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This shows decline.


Wulf3
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How can anyone say this show has not evolved? Sheldon actually held another human being's hand without prompting and fear of germs... a milestone!!

I have never watched the show for it's science leanings, I watch and love it for the comedy. I know what Star Wars is but have never actually seen any of the movies, yet I am a highly technical person working in software. Still know what the references mean, but never been in to sci-fi movies, comics, etc. ... just computers and tech.

But I still love a funny show, and this remains just that!

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I don't know. What I'm trying to say is, the viewer's disenchanment with the show may actually have LESS to do with the declining quality of the show, and MORE to do with the viewer simply losing interest in same 'ol, same 'ol.

That's an interesting point of view, given that the majority of complaints on this board are about the show NOT doing same 'ol, same 'ol. :)

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Guest I'm not dead Cheryl

How can anyone say this show has not evolved? Sheldon actually held another human being's hand without prompting and fear of germs... a milestone!!

I have never watched the show for it's science leanings, I watch and love it for the comedy. I know what Star Wars is but have never actually seen any of the movies, yet I am a highly technical person working in software. Still know what the references mean, but never been in to sci-fi movies, comics, etc. ... just computers and tech.

But I still love a funny show, and this remains just that!

I'm sorry, but I just can't help it... You have never seen a Star Wars movie!?!?! Oh, the Humanity!!! (FYI I had the same reaction this morning when someone told me he hadn't seen any of the Back to the Future movies)

LOL, now, joking aside, you should see them... it's Star Wars!

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How can anyone say this show has not evolved? Sheldon actually held another human being's hand without prompting and fear of germs... a milestone!!

I have never watched the show for it's science leanings, I watch and love it for the comedy. I know what Star Wars is but have never actually seen any of the movies, yet I am a highly technical person working in software. Still know what the references mean, but never been in to sci-fi movies, comics, etc. ... just computers and tech.

But I still love a funny show, and this remains just that!

I agree 1 million percent...The show is funny, the writers, actors and producers are brilliant...And yes to the Sheldon thing too...That was HUGE for him and I hope to see him written in that direction in Season 6 :);)

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I don't know. What I'm trying to say is, the viewer's disenchanment with the show may actually have LESS to do with the declining quality of the show, and MORE to do with the viewer simply losing interest in same 'ol, same 'ol.

That's an interesting point of view, given that the majority of complaints on this board are about the show NOT doing same 'ol, same 'ol. :)

True, the complaints are mostly about the "change", but is it really the evolution of the show that's driving the complaints? I'm not so sure.

After all, it's the same actors, similar jokes, similar situations, same show (albeit naturally evolved)... To tell for sure one would need to go back in the past, ERASE one's memory of the previous seasons, and then start watching completely afresh from the new season. If the viewer then gets hooked or bored, we'll have our answer on whether the show is truly in decline. :icon_cheesygrin:

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True, the complaints are mostly about the "change", but is it really the evolution of the show that's driving the complaints? I'm not so sure.

After all, it's the same actors, similar jokes, similar situations, same show (albeit naturally evolved)...

Same actors, but different characters. Not similar jokes, not similar situations, overall similar, but quite different same show.

For me the changes (evolution - growth - shark jumping - decline) are the problem.

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I just don't see Sheldon's evolution as evolution...for me he's taken a step backwards. Yes he's always behaved childishly at times but to go from what his character was in the first 4 seasons to some of the eps in s5 just seems ridiculous.

On another point, I've seen many comments that say Sheldon began changing in s4 but I never noticed this, could someone tell me what these changes were?

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True, the complaints are mostly about the "change", but is it really the evolution of the show that's driving the complaints? I'm not so sure.

After all, it's the same actors, similar jokes, similar situations, same show (albeit naturally evolved)...

Same actors, but different characters. Not similar jokes, not similar situations, overall similar, but quite different same show.

For me the changes (evolution - growth - shark jumping - decline) are the problem.

It's funny, because for me it's the opposite - I'm getting bored, and I think the reason is the "same 'ol, same 'ol" feeling. I know what to expect by now! And it's getting boring.

Sheldon will be socially clueless, Leonard will be whiny and insecure, Amy will hit on Penny and go "me-me-me", Penny will get drunk or high and jump into the sack, Raj will drink beer to overcome his mutism, Bernie will sound like Howard's mom, Penny and Leonard will fight and then make up, Amy will experiment on people, Howard's mom will shout from the behind the closed door...

