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mjc45

prady on season 6

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The mention of a relationship for Raj, I do hope that it is just his bonding with his new dog ......

Well, they did plenty of dog and peanut butter jokes on 2-1/2 men, so you are probably right.

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Haven't been here in a while. Looks like the same argument so doesn't matter. I saw it pointed out that relationships have always been a main part of the show, since the beginning, and the geeky sciencey stuff was subtext. A matter of opinion and not wrong. I would point out that for 3 years we had scientists who did geeky things, and yes they had relationships, broken relationships. Now we seem to be moving deeper into the stable, married, and what all relationships of your typical soap opera or run of the mill sitcom, that we have all been sickened by for years. Personally, I want my 4 geeks, who can't keep a girl, back. Yes, it was about their relationship (attempts) and the science was the background. It worked for me. I really don't want another soap opera or Friends for that matter. I liked my dysfunctional geeks and the cute dysfunctional girl next door. My bet is they ain't coming back.

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Haven't been here in a while. Looks like the same argument so doesn't matter. I saw it pointed out that relationships have always been a main part of the show, since the beginning, and the geeky sciencey stuff was subtext. A matter of opinion and not wrong. I would point out that for 3 years we had scientists who did geeky things, and yes they had relationships, broken relationships. Now we seem to be moving deeper into the stable, married, and what all relationships of your typical soap opera or run of the mill sitcom, that we have all been sickened by for years. Personally, I want my 4 geeks, who can't keep a girl, back. Yes, it was about their relationship (attempts) and the science was the background. It worked for me. I really don't want another soap opera or Friends for that matter. I liked my dysfunctional geeks and the cute dysfunctional girl next door. My bet is they ain't coming back.

So far, they all still seem pretty dysfunctional to me, even within relationships!

But I do feel that they need to continue including some storylines which deal with their job/science. They have had a fair number of geek culture-oriented episodes in season 4/5 too, but not that much of science-oriented ones.

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Haven't been here in a while. Looks like the same argument so doesn't matter. I saw it pointed out that relationships have always been a main part of the show, since the beginning, and the geeky sciencey stuff was subtext. A matter of opinion and not wrong. I would point out that for 3 years we had scientists who did geeky things, and yes they had relationships, broken relationships. Now we seem to be moving deeper into the stable, married, and what all relationships of your typical soap opera or run of the mill sitcom, that we have all been sickened by for years. Personally, I want my 4 geeks, who can't keep a girl, back. Yes, it was about their relationship (attempts) and the science was the background. It worked for me. I really don't want another soap opera or Friends for that matter. I liked my dysfunctional geeks and the cute dysfunctional girl next door. My bet is they ain't coming back.

So far, they all still seem pretty dysfunctional to me, even within relationships!

But I do feel that they need to continue including some storylines which deal with their job/science. They have had a fair number of geek culture-oriented episodes in season 4/5 too, but not that much of science-oriented ones.

I agree about the science, I want more of that too. I just saw 'Nova'' and laughed my posterior off at the dumb examples, thinking of Sheldon and Amy heckling Brian Greene, classic. And frankly the girls do 'girly' stuff; shopping,etc which is tiresome. There is girl geek culture; I wish they'd showcase that.

To me the big divide here, is that some guys (& it seems always to be men) want the show to be eternally about 4 incredibly smart male geeks, panting after the pretty dumb blonde.

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I agree about the science, I want more of that too. I just saw 'Nova'' and laughed my posterior off at the dumb examples, thinking of Sheldon and Amy heckling Brian Greene, classic. And frankly the girls do 'girly' stuff; shopping,etc which is tiresome. There is girl geek culture; I wish they'd showcase that.

To me the big divide here, is that some guys (& it seems always to be men) want the show to be eternally about 4 incredibly smart male geeks, panting after the pretty dumb blonde.

True, the females on the show include those with serious scientific interests, but none with gaming/comic-book interests. Personally I don't have a crib with that (since I'm the same), but there should be a balance on the show. I'm glad they at least brought in the character of Alice for once.

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To me the big divide here, is that some guys (& it seems always to be men) want the show to be eternally about 4 incredibly smart male geeks, panting after the pretty dumb blonde.

