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Leonard Should Go Out With......


HeWolf
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somebody other than Penny.

The Leonard/Penny relationship is seriously flawed. It is missing a vital component, without which it is highly improbable that the relationship would be viable for the long haul. It is not chemistry, heat, passion, or sexual tension. It is not shared interests, goals, aspirations or lifelong hopes and dreams. They are not lacking in feelings, sentiment or shared enjoyment of being together. What they are missing is mutual respect for one another.

This is not unusual in relationships. Personally, I know several couples in relationships in which it is clear that one party does not respect the other. Safe to say, these couples experience a lot of strife and discord in their relationship. And, in every case, the person that is not respected is miserable, unappreciated and insecure. They continually look for some way, something they can do, to gain what they are missing from their partner; appreciation and respect.

Leonard and Penny are one of these couples. Leonard adores Penny and wants to please her. He wants to be accepted by her and wanted for who he is. Leonard wants to be an equal in their relationship. He is not. Penny takes Leonard for granted. When she didn’t have him, she wanted him. Whether that desire was genuine, or because someone else (Priya) had him is a question I cannot answer. But, when she got him back she resumed taking him for granted. This is not all Penny’s fault. Leonard is insecure and often lacking in backbone. He doesn’t invite respect. He lets Sheldon walk all over him and Penny has seen that for five years. And he has allowed her to do so as well.

Leonard is a genius. He is smarter than Penny and they both know it. Sadly, his knowledge base is built around subjects and interests that mean nothing to Penny. If he was a pop culture whiz she would be impressed. Penny knows that when it comes to the things that interest her, she is much smarter than Leonard. Yet, Penny is intimidated by Leonard’s intelligence. She is afraid he will not be happy with her because she is not educated. He has never said or even insinuated such a position but she still believes it. The only thing Leonard ever did was question the veracity of psychics and even then he weakened his stance.

Penny also knows how Leonard feels about her. He thinks (and rightly so) that he is lucky to be in a relationship with a girl that looks like Penny. She is the archetype of the girl that nerds like him dream about in the dark corners of their minds. When Leonard poses a hypothetical scenario in which he breaks up with Penny she derisively mocks the very idea. Guys like Leonard do not break up with girls like Penny. Not when they’re lucky to even be noticed by someone like her.

Frequently the dominant people in these scenarios are narcissistic, domineering and controlling people. They maintain their dominance in the relationship by demeaning, criticizing and abusing the other person. I am not suggesting Penny is one of those people. SHE IS NOT! But, nonetheless, she cannot imagine Leonard ever ending a relationship with her. She does not see him as an equal. He cares for her and she knows he will be good to her. But he is in the relationship because she allows him to be. This is not a scenario in which two people decide they want to be together. This is a scenario where Leonard wants to be with Penny and she permits it. And he knows that to be the case.

This is not my way of suggesting that Penny should be with Sheldon. My views on that idea have been expressed many times on these forums. I am also not suggesting that Penny should leave the show. There is no reason why she cannot be the neighbor across the hall, have her own life, friends and relationships, and still have plenty of opportunities to interact with the guys. Leonard needs to grow up, be stronger emotionally, and find someone that will appreciate him for who he is. Right now, that is not Penny.

Hopefully, the writers have something in mind that will transform the Leonard/Penny relationship. I still believe that is the end game on TBBT. But, I would like to see them make it something that is believable, healthy and fulfilling for the two characters. Otherwise, break them up and let’s head in a different (non-Shenny) direction.

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Guest I'm not dead Cheryl

Agree. Either make Penny and Leonard both grow up and mature enough to have a meaningful relationship or split them up for good and allow Leonard to be with someone who wil love him, and respect him for who he is, and treating him as an equal. The same for Penny.

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Good points, agree with you here.

I have said the same thing over and in other threads on this forum. I'm tired of seeing Leonard go after Penny after she dumped him 2 times. It's time that a genius like Leonard realizes that they are not right for each other..what some of the fans of this show are forgetting is that when compared to Howard, Raj and Sheldon, Leonard is the only one for Penny, true, but they got nothing in common to make the relationship work.

Bring back Zack! He is the perfect one for Penny.

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Excellent points all around, HeWolf. The respect issue is also why Penny and Sheldon would be a horrible pairing - he has zero respect for her and can't refrain from openly mocking her sub-Sheldon intelligence.

