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ShellyBean

Old Sheldon vs New Sheldon

Which Sheldon do you like better?  

16 members have voted

  1. 1. Which Sheldon do you like better?

    • Old (seasons 1-3)
      31
    • New (seasons 4-5)
      20


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will they ever break up? (SHAMY)?

They might toy with them breaking up for a few shows but they'll end up together. The writers are now catering to the huge audience that loves romantic relationships and wants Amy and Sheldon to live happily ever after.

Nothing is impossible. If they split, I believe they'll put him with someone else. Leaving him single would be preferable but there's too much opportunity for new storylines to have him dating and as you wrote, the new audience wants love-action. Maybe the shenny's might even get their way, if Amy gets cut. Especially if they show goes beyond 7 seasons and they run out of material.

What or who is this "new audience" people are always talking about?

Though the show is more popular than it was in its first few seasons, that doesn't necessarily mean that all of a sudden there's a new group if fans pressuring the writers to go a certain way.

On message boards there may be a group that considers themselves the "original" audience with some kind of ownership of what they consider the "real" show, but the truth is that there will always be a wider audience out there that has never gone online to comment on what they like about the show, and the writers aren't doing opinion polls about what people want or don't want on the show.

So maybe there has been an "original"audience out there that is the same as whoever is perceived to be the "new" audience.

I'm not necessarily speaking to you personally--I just caught your mention of this supposed "new audience".

But I find this perception of old versus new kind of amusing and misinformed. :icon_wink:

It's not ridiculous to assume the fans who watched the show from day one were nerdy themselves. Most of my friends had no interest in TBBT five years ago because they didn't relate to the references. The show has definitely broadened its appeal and gained a new audience. I don't think that's misinformed at all.

But that doesn't mean that all of the so-called new audience aren't nerdy or geeky. I didn't start watching until about 2009-2010. I'd heard a few things about the show, but had never seen it--not because I wasn't interested, but because i didn't really know when it aired, etc.

So, technically I could be called a part of the new audience, but I'm also familiar with all the geeky references. One of the first things that cracked me up was how much I recognized in the references to CCGs, ST, Star Wars, scifi and conventions, etc.

But I also enjoy seeing the characters starting to grow as human beings, etc.

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@ Rick

I'm not saying it's a bad thing that the show has a broader audience. I'm still a big fan and like the new characters a lot, but I can also appreciate some fans don't. The nerd culture so a big draw for me, as much as the human side. It makes me laugh the most, but I don't expect everyone to share that opinion.

@ plantagrae

No it doesn't. I'm sure there are a lot new watchers who are attracted to the show because of its nerdy/science content. It makes it special for me. But equally there are loads of new fans who just like the jokes and relationships and are not nerds at all. We are outnumbered just generally, so it stands to reason.

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@phantagrae - I was going to praise your post highly again, but if I do much more of this I'll begin to sound as creepy as Amy towards Penny. :) You really take all the words out of my mouth/pen/keyboard (and some of my impassioned previous posts!)

@Moonbase - I just think 'new audience' is the wrong term to use, because it seems to imply some kind of replacement (and usually, from many posters here, contemptuously implies a replacement of the old 'smart' viewers with new 'dumb' viewers).

Certainly the viewership has gone up over the seasons, and part of the reason may be the inclusion of more consistent relationship storylines; but many of us who came in later are nerds/geeks ourselves, got drawn to TBBT precisely through that building-block of the show, and find the new seasons in no way lacking in that aspect, even if the total time devoted to showing the characters playing video games is now less. The essence is still very much there - the geek guys haven't all 'normalized' and I don't think they ever will. They're just leading normal geek lives, which almost always includes growing into relationships at some point.

For the same reason, a large number of the 'original fans' are still very much around and in love with the show, even if they're not on this forum.

So I would say that 'expanded audience' would be a nicer term to use.

