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Wulf3

This shows decline.

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The lollipop guild and those who watch soap operas? Really. What is hilarious about the crowd moaning and groaning about how terrible the show is and how it is now geared towards ussen dumb folk is YOU STILL WATCH IT. What does that make you people? At least we watch it because we LIKE it. How smart is anyone who watches a show they DON"T like? Duh!

They watch it for the same reason people watched Attack of the Clones after The Phantom Menace... wishful thinking that it'll get "better". =)

"Ouchhhh" And some of us are still looking for a big enough bandaide to stop the bleeding over that one :icon_lol:

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So on one side we've got the Lollipop Guild who get giddy over hand-holding and romantic relationships and want everyone to live happily ever after, and on the other side we've got cold, heartless brutes who don't care about the "happiness" of fictional characters and would condemn them to long fictional lives of loneliness and despair.

On the third side, I just want the show to be funny.

Which is in no way exclusive from either of the former two sets.

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So on one side we've got the Lollipop Guild who get giddy over hand-holding and romantic relationships and want everyone to live happily ever after, and on the other side we've got cold, heartless brutes who don't care about the "happiness" of fictional characters and would condemn them to long fictional lives of loneliness and despair.

On the third side, I just want the show to be funny.

Which is in no way exclusive from either of the former two sets.

Funny would be good. Howard is still occasionally funny. Sheldon is rarely funny, certainly not like he used to be. As to why I continue to watch, mostly out of longing for my favorite show. It isn't likely to return. They have a cash cow and they are selling it to a different audience than at the beginning. In my opinion it will continue to devlove into Friends Lite. I may hang on to see whether Leonard gets the girl in the end. That was after all the prime plot from the start. I will always be a Lenny Shipper.

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We all know he gets the girl in the end--the question is how well the journey is portrayed. So far they've done a tolerable (not perfect) job with that storyline. Had major issues with a lot of the season three relationship, but I think they found the plot again at episode 100.

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Funny would be good. Howard is still occasionally funny. Sheldon is rarely funny, certainly not like he used to be. As to why I continue to watch, mostly out of longing for my favorite show. It isn't likely to return. They have a cash cow and they are selling it to a different audience than at the beginning. In my opinion it will continue to devlove into Friends Lite. I may hang on to see whether Leonard gets the girl in the end. That was after all the prime plot from the start. I will always be a Lenny Shipper.

This is interesting. So it's okay to have the Leonard/Penny relationship on the show, and even to ship them, but if any of the other guys get into relationships it ruins the show and takes it away from the original premise; and if anyone dares to ship any other relationship on the show, that makes us one of the 'bad new Lollypop Guild' fans? (Even though Amy and Bernadette are actually nerds, while Penny isn't?)

Curioser and curioser. So what was the haloed 'original premise'? That Leonard gets the girl (Penny), while the other guys are all obligated to remain single forever, else they're not funny?

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I think the genuine fanbase are more forgiving of the writers allowing Leonard to have a gf (Penny) as it was always hinted that they would be together from the very first episode.

Things seemed to get a little crazy there during season 4.

I still maintain that a true fan of something is someone who can highlight, discuss and accept both the good and the bad.

For those that can only focus on one and not the other borders on the cusp of blind fanboyism/hater.

^ just my 2 cents at 3:15am. It's wet and cold at work atm.

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I think the genuine fanbase are more forgiving of the writers allowing Leonard to have a gf (Penny) as it was always hinted that they would be together from the very first episode.

Things seemed to get a little crazy there during season 4.

I still maintain that a true fan of something is someone who can highlight, discuss and accept both the good and the bad.

For those that can only focus on one and not the other borders on the cusp of blind fanboyism/hater.

^ just my 2 cents at 3:15am. It's wet and cold at work atm.

I was just pointing out the contradiction in saying that the show shouldn't focus on relationships at all because that isn't the original premise, and then saying that one favors (even ships) a certain relationship because it was there from the beginning.