I've seen it all, I LOL'ed the first few times, I chuckled the next few, now I need something else to keep my interest.

When I look back on season 5, what do I remember? Actually, very little. The earlier seasons are fresher in my mind - because they were NEW and therefore EXCITING! - but from last season?... Hmmm.

Lets see... Most of all, I remember Sheldon's playing bongos - that was unexpected and soooooo funny! And I also remember Howard's arc - his training to be an astronaunt, getting with a hooker in Vegas, getting married to Bernie... It's funny, isn't it? Sheldon's my favorite character, but I actually think the reason I did enjoy season 5 was mainly because of Howard, since I can't seem to remember anything else! :icon_eek:

Anyway, my conclusion is as follows: it's tough to write a comedy for several years! The jokes grow old, the situations grow old, the show becomes boring. And as a writer, you are caught between two types of fan - one like 4ofN, who doesn't like change, and one like me, who gets bored even when the show evolves. It's a no win! Poor writers.. :icon_lol::icon_cheesygrin:

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I agree with the OP. The show has gone downhill in my opinion. I liked the science.

Some say that characters need to evolve to keep interesting and Moonbase above even said that "the subject of nerd culture had a limited life span". I think that these things are only true for someone who isn't a nerd / geek / science lover. I think that nerd culture and science have an almost infinite range of possibilities and new storylines - but this is because this is my life and these things will always be of interest to me.

My position is that "the subjects of relationships and character growth have a limited life span". This stuff has been rehashed on a million shows so what could possibly be new about those? The only way to keep this stuff interesting is to keep pushing it more and more to the extreme. That’s how we get Penny and Raj hooking up, Amy hitting on Penny, Leonard turning into more and more of a douche, and the destruction of the Sheldon character.

I doubt that the show will get back to it's roots. They have made the characters, in my opinion, so unlikeable now. They have lost their original innocence.

Moonbase, again, made a good point that the show is now ABOUT nerds. I would go even further and say that the humour is now often at the expense of nerds rather than being made within the nerd culture. It's as if they know that the show is now aimed at a non-nerd audience who laugh when nerds do silly things (train engine in mouth) or who think it is funny when nerds get bullied.

Totally agree. Compare season 1 to season 5. even the dialogue is dumbded down to the norm

All television series evolve and grow, otherwise we would get bored and give up. I think that TBBT has grown in a sensible way, with the wedding of Leonard and Bernadette being a fitting ending for Series 5. If it has dissapointed you or you have lost your way with it, don't post anymore. Move onto something fresh and allow the remaining fans to have their fun.

Errr Hello...Simpsons, Frasier; 2 longest running series.. the characters didnt evolve...their situations may have changed but the characters remained the same throughout. 3rd rock from the sun also springs to mind. Those writers were able to make the comedy stay high class without having to "evolve" the characters. I think we all know that the evolution in this show is to soap up the characters so they will climb the ratings.

As I've said in another post, where did this rule come from that sitcom characters HAVE to evolve or the show is doomed to fail? It's Always Sunny is on its eight season and the characters are still the same, still in the exact same situation they were in in season 1. Seinfeld ended after 9 seasons with the characters still in the same situations they were in in the first season as well. Curb Your Enthusiasm is still mostly the same after 8 seasons. All of these shows were successful.

Bang on.

When I watch Curb your enthusiasm I don't expect characther growth. I just laugh. But I don't invest in the characters. I don't really care about them. Because they are almost cartoons. Because, like you said, they are not realistic.

Ta, daaa....yes, that's also why I watch comedy. Unfortunately with TBBT the laughs have become much scarcer due to the time spent on soap-opera plots in the last 2 years.

For example, Sheldon was perfectly content being single but, because some of the viewers think a romantic relationship is a pre-cursor for happiness and success in life, they expect the same for the character. The result is Sheldon acting OOC and losing much of what made him funny in the first place.

Possibly the best comedy character ever created is slowly being turned into a stock rom-com character. When I saw (or rather read in a taping report) thre last scene in se05 I decided,that was it for me with this show. I am going to leave after the summer break and remember Sheldon as he was rather than continue to watch his decline into comedy mediocrity.

