unintentionally makes worse. And she refuses to tell Leonard what they are. Amy and Bernadette tried to get this out of her during their game of "Truth or Dare" but she stormed out of the room.

Roger Ebert called these dilemmas "Single Conversation" moments where all misunderstanding could be resolved with a heart to heart talk but I don't think we will see that until late in season six

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I thought she stormed out during truth or dare was when they asked what would she do if some other female relaizes what Penny sees, I think most of the time Leonard makes Penny's insecruities worse, as for Leonard his insecruities get in the way always wanted to be loved, not letting his proposal go and move on instead of what he did.

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I thought she stormed out during truth or dare was when they asked what would she do if some other female realizes what Penny sees, I think most of the time Leonard makes Penny's insecurities worse, as for Leonard his insecurities get in the way always wanted to be loved, not letting his proposal go and move on instead of what he did.

You're basically right. Here is the dialog from "The 21 Second Excitation" that set her off:

Bernadette: Okay, my turn. Penny, truth or dare?

Penny: Truth.

Bernadette: Why are you still hanging out with Leonard so much even though you broke up with him?

Amy: Oh, that’s an excellent question. For two people who claim to be no longer pair-bonded, you spend an inordinate amount of time in each other’s company.

Bernadette: Yeah.

Penny: Dare.

Amy: I don’t believe the rules allow for an ex post facto option change.

Bernadette: Yeah.

Penny: Okay, look, just because we’re not seeing each other anymore doesn’t mean we can’t be friends. I mean, Leonard’s a great guy.

Amy: Then, why did you terminate your relationship with him?

Penny: I don’t know. He got really serious, and I wasn’t ready for it.

Amy: Interesting. How will you react if, in the future, you become ready for it, and Leonard is unavailable, because another woman has realized that he is, to use your words, a great guy?

Penny: You can only ask one question.

Amy and Bernadette together: That one.

Penny: You know what, I don’t want to play anymore. [storms out to her bedroom]

Penny never want's Leonard or anyone else to know how much she needs Leonard.

I think you are also right that Leonard often makes here insecurities worse because he has never explained to her why he loves HER so much. When she looks at the other women Leonard has had it really does not make sense.

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I thought she stormed out during truth or dare was when they asked what would she do if some other female realizes what Penny sees, I think most of the time Leonard makes Penny's insecurities worse, as for Leonard his insecurities get in the way always wanted to be loved, not letting his proposal go and move on instead of what he did.

You're basically right. Here is the dialog from "The 21 Second Excitation" that set her off:

Bernadette: Okay, my turn. Penny, truth or dare?

Penny: Truth.

Bernadette: Why are you still hanging out with Leonard so much even though you broke up with him?

Amy: Oh, that’s an excellent question. For two people who claim to be no longer pair-bonded, you spend an inordinate amount of time in each other’s company.

Bernadette: Yeah.

Penny: Dare.

Amy: I don’t believe the rules allow for an ex post facto option change.

Bernadette: Yeah.

Penny: Okay, look, just because we’re not seeing each other anymore doesn’t mean we can’t be friends. I mean, Leonard’s a great guy.

Amy: Then, why did you terminate your relationship with him?

Penny: I don’t know. He got really serious, and I wasn’t ready for it.

Amy: Interesting. How will you react if, in the future, you become ready for it, and Leonard is unavailable, because another woman has realized that he is, to use your words, a great guy?

Penny: You can only ask one question.

Amy and Bernadette together: That one.

Penny: You know what, I don’t want to play anymore. [storms out to her bedroom]

Penny never want's Leonard or anyone else to know how much she needs Leonard.

I think you are also right that Leonard often makes here insecurities worse because he has never explained to her why he loves HER so much. When she looks at the other women Leonard has had it really does not make sense.

I don't know about how much she needs Leonard that comes across as needy which she's not, for one we don't know not only why he wanted to date her much less why he loves her, or why she wants to be with him, but her actions overall in season 4 explained it and to Amy and Bernadette as well. Things were going great for the two and then Leonard messes things up. What do you mean by when she looks at the other women he's been with it doesn't make sense?