I think there's hope for Leonard and Penny though, if only because there is genuine affection there. While her attitude of "you're such a nerd I can't believe you like this silly stuff" doesn't show much respect, I believe much of that is also just there for the comedy. Ultimately, though, it's as you said - she knows she has the upper hand in the relationship. It'll be a great thing for both characters if the writers give Leonard more of a backbone - even to breaking up with her - and then give Penny a chance for some solid character growth as she realizes she's been taking him for granted. It's kind of already been done though with the Priya thing - making Penny realize she didn't know what she had till it was gone - so, it'll be interesting to see how their relationship progresses.

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somebody other than Penny.

The Leonard/Penny relationship is seriously flawed. It is missing a vital component, without which it is highly improbable that the relationship would be viable for the long haul. It is not chemistry, heat, passion, or sexual tension. It is not shared interests, goals, aspirations or lifelong hopes and dreams. They are not lacking in feelings, sentiment or shared enjoyment of being together. What they are missing is mutual respect for one another.

This is not unusual in relationships. Personally, I know several couples in relationships in which it is clear that one party does not respect the other. Safe to say, these couples experience a lot of strife and discord in their relationship. And, in every case, the person that is not respected is miserable, unappreciated and insecure. They continually look for some way, something they can do, to gain what they are missing from their partner; appreciation and respect.

Leonard and Penny are one of these couples. Leonard adores Penny and wants to please her. He wants to be accepted by her and wanted for who he is. Leonard wants to be an equal in their relationship. He is not. Penny takes Leonard for granted. When she didn’t have him, she wanted him. Whether that desire was genuine, or because someone else (Priya) had him is a question I cannot answer. But, when she got him back she resumed taking him for granted. This is not all Penny’s fault. Leonard is insecure and often lacking in backbone. He doesn’t invite respect. He lets Sheldon walk all over him and Penny has seen that for five years. And he has allowed her to do so as well.

Leonard is a genius. He is smarter than Penny and they both know it. Sadly, his knowledge base is built around subjects and interests that mean nothing to Penny. If he was a pop culture whiz she would be impressed. Penny knows that when it comes to the things that interest her, she is much smarter than Leonard. Yet, Penny is intimidated by Leonard’s intelligence. She is afraid he will not be happy with her because she is not educated. He has never said or even insinuated such a position but she still believes it. The only thing Leonard ever did was question the veracity of psychics and even then he weakened his stance.

Penny also knows how Leonard feels about her. He thinks (and rightly so) that he is lucky to be in a relationship with a girl that looks like Penny. She is the archetype of the girl that nerds like him dream about in the dark corners of their minds. When Leonard poses a hypothetical scenario in which he breaks up with Penny she derisively mocks the very idea. Guys like Leonard do not break up with girls like Penny. Not when they’re lucky to even be noticed by someone like her.

Frequently the dominant people in these scenarios are narcissistic, domineering and controlling people. They maintain their dominance in the relationship by demeaning, criticizing and abusing the other person. I am not suggesting Penny is one of those people. SHE IS NOT! But, nonetheless, she cannot imagine Leonard ever ending a relationship with her. She does not see him as an equal. He cares for her and she knows he will be good to her. But he is in the relationship because she allows him to be. This is not a scenario in which two people decide they want to be together. This is a scenario where Leonard wants to be with Penny and she permits it. And he knows that to be the case.

This is not my way of suggesting that Penny should be with Sheldon. My views on that idea have been expressed many times on these forums. I am also not suggesting that Penny should leave the show. There is no reason why she cannot be the neighbor across the hall, have her own life, friends and relationships, and still have plenty of opportunities to interact with the guys. Leonard needs to grow up, be stronger emotionally, and find someone that will appreciate him for who he is. Right now, that is not Penny.

Hopefully, the writers have something in mind that will transform the Leonard/Penny relationship. I still believe that is the end game on TBBT. But, I would like to see them make it something that is believable, healthy and fulfilling for the two characters. Otherwise, break them up and let’s head in a different (non-Shenny) direction.

I agree. Good post.

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I agree that Penny and Leonard seem to be at first glance, an "odd" couple. I think that a better match for Leonard would be"

1) The tatoo girl. She is smart, she is good looking, and she Leonard have allot in common, and she and Leonard had some real chemistry.

2) A far distant 2nd is Priya. She and Leonard do have much more in common as to some shared interests and education level.

