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5.24 The Countdown Reflection [Season Finale] (May 10)


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  1. 1. How do you rate the episode?



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Her lack of education makes sense, and if they are going to continue to be together for season 6 I'd like to see this addressed not only why is Leonard with her but in love with her in the manner he is as well as why Penny wants to be with Leonard.

The biggest challenge for the writers in Season 6 is to bring some sort of reason to the L/P relationship. Their current state gives both of them only part of what they want:

- Penny has Leonard completely. She seems to brag about this. They have made her depended on him for order in her life and to boost her self worth. Her own father has even begged Leonard to "not give up on her" since he fears without Leonard, Penny will have an unhappy live in some trailer park. She is not likely to let him go now not after what we saw in season 4. But she is so confused about Leonard's reasons for loving her so much she is not likely to want to get married.

- Leonard feels he may have Penny but only on her terms. For a man who is suppose to be a genius he is clueless with Penny. Penny does hide her insecurities from him but she has left clues to how Leonard should allow her time to work her way through them. When he found out from Sheldon that she felt unworthy of him because of her lack of education, what does he do? He gives her a procure for the local Community College. She freaks out and he get their relationship its first breakup.

He just wants to marry Penny tomorrow and declare victory for his now five year old quest. But that quest does not include listening to her or noticing her need for an explanation for why he decided to bury her with love.

I agree with you but the first time the didn't break up it was just one date they went out. I agree if Leonard marries her today he can say finally I got Penny the hot blonde across the hall, but can he say why he married her? Around Penny Leonard is very dumb the example you gave is very good one instead of reassuring her in some way and saying she doesn't need a dgree to date me, what does he do he does the last thing he should do and she had every right to do what she did and slammed the door in his face.

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Just been rewatching the ep recently and I know everyone focuses on Sheldon's hand-holding in terms of what it means regarding his relationship with Amy, and that's been discussed to death and is huge

Wheeeee! The finale is here! (Almost... ) I just can't wait. I'm so glad it looks like Howie is after all going into space. That will be super cool!

Lorre's vanity card for this episode was so touching. He talks about how he felt something so innately human about the final scene, the action of holding someone's hand conveying emotions, the need fo

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would also be unpleasent for the "Season 4-5 shippers" because it didn't take the relationship side very seriously.

I think you are underestimating the shallowness of it all.:icon_twisted:

All the Shamy has to do is hold hands, or the Shenny look at each other funny, and the shippers squeal in orgasmic joy.

.

Totally, fer shure!

It's all shallow and nothing, just something to spend that 1/2 hour with on Thursdays, instead of bowling, or walking the cat.

I needs to work on my Thursdays! :)

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I also never understand why they make Penny depended on Leonard so much or her life is a wreck.

I agree Raj was the only one that carried that howardcand Bernadette were getting married, the rest of the group was only caring about their problems.

Yes last yrs finale was contreversial this one wasn't.

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I don't think they broke him in the finale, it was a season-long breaking process that led to the gag-inducing hand-holding sequence. They've changed Sheldon from quirky and always hilarious to goofy and more often than not, unfunny. "Fun with Flags" is a perfect illustration.

And before the usual suspect chimes in - I still like the show, just not as much as I did in seasons 1-4. I realize that many consider that to be blasphemy but it's my honest opinion.

You have every right to your opinion and it is not blasphemous. Those who don't agree with it have no right to be threaten by it now that TBBT is the number one comedy on TV after this fifth season.

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It's funny. It has been expressed that last season's finale was controversial, but that this season's finale wasn't.

I feel that they were quite similar. Last year they broke the Raj character. This year they broke the Sheldon character.

I'm curious. Which part of the finale, in particular, did you feel as breaking Sheldon's character? His speech at the wedding, or the fact that he held Amy's hand?

I don't think they broke him the finale, it was a season-long breaking process that led to the gag-inducing hand-holding sequence. They've changed Sheldon from quirky and always hilarious to goofy and more often than not, unfunny. "Fun with Flags" is a perfect illustration.