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Guest I'm not dead Cheryl

What do you mean by when she looks at the other women he's been with it doesn't make sense?

I think the poster is talking about Penny feeling insecure about herself when she thinks about the other women Leonard has dated.

Like in that episode when she asked Sheldon about Leonard's previous girlfriends "has he ever dated someone who wasn't a complete brainiac?". Penny has a lot of insecurity going on with regards to her education and intelligence. That's why she freaked out the first time after they dated. She thought she wasn't smart enough for him.

Leonard has dated a woman with a PhD in French Literature (although for Sheldon it doesn't count since she was french LOL)

Joyce Kim (a north-corean spy -not anyone can be a spy btw-)

Leslie (Physicist)

Stephanie (Medical Doctor)

Priya (a respected Lawyer, who, according to Penny is a "sofisticated and sucessful woman who makes me feel like a toothless jockey" -i don't remember the exact quote but it was something like that-)

it is kinda obvious that she will feel insecure about it. Penny looks at that list and it must not make any sense why Leonard would want to be with her, when he's been with all those intelligent women.

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Not sure being a spy makes you intelligent compared to the others.

One date doesn't count as dating.

Her lack of education makes sense, and if they are going to continue to be together for season 6 I'd like to see this adressed not only why is Leonard with her but in love with her in the manner he is as well as why Penny wants to be with Leonard.

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I thought she stormed out during truth or dare was when they asked what would she do if some other female realizes what Penny sees, I think most of the time Leonard makes Penny's insecurities worse, as for Leonard his insecurities get in the way always wanted to be loved, not letting his proposal go and move on instead of what he did.

Penny never want's Leonard or anyone else to know how much she needs Leonard.

I think you are also right that Leonard often makes here insecurities worse because he has never explained to her why he loves HER so much. When she looks at the other women Leonard has had it really does not make sense.

I don't know about how much she needs Leonard that comes across as needy which she's not, for one we don't know not only why he wanted to date her much less why he loves her, or why she wants to be with him, but her actions overall in season 4 explained it and to Amy and Bernadette as well. Things were going great for the two and then Leonard messes things up. What do you mean by when she looks at the other women he's been with it doesn't make sense?

We saw Penny's insecurities come out in their first attempt at dating in the second season's "The Bad Fish Paradigm" in a dialog with Sheldon:

Penny: Okay, okay, you know, I get it, Leonard has no business being involved with a waitress slash actress who felt so insecure that she lied to him about finishing community college.

Sheldon: Why would you lie about that?

Penny: Well, he was going on and on about this college and that grad school and I didn’t want him to think I was some stupid loser.

Sheldon: You thought the opposite of stupid loser was community college graduate?

Just think of the other women Leonard has dated on the show for more than one episode. Also his family background vs hers. She has got to be at least puzzled why he fixates on her.

The show has as one of it sub-premises Leonard as the fixer of Penny's problems usually revolving around her scumbag boyfriends. They made her almost a drunken mess in the fourth season without Leonard. If they had her drunk one more time they should have staged an intervention, at least before she got drunk and tried to sleep with Raj. She is back with Leonard and she has only drank beer with Amy since. Her character has returned to the previous Penny and the writers seem to want to make a point of that.

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Penny feels insecure about her background / education as has been pointed out here. But the portrayal of her character never comes across as if she is stupid or dumb. There is an intelligence to her actions (generally) and how she deals with life even though she does not have the formal education / "piece of paper' to back it up. There are many reasons why Leonard would want to be with her besides her looks, if you look at the characters personalities they (in theory) balance each other out. Degree's dont necessarily define a person, look at how socially ignorant the guys were in season 1.

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I thought she stormed out during truth or dare was when they asked what would she do if some other female realizes what Penny sees, I think most of the time Leonard makes Penny's insecurities worse, as for Leonard his insecurities get in the way always wanted to be loved, not letting his proposal go and move on instead of what he did.