Two other things:

Using the term 'genuine fanbase' for those who are disappointed with the show in its present form isn't nice, because it implies that those of us who still love the show are not genuine fans. As someone for whom this show is a part of my life (past, present and hopefully future), that doesn't sound right. Please do use 'older fanbase' or something like that.

And what are you doing at work at 3.15 am?

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I too was wondering just how does being dissatisfied with the show somehow makes a person a better fan or more intelligent? Claiming it doesn't make it so.

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Funny would be good. Howard is still occasionally funny. Sheldon is rarely funny, certainly not like he used to be. As to why I continue to watch, mostly out of longing for my favorite show. It isn't likely to return. They have a cash cow and they are selling it to a different audience than at the beginning. In my opinion it will continue to devlove into Friends Lite. I may hang on to see whether Leonard gets the girl in the end. That was after all the prime plot from the start. I will always be a Lenny Shipper.

This is interesting. So it's okay to have the Leonard/Penny relationship on the show, and even to ship them, but if any of the other guys get into relationships it ruins the show and takes it away from the original premise; and if anyone dares to ship any other relationship on the show, that makes us one of the 'bad new Lollypop Guild' fans? (Even though Amy and Bernadette are actually nerds, while Penny isn't?)

Curioser and curioser. So what was the haloed 'original premise'? That Leonard gets the girl (Penny), while the other guys are all obligated to remain single forever, else they're not funny?

No, for two years there was great comedy in Leonard not hooking up with Penny. It wasn't until they did hook up that the writers ran out of good ideas. Would have been better if the chase just went on. And I agree, there is nothing disingenuous about the people happy with the show the way it is. I am not totally unhappy with it. I just think moving the format from the original to one that more resembles, "Three's Company," was a bad move for comedy's sake. This was a very unique show about very special people and the things that make up their private world. Now it isn't. With the exception of Howard becoming and astronaut, a brilliant idea, in my opinion, there is little left to that private world. It's now only about relationships, and these people don't need to be Caltec brainiacs, they could all work in a bar in Boston.

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It sounds as though for some people watching the show has become a real chore. How unfortunate for them. Fortunately for me I am in the group of people who enjoy where the show has gone this season.

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Funny would be good. Howard is still occasionally funny. Sheldon is rarely funny, certainly not like he used to be. As to why I continue to watch, mostly out of longing for my favorite show. It isn't likely to return. They have a cash cow and they are selling it to a different audience than at the beginning. In my opinion it will continue to devlove into Friends Lite. I may hang on to see whether Leonard gets the girl in the end. That was after all the prime plot from the start. I will always be a Lenny Shipper.

This is interesting. So it's okay to have the Leonard/Penny relationship on the show, and even to ship them, but if any of the other guys get into relationships it ruins the show and takes it away from the original premise; and if anyone dares to ship any other relationship on the show, that makes us one of the 'bad new Lollypop Guild' fans? (Even though Amy and Bernadette are actually nerds, while Penny isn't?)

Curioser and curioser. So what was the haloed 'original premise'? That Leonard gets the girl (Penny), while the other guys are all obligated to remain single forever, else they're not funny?

No, for two years there was great comedy in Leonard not hooking up with Penny. It wasn't until they did hook up that the writers ran out of good ideas. Would have been better if the chase just went on. And I agree, there is nothing disingenuous about the people happy with the show the way it is. I am not totally unhappy with it. I just think moving the format from the original to one that more resembles, "Three's Company," was a bad move for comedy's sake. This was a very unique show about very special people and the things that make up their private world. Now it isn't. With the exception of Howard becoming and astronaut, a brilliant idea, in my opinion, there is little left to that private world. It's now only about relationships, and these people don't need to be Caltec brainiacs, they could all work in a bar in Boston.

After googling 'disingenuous', I'll say I'm ok with your comment. :)

As I've said often, I agree only partly to the allegation that the show is 'only' about relationships now. Yes, there is less highlight on their professional aspect now, which I believe largely reflects a phase that happens for most of us nerds in our late 20's/early 30's when we're just settling into new long-term relationships and trying to find our feet in that unfamiliar ground (but of course, if you don't want realism that's another matter).