And before the usual suspect chimes in - I still like the show, just not as much as I did in seasons 1-4. I realize that many consider that to be blasphemy but it's my honest opinion.

I saw season five as bending, bending, bending Sheldon. The final snap, for me, was the hand holding.

Leonard, on the other hand was broken gradually. They started the bending process in season four which continued through season five. Kind of like a green branch that is only half broken with all of the frayed splintery bits sticking out. His interaction with Penny over the last 2 episodes was awful.

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Hand holding without latex gloves, a joke that was made just 1 year ago. Season 5 was the worst season for anyone who understood the values for which the show stood for in Seasons 1-2. They can take the show in any direction they like, hell they can have Sheldon naked and covered in green jello by the time season 7-8 comes around, its their call. But you dont need 2 brain cells to see the difference in each character and the entire show as a whole when compared to seasons 1-2.

My opinion of course, but the show has gone downhill a lot more than people sometimes let themselves believe. The comedy has began to deplete big time simply because the situation that this whole world revolved around has been changed drastically in 3 years.

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Hand holding without latex gloves, a joke that was made just 1 year ago. Season 5 was the worst season for anyone who understood the values for which the show stood for in Seasons 1-2. They can take the show in any direction they like, hell they can have Sheldon naked and covered in green jello by the time season 7-8 comes around, its their call. But you dont need 2 brain cells to see the difference in each character and the entire show as a whole when compared to seasons 1-2.

My opinion of course, but the show has gone downhill a lot more than people sometimes let themselves believe. The comedy has began to deplete big time simply because the situation that this whole world revolved around has been changed drastically in 3 years.

TBBT started off as a cult hit with modest general ratings. The show centered on the two nerd guys and the girl next door plus the two nerd friend.

Season three which was L/P centric showed them they could attract a much larger audience if they made the show a more traditional comedy with romantic story lines and they added Bernadette and Amy. The more they went down that road the more the ratings exploded until now they are on top of the TV world. They are not about to turn back and I think everyone here knows that. No one turns down millions of bucks for the sake of fidelity to their original premise in seasons 1 and 2.

But bitching about their sell out for the money is most definitely allowed.

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I wonder if Sheldon will void the contract due to agreement upon hand holding?

well, he had in the agreement that they could hold hands for moral support during flu shots, so maybe he would consider this to be moral support hand holding?

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Hand holding without latex gloves, a joke that was made just 1 year ago. Season 5 was the worst season for anyone who understood the values for which the show stood for in Seasons 1-2. They can take the show in any direction they like, hell they can have Sheldon naked and covered in green jello by the time season 7-8 comes around, its their call. But you dont need 2 brain cells to see the difference in each character and the entire show as a whole when compared to seasons 1-2.

My opinion of course, but the show has gone downhill a lot more than people sometimes let themselves believe. The comedy has began to deplete big time simply because the situation that this whole world revolved around has been changed drastically in 3 years.

TBBT started off as a cult hit with modest general ratings. The show centered on the two nerd guys and the girl next door plus the two nerd friend.

Season three which was L/P centric showed them they could attract a much larger audience if they made the show a more traditional comedy with romantic story lines and they added Bernadette and Amy. The more they went down that road the more the ratings exploded until now they are on top of the TV world. They are not about to turn back and I think everyone here knows that. No one turns down millions of bucks for the sake of fidelity to their original premise in seasons 1 and 2.

But bitching about their sell out for the money is most definitely allowed.

I don't know why people are complaining about relationships now, they had to know Penny was going to date one of the nerds at some point, everything Leonard did was to get in her good graces so it would help his chance of dating her.

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It's funny. It has been expressed that last season's finale was controversial, but that this season's finale wasn't.

I feel that they were quite similar. Last year they broke the Raj character. This year they broke the Sheldon character.