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@phantagrae - I was going to praise your post highly again, but if I do much more of this I'll begin to sound as creepy as Amy towards Penny. :) You really take all the words out of my mouth/pen/keyboard (and some of my impassioned previous posts!)

@Moonbase - I just think 'new audience' is the wrong term to use, because it seems to imply some kind of replacement (and usually, from many posters here, contemptuously implies a replacement of the old 'smart' viewers with new 'dumb' viewers).

Certainly the viewership has gone up over the seasons, and part of the reason may be the inclusion of more consistent relationship storylines; but many of us who came in later are nerds/geeks ourselves, got drawn to TBBT precisely through that building-block of the show, and find the new seasons in no way lacking in that aspect, even if the total time devoted to showing the characters playing video games is now less. The essence is still very much there - the geek guys haven't all 'normalized' and I don't think they ever will. They're just leading normal geek lives, which almost always includes growing into relationships at some point.

For the same reason, a large number of the 'original fans' are still very much around and in love with the show, even if they're not on this forum.

So I would say that 'expanded audience' would be a nicer term to use.

Thanks for the kind words! :icon_wink:

I think that the growth in the audience is also related to CBS moving it to Thursday nights. I think the same thing happened with The X-Files when it was moved from Friday nights to Sunday nights--it was simply a better night for it to find more audience numbers. I before I started watching it, I had a student who was a fan and she would ask if I had watched it and I would tell her that Friday night was a TV wasteland--I figured there was nothing good on TV on Fridays.

I think that the show simply has a higher profile, but that doesn't mean that the growth and change in the characters is due to some kind of influence of any faction of the audience. I think that the majority of the audience for this show has probably never thought about posting any kind of feedback anywhere, but simply sit back and see what's going to happen next.

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Certainly the viewership has gone up over the seasons, and part of the reason may be the inclusion of more consistent relationship storylines; but many of us who came in later are nerds/geeks ourselves, got drawn to TBBT precisely through that building-block of the show, and find the new seasons in no way lacking in that aspect, even if the total time devoted to showing the characters playing video games is now less. The essence is still very much there - the geek guys haven't all 'normalized' and I don't think they ever will. They're just leading normal geek lives, which almost always includes growing into relationships at some point.

For the same reason, a large number of the 'original fans' are still very much around and in love with the show, even if they're not on this forum.

So I would say that 'expanded audience' would be a nicer term to use.

Wow, you think that is what I watch the show for? to see the guys on their laptops? I suppose this is all the nerd side means to some. :icon_neutral:

I am aware there are those who hate the relationship side of this show, I have never been one of them. But I am also aware that there are those who think the nerd side is irrelevant. It's been called a 'special flavour only' or something the characters will, of course, grow out of. That's something I can never get behind. Almost all of this shows humour is derived from the extreme nerdiness of these characters, their lifestyles and attitudes. The relationship side brings in the human aspect, so we care about them. Both sides are equal.

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You can complain all you want about the writers "catering" to the masses, but the harsh fact is that TBBT is not meant to be a work of art. It's goal is to get the highest ratings possible over an extended period of time. Ratings are important. They are not on PBS, they are CBS. The higher the ratings, the more they can charge for advertisement. Everyone has 3 basic choices when it comes to a television show 1) Stop Watching it. 2) Watch it 3) Write your own show. As reflected in the ratings, there are not enough people unhappy with the current direction of the show to cause the writers to change it. This also holds true to another vocal minority and that is the Shennys. A large majority of the viewers are dead set against such a pairing, as are TPTB, and will not happen. They will not go back to 4 scientists who have no girlfriends and just sit around the apartment.

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Certainly the viewership has gone up over the seasons, and part of the reason may be the inclusion of more consistent relationship storylines; but many of us who came in later are nerds/geeks ourselves, got drawn to TBBT precisely through that building-block of the show, and find the new seasons in no way lacking in that aspect, even if the total time devoted to showing the characters playing video games is now less. The essence is still very much there - the geek guys haven't all 'normalized' and I don't think they ever will. They're just leading normal geek lives, which almost always includes growing into relationships at some point.