I think you hit the nail on the head. Us guys don't want much,

We just want some safe places where we can have fan discussions [about the pretty dumb blonde] without constantly being interrupted by snide put-downs.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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I think you hit the nail on the head. Us guys don't want much,

We just want some safe places where we can have fan discussions [about the pretty dumb blonde] without constantly being interrupted by snide put-downs.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That's a perfectly valid demand. I would contest this only on the grounds Penny isn't dumb.

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I think you hit the nail on the head. Us guys don't want much,

We just want some safe places where we can have fan discussions [about the pretty dumb blonde] without constantly being interrupted by snide put-downs.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That's a perfectly valid demand. I would contest this only on the grounds Penny isn't dumb.

I don't think Penny is dumb either but we now understand the issue; it's never really been science vs. relationships. It's not about science at all. It's about keeping the original fantasy of 4 unattractive guys yearning for the hot blonde neighbor & maybe getting lucky.

And I agree with Pomita that's entirely valid. Start up a thread. state your premise [the original fantasy] & enjoy yourselves.

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I think you hit the nail on the head. Us guys don't want much,

We just want some safe places where we can have fan discussions [about the pretty dumb blonde] without constantly being interrupted by snide put-downs.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That's a perfectly valid demand. I would contest this only on the grounds Penny isn't dumb.

I don't think Penny is dumb either but we now understand the issue; it's never really been science vs. relationships. It's not about science at all. It's about keeping the original fantasy of 4 unattractive guys yearning for the hot blonde neighbor & maybe getting lucky.

And I agree with Pomita that's entirely valid. Start up a thread. state your premise [the original fantasy] & enjoy yourselves.

You know, we might be getting somewhere with this. :) (Or not..)

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It's about keeping the original fantasy of 4 unattractive guys yearning for the hot blonde neighbor & maybe getting lucky.

This is Men 101. It bewilders me that some women don't get it. They need to read some more relationship self-help books.:icon_cheesygrin:

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I think you hit the nail on the head. Us guys don't want much,

We just want some safe places where we can have fan discussions [about the pretty dumb blonde] without constantly being interrupted by snide put-downs.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That's a perfectly valid demand. I would contest this only on the grounds Penny isn't dumb.

I don't think Penny is dumb either but we now understand the issue; it's never really been science vs. relationships. It's not about science at all. It's about keeping the original fantasy of 4 unattractive guys yearning for the hot blonde neighbor & maybe getting lucky.

And I agree with Pomita that's entirely valid. Start up a thread. state your premise [the original fantasy] & enjoy yourselves.

You know, we might be getting somewhere with this. :) (Or not..)

Not to rain on the humour parade, but just so this doesn't become "canon", I'd like to point out that this isn't it at all.

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I think you hit the nail on the head. Us guys don't want much, --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That's a perfectly valid demand. I would contest this only on the grounds Penny isn't dumb.

I don't think Penny is dumb either but we now understand the issue; it's never really been science vs. relationships. It's not about science at all. It's about keeping the original fantasy of 4 unattractive guys yearning for the hot blonde neighbor & maybe getting lucky.

And I agree with Pomita that's entirely valid. Start up a thread. state your premise [the original fantasy] & enjoy yourselves.

You know, we might be getting somewhere with this. :) (Or not..)

Not to rain on the humour parade, but just so this doesn't become "canon", I'd like to point out that this isn't it at all.

Speaking for yourself, of course, not everyone on the 'this show sucks now' side. :)

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Not to rain on the humour parade, but just so this doesn't become "canon", I'd like to point out that this isn't it at all.

I know, but its fun to dangle the male stereotype out there in front of an audience that is so eager to gobble it up.

Quote:

We just want some safe places where we can have fan discussions [about the pretty dumb blonde] without constantly being interrupted by snide put-downs.

This was just copied and pasted (minus the pretty dumb blonde part) from someone's post about how mean it is to disagree with the topic premise. It seems to have taken on a life of its own. And really, who can argue with that? After all, when you are on the short bus singing kumbaya, no one wants to hear from a party pooper that the bridge ahead is out.