3) Sheldon's twin sister. Because it would drive Sheldon crazy. Although in the past Sheldon had not shown any interest in who his sister dated, I think that if she was involved with Leonard he would would not be happy about it. As an added bonus, she has a unique way of dealing with Sheldon when he gives her a hard time, something that I think she would utilize if he was trying to bully Leonard.

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He should get with leslie winkle

Leslie really didn't treat him much differently than Penny.

And Sarah Gilbert has moved on to greener pastures. Not sure how they could get her back.

:icon_cheesygrin:

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HeWolf nailed this one dead on. Europa also has it right that there is some basis to build on there. I have never believed that "love", lust, or any sexually related term you want to use is what keeps people together. Not for the long term. It has to be something else. But, having been on the receiving end of a relationship where one person doesn't respect the other something has to happen there. Penny cannot keep on with this attitude. Right now Leonard is complaining about it. You can see that at the wedding. It's hard for people like Leonard to give up on a relationship but soon he will be ready to move on if Penny doesn't change her tune. But that's the problem, when Leonard finally admits to himself that it will never work then Penny is done and will never have a chance to come back. He was ready to move on when he hooked up with Priya but he hadn't admitted to himself yet that the relationship with Penny was over, not really.

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IMO, Leonard needs a therapist. First he needs to heal himself emotionally, then he can start looking for a girlfriend...

I agree... he needs to be proud of who he is and what he likes to do. From the first episode, he has been ashamed of himself, trying to hide the fact he is a nerd. But alot of it is Penny as well, with her little backhanded comments every now and then "we can do what Leonard wants to do or we can have a life". She needs to cut that crap out, it really makes me hate her character.

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The fact they got in to an argument at their friends wedding about their relationship, tells me there are still strong feelings there. Leonard is feeling more and more insecure about Penny's lack of commitment and who can blame him. She's a beautiful girl who could dump him anytime she liked. But Penny wants to take things slow, I'd go as far as to say she NEEDS too. I'm not sure why, but it's probably a new experience for her. She asked him 'don't let it get weird' and he couldn't stop himself. She needs to know he's really hearing her and seems to be testing him.

I still have hope for these two. I'll be interested to see how they pick up this relationship in season 6.

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She asked him 'don't let it get weird' and he couldn't stop himself.

There's only so many times I could hear a girl I was dating call our relationship "weird" before I'd just have enough of it and want out. She so clearly has one foot out the door and wants to keep her options open all the time. Leonard grows more and more pathetic each day he keeps letting her get away with it. When Bernie wronged Howard, he kicked her out of his house. Leonard, learn from Howard!!! Grow a pair!!!

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She asked him 'don't let it get weird' and he couldn't stop himself.

There's only so many times I could hear a girl I was dating call our relationship "weird" before I'd just have enough of it and want out. She so clearly has one foot out the door and wants to keep her options open all the time. Leonard grows more and more pathetic each day he keeps letting her get away with it. When Bernie wronged Howard, he kicked her out of his house. Leonard, learn from Howard!!! Grow a pair!!!

Penny would respond well if Leonard stood up to her. I was hoping he was going to give her an ultimatum in the finale, but unfortunately not yet. They seem to want to keep this dynamic where he is under her thumb going a bit longer. But she has told him she doesn't want a pushover, so eventually he has to get this... right?

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somebody other than Penny.

The Leonard/Penny relationship is seriously flawed. It is missing a vital component, without which it is highly improbable that the relationship would be viable for the long haul. It is not chemistry, heat, passion, or sexual tension. It is not shared interests, goals, aspirations or lifelong hopes and dreams. They are not lacking in feelings, sentiment or shared enjoyment of being together. What they are missing is mutual respect for one another.

This is not unusual in relationships. Personally, I know several couples in relationships in which it is clear that one party does not respect the other. Safe to say, these couples experience a lot of strife and discord in their relationship. And, in every case, the person that is not respected is miserable, unappreciated and insecure. They continually look for some way, something they can do, to gain what they are missing from their partner; appreciation and respect.

Leonard and Penny are one of these couples. Leonard adores Penny and wants to please her. He wants to be accepted by her and wanted for who he is. Leonard wants to be an equal in their relationship. He is not. Penny takes Leonard for granted. When she didn’t have him, she wanted him. Whether that desire was genuine, or because someone else (Priya) had him is a question I cannot answer. But, when she got him back she resumed taking him for granted. This is not all Penny’s fault. Leonard is insecure and often lacking in backbone. He doesn’t invite respect. He lets Sheldon walk all over him and Penny has seen that for five years. And he has allowed her to do so as well.