For the same reason, a large number of the 'original fans' are still very much around and in love with the show, even if they're not on this forum.

So I would say that 'expanded audience' would be a nicer term to use.

Wow, you think that is what I watch the show for? to see the guys on their laptops? I suppose this is all the nerd side means to some. :icon_neutral:

I am aware there are those who hate the relationship side of this show, I have never been one of them. But I am also aware that there are those who think the nerd side is irrelevant. It's been called a 'special flavour only' or something the characters will, of course, grow out of. That's something I can never get behind. Almost all of this shows humour is derived from the extreme nerdiness of these characters, their lifestyles and attitudes. The relationship side brings in the human aspect, so we care about them. Both sides are equal.

I definitely think that the nerd aspect is more than just a "special flavoring" to these characters. Their nerdiness is what has colored their worldview as well as their success and/or failure at romantic relationships. I do think that the relationships with the girls is part of where the show was bound to go from the start, since that's what Penny's presence in the pilot--and Sheldon's prophetic statement--signified--that Penny's entrance into their lives was going to change everything for all of them.

I do think, though, that there is a group of fans here in these forums who think that the show should go back to the guys and their, as Mary Cooper might say, "science-y stuff", writing formulas on whiteboards and playing video game or other games, dressing up in costumes, etc, like what they term the "good old days", but the truth is that the show can never really go back to that place.

Just like the old saying, "Wedding bells are breaking up that old gang of mine", things are bound to change as people go through life.

And someone mentioned Seinfeld at some point as an example of characters that were able to continue in their status quo and not start getting married, etc., but I think that each show is unique and must honor the characters as they are.

The characters in Seinfeld weren't really looking to get married and settle down. They were mostly content to hook up, date for a while, then find some weird excuse to break up.

But on TBBT, the premise is different, and I think that the fans have to trust the vision that the creators and writers have for the show and for the characters, or else decide that the show is ultimately not for them.

I don't think that that I agree with rickfromillinois that the show isn't meant to be a work of art. While I do agree that a strong aspect of network TV is the business side of it--what kind of ratings can you deliver in order to make the show more profitable to everyone involved, if the show didn't have some truly artistic aspect to it, it wouldn't capture the audience as it has.

I think that there have probably been plenty of shows that were designed to try to cash in on the popularity of other hit shows by trying to somehow capture its secret formula, if you will. But it's not a matter of copying the recipe--it's more about being able to capture lightening in a bottle. And when you are able to do that, the audience will care about the characters and respond.

While you're (collective "you") never going to get every viewer to agree on every aspect of the show, I think I've found that TPTB have a good handle on who these characters are and what direction to take them. It may not please everyone, but even Jesus didn't do that. :icon_wink:

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Certainly the viewership has gone up over the seasons, and part of the reason may be the inclusion of more consistent relationship storylines; but many of us who came in later are nerds/geeks ourselves, got drawn to TBBT precisely through that building-block of the show, and find the new seasons in no way lacking in that aspect, even if the total time devoted to showing the characters playing video games is now less. The essence is still very much there - the geek guys haven't all 'normalized' and I don't think they ever will. They're just leading normal geek lives, which almost always includes growing into relationships at some point.

For the same reason, a large number of the 'original fans' are still very much around and in love with the show, even if they're not on this forum.

So I would say that 'expanded audience' would be a nicer term to use.

Wow, you think that is what I watch the show for? to see the guys on their laptops? I suppose this is all the nerd side means to some. :icon_neutral:

I am aware there are those who hate the relationship side of this show, I have never been one of them. But I am also aware that there are those who think the nerd side is irrelevant. It's been called a 'special flavour only' or something the characters will, of course, grow out of. That's something I can never get behind. Almost all of this shows humour is derived from the extreme nerdiness of these characters, their lifestyles and attitudes. The relationship side brings in the human aspect, so we care about them. Both sides are equal.