I'm curious. Which part of the finale, in particular, did you feel as breaking Sheldon's character? His speech at the wedding, or the fact that he held Amy's hand?

His speech at the wedding was quite in character. He was a dick.

The fact that he had to read his speech off of a cue card was completely outside of the character that he was even at the beginning of the episode. Eidetic memory? Yes or no? They can't have it both ways. Character broken? Yes.

Reaching out to hold Amy's hand? Character broken. Sure it indicates that his character has evolved and he is maturing and he has grown and blah, blah, blah. Some like this. I consider this an indication that they have broken him.

The thought about the cue card didn't even occur to me! Maybe it was just his style, a symbolic gesture to be reading off the card because everyone else was - a part of the social convention.

I believe your actual problem is with the hand-holding. To which I have to agree with @djvang here that it's nothing special that happened in the finale. They have been building up to some degree of greater emotion and intimacy between Sheldon and Amy all through the season, and this was quite an expected step forward in that direction.

We may disagree on whether this is a good or bad thing for the character, but it's most certainly nowhere near as 'out of the blue' as the Raj/Penny situation in the season 4 finale was. And please don't tell me that Sheldon holding his girlfriend's hand after 6 months of being officially together is equally 'morally despicable'.


And before the usual suspect chimes in - I still like the show, just not as much as I did in seasons 1-4. I realize that many consider that to be blasphemy but it's my honest opinion.

Believe me, many of us have the same feeling here about daring to make the blasphemous statement that I like season 5. :)

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I don't know why everyone is complaining about the developement of the characters in season 5.Their still nerdy,their still incredibly intellegant but just a little less innocent.

1.Howard has changes from a horny,weird little man to a lovable,MARRIED astronaut.

2.Leonard has become less geeky and more daring but he still demonstrates innocence in his relationship with penny.

3.And last but definatly not least Sheldon have changed from a robot asexual genius into a genius who has a girlfriend who he is just finding out he has feelings for.

I think its just funny watching them all deal with these developements.

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The thought about the cue card didn't even occur to me! Maybe it was just his style, a symbolic gesture to be reading off the card because everyone else was - a part of the social convention.

Sheldon conforming to social convention? Now it really sounds like they've broken him. :icon_cheesygrin:

We may disagree on whether this is a good or bad thing for the character, but it's most certainly nowhere near as 'out of the blue' as the Raj/Penny situation in the season 4 finale was. And please don't tell me that Sheldon holding his girlfriend's hand after 6 months of being officially together is equally 'morally despicable'.

I agree. This was not 'out of the blue' or 'morally despicable' as was the Raj situation. It's just that they have taken the Sheldon character way far away in a direction that I find uninteresting and incongruous. The similarity between Raj's and Sheldon's situations is, to me, the fact that they have both been changed in ways that I think make them incompatible with the initial premise of the show.

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I don't know why everyone is complaining about the developement of the characters in season 5.Their still nerdy,their still incredibly intellegant but just a little less innocent.

1.Howard has changes from a horny,weird little man to a lovable,MARRIED astronaut.

2.Leonard has become less geeky and more daring but he still demonstrates innocence in his relationship with penny.

3.And last but definatly not least Sheldon have changed from a robot asexual genius into a genius who has a girlfriend who he is just finding out he has feelings for.

I think its just funny watching them all deal with these developements.

1. Pervy single Howard = funny. Unpervy married Howard = boring. No strippers at a bachelor party? He went from being a solicitor of prostitutes and having a stripper pole named after him to no strippers at a bachelor party? That's too much change for his character.

2. Leonard is the only character I would say has de-evolved. Not only has he not grown, he's shrunk. He still feels shame about who he is and the things he likes. He still has his nose so far up Penny's ass it's humiliating. After 5 years of knowing him, she still isn't sure if she wants to date him or not. Dude, Leonard, that is pathetic. You suck man.

3. Sheldon was a unique character. Now he is just a guy who is not good with girls. What trait did Sheldon posess that no other characters on TV had? He had no desire to be in a relationship of any kind. That was his only truly unique quality. And now it is gone.