Penny never want's Leonard or anyone else to know how much she needs Leonard.

I think you are also right that Leonard often makes here insecurities worse because he has never explained to her why he loves HER so much. When she looks at the other women Leonard has had it really does not make sense.

I don't know about how much she needs Leonard that comes across as needy which she's not, for one we don't know not only why he wanted to date her much less why he loves her, or why she wants to be with him, but her actions overall in season 4 explained it and to Amy and Bernadette as well. Things were going great for the two and then Leonard messes things up. What do you mean by when she looks at the other women he's been with it doesn't make sense?

We saw Penny's insecurities come out in their first attempt at dating in the second season's "The Bad Fish Paradigm" in a dialog with Sheldon:

Penny: Okay, okay, you know, I get it, Leonard has no business being involved with a waitress slash actress who felt so insecure that she lied to him about finishing community college.

Sheldon: Why would you lie about that?

Penny: Well, he was going on and on about this college and that grad school and I didn’t want him to think I was some stupid loser.

Sheldon: You thought the opposite of stupid loser was community college graduate?

Just think of the other women Leonard has dated on the show for more than one episode. Also his family background vs hers. She has got to be at least puzzled why he fixates on her.

The show has as one of it sub-premises Leonard as the fixer of Penny's problems usually revolving around her scumbag boyfriends. They made her almost a drunken mess in the fourth season without Leonard. If they had her drunk one more time they should have staged an intervention, at least before she got drunk and tried to sleep with Raj. She is back with Leonard and she has only drank beer with Amy since. Her character has returned to the previous Penny and the writers seem to want to make a point of that.

I don't like how they've potryaed her when she's not with Leonard, like her life is only stable unless she's with Leonard, the fact she needs to be a relationship for her life to be stable, for some reason she reverts back to bad habits when she's single.

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What do you mean by when she looks at the other women he's been with it doesn't make sense?

I think the poster is talking about Penny feeling insecure about herself when she thinks about the other women Leonard has dated.

Like in that episode when she asked Sheldon about Leonard's previous girlfriends "has he ever dated someone who wasn't a complete brainiac?". Penny has a lot of insecurity going on with regards to her education and intelligence. That's why she freaked out the first time after they dated. She thought she wasn't smart enough for him.

Leonard has dated a woman with a PhD in French Literature (although for Sheldon it doesn't count since she was french LOL)

Joyce Kim (a north-corean spy -not anyone can be a spy btw-)

Leslie (Physicist)

Stephanie (Medical Doctor)

Priya (a respected Lawyer, who, according to Penny is a "sofisticated and sucessful woman who makes me feel like a toothless jockey" -i don't remember the exact quote but it was something like that-)

it is kinda obvious that she will feel insecure about it. Penny looks at that list and it must not make any sense why Leonard would want to be with her, when he's been with all those intelligent women.

Sorry you made me laugh. The expression is Toothless Oakie, not jockey. It was a derogatory name they called someone who migrated from Oklahoma during the great depression to the west coast. Denoting someone with no education or class, which is what educated sophisticated Priya made Penny feel like.


I don't know if he was trying for Bernadette. She grabbed his hand.

But, if given the chance, he would move on her in a heartbeat. This is why I voted for him as the least trustworthy of the bunch.

Yeah you nailed it. Don't leave your girlfriend near Raj. He is a total hound dog since season 4. He would jump any woman with no regard to whose she is. He has absolutely no sense of loyalty to anyone.

Except you're both way off, yes he had a thing for Bernadette it didn't go pass that, guys that you don't leave near your now wife do more than that so settle down.

No, I disagree. Raj has no sense of loyalty. His inability to connect has nothing to do with his intent. If he could have, he would have.