Leonard (In bed with Penny): Every scenario I play out for you and me ends badly

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I got into the show due to the nerdiness, and the fact that I love pop-culture references, and probably most importantly...Sheldon's arrogant put-downs. general sarcasm and his character overall.

I have always found relationship aspect , dialogue and scenarios to be totally unfunny. After Amy became less like Sheldon and tried to move towards a more normal relationship ,her scenes also became totally unfunny to me. Some people find the relationship between Amy and Sheldon to be funny, but I cannot remember ANY of these scenes where I had a laugh. The same goes for ANY of the other romantic or relationship scenes between ANY of the characters.

The only things I found funny were the comments made by others about said relationships like the runniing gags about L/P at the beginning or Sheldons comments to Leonard if Leonard tried to discuss his problems with him.

I could put up with relationship scenes in the early days as the relationships were mainly dealt with by cast members talking about the failings of relationships. Once the protagonists actually got together themselves...no laughs....ever...as far as I can remember. And these scenes have become ever more frequent.

I predict I will see the plot summary for ep01 of se06, and not bother to watch it, for the first time in years.

BINGO !!!

I absolutely agree with you.

Relationships that come/go are ok in small doses, but the SHOW must revolve around the stereotypical nerds that we know and love.

It is THEIR trials, nerd culture, and REAL science that makes the show funny, entertaining, and UNIQUE.

I, too, will stop watching if I see that they have taken the show even farther away from its roots.

If I have to sit through relationship issues (the wet blanket that now covers the show), I will walk away from the show - and let the people who crave "romantic-comedy-formula" garbage to enjoy what this once-great show has become.

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I got into the show due to the nerdiness, and the fact that I love pop-culture references, and probably most importantly...Sheldon's arrogant put-downs. general sarcasm and his character overall.

I have always found relationship aspect , dialogue and scenarios to be totally unfunny. After Amy became less like Sheldon and tried to move towards a more normal relationship ,her scenes also became totally unfunny to me. Some people find the relationship between Amy and Sheldon to be funny, but I cannot remember ANY of these scenes where I had a laugh. The same goes for ANY of the other romantic or relationship scenes between ANY of the characters.

The only things I found funny were the comments made by others about said relationships like the runniing gags about L/P at the beginning or Sheldons comments to Leonard if Leonard tried to discuss his problems with him.

I could put up with relationship scenes in the early days as the relationships were mainly dealt with by cast members talking about the failings of relationships. Once the protagonists actually got together themselves...no laughs....ever...as far as I can remember. And these scenes have become ever more frequent.

I predict I will see the plot summary for ep01 of se06, and not bother to watch it, for the first time in years.

BINGO !!!

I absolutely agree with you.

Relationships that come/go are ok in small doses, but the SHOW must revolve around the stereotypical nerds that we know and love.

It is THEIR trials, nerd culture, and REAL science that makes the show funny, entertaining, and UNIQUE.

I, too, will stop watching if I see that they have taken the show even farther away from its roots.

If I have to sit through relationship issues (the wet blanket that now covers the show), I will walk away from the show - and let the people who crave "romantic-comedy-formula" garbage to enjoy what this once-great show has become.

Double agreement, with both of you!

smeghead described almost exactly what got me into the show and got me to like it.

The focus the show has taken to relationships has turned me off. Every episode that is focused more on some relationship or hook up is mostly garbage and is only usually funny when Sheldon or someone make a sarcastic or snide remark that embarasses Leonard or whoever is attempting to make a move.

I'm actually quite dissapointed when I read that ratings have gone UP with the show since Season 3 and best ratings have been this last season which I felt was very lack luster.

There are WAY too many sit coms that deal heavily with boy/girl relationships that I enjoy shows where I see less of it.

Community and Parks & Recreation are good examples. Both shows are funny and yes, there are some relationships but they hardly control most of the story and there isn't all this jumping into bed and sex talk that is included in too many sitcoms already.

I think those of us who were looking for a show about nerd culture, pop culture references, a brilliant, egotistical, condescending but adorable character have to just hold on to Big Bang Theory Seasons 1-3 and realize that most of what comes after that should be called: The Relationship Theory.

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I find it amusing that when real science is brought up here: Fermilab, the Mars Rover, what happened at CERN, sciencey guests eg; Margherita Hack there is absolutely no discussion from the moaners who complain the show is losing its science focus.