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I don't know why everyone is complaining about the developement of the characters in season 5.Their still nerdy,their still incredibly intellegant but just a little less innocent.

1.Howard has changes from a horny,weird little man to a lovable,MARRIED astronaut.

2.Leonard has become less geeky and more daring but he still demonstrates innocence in his relationship with penny.

3.And last but definatly not least Sheldon have changed from a robot asexual genius into a genius who has a girlfriend who he is just finding out he has feelings for.

I think its just funny watching them all deal with these developements.

Just like with most things people either don't like change or are afraid of it


I don't know why everyone is complaining about the developement of the characters in season 5.Their still nerdy,their still incredibly intellegant but just a little less innocent.

1.Howard has changes from a horny,weird little man to a lovable,MARRIED astronaut.

2.Leonard has become less geeky and more daring but he still demonstrates innocence in his relationship with penny.

3.And last but definatly not least Sheldon have changed from a robot asexual genius into a genius who has a girlfriend who he is just finding out he has feelings for.

I think its just funny watching them all deal with these developements.

1. Pervy single Howard = funny. Unpervy married Howard = boring. No strippers at a bachelor party? He went from being a solicitor of prostitutes and having a stripper pole named after him to no strippers at a bachelor party? That's too much change for his character.

2. Leonard is the only character I would say has de-evolved. Not only has he not grown, he's shrunk. He still feels shame about who he is and the things he likes. He still has his nose so far up Penny's ass it's humiliating. After 5 years of knowing him, she still isn't sure if she wants to date him or not. Dude, Leonard, that is pathetic. You suck man.

3. Sheldon was a unique character. Now he is just a guy who is not good with girls. What trait did Sheldon posess that no other characters on TV had? He had no desire to be in a relationship of any kind. That was his only truly unique quality. And now it is gone.

1. It's too early to tell about Howard.

2. Leonard agree he's pathetic. Like I've said if you can't love yourself then don't expect someone else. If your ashamed of your hobbies no one else will be proud of them.

3. I wouldn't say Sheldon was no good with girls just had zero interest, because the women are sure drawn to him at times.

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The thought about the cue card didn't even occur to me! Maybe it was just his style, a symbolic gesture to be reading off the card because everyone else was - a part of the social convention.

Sheldon conforming to social convention? Now it really sounds like they've broken him. :icon_cheesygrin:

We may disagree on whether this is a good or bad thing for the character, but it's most certainly nowhere near as 'out of the blue' as the Raj/Penny situation in the season 4 finale was. And please don't tell me that Sheldon holding his girlfriend's hand after 6 months of being officially together is equally 'morally despicable'.

I agree. This was not 'out of the blue' or 'morally despicable' as was the Raj situation. It's just that they have taken the Sheldon character way far away in a direction that I find uninteresting and incongruous. The similarity between Raj's and Sheldon's situations is, to me, the fact that they have both been changed in ways that I think make them incompatible with the initial premise of the show.

I fully expect one day to turn on the show and Sheldon will be played by David Schwimmer and he will be on a break from Amy because he slept with the red head groupie from the earlier season.

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The thought about the cue card didn't even occur to me! Maybe it was just his style, a symbolic gesture to be reading off the card because everyone else was - a part of the social convention.

Sheldon conforming to social convention? Now it really sounds like they've broken him. :icon_cheesygrin:

Have you forgotten Peanut Reaction in season 1? Sheldon just had to be told once 'this is a non-optional social convention' and he agreed immediately. That's the way he's programmed (by Mary Cooper) - he looks down on social convention and is largely clueless about it, but he obeys instructions when he has to. In this case, he was already participating in a social event (a wedding), so he would of course do whatever he could to follow the protocol.