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I think that the reason that Penny seemed to fall apart when she stopped dating Leonard was because she felt that she had made a big mistake, she missed him, and she lived so close to him that she could see him with another women and knew every time he went out with her or spent the night with her. To add to her problems, she felt intimidated by Priya. If Priya was ugly, was uneducated, had a lousy career she might not feel so bad. Unfortunately for Penny, the guy she was having second thoughts about dumping had replaced her with a beautiful, educated, successful woman, and she more or less had her face rubbed in it almost daily.

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I think that the reason that Penny seemed to fall apart when she stopped dating Leonard was because she felt that she had made a big mistake, she missed him, and she lived so close to him that she could see him with another women and knew every time he went out with her or spent the night with her. To add to her problems, she felt intimidated by Priya. If Priya was ugly, was uneducated, had a lousy career she might not feel so bad. Unfortunately for Penny, the guy she was having second thoughts about dumping had replaced her with a beautiful, educated, successful woman, and she more or less had her face rubbed in it almost daily.

That's what I've been saying it's that she realized she might have realized she loved him, it's what he replaced her with.


Penny feels insecure about her background / education as has been pointed out here. But the portrayal of her character never comes across as if she is stupid or dumb. There is an intelligence to her actions (generally) and how she deals with life even though she does not have the formal education / "piece of paper' to back it up. There are many reasons why Leonard would want to be with her besides her looks, if you look at the characters personalities they (in theory) balance each other out. Degree's dont necessarily define a person, look at how socially ignorant the guys were in season 1.

She's not as smart as the guys but she's far from dumb, as far as I know there's only one reason for him dating her until it's revealed, unfortunately companies need someone with a piece of paper that says they're smart.


What do you mean by when she looks at the other women he's been with it doesn't make sense?

I think the poster is talking about Penny feeling insecure about herself when she thinks about the other women Leonard has dated.

Like in that episode when she asked Sheldon about Leonard's previous girlfriends "has he ever dated someone who wasn't a complete brainiac?". Penny has a lot of insecurity going on with regards to her education and intelligence. That's why she freaked out the first time after they dated. She thought she wasn't smart enough for him.

Leonard has dated a woman with a PhD in French Literature (although for Sheldon it doesn't count since she was french LOL)

Joyce Kim (a north-corean spy -not anyone can be a spy btw-)

Leslie (Physicist)

Stephanie (Medical Doctor)

Priya (a respected Lawyer, who, according to Penny is a "sofisticated and sucessful woman who makes me feel like a toothless jockey" -i don't remember the exact quote but it was something like that-)

it is kinda obvious that she will feel insecure about it. Penny looks at that list and it must not make any sense why Leonard would want to be with her, when he's been with all those intelligent women.

Sorry you made me laugh. The expression is Toothless Oakie, not jockey. It was a derogatory name they called someone who migrated from Oklahoma during the great depression to the west coast. Denoting someone with no education or class, which is what educated sophisticated Priya made Penny feel like.


I don't know if he was trying for Bernadette. She grabbed his hand.

But, if given the chance, he would move on her in a heartbeat. This is why I voted for him as the least trustworthy of the bunch.

Yeah you nailed it. Don't leave your girlfriend near Raj. He is a total hound dog since season 4. He would jump any woman with no regard to whose she is. He has absolutely no sense of loyalty to anyone.

Except you're both way off, yes he had a thing for Bernadette it didn't go pass that, guys that you don't leave near your now wife do more than that so settle down.

No, I disagree. Raj has no sense of loyalty. His inability to connect has nothing to do with his intent. If he could have, he would have.

I don't know why were discussing this, you're trying to make something out of nothing.

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Did anyone else notice that Raj was the only one of the group who actually seemed to care that Howard and Bernadette were getting married?

Leonard and Penny were constantly bickering about the proposal, Amy seemed to care more about her role as bridesmaid and Sheldon seemed to go back and forth about speaking in Klingon and joining into Leonard and Penny's little tiff.

It seems to me that this would be unpleasant for the "Season 1-3 shippers" as the whole marriage falls into the shows new "relationship dynamic", but would also be unpleasent for the "Season 4-5 shippers" because it didn't take the relationship side very seriously.