So they either just like to complain or as we'd discussed they really want the show to go back to the original fantasy of the 4 nerdy guys, 3 of whom lust after the 'dumb' hot blonde neighbor....

as we also said; hey they're entitled, just say so, instead of this endless round.

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The focus the show has taken to relationships has turned me off. Every episode that is focused more on some relationship or hook up is mostly garbage and is only usually funny when Sheldon or someone make a sarcastic or snide remark that embarasses Leonard or whoever is attempting to make a move.

I'm actually quite dissapointed when I read that ratings have gone UP with the show since Season 3 and best ratings have been this last season which I felt was very lack luster.

There are WAY too many sit coms that deal heavily with boy/girl relationships that I enjoy shows where I see less of it.

Community and Parks & Recreation are good examples. Both shows are funny and yes, there are some relationships but they hardly control most of the story and there isn't all this jumping into bed and sex talk that is included in too many sitcoms already.

I think those of us who were looking for a show about nerd culture, pop culture references, a brilliant, egotistical, condescending but adorable character have to just hold on to Big Bang Theory Seasons 1-3 and realize that most of what comes after that should be called: The Relationship Theory.

Not much you can do but view DVDs of seasons 1 and 2. Season 3 started Leonard and Penny's sexual relationship and introduced Bernadette to Howard and Amy to Sheldon, so that would be the great divide.

Complaining in this forum can release some frustration but little else. The producers are not going back to seasons 1 and 2, not when season 5's formula generated nearly three million new viewers, an almost unheard of bounce for a show this late in its run. Not to mention all those Emmy nominations for this season. No case can be made to the larger public that TBBT should scrap it current direction for the less successful past, at least not with out being met with derision.

So, get those old DVDs in order, to paraphrase Princess Leia: "They're your only hope".

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What I find funny is that things that made me laugh and enjoy the show in the beginning like when there was a scene with the boys doing a 'nerdy' activity (Klingon boggle, playing Halo, playing rock band, etc.) or when Sheldon was being condescending to Leonard or Penny (not really intentionally but because he didn't really know better or thought he was helping) that is what I liked about the show.

I even sympathized with Leonard and his situation of trying to expand his horizons and social circle and establish a better relationship with the hot girl across the hall. At that time Howard was overly outgoing but adorable and same for Raj who was the opposite (too shy but adorable). At that time in the show I could say I actually cared about the characters ...

But now...

Leonard has 'got with' Penny dozens of times including a handfull of other hot women but has been so back and forth with Penny he's become more of a douche than a sweet guy.

Penny isn't this 'innocent simple girl from the mid-west', she doesn't know what she is. Nothing has really worked out for her but she brought a lot of it on herself.

Howard has grown and is more mature. I'll admit it feels like a reasonable progression seeing as he found the only woman in the world who could stand him. But the problem for me with the (pretty) solid Howard and Bernadette relationship is that it feels like 'funny' situations are forced because really most of the time should be all good and anytime Howard does something that makes it hard on himself or his relationship it seems very forced.

Raj is still basically in the same position as he was at the start of the show. No real progression there. In a sense, he is one of the most realistic characters on the show because if he really does have some psychological selective mutism it probably is very hard to overcome. But his lack of a steady girlfriend every more so than SHELDON of all people is the paradox of the show that seems a little ridiculous.

Sheldon he DE-volved in my opinion. He shows more signs of stupidity and childishness than he ever did in the first 2 or 3 seasons. His pairing with Amy was intitally very interesting because it wasn't your typical boy/girl relationship. Well, now it pretty much is except for a bit of reluctance on Sheldon's part but they have moved past just being a boy with a girl who is a friend to a bf/gf relationship and even started some physical relationship.

My point?

NONE of this evolution of the characters makes me care more about them than it did in the beginning which is exactly what the writers want the fans to feel like. So I'm at the point where I now watch the show and laugh at the expense of Leonard or Penny and only like when Sheldon gets 1-up on the others and I don't really care about how the Howard and Bernadette relationship goes.