Leonard is a genius. He is smarter than Penny and they both know it. Sadly, his knowledge base is built around subjects and interests that mean nothing to Penny. If he was a pop culture whiz she would be impressed. Penny knows that when it comes to the things that interest her, she is much smarter than Leonard. Yet, Penny is intimidated by Leonard’s intelligence. She is afraid he will not be happy with her because she is not educated. He has never said or even insinuated such a position but she still believes it. The only thing Leonard ever did was question the veracity of psychics and even then he weakened his stance.

Penny also knows how Leonard feels about her. He thinks (and rightly so) that he is lucky to be in a relationship with a girl that looks like Penny. She is the archetype of the girl that nerds like him dream about in the dark corners of their minds. When Leonard poses a hypothetical scenario in which he breaks up with Penny she derisively mocks the very idea. Guys like Leonard do not break up with girls like Penny. Not when they’re lucky to even be noticed by someone like her.

Frequently the dominant people in these scenarios are narcissistic, domineering and controlling people. They maintain their dominance in the relationship by demeaning, criticizing and abusing the other person. I am not suggesting Penny is one of those people. SHE IS NOT! But, nonetheless, she cannot imagine Leonard ever ending a relationship with her. She does not see him as an equal. He cares for her and she knows he will be good to her. But he is in the relationship because she allows him to be. This is not a scenario in which two people decide they want to be together. This is a scenario where Leonard wants to be with Penny and she permits it. And he knows that to be the case.

This is not my way of suggesting that Penny should be with Sheldon. My views on that idea have been expressed many times on these forums. I am also not suggesting that Penny should leave the show. There is no reason why she cannot be the neighbor across the hall, have her own life, friends and relationships, and still have plenty of opportunities to interact with the guys. Leonard needs to grow up, be stronger emotionally, and find someone that will appreciate him for who he is. Right now, that is not Penny.

Hopefully, the writers have something in mind that will transform the Leonard/Penny relationship. I still believe that is the end game on TBBT. But, I would like to see them make it something that is believable, healthy and fulfilling for the two characters. Otherwise, break them up and let’s head in a different (non-Shenny) direction.

.

I agree with everything you say about Lenard & Penny. However Lenard represents every guy who has ever dreamed about having a beautiful Girl Friend. Because he is a nerd that has a Beautiful Girl Friend, he gives hope to every guy who now thinks they have a shot at a Beautiful Girl Friend.

.

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EDIT:

Hmmm, I think I take back part of my previous statement.

In the end of course, I still think, it's a show. And if the actors are convincing at making it look like they are in love, I'm cool with the relationship. But that only applies, in my mind, when the relationship is way more stable than what Leonard and Penny have now.

So I do agree both parties need to work on themselves and communicate more.

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Leonard may give hope to all nerds because he is dating a beautiful girl but he could inspire them if he stood up to including doing so to the point of dumping her. Leonard needs to establish boundaries even if only to himself and if and when Penny crosses it he tells her that he has had enough and breaks up with her. If she goes off on him again because he tells her that he loves her, then he should end it. Presently he is either a wimp for staying with Penny or he knows her better then she knows herself and he realizes that she does love him but refuses to admit it. He may be right. She started dating Leonard again and she didn't break up with him when he told told her that he loved her this time nor when he asked her to marry him. If she was really that upset with him she would have shown him the door and told him to never return.

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She asked him 'don't let it get weird' and he couldn't stop himself.

There's only so many times I could hear a girl I was dating call our relationship "weird" before I'd just have enough of it and want out. She so clearly has one foot out the door and wants to keep her options open all the time. Leonard grows more and more pathetic each day he keeps letting her get away with it. When Bernie wronged Howard, he kicked her out of his house. Leonard, learn from Howard!!! Grow a pair!!!

Penny would respond well if Leonard stood up to her. I was hoping he was going to give her an ultimatum in the finale, but unfortunately not yet. They seem to want to keep this dynamic where he is under her thumb going a bit longer. But she has told him she doesn't want a pushover, so eventually he has to get this... right?

good choice--penny did say in orinithophobia she like

a more asseritive leonard, in the hallway when they

came home.

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She asked him 'don't let it get weird' and he couldn't stop himself.