Which can be refuted by at least 20 shows off the top of my head which major character growth. The Fresh Price, Family Matters, Cosby Show, Home Improvement, Simpsons, South Park, Family Guy, Married With Children, Murphy Brown, Boy Meets World, The Jeffersons, Happy Days, Flintstones, et. I could keep going, but you get my point.

I have highlighted the shows I know of and NONE of them show evolution of characher. The characters remained the same throughout the run. The only evolution was within episodes where the characters "learned a lesson" (standard feel-good ploy) but still retained their basic charachteristics throughout the lifetime of the show.

Anyway, my conclusion is as follows: it's tough to write a comedy for several years! The jokes grow old, the situations grow old, the show becomes boring. And as a writer, you are caught between two types of fan - one like 4ofN, who doesn't like change, and one like me, who gets bored even when the show evolves. It's a no win! Poor writers.. :icon_lol::icon_cheesygrin:

Well Frasier lasted 11 years and in my opinion was funny right until the end. Possibly because they werent trying to muck around with the characters....and just wrote jokes!

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There's something I don't fully understand about that complaint I oftenly come across, that the series is "mocking the nerds instead of celebrating them"

Curious thing is, the same complaint comes from people who wished the guys continued the same as they started, wich means, socially awkward and inept guys who spent their days whising they could get girls (at least three of them :icon_wink:) and, of course, not getting any.

Now, if we take Howard as an example, the man who used to be a no-luck creeper and who was all the time being mocked because he hadn't a doctorate, is advancing in his career and is even married with a woman (a fairly attractive, intelligent and succesful one) who loves him for real. And he has achieved all this by being himself, working hard, still wanting to play games with his friends and hanging out with them, keeping his comics and collection of figurines and his toy light sabers.

I wonder, how can this be intented as "mocking"?, wouldn't he be regarded more as a loser if he continued being the same old guy who is made fun of all the time and can't get a girl unless he pays for her?

Wouldn't be a sadder portrayal if fail after fail, they all ended up meeting to play their videogames since there's no other thing they could do, they are not "winners", they are not "normal", they can't get girls, they are just nerds?

Of course I'm not saying that the only way to 'redeem' the characters is to get them all married or to have girlfriends or to have a sucessful career, I don't even know if there's any 'need' to redeem them, I'm just saying that I utterly fail to see where the moking resides at.

Possibly the best comedy character ever created is slowly being turned into a stock rom-com character. When I saw (or rather read in a taping report) thre last scene in se05 I decided,that was it for me with this show. I am going to leave after the summer break and remember Sheldon as he was rather than continue to watch his decline into comedy mediocrity.

I'm a big fan of the character of Sheldon, but I wouldn't go that far to say he is "the best ever created", not even the most original one. He is very good, I agree, but in my opinion the biggest asset the show has with him is the excellent actor they have to play him (the same could be said about all the characters, actually, I'm singling out Jim because I think he is truly the best of an already very solid and talented cast, and because, well, we are talking about Sheldon)

Having said that, I don't think he is being "ruined" with the new developments he is going through, by the contrary, I feel they are expanding the range of situations and scenarios he can be involved in, before they ran out of the "Sheldon goes crazy, Sheldon annoys everyone around" they are experimenting with the "what if Sheldon were involved in a relationship?", some may like the idea, some may not, but the writers decided to experiment with it and they are the sole owners of their creation.

I must also say I'm so far liking the way said relationship is being handled, there's nothing stock rom-com about it as I see it, I don't recall having seen a quirky and odd relationship like the "ShAmy" in another sit com, past or recent, at least not one that I have seen.

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@sarah - great post. Especially agree with this.

Having said that, I don't think he is being "ruined" with the new developments he is going through, by the contrary, I feel they are expanding the range of situations and scenarios he can be involved in, before they ran out of the "Sheldon goes crazy, Sheldon annoys everyone around" they are experimenting with the "what if Sheldon were involved in a relationship?", some may like the idea, some may not, but the writers decided to experiment with it and they are the sole owners of their creation.

I must also say I'm so far liking the way said relationship is being handled, there's nothing stock rom-com about it as I see it, I don't recall having seen a quirky and odd relationship like the "ShAmy" in another sit com, past or recent, at least not one that I have seen.