Bingo! That's why so many of us hate to see it going down the path of being just another dime-a-dozen show about romantic relationships. It's been done to death 500,000 times! The nerd humor of seasons 1-3 was unique.

But I don't see where the romantic relationships exclude the nerdiness of the characters. In fact, it's their nerdiness that colors pretty much every aspect of their relationships.

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Certainly the viewership has gone up over the seasons, and part of the reason may be the inclusion of more consistent relationship storylines; but many of us who came in later are nerds/geeks ourselves, got drawn to TBBT precisely through that building-block of the show, and find the new seasons in no way lacking in that aspect, even if the total time devoted to showing the characters playing video games is now less. The essence is still very much there - the geek guys haven't all 'normalized' and I don't think they ever will. They're just leading normal geek lives, which almost always includes growing into relationships at some point.

For the same reason, a large number of the 'original fans' are still very much around and in love with the show, even if they're not on this forum.

So I would say that 'expanded audience' would be a nicer term to use.

Wow, you think that is what I watch the show for? to see the guys on their laptops? I suppose this is all the nerd side means to some. :icon_neutral:

I am aware there are those who hate the relationship side of this show, I have never been one of them. But I am also aware that there are those who think the nerd side is irrelevant. It's been called a 'special flavour only' or something the characters will, of course, grow out of. That's something I can never get behind. Almost all of this shows humour is derived from the extreme nerdiness of these characters, their lifestyles and attitudes. The relationship side brings in the human aspect, so we care about them. Both sides are equal.

If you read the rest of my post, you will know that I didn't mean that the 'nerd side is irrelevant' at all. I can't help it if you insist on misunderstanding me based on one part of a sentence (by which I meant 'on-screen time devoted to nerdy activities' in general).

But I don't see where the romantic relationships exclude the nerdiness of the characters. In fact, it's their nerdiness that colors pretty much every aspect of their relationships.

As phantagrae says, I can't understand why some people feel that by nerds having relationships they lose their nerdiness. The entire premise and storylines of their relationships are exactly based on comedic situations and conflicts related to the extreme nerdiness of these characters, their lifestyles and attitudes. We don't see them hanging out with their girlfriends in bars and parties every night; we see them hanging out in labs and university cafeterias and telescope towers and 'science and society' conferences (or at Howard's home with his mom), if not at home around Leonard and Sheldon's table eating take-out. And they fight over physics vs biology or a gaming marathon or whether to go on a space trip.

I fail to see how their relationships have hugely 'normalized' them and made them 'run-of-the-mill sitcom characters'.

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But I don't see where the romantic relationships exclude the nerdiness of the characters. In fact, it's their nerdiness that colors pretty much every aspect of their relationships.

As phantagrae says, I can't understand why some people feel that by nerds having relationships they lose their nerdiness. The entire premise and storylines of their relationships are exactly based on comedic situations and conflicts related to the extreme nerdiness of these characters, their lifestyles and attitudes. We don't see them hanging out with their girlfriends in bars and parties every night; we see them hanging out in labs and university cafeterias and telescope towers and 'science and society' conferences (or at Howard's home with his mom), if not at home around Leonard and Sheldon's table eating take-out. And they fight over physics vs biology or a gaming marathon or whether to go on a space trip.

I fail to see how their relationships have hugely 'normalized' them and made them 'run-of-the-mill sitcom characters'.

It's because the stories on the show used to be based on the geekiness of the characters. It was unique and funny. Now I see everything revolving around the status of the romantic relationships. Will Leonard and Penny stay together? Will Sheldon and Amy have sex? Look how Howard has grown. Will Raj find someone? That's "Friends". It used to be limited to Leonard and Penny but now it's also Howard and Bernadette and worst of all Sheldon and Amy.