We may disagree on whether this is a good or bad thing for the character, but it's most certainly nowhere near as 'out of the blue' as the Raj/Penny situation in the season 4 finale was. And please don't tell me that Sheldon holding his girlfriend's hand after 6 months of being officially together is equally 'morally despicable'.

I agree. This was not 'out of the blue' or 'morally despicable' as was the Raj situation. It's just that they have taken the Sheldon character way far away in a direction that I find uninteresting and incongruous. The similarity between Raj's and Sheldon's situations is, to me, the fact that they have both been changed in ways that I think make them incompatible with the initial premise of the show.

Oh, that. Now of course we disagree on what the initial premise was and whether they're breaking it, but the above statement you make is logically sound.

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The thought about the cue card didn't even occur to me! Maybe it was just his style, a symbolic gesture to be reading off the card because everyone else was - a part of the social convention.

Sheldon conforming to social convention? Now it really sounds like they've broken him. :icon_cheesygrin:

We may disagree on whether this is a good or bad thing for the character, but it's most certainly nowhere near as 'out of the blue' as the Raj/Penny situation in the season 4 finale was. And please don't tell me that Sheldon holding his girlfriend's hand after 6 months of being officially together is equally 'morally despicable'.

I agree. This was not 'out of the blue' or 'morally despicable' as was the Raj situation. It's just that they have taken the Sheldon character way far away in a direction that I find uninteresting and incongruous. The similarity between Raj's and Sheldon's situations is, to me, the fact that they have both been changed in ways that I think make them incompatible with the initial premise of the show.

I fully expect one day to turn on the show and Sheldon will be played by David Schwimmer and he will be on a break from Amy because he slept with the red head groupie from the earlier season.

You're really comparing Amy and Sheldon to Ross and Rachel? Wow.

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3. Sheldon was a unique character. Now he is just a guy who is not good with girls. What trait did Sheldon posess that no other characters on TV had? He had no desire to be in a relationship of any kind. That was his only truly unique quality. And now it is gone.

Saying that a disinterest in relationships was the 'only truly unique quality' Sheldon had would be defining him too narrowly, I think.

In an interview during season 2, Ausiello asked Jim Parsons the question: 'what about Sheldon and women in general?' His reply was: 'Nobody's ever told me, but I think it's going to happen at some point. I say that because he is such an in-control character, so having him in an out-of-control moment.. it would be such a wonderful thing to play with him'.

That's precisely what they're doing now. The trick is to make that happen in a unique, Sheldonesque way, and I think they've so far succeeded in that.

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The thought about the cue card didn't even occur to me! Maybe it was just his style, a symbolic gesture to be reading off the card because everyone else was - a part of the social convention.

Sheldon conforming to social convention? Now it really sounds like they've broken him. :icon_cheesygrin:

We may disagree on whether this is a good or bad thing for the character, but it's most certainly nowhere near as 'out of the blue' as the Raj/Penny situation in the season 4 finale was. And please don't tell me that Sheldon holding his girlfriend's hand after 6 months of being officially together is equally 'morally despicable'.

I agree. This was not 'out of the blue' or 'morally despicable' as was the Raj situation. It's just that they have taken the Sheldon character way far away in a direction that I find uninteresting and incongruous. The similarity between Raj's and Sheldon's situations is, to me, the fact that they have both been changed in ways that I think make them incompatible with the initial premise of the show.

I fully expect one day to turn on the show and Sheldon will be played by David Schwimmer and he will be on a break from Amy because he slept with the red head groupie from the earlier season.

You're really comparing Amy and Sheldon to Ross and Rachel? Wow.

Well, not yet. As I said I expect it one day. I think they are going to take the relationship thing to an inevitable conclusion. It is getting them ratings.

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Guest I'm not dead Cheryl

Sheldon conforming to social convention? Now it really sounds like they've broken him. :icon_cheesygrin:

I agree. This was not 'out of the blue' or 'morally despicable' as was the Raj situation. It's just that they have taken the Sheldon character way far away in a direction that I find uninteresting and incongruous. The similarity between Raj's and Sheldon's situations is, to me, the fact that they have both been changed in ways that I think make them incompatible with the initial premise of the show.