But I guess viewing figures don't lie and my view is in the vast minority and apparently a lot more people DO care about this characters more now than they did before. So I think what I thought I was liking about the show and what the show was about was not really what the show was about.

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What I have ended up doing for Season 4 and 5 is to FFWD through ALL the scenes with:

- Just the girls together doing girlie things

- Scenes with Bernadette and anyone else

- Scenes with Amy trying to seduce Sheldon

I watched the parts with the guys being themselves (well, their "changed" selves) - no thanks to the creators/writers !!

That made seasons 4 and 5 more palatable.

And, for the record, the season 5 finale where everyone started to hold hands - even Sheldon - made me GAG !

Gimme a break, already.

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My point?

NONE of this evolution of the characters makes me care more about them than it did in the beginning which is exactly what the writers want the fans to feel like. So I'm at the point where I now watch the show and laugh at the expense of Leonard or Penny and only like when Sheldon gets 1-up on the others and I don't really care about how the Howard and Bernadette relationship goes.

But I guess viewing figures don't lie and my view is in the vast minority and apparently a lot more people DO care about this characters more now than they did before. So I think what I thought I was liking about the show and what the show was about was not really what the show was about.

American sitcoms that are; offbeat, quirky, non-derivative, targeted or challenging, do not last long on network TV. Think, "My So-called Life" or the truly great "Arrested Development". That's why a show like "Louie" or "The VP" are on cable. The last live-action, network show that even remotely fills that bill, with any success, was 'Seinfeld".

The vast majority of American audiences have gotten use to formulas after more than 60 years of sitcoms and they do not find a comedy that varies too far afield "entertaining". Much of this has to do with the relationship that the audience develops with the characters over the years. The viewers in the US after 24 episodes per year want to make these characters be like friends they will invite in once a week and characters who are off putting will be rejected. There are folks out there that love these challenging type of shows where the characters do not grow to some happy normalized state but there just are not enough of those folks to make a show last five years so that the producers and actors can make the big money from syndication.

The argument has been made here before on this forum that "The Big Bang Theory" (as conceived after its second pilot) was not really that much of a deviation from the standard US sitcom. I think that is correct. If it was really different, there would have not been the Leonard/Penny pillar built in the show.

The UK has developed a way you can have non-traditional shows be successful. Have shows with very limited runs. Shows like "The Office", "Extras", "Absolutely Fabulous" or "The IT Crowd" had about 12 to 24 episodes in their entirety. The characters did not change, they could be completely unlikeable and there was normally one writer who could expand his/her vision without the need to keep the audience from getting bored or irritated.

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And, for the record, the season 5 finale where everyone started to hold hands - even Sheldon - made me GAG !

Gimme a break, already.

Ugh. AGREED.

Hated that ending scene so much. I was like, what the hell? Am I watching a dramatic romance movie or a sitcom?

The argument has been made here before on this forum that "The Big Bang Theory" (as conceived after its second pilot) was not really that much of a deviation from the standard US sitcom. I think that is correct. If it was really different, there would have not been the Leonard/Penny pillar built in the show.

The UK has developed a way you can have non-traditional shows be successful. Have shows with very limited runs. Shows like "The Office", "Extras", "Absolutely Fabulous" or "The IT Crowd" had about 12 to 24 episodes in their entirety. The characters did not change, they could be completely unlikeable and there was normally one writer who could expand his/her vision without the need to keep the audience from getting bored or irritated.

I think I agree with you but I'm not sure if you are disputing my previous post or adding to it?

I agree the american sitcomes on network television tend to be less overly quirky or targeted and more derivative and try to get you to care about the characters to help the show last longer.

My issue with The Big Bang Theory lately is that their attempt to do that to me has actually had the opposite affect. I care less about the characters than I did when I watched the first 2 seasons.

By contrast I actually are more drawn to and care about the characters in Parks & Recreation and even Community (even though the show is pretty off-the-wall and quirky) and I care more about the characters of the US version of The Office. Now, I will even admit the last couple seasons of The Office I have started to care less and less. Once Steve Carell left and even a little before that the show basically jumped the shark but I cared more about the characters in seasons 4, 5 and 6 than I am for The Big Bang Theory in those same seasons.