'Will Leonard Penny get together/stay together' has been there from the first day of the show, and is part of the premise. 'Will Raj find someone' was earlier 'will Howard and Raj find someone'; one of them did in 5 years, one of them hasn't yet, which is realistic. Regarding Sheldon/Amy, I know you hold a dislike towards them so I don't expect to convince you, but from an objective point of view they're just about the nerdiest couple ever seen on screen, so I maintain that their relationship is perfectly true to the geek flavor of the show.

They are fundamentally changing the principal premise of the show. I can understand why they're doing it. The actors and writers have become bored with the original premise, and there's a huge audience for romantic relationship shows. For those who wonder who the "new" audience is - there was a post a few months ago from a girl who said, "my girlfriends and I watch very week just hoping that Sheldon and Amy have sex. We can't wait for that to happen!!". THAT is the new audience that the writers are aiming for. And THAT is "Friends".

I'll repeat this. I'm sure there are such people who now watch only for these motives, and the show has facilitated that by including relationships; that is the EXPANDED audience. And since the show is still gloriously and delightfully geek-centric even in its depiction of relationships (as in other things), there are those like us who enjoy both sides and consider the show even better than before for being able to introduce new aspects while still maintaining its heart.

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It's because the stories on the show used to be based on the geekiness of the characters. It was unique and funny. Now I see everything revolving around the status of the romantic relationships. Will Leonard and Penny stay together? Will Sheldon and Amy have sex? Look how Howard has grown. Will Raj find someone? That's "Friends". It used to be limited to Leonard and Penny but now it's also Howard and Bernadette and worst of all Sheldon and Amy.

They are fundamentally changing the principal premise of the show. I can understand why they're doing it. The actors and writers have become bored with the original premise, and there's a huge audience for romantic relationship shows. For those who wonder who the "new" audience is - there was a post a few months ago from a girl who said, "my girlfriends and I watch very week just hoping that Sheldon and Amy have sex. We can't wait for that to happen!!". THAT is the new audience that the writers are aiming for. And THAT is "Friends".

But how many times can you have the guys arguing about comic book characters or playing video games or trying unsuccessfully to hit on women, and all the other nerdy things before you start going over exactly the same ground again and again?

I hear people saying they want a return to the "nerdy stuff", but what exactly do you propose that we didn't see in the first 3 years of the show?

The premise was always going to involve Leonard and Penny's relationship and how Penny's presence in the mix affected the guys and how they guys affected Penny's understanding of who and how they are.

So, relationships and romantic relationship were always part of the mix.

And if some girl and her girlfriends want to see Sheldon and Amy have sex, so what? Does that mean that that girl and her friends wouldn't also enjoy episodes about the guys geeking out over meeting Stan Lee, etc.? Do you know for sure that she and her friends weren't watching in the first 3 seasons?

And I'm sorry, but this show was always a version of "Friends", if you want to get down to it. It may have been colored by the geek factor, which affected how the guys lived and played and attempted to date.

Friends wasn't just about whether or not Ross and Rachel would get together, or Chandler and Monica getting together, but also about their job issues, their everyday lives, etc.

They hung out in the coffee shop or in Rachel and Monica's apartment, which is the equivalent of Leonard and Sheldon's apartment or the comic book store or the CalTech cafeteria.

You could even say that Joey in Friends is like Howard and find other similarities between the characters, even before Bernadette and Amy became regulars.

I think that it's obvious that the characters are going to grow and change as they get older, etc., and it's not implausible that these guys--especially considering Penny's influence in their lives--would eventually find relationships that work with their personalities.

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The show is what it is. The writers/directors are telling us a story. There will always be those who like and those who dislike how the story progresses. Fortunately we all have the option of not watching if the story gets to the point where it is no longer entertaining. The fact is that even nerds fall in love, get married, and have kids. That is not "Friends", that's LIFE. The humor is how the characters react to the different situations and each other as they progress through life.