Now, some people may not agree in principle with Sheldon being in a relationship at all, and that's a valid point of view; but for those who are calling the thing between him and Amy a 'stock cookie-cutter rom-com relationship', I really have to wonder whether we're even watching the same show. There are few things I've ever seen on screen, even on TBBT, which are as unique and as nerdy as this relationship is.

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This is TBBT. It's not Frazier, Friends, The Simpsons, or any other show. It is it's own unique show. The creators, producers, and writers, have decided on the path that the show is going to take. Evidently there are many who don't like it. Just as obvious, judging by the ratings, there are many more who do. Overall it would seem that as far as the popularity goes, the higher ups of the show are happy with the direction the show is taking and I seriously doubt if they are going to change horses in mid-stream. As for the constant complaint that the show has gone downhill since season 2 or 3, that means that these people have been unhappy with the show for several years now. Somehow I think that if they were that unsatisfied they would have stopped watching the show.

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These characters have changed, many of them significantly. I'm amazed by some who don't see that.

Penny knew/wanted ZERO to do with the science/geeky culture in the first few episodes. She's now had a deep relationship with L and calls several brilliant minds among her friends. No chance she has any of these types of friends years ago, or of she never moved in across the hall from L and S.

Sheldon, quite robotic/OCD/Aspie with the social skills of a rock now has a semi-girlfriend and only insults them (whether purposefully or as a by-product of his condition/wiring) part of the time.

Leonard had has several girlfriends and physical relationships with beauties, as well as being the leader of his peers when it comes to branching out socially/emotionally, or simply examining/explaining how the world works when people interact in ways the guys aren't familiar.

H has changed perhaps the most. Horndog Nerd with zero game who lived with his Mom write to obvious complex and Mommy Issues, he is now married to an brilliant beauty who loves him to death.

Raj has changed the least perhaps. He does complain about being single/Indian/lonely MORE now than before. Nothing major.

That said, for the show to continue to be successful, these characters need to CONTINUE growing. If Season 1 gags/situations were still the main focus with the characters in relatively the same mindset, I don't think I'd still be watching.

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but for those who are calling the thing between him and Amy a 'stock cookie-cutter rom-com relationship', I really have to wonder whether we're even watching the same show.

It is not , at the moment, but the last few epidodes have indicated that that's the direction season 6 will travel ...with Sheldon coping with his new-found feelings. Unlike most people here,that's not something I personally feel like watching. Well,you guys have fun next year.

This years main theme was Howard/Bernadette rom-com, next year will be Sheldon/Amy

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but for those who are calling the thing between him and Amy a 'stock cookie-cutter rom-com relationship', I really have to wonder whether we're even watching the same show.

It is not , at the moment, but the last few epidodes have indicated that that's the direction season 6 will travel ...with Sheldon coping with his new-found feelings. Unlike most people here,that's not something I personally feel like watching. Well,you guys have fun next year.

This years main theme was Howard/Bernadette rom-com, next year will be Sheldon/Amy

I'll be surprised (and a little disappointed) if Sheldon/Amy's relationship ever becomes as 'normal' as Howard/Bernadette is.

But yes, it's true that Sheldon's feelings and self-realizations might be in focus. To me, it will be interesting to see the full spectrum of possible machinations of that weird mind.

If that's not interesting to you - let's hope there will also be some other, more science/geek oriented storylines to satisfy those who prefer such. The writers are walking a fine balancing line here.

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I'll be surprised (and a little disappointed) if Sheldon/Amy's relationship ever becomes as 'normal' as Howard/Bernadette is.

But yes, it's true that Sheldon's feelings and self-realizations might be in focus. To me, it will be interesting to see the full spectrum of possible machinations of that weird mind.

It really comes down to the writers. Some know how to write the Sheldon character, some don't. The writers responsible for The Vacation Solution and The Launch Acceleration seem to have a good grasp of him and know how to evolve him in a way that doesn't shake the audience out of their suspension of disbelief. Whoever wrote the episode with Fun with Flags seemed to misinterpret him (and Amy) completely. I am looking forward to the next season with the hope that Sheldon will continue to be handled with kid gloves, and ideally move in the right direction so I can continue loving his antics and quirkiness on the show under a new paradigm (namely his relationship status).

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but for those who are calling the thing between him and Amy a 'stock cookie-cutter rom-com relationship', I really have to wonder whether we're even watching the same show.