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I was very happy to see Penny take leonard's hand and intertwine her fingers with his which is how couples hold hands. This clearly tells me that Penny is committed to their relationship which is a great sign after what has transpired between these two the last 2 episodes.

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would also be unpleasent for the "Season 4-5 shippers" because it didn't take the relationship side very seriously.

I think you are underestimating the shallowness of it all.:icon_twisted:

All the Shamy has to do is hold hands, or the Shenny look at each other funny, and the shippers squeal in orgasmic joy.

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would also be unpleasent for the "Season 4-5 shippers" because it didn't take the relationship side very seriously.

I think you are underestimating the shallowness of it all.:icon_twisted:

All the Shamy has to do is hold hands, or the Shenny look at each other funny, and the shippers squeal in orgasmic joy.

It's funny. It has been expressed that last season's finale was controversial, but that this season's finale wasn't.

I feel that they were quite similar. Last year they broke the Raj character. This year they broke the Sheldon character.

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Her lack of education makes sense, and if they are going to continue to be together for season 6 I'd like to see this addressed not only why is Leonard with her but in love with her in the manner he is as well as why Penny wants to be with Leonard.

The biggest challenge for the writers in Season 6 is to bring some sort of reason to the L/P relationship. Their current state gives both of them only part of what they want:

- Penny has Leonard completely. She seems to brag about this. They have made her depended on him for order in her life and to boost her self worth. Her own father has even begged Leonard to "not give up on her" since he fears without Leonard, Penny will have an unhappy live in some trailer park. She is not likely to let him go now not after what we saw in season 4. But she is so confused about Leonard's reasons for loving her so much she is not likely to want to get married.

- Leonard feels he may have Penny but only on her terms. For a man who is suppose to be a genius he is clueless with Penny. Penny does hide her insecurities from him but she has left clues to how Leonard should allow her time to work her way through them. When he found out from Sheldon that she felt unworthy of him because of her lack of education, what does he do? He gives her a procure for the local Community College. She freaks out and he get their relationship its first breakup.

He just wants to marry Penny tomorrow and declare victory for his now five year old quest. But that quest does not include listening to her or noticing her need for an explanation for why he decided to bury her with love.

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It's funny. It has been expressed that last season's finale was controversial, but that this season's finale wasn't.

I feel that they were quite similar. Last year they broke the Raj character. This year they broke the Sheldon character.

I'm curious. Which part of the finale, in particular, did you feel as breaking Sheldon's character? His speech at the wedding, or the fact that he held Amy's hand?

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It's funny. It has been expressed that last season's finale was controversial, but that this season's finale wasn't.

I feel that they were quite similar. Last year they broke the Raj character. This year they broke the Sheldon character.

I'm curious. Which part of the finale, in particular, did you feel as breaking Sheldon's character? His speech at the wedding, or the fact that he held Amy's hand?

His speech at the wedding was quite in character. He was a dick.

The fact that he had to read his speech off of a cue card was completely outside of the character that he was even at the beginning of the episode. Eidetic memory? Yes or no? They can't have it both ways. Character broken? Yes.

Reaching out to hold Amy's hand? Character broken. Sure it indicates that his character has evolved and he is maturing and he has grown and blah, blah, blah. Some like this. I consider this an indication that they have broken him.

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It's funny. It has been expressed that last season's finale was controversial, but that this season's finale wasn't.

I feel that they were quite similar. Last year they broke the Raj character. This year they broke the Sheldon character.

I'm curious. Which part of the finale, in particular, did you feel as breaking Sheldon's character? His speech at the wedding, or the fact that he held Amy's hand?

I don't think they broke him the finale, it was a season-long breaking process that led to the gag-inducing hand-holding sequence. They've changed Sheldon from quirky and always hilarious to goofy and more often than not, unfunny. "Fun with Flags" is a perfect illustration.

And before the usual suspect chimes in - I still like the show, just not as much as I did in seasons 1-4. I realize that many consider that to be blasphemy but it's my honest opinion.

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