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Certainly the viewership has gone up over the seasons, and part of the reason may be the inclusion of more consistent relationship storylines; but many of us who came in later are nerds/geeks ourselves, got drawn to TBBT precisely through that building-block of the show, and find the new seasons in no way lacking in that aspect, even if the total time devoted to showing the characters playing video games is now less. The essence is still very much there - the geek guys haven't all 'normalized' and I don't think they ever will. They're just leading normal geek lives, which almost always includes growing into relationships at some point.

For the same reason, a large number of the 'original fans' are still very much around and in love with the show, even if they're not on this forum.

So I would say that 'expanded audience' would be a nicer term to use.

Wow, you think that is what I watch the show for? to see the guys on their laptops? I suppose this is all the nerd side means to some. :icon_neutral:

I am aware there are those who hate the relationship side of this show, I have never been one of them. But I am also aware that there are those who think the nerd side is irrelevant. It's been called a 'special flavour only' or something the characters will, of course, grow out of. That's something I can never get behind. Almost all of this shows humour is derived from the extreme nerdiness of these characters, their lifestyles and attitudes. The relationship side brings in the human aspect, so we care about them. Both sides are equal.

If you read the rest of my post, you will know that I didn't mean that the 'nerd side is irrelevant' at all. I can't help it if you insist on misunderstanding me based on one part of a sentence (by which I meant 'on-screen time devoted to nerdy activities' in general).

Because that one sentence was so insufficient… and a tad patronising. I suppose you may not have intended it that way and I am being overly sensitive, but some fans are downplaying the importance of the nerd content. It's not just about activities, games, paint ball, 3-dim chess or card games. It's almost every aspect of the show. It's how the smallest detail is of enormous importance to these guys. The vast majority of their conversations and debates. This is the only logical way to live for them and they never question it's extremism. They go to ridiculous lengths to fight over a ring prop or identify a cricket. The 21 seconds of extra footage that's worth stealing film reels for. The language they use, everything from 'rock, paper, scissors, lizard, spock' to referring to sex as 'coitus'. How many of us have adopted these phrases? I think the relationships are great fun and I care about what happens, but I don't think it's why people love these characters so much. All shows have relationships on them. But no other show on TV has so many amazing nerds, freaks and weirdos in one place. You're lucky if you get one.

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Since the Pilot, the show is about relationships:

- Leonard and Penny

- Sheldon and the human being

- Raj and women

- Howard and sex

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Because that one sentence was so insufficient… and a tad patronising. I suppose you may not have intended it that way and I am being overly sensitive, but some fans are downplaying the importance of the nerd content. It's not just about activities, games, paint ball, 3-dim chess or card games. It's almost every aspect of the show. It's how the smallest detail is of enormous importance to these guys. The vast majority of their conversations and debates. This is the only logical way to live for them and they never question it's extremism. They go to ridiculous lengths to fight over a ring prop or identify a cricket. The 21 seconds of extra footage that's worth stealing film reels for. The language they use, everything from 'rock, paper, scissors, lizard, spock' to referring to sex as 'coitus'. How many of us have adopted these phrases? I think the relationships are great fun and I care about what happens, but I don't think it's why people love these characters so much. All shows have relationships on them. But no other show on TV has so many amazing nerds, freaks and weirdos in one place. You're lucky if you get one.

Sorry if it sounded like that.

But that (highlighted part) is exactly what I'm trying to say! 'Almost every aspect of the show', which get colored and influenced by their geekiness, their nitpicking, their awkwardness, their passions and esoteric interests, includes their relationships. They don't just talk and interact with each other using those paradigms, they also talk and interact with their romantic partners in the same way - sometimes they love it (being geeks themselves - 'his eidetic memory is so sexy'), and sometimes it leads to hilarious consequences.

I just don't understand why so many viewers look at the 'romantic relationship aspect' as something completely divorced from the rest of the reality of the show, when clearly from the side of the show and the writers, every effort is being made to integrate geek-specific humor, problems and awkwardness into the relationships themselves. It's as if there's a taboo or something - 'romance? girls? the horror! it's becoming a dumb generic sitcom!' - without looking at the specifics of how it's being portrayed.