But if they can spend one whole episode on Sheldon dreaming about Spock, and one on Sheldon going all out (even if unncessarily) for meeting Hawking and giving him his new paper, and one on how Howard very nearly gives up his relationship because it's coming in the way of his space-travel dreams, and one on how Sheldon jeopardizes his relationship for a Star Wars weekend.. then well, I'd say they still very much have their private world.

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@Pomita and Rick: so sorry guys.. for whatever reason I used the term "genuine fanbase" Reading back my post, I actually have no idea why I used that term. ??

I picked up a vibe in other threads that some people really dislike the Leonard/Penny relationship (I personally enjoy the pairing) and was attempting in some way to put across some kind of point that now eludes me totally some 24 hours later >< lolz

@Pomita: I work night shift (11pm to 7am) and had some time to kill.

Sorry again if my post came off as sounding negative. It wasn't my intention.

Still a very happy fan of the show.

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No problem at all, @netmouse. Anything is forgiven when you're at work at 3.15 a.m. :p (Another question: why was it wet and cold at work? That made it sound like you were Sherlock Holmes waiting all night on the moor or something).

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The show is evolving imo not declining.

Not all evolutionary changes are advantageous.

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Not all evolutionary changes are advantageous.

True. Personally, maybe it's the way I watched so many episodes so fast but I didn't see a real decline in any season. I still laughed, enjoyed the show and it's relationships. Also might help that I didn't give myself time to analyze each episode for a week lol.

I more meant that the show evolving allows it to appeal to a broader audience and I don't feel like they've sacrificed the show's core to do that.

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I more meant that the show evolving allows it to appeal to a broader audience and I don't feel like they've sacrificed the show's core to do that.

I agree with both parts of this statement.

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I think the people who watched the series in one straight shot have an advantage. I watched Season 1-4 in a row, and I thought the whole thing was great. Then when I started watching Season 5 one episode at a time on TV with everyone else, I felt like the show wasn't as funny as it used to be, and agreed with many of the complaints. I'm still enjoying an episode here and there, but nowhere as often as the previous seasons. I wonder if there's some kind of influence that comes with only watching one episode at a time that makes people overly critical. I'll see when I rewatch Seasons 1-5 again and see if it changes my perspective.

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It didn't seem to work that way for me, given that I watched all of seasons 1-3 at a go, and then seasons 4 and 5 one episode at a time, and I enjoyed the last two more, if anything. In fact, this may have been at least partly because I had more time to look forward to, savor and discuss each episode.

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Well for me, watching 100 + episodes in a week it was basically about whether I laughed or not...Do I like some older episodes more? Yeah but its not over thought analysis. I like certain aspects of the later seasons more then in earlier seasons that it like fuses the seasons together.

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It's very simple for me. I watched the entire series, one show at a time, and from the beginning of season 4 it has been less and less funny for me. I do occasionally laugh, mostly at Howard, but the side splitting constant laughter of the first 3 seasons has gone out of the show. Perhaps shifting to the, "Friends Lite," format has put the show in a realm the current writers cannot deal with effectively on a comedic basis. Considering their commercial success, I think they will continue down this path. They do, after all, have the laugh track Lorre insists doesn't exist and plenty of people who are enjoying the show as it is.

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I agree with the OP. The show has gone downhill in my opinion. I liked the science.

Some say that characters need to evolve to keep interesting and Moonbase above even said that "the subject of nerd culture had a limited life span". I think that these things are only true for someone who isn't a nerd / geek / science lover. I think that nerd culture and science have an almost infinite range of possibilities and new storylines - but this is because this is my life and these things will always be of interest to me.