It is not , at the moment, but the last few epidodes have indicated that that's the direction season 6 will travel ...with Sheldon coping with his new-found feelings. Unlike most people here,that's not something I personally feel like watching. Well,you guys have fun next year.

This years main theme was Howard/Bernadette rom-com, next year will be Sheldon/Amy

I'll be surprised (and a little disappointed) if Sheldon/Amy's relationship ever becomes as 'normal' as Howard/Bernadette is.

But yes, it's true that Sheldon's feelings and self-realizations might be in focus. To me, it will be interesting to see the full spectrum of possible machinations of that weird mind.

If that's not interesting to you - let's hope there will also be some other, more science/geek oriented storylines to satisfy those who prefer such. The writers are walking a fine balancing line here.

I think that one thing we can be sure of, any relationship that Sheldon is in will be far from normal.

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I haven't read the entire thread and I would like to add that I have enjoyed every season and in no way shape of form think this series is in decline. In fact I think this series is growing in all of the right directions.

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It really comes down to the writers. Some know how to write the Sheldon character, some don't. The writers responsible for The Vacation Solution and The Launch Acceleration seem to have a good grasp of him and know how to evolve him in a way that doesn't shake the audience out of their suspension of disbelief. Whoever wrote the episode with Fun with Flags seemed to misinterpret him (and Amy) completely. I am looking forward to the next season with the hope that Sheldon will continue to be handled with kid gloves, and ideally move in the right direction so I can continue loving his antics and quirkiness on the show under a new paradigm (namely his relationship status).

I think it's partly the directors, too - for example, in Stag Party Convergence it seems they pushed Jim to behave in an especially OOC way (for whatever reason), while in the last two episodes he was much more sedate and uptight.

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Anyone who did not think "fun with flags" fit Sheldon.... Why?

NOT whether you like the segment or not, or found it funny or not... Merely if you think the writers misinterpreted Sheldon --- Why?

To me it seemed like EXACTLY like something he would do. All 40 takes or whatever it was...

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Anyone who did not think "fun with flags" fit Sheldon.... Why?

NOT whether you like the segment or not, or found it funny or not... Merely if you think the writers misinterpreted Sheldon --- Why?

To me it seemed like EXACTLY like something he would do. All 40 takes or whatever it was...

I agree. The rigorous taping of a nerdy podcast, as well as dressing up in that way, were quite consistent with Sheldon's character. I did initially feel that the dressing up was a bit OOC for Amy, but then we have to remember that she has changed a lot since the time Sheldon lamented 'she's not the free spirit that I am'. :)

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Creativity without ratings = cancellation.

I don't like all of the changes. But the purpose of TBBT for CBS, the writers and producers is to make money. And to maximize the earnings while they're available to be made. Same with the actors. Who, btw, have become multi-millionaires from their TBBT earnings.

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Anyone who did not think "fun with flags" fit Sheldon.... Why?

NOT whether you like the segment or not, or found it funny or not... Merely if you think the writers misinterpreted Sheldon --- Why?

To me it seemed like EXACTLY like something he would do. All 40 takes or whatever it was...

I agree. The rigorous taping of a nerdy podcast, as well as dressing up in that way, were quite consistent with Sheldon's character. I did initially feel that the dressing up was a bit OOC for Amy, but then we have to remember that she has changed a lot since the time Sheldon lamented 'she's not the free spirit that I am'. :)

Here is my take, I don't know if other people who didn't like Fun with Flags will agree with me. For one thing, Sheldon has never mentioned in all 5 seasons that he has a deep interest in flags. The only time he ever mentioned a flag was when he made one for their apartment. To me, it sounded like the writers were thinking about what material to give Sheldon and went, "Hey, Sheldon mentioned he had a flag for their apartment, maybe we can write him in an episode where all he talks about is flags, because he clearly loves flags based on that one instance." And then he never mentions flags ever again after that. The OCDness of it was what his character would do, but why this subject? The costumes at the end also bothered me. While yes, Sheldon does wear costumes, that was always for cosplaying comic book characters and some such. The costumes he and Amy wore for Fun with Flags was just for cheap laughs from the writers, as in, "Ha ha, look how extreme they've gotten with their podcast! Don't they look ridiculous?!"

Best way to describe it, it showed Sheldon's personality, but not his character.

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