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Because that one sentence was so insufficient… and a tad patronising. I suppose you may not have intended it that way and I am being overly sensitive, but some fans are downplaying the importance of the nerd content. It's not just about activities, games, paint ball, 3-dim chess or card games. It's almost every aspect of the show. It's how the smallest detail is of enormous importance to these guys. The vast majority of their conversations and debates. This is the only logical way to live for them and they never question it's extremism. They go to ridiculous lengths to fight over a ring prop or identify a cricket. The 21 seconds of extra footage that's worth stealing film reels for. The language they use, everything from 'rock, paper, scissors, lizard, spock' to referring to sex as 'coitus'. How many of us have adopted these phrases? I think the relationships are great fun and I care about what happens, but I don't think it's why people love these characters so much. All shows have relationships on them. But no other show on TV has so many amazing nerds, freaks and weirdos in one place. You're lucky if you get one.

Sorry if it sounded like that.

But that (highlighted part) is exactly what I'm trying to say! 'Almost every aspect of the show', which get colored and influenced by their geekiness, their nitpicking, their awkwardness, their passions and esoteric interests, includes their relationships. They don't just talk and interact with each other using those paradigms, they also talk and interact with their romantic partners in the same way - sometimes they love it (being geeks themselves - 'his eidetic memory is so sexy'), and sometimes it leads to hilarious consequences.

I just don't understand why so many viewers look at the 'romantic relationship aspect' as something completely divorced from the rest of the reality of the show, when clearly from the side of the show and the writers, every effort is being made to integrate geek-specific humor, problems and awkwardness into the relationships themselves. It's as if there's a taboo or something - 'romance? girls? the horror! it's becoming a dumb generic sitcom!' - without looking at the specifics of how it's being portrayed.

I kind of do understand why some viewers think this way. Sheldon and Amy going to a Brian Greene seminar to mock him and then conducting a social experiment is funny. But Sheldon and Amy having a disagreement about him going to her aunts party is not. It's all about content... for me anyway.

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I kind of do understand why some viewers think this way. Sheldon and Amy going to a Brian Greene seminar to mock him and then conducting a social experiment is funny. But Sheldon and Amy having a disagreement about him going to her aunts party is not. It's all about content... for me anyway.

I agree. Sheldon and Amy discussing the other characters as if they're observing lab specimens is funny. Amy tempting Sheldon with his favorite food to get him to like her more is not. Amy as a female version of Sheldon is funny. Desperate, needy, sex-starved Amy is not. Season 4 Amy was funny. Season 5 Amy was not. To me, it's all about what I consider to be funny.

Well, my question is always, how many times can they do this? How often can they conduct an experiment of their friends or go to a seminar to mock someone?

I see people lamenting the lack of nerd content, but it seems to me that they want only a very strict kind of nerd content, none of that icky kissing!!!

I think that the humor derives from the nature of the characters themselves, no matter what they're actually doing. To me, Amy's experiment on Sheldon was just as interesting and funny--and informative--as their experiment on their friends. And I think it was especially telling at the end when Sheldon said he was in hell, but didn't want Amy to stop.

Yeah, maybe there's slightly less high-nerd content, but these characters are getting older, growing up, and learning to integrate relationships into their lives.

With new characters come new ideas for storylines, but at their hearts the guys are still deeply nerdy--the guys wanting to spend a weekend gaming, for instance. But because they've grown, because they all, except poor Raj, all have women in their lives, they have to compromise or deal with the situation in a way they never had to before.

That's true with all people. I used to play Dungeons and Dragons with my college friends, but as life happened, we played less and less often until we just didn't play anymore.

I don't think the show will ever change these guys into "normal" people, but I also think that they won't go over the same ground again and again.

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Since when has this show gone over the same ground over and over? It hasn't. The show has always come up with original ideas, there's new tech coming out all the time and they are brilliant at researching and digging up nerdy stuff to plunder. Of course, they won't go to another Brian Greene seminar or do the same experiment on their friends again, but I have no doubt they could come up with plenty of other great stuff.