I fully expect one day to turn on the show and Sheldon will be played by David Schwimmer and he will be on a break from Amy because he slept with the red head groupie from the earlier season.

You're really comparing Amy and Sheldon to Ross and Rachel? Wow.

Well, not yet. As I said I expect it one day. I think they are going to take the relationship thing to an inevitable conclusion. It is getting them ratings.

Oh, it WILL happen. Probably next season. I can already see the teasers - "Is this the night Sheldon and Amy finally realize their true love for each other?". And the Shamy's will be wild with ecstasy and the ratings will be huge and the shark will jump even higher. Then what?

the shark has died, it is not available for jumping anymore.

And second, if you think that if they do Sheldon and Amy act all lovey-dovey, wild and in ecstasy.. you are clearly not paying attention.

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Oh, it WILL happen. Probably next season. I can already see the teasers - "Is this the night Sheldon and Amy finally realize their true love for each other?". And the Shamy's will be wild with ecstasy and the ratings will be huge and the shark will jump even higher. Then what?

the shark has died, it is not available for jumping anymore.

And second, if you think that if they do Sheldon and Amy act all lovey-dovey, wild and in ecstasy.. you are clearly not paying attention.

This.

These two have reached a point of voluntary hand-holding after literally two years of being together - which is being looked at as a huge step for them. And yet they're being labeled a run-of-the-mill couple. Does this look like what couples usually do on-screen? In real life?

Or are you like Sheldon - 'Two years back I didn't know you, now I'm in your apartment after dark. How much faster can this thing go?' :D

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The thought about the cue card didn't even occur to me! Maybe it was just his style, a symbolic gesture to be reading off the card because everyone else was - a part of the social convention.

Sheldon conforming to social convention? Now it really sounds like they've broken him. :icon_cheesygrin:

We may disagree on whether this is a good or bad thing for the character, but it's most certainly nowhere near as 'out of the blue' as the Raj/Penny situation in the season 4 finale was. And please don't tell me that Sheldon holding his girlfriend's hand after 6 months of being officially together is equally 'morally despicable'.

I agree. This was not 'out of the blue' or 'morally despicable' as was the Raj situation. It's just that they have taken the Sheldon character way far away in a direction that I find uninteresting and incongruous. The similarity between Raj's and Sheldon's situations is, to me, the fact that they have both been changed in ways that I think make them incompatible with the initial premise of the show.

I fully expect one day to turn on the show and Sheldon will be played by David Schwimmer and he will be on a break from Amy because he slept with the red head groupie from the earlier season.

You're really comparing Amy and Sheldon to Ross and Rachel? Wow.

Well, not yet. As I said I expect it one day. I think they are going to take the relationship thing to an inevitable conclusion. It is getting them ratings.

There's no way you can compare them to Ross and Rachel they're the total opposite to them.


BS Leonard hate. It's funny.

It's not hate if it's true and the funny thing is most of what is said is true.

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I fully expect one day to turn on the show and Sheldon will be played by David Schwimmer and he will be on a break from Amy because he slept with the red head groupie from the earlier season.

You're really comparing Amy and Sheldon to Ross and Rachel? Wow.

Well, not yet. As I said I expect it one day. I think they are going to take the relationship thing to an inevitable conclusion. It is getting them ratings.

Oh, it WILL happen. Probably next season. I can already see the teasers - "Is this the night Sheldon and Amy finally realize their true love for each other?". And the Shamy's will be wild with ecstasy and the ratings will be huge and the shark will jump even higher. Then what?

the shark has died, it is not available for jumping anymore.

And second, if you think that if they do Sheldon and Amy act all lovey-dovey, wild and in ecstasy.. you are clearly not paying attention.

By Shamy's I don't mean Sheldon and Amy. I mean those who are are salivating over seeing them together.

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