I will also agree that I think the UK system has some merit by not showing too many episodes. On one hand it's sad because you don't get a lot of episodes if you really like a show but on the other hand each episode can be really good and fresh and characters are less likely to make dramatic, un-welcomed changes.

I would say the ideal number of seasons for a sitcom would be 5, plus or minus 1.

Once you get into Season 7 you are really grasping at straws and are probably a pretty different show than you started as so it might as well be a new show!

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The season 1 finale had Penny going out with Leonard for the first time (after Sheldon giving her some 'scientific' relationship advice). The season 2 finale was even more sentimental, with Leonard leaving and Penny realizing that she will miss him (and giving him the blanket robe). The season 3 finale had plenty of Leonard/Penny relationship drama, and Sheldon meeting Amy for the first time. If these were not 'romance and emotion-oriented' finales, I fail to see why a moment of hand-holding should be considered such.

Yes, the characters in romance movies/soap operas do hold hands. But they don't hold hands because their friend is launching off into space. Not to mention, you don't get to see that launch, with a real-life astronaut participating. It is this expert fusing of science-based plotlines with emotional issues that has always impressed me about TBBT, and still very much exists - as the season 5 finale proves.


I find it amusing that when real science is brought up here: Fermilab, the Mars Rover, what happened at CERN, sciencey guests eg; Margherita Hack there is absolutely no discussion from the moaners who complain the show is losing its science focus.

I've noticed this too. Whenever I've come up with examples of the science/geek oriented themes that are still being touched upon in the show, the response is either silence or arguments which struck me as slightly lame. For example, when I questioned why George Smoot's visit in season 2 qualifies as a science-based plot but Hawking's visit in season 5 doesn't, someone told me it's because the episode depicted nothing but the 'relationship between Sheldon and Hawking', and not any science! I'm still waiting to get this logic. :icon_confused:

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The argument has been made here before on this forum that "The Big Bang Theory" (as conceived after its second pilot) was not really that much of a deviation from the standard US sitcom. I think that is correct. If it was really different, there would have not been the Leonard/Penny pillar built in the show.

The UK has developed a way you can have non-traditional shows be successful. Have shows with very limited runs. Shows like "The Office", "Extras", "Absolutely Fabulous" or "The IT Crowd" had about 12 to 24 episodes in their entirety. The characters did not change, they could be completely unlikeable and there was normally one writer who could expand his/her vision without the need to keep the audience from getting bored or irritated.

I think I agree with you but I'm not sure if you are disputing my previous post or adding to it?

I'm adding to your argument. No way you can dispute a personal opinion that you are unhappy.

I agree the american sitcomes on network television tend to be less overly quirky or targeted and more derivative and try to get you to care about the characters to help the show last longer.

My issue with The Big Bang Theory lately is that their attempt to do that to me has actually had the opposite affect. I care less about the characters than I did when I watched the first 2 seasons.

By contrast I actually are more drawn to and care about the characters in Parks & Recreation and even Community (even though the show is pretty off-the-wall and quirky) and I care more about the characters of the US version of The Office. Now, I will even admit the last couple seasons of The Office I have started to care less and less. Once Steve Carell left and even a little before that the show basically jumped the shark but I cared more about the characters in seasons 4, 5 and 6 than I am for The Big Bang Theory in those same seasons.

I will also agree that I think the UK system has some merit by not showing too many episodes. On one hand it's sad because you don't get a lot of episodes if you really like a show but on the other hand each episode can be really good and fresh and characters are less likely to make dramatic, un-welcomed changes.

I would say the ideal number of seasons for a sitcom would be 5, plus or minus 1.

Once you get into Season 7 you are really grasping at straws and are probably a pretty different show than you started as so it might as well be a new show!

The dilemma is that TBBT can't really change its current direction and survive at the current level of success. If they had continued the original direction they would have not been renewed. They finished 59th after season 1 and 42nd after season 2 in the ratings. Lorre pretty much redid the show in season 3, getting CBS to place it after his number 1 ranked "Two and half men" to get new viewers to give it a try. This worked spectacularly. They added 4 million viewers and a staggering 30 Nielsen positions.

So the choice for loyal viewers is: do you accept this compromised show or the memory of a brave experiment?

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