Relationship supporters think the nerd side will wind down, so it must be time for the kissing. :icon_cheesygrin: I said it myself once but I admit I was wrong, one doesn't have to be sacrificed for the other. I liked Amy's dinner experiment, it wasn't as funny as the social one but I still thought it was well done. I don't have the same objection to the relationships as some, but it has to be funny.

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Because that one sentence was so insufficient… and a tad patronising. I suppose you may not have intended it that way and I am being overly sensitive, but some fans are downplaying the importance of the nerd content. It's not just about activities, games, paint ball, 3-dim chess or card games. It's almost every aspect of the show. It's how the smallest detail is of enormous importance to these guys. The vast majority of their conversations and debates. This is the only logical way to live for them and they never question it's extremism. They go to ridiculous lengths to fight over a ring prop or identify a cricket. The 21 seconds of extra footage that's worth stealing film reels for. The language they use, everything from 'rock, paper, scissors, lizard, spock' to referring to sex as 'coitus'. How many of us have adopted these phrases? I think the relationships are great fun and I care about what happens, but I don't think it's why people love these characters so much. All shows have relationships on them. But no other show on TV has so many amazing nerds, freaks and weirdos in one place. You're lucky if you get one.

Sorry if it sounded like that.

But that (highlighted part) is exactly what I'm trying to say! 'Almost every aspect of the show', which get colored and influenced by their geekiness, their nitpicking, their awkwardness, their passions and esoteric interests, includes their relationships. They don't just talk and interact with each other using those paradigms, they also talk and interact with their romantic partners in the same way - sometimes they love it (being geeks themselves - 'his eidetic memory is so sexy'), and sometimes it leads to hilarious consequences.

I just don't understand why so many viewers look at the 'romantic relationship aspect' as something completely divorced from the rest of the reality of the show, when clearly from the side of the show and the writers, every effort is being made to integrate geek-specific humor, problems and awkwardness into the relationships themselves. It's as if there's a taboo or something - 'romance? girls? the horror! it's becoming a dumb generic sitcom!' - without looking at the specifics of how it's being portrayed.

I kind of do understand why some viewers think this way. Sheldon and Amy going to a Brian Greene seminar to mock him and then conducting a social experiment is funny. But Sheldon and Amy having a disagreement about him going to her aunts party is not. It's all about content... for me anyway.

I agree. Sheldon and Amy discussing the other characters as if they're observing lab specimens is funny. Amy tempting Sheldon with his favorite food to get him to like her more is not. Amy as a female version of Sheldon is funny. Desperate, needy, sex-starved Amy is not. Season 4 Amy was funny. Season 5 Amy was not. To me, it's all about what I consider to be funny.

I agree that Sheldon and Amy's gossip experiment was certainly nerdier humor (and Herb Garden, to this day, remains my favorite Sheldon/Amy episode, because it was the first time I really saw their potential). What made Amy's cooking for Sheldon also funny and appropriate to me was that she played it as an experiment, Sheldon referred to Ebbinghaus and they talked of transference. That's just what we would expect of them. Old wine, but definitely in a new nerdy bottle.

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If anyone has read any of my posts, you'd already know what I am about to write.

Season 1-3 Sheldon (and everyone else) is what I prefer.

It is the introduction of the now "regular" female characters, their female "circle", and the interaction with the guys (for the sake of creating "relationships") that caused the male characters that we knew and loved, to forcibly "adapt" (change) into what they have now become - regular and boring.

Bring the show back to its roots, let the show be about the guys being themselves, and let us laugh and enjoy the show again.

And BTW, Sheldon as a logic-centric robotic never-smiling genius was very unique and entertaining.

RIP Sheldon of Seasons 1-3.

Perfectly put.

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I voted new, even though I love both old and new equally. I'm okay with change. I think I'd get bored if Sheldon NEVER changed even just a little bit.

Monique

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