There's only so many times I could hear a girl I was dating call our relationship "weird" before I'd just have enough of it and want out. She so clearly has one foot out the door and wants to keep her options open all the time. Leonard grows more and more pathetic each day he keeps letting her get away with it. When Bernie wronged Howard, he kicked her out of his house. Leonard, learn from Howard!!! Grow a pair!!!

Penny would respond well if Leonard stood up to her. I was hoping he was going to give her an ultimatum in the finale, but unfortunately not yet. They seem to want to keep this dynamic where he is under her thumb going a bit longer. But she has told him she doesn't want a pushover, so eventually he has to get this... right?

good choice--penny did say in orinithophobia she like

a more asseritive leonard, in the hallway when they

came home.

Yeah, I think a lot of us would like to see Leonard be stronger and calm about it. He needs to tell her how it is and not keep chasing, I think the chasing could be what puts her off.

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Penny is not blameless in this relationship. Yes, it is Leonard's fault for letting her treat him that way, but she has to take at least partial responsibility for the way that she takes him for granted.

I think that eventually the show is going to have something happen to rectify this imbalance in their relationship. I lean towards the possibility that they will have something occur will make Penny realize that if she doesn't start appreciate Leonard as a boyfriend and start returning some of the emotional investment that he has given her, she may lose him.

I do not believe that Penny's statements where she appears to take Leonard for granted is a case of her simply having total faith in her boyfriend. I think it is more of a case where she believes that Leonard is "lucky" to have her as a girlfriend, she doesn't have to make any emotional investments in their relationship, and that there no way that he could ever find someone as good, let alone better, then her.

No one should ever be in a one way relationship where their partner does not return their love. As it stands now, I believe that either Leonard thinks that someday Penny will love him or that she does now and just has problems expressing it. Her continuing to hang out at his apartment when they broke up, then got back together with him, and then although she got upset when he told her that he loves her again and then later asked her to marry him but she still remains in a relationship with him must be very confusing. I wouldn't be very surprised if they have Leonard once again telling Penny that he loves her, she blows up again, and they have him re-evaluating their relationship, and deciding to end it. He may look for someone else who will love him, or decide to move to a job in another location. Then it will have to be up to Penny to do some self evaluation and discover just how strongly she does feel for him.

Frankly although the show's premise started off with the Nerd trying to get the hot girl, I wouldn't have any problem if Penny and Leonard just broke up and they both went their separate ways never to get back together again. To me it is becoming painful to watch Penny and Leonard's interaction.

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Penny is not blameless in this relationship. Yes, it is Leonard's fault for letting her treat him that way, but she has to take at least partial responsibility for the way that she takes him for granted.

I think that eventually the show is going to have something happen to rectify this imbalance in their relationship. I lean towards the possibility that they will have something occur will make Penny realize that if she doesn't start appreciate Leonard as a boyfriend and start returning some of the emotional investment that he has given her, she may lose him.

I do not believe that Penny's statements where she appears to take Leonard for granted is a case of her simply having total faith in her boyfriend. I think it is more of a case where she believes that Leonard is "lucky" to have her as a girlfriend, she doesn't have to make any emotional investments in their relationship, and that there no way that he could ever find someone as good, let alone better, then her.

No one should ever be in a one way relationship where their partner does not return their love. As it stands now, I believe that either Leonard thinks that someday Penny will love him or that she does now and just has problems expressing it. Her continuing to hang out at his apartment when they broke up, then got back together with him, and then although she got upset when he told her that he loves her again and then later asked her to marry him but she still remains in a relationship with him must be very confusing. I wouldn't be very surprised if they have Leonard once again telling Penny that he loves her, she blows up again, and they have him re-evaluating their relationship, and deciding to end it. He may look for someone else who will love him, or decide to move to a job in another location. Then it will have to be up to Penny to do some self evaluation and discover just how strongly she does feel for him.

Frankly although the show's premise started off with the Nerd trying to get the hot girl, I wouldn't have any problem if Penny and Leonard just broke up and they both went their separate ways never to get back together again. To me it is becoming painful to watch Penny and Leonard's interaction.

I am a Lenny shipper but I have to agree it is tiring the way they are writing their relationship. Penny was so remorseful for having dumped Leonard and now is back to the same distance attitude that broke them up in the first place. I don't understand where the writers are going with this. And yes, it is painful to watch.

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