My position is that "the subjects of relationships and character growth have a limited life span". This stuff has been rehashed on a million shows so what could possibly be new about those? The only way to keep this stuff interesting is to keep pushing it more and more to the extreme. That’s how we get Penny and Raj hooking up, Amy hitting on Penny, Leonard turning into more and more of a douche, and the destruction of the Sheldon character.

I doubt that the show will get back to it's roots. They have made the characters, in my opinion, so unlikeable now. They have lost their original innocence.

Moonbase, again, made a good point that the show is now ABOUT nerds. I would go even further and say that the humour is now often at the expense of nerds rather than being made within the nerd culture. It's as if they know that the show is now aimed at a non-nerd audience who laugh when nerds do silly things (train engine in mouth) or who think it is funny when nerds get bullied.

I agree with this a lot.

I was very hooked on the show when I first saw it seasons 1 - 3. I know the premise of the show does include 'two nerdy scientists who live across the hall from a beautiful girl' so naturally their would be some element of attempted relationships but that's what was funny about the first 1-3 seasons, especially season 1. Leonard was ATTEMPTING to relate to Penny but they were so different it was a little difficult but it was funny and sweet and you could root for them because most people can relate to that scenerio.

Problem is now... the show has turned into a relationship-fest. Everyone's gettin' with someone. Sure, Raj has had his difficulties but he's still 'gotten some' and he is the only exception. The introduction Amy's character was unique for a character like Sheldon who was more intellectual than emotional and the way their relationship was at first should have continued a lot longer. Why was it interesting and funny? Because it was different than most other relationships. Now it's basically just like ever other relationship. Probably a little less physical stuff but only Sheldon is the reason they aren't going further in that department yet.

I now no longer actually care about many of the characters. I don't like Leonard. To me, he's become more and more of a douche. He almost always looks really upset at anything Sheldon does or says which is kind of annoying at this point since they all know Sheldon likes to go on his rants. Maybe just sit and enjoy it!

Basically, I agree there is and was still a lot of geeky/nerdy/sciencey things they could have based the show on before they turned into "Friends".

The ending scene of this most recent season spelled it all out. It was sooooo cheesy I laughed at it. And I'm pretty sure that wasn't the time to laugh... when every character grabbed the hand of their 'partner'. At that point it was pretty obvious the show is at a point of no return. It was pretty obvious before that but that just solidified it. I would have much rather seen Sheldon say "I'm breaking up with you Amy." and Penny sees that jumps up and says "I'm breaking up with you Leonard."

THAT'S the twist that would make me eager to see next season.

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But didn't you hear the audience go "awwwwwwwwwwww" ? There are people out here who admitted to getting teary-eyed over the hand holding scene. THAT'S the crowd the writers are now appealing to. And there's a huge audience who loves that stuff.

Yes, of course, I did hear the audience go 'aww' but the studio audience pretty much had to. If they heard a bunch of smirks and gafs in the audience they'd have to stop the scene, do it again and tell people to go 'aww'.

A I understand that there must be a huge audience who loves that stuff but it is not what I really like to see. It's not the focus I want to see on the show and it's not the things that attracted me to the show in the first place.

Btw, their ratings have slipped a little through this last season and we'll have to see how the next season fairs but I have a sneaking suspicion that as much as there are people who like the way the show is changing their is a fair number of people who aren't liking the way the show is going thus some of the reason their ratings have dropped.

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So the studio audience were being pressured into going "awwwwwwww"? I have my doubts about that.

As for the ratings slipping "a little", after 5 seasons, surprise, surprise. How does it stack up against other programs? Is it making money? It is still one of the top rated shows. It is making money hand over fist. The show is still going great. Everyone can argue "what if". What if they hadn't brought in any other females and what if Penny and Leonard had never hooked up and Leonard still gave her those goofy love struck looks every time he saw and and especially while she was with other women. IMO the ratings would be in the tank by now had they done so. I think that the show is doing great and is on the right track.

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Guest I'm not dead Cheryl

the ratings "slipping"? this season has had the highest ratings in the history of the show. Where do you get the "ratings slipping" thing?

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