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mjc45

prady on season 6

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The season 1 finale had Penny going out with Leonard for the first time (after Sheldon giving her some 'scientific' relationship advice). The season 2 finale was even more sentimental, with Leonard leaving and Penny realizing that she will miss him (and giving him the blanket robe). The season 3 finale had plenty of Leonard/Penny relationship drama, and Sheldon meeting Amy for the first time. If these were not 'romance and emotion-oriented' finales, I fail to see why a moment of hand-holding should be considered such.

Yes, the characters in romance movies/soap operas do hold hands. But they don't hold hands because their friend is launching off into space. Not to mention, you don't get to see that launch, with a real-life astronaut participating. It is this expert fusing of science-based plotlines with emotional issues that has always impressed me about TBBT, and still very much exists - as the season 5 finale proves.


I find it amusing that when real science is brought up here: Fermilab, the Mars Rover, what happened at CERN, sciencey guests eg; Margherita Hack there is absolutely no discussion from the moaners who complain the show is losing its science focus.

I've noticed this too. Whenever I've come up with examples of the science/geek oriented themes that are still being touched upon in the show, the response is either silence or arguments which struck me as slightly lame. For example, when I questioned why George Smoot's visit in season 2 qualifies as a science-based plot but Hawking's visit in season 5 doesn't, someone told me it's because the episode depicted nothing but the 'relationship between Sheldon and Hawking', and not any science! I'm still waiting to get this logic. :icon_confused:

& for the George Smoot episode, wasn't most of it about the boys lusting & trying to pick up Summer Glau? Illogical, unless you realize the subtext for the relationship-haters is that they want the show to be about unattractive men lusting/getting 'hot' women.

I thought the 5# finale was also so well done with the real astronauts, the capsule, it was all about science & as for hand-holding; all of life revolves around 'relationships' whether it's with your colleagues, boss, lover, friends, dog/cat etc...

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& for the George Smoot episode, wasn't most of it about the boys lusting & trying to pick up Summer Glau? Illogical, unless you realize the subtext for the relationship-haters is that they want the show to be about unattractive men lusting/getting 'hot' women.

I thought the 5# finale was also so well done with the real astronauts, the capsule, it was all about science & as for hand-holding; all of life revolves around 'relationships' whether it's with your colleagues, boss, lover, friends, dog/cat etc...

Hmm. We might be getting personal again, so let's leave it at that. :icon_twisted:

I found an interesting article on season 6 spoilers, but I'm not sure whether I can post it here? (Obvious spoilers are not allowed on the other forum). Will do so if the mod gives ok.

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& for the George Smoot episode, wasn't most of it about the boys lusting & trying to pick up Summer Glau? Illogical, unless you realize the subtext for the relationship-haters is that they want the show to be about unattractive men lusting/getting 'hot' women.

I thought the 5# finale was also so well done with the real astronauts, the capsule, it was all about science & as for hand-holding; all of life revolves around 'relationships' whether it's with your colleagues, boss, lover, friends, dog/cat etc...

Hmm. We might be getting personal again, so let's leave it at that. :icon_twisted:

I found an interesting article on season 6 spoilers, but I'm not sure whether I can post it here? (Obvious spoilers are not allowed on the other forum). Will do so if the mod gives ok.

i saw the spoilers also, should be a thread.

with the taping come up on tuesday.

a few of us on the forum are going, should

we tell everything what we saw?

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It may be good idea to tell all the taping details/share spoiler articles in a thread clearly marked SPOILERS. :)

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I find it amusing that when real science is brought up here: Fermilab, the Mars Rover, what happened at CERN, sciencey guests eg; Margherita Hack there is absolutely no discussion from the moaners who complain the show is losing its science focus.

I've noticed this too. Whenever I've come up with examples of the science/geek oriented themes that are still being touched upon in the show, the response is either silence or arguments which struck me as slightly lame. For example, when I questioned why George Smoot's visit in season 2 qualifies as a science-based plot but Hawking's visit in season 5 doesn't, someone told me it's because the episode depicted nothing but the 'relationship between Sheldon and Hawking', and not any science! I'm still waiting to get this logic. :icon_confused:

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It may be good idea to tell all the taping details/share spoiler articles in a thread clearly marked SPOILERS. :)

nice work-pomita.:icon_lol:

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The Spock and Hawking episodes were indeed science-based but while , for me at least, they were amusing but not LOL funny. I dont know why.Maybe its because the season 1+2 comedy was totally original. A new way to produce gags which havent been done before.

You cant just throw some random scientist or geek-hero into the mix and expect automatic laughs. It still has to be funny.

I dont think , in my time of life, that my sense of humor has changed. I would suggest that the writing has decreased in quality.

I stated before (about Sheldon installing linux) that such themes tend now only to be briefly introduced to keep up some geek-cred whereas in the early days, the were expanded into a whole scene.

Maybe they have just mined all that they can from such themes and now have to try to find new angles on the standard sit-com themes to keep going.

On the other hand, as I also said before.. regarding long-running shows where the characters didnt change... I give you 3rd Rock from the Sun and Frasier. And before you say Niles after Daphne...he didnt change nearly as much as Howard who has now become a standard rom-com character.

You hit the nail on the head. It's incredibly rare for a show to maintain a steady quality over so many seasons. Frasier did it. The show kept the characters the same and managed to introducing relationships as well. But it must be very difficult and take real undiluted talent from the writers.

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The Spock and Hawking episodes were indeed science-based but while , for me at least, they were amusing but not LOL funny. I dont know why.Maybe its because the season 1+2 comedy was totally original. A new way to produce gags which havent been done before.

You cant just throw some random scientist or geek-hero into the mix and expect automatic laughs. It still has to be funny.

I dont think , in my time of life, that my sense of humor has changed. I would suggest that the writing has decreased in quality.

Whether it's still science-based and whether it's still funny are two different issues.

We may argue about whether there's still enough science or not (and it's true that there's less than before). But the quality of the writing, and the humour, are not just for us to judge. The only objective measures of that are the viewership ratings (for the humour) and awards (for the quality). Since the more recent seasons have scored higher on both these counts than earlier seasons (it's present viewership is the highest ever, and it's getting award nominations as a series only now), there are no objective grounds of claiming that the quality has declined.

I'm guessing that the general public doesn't analyze whether there are relationships on the show, or science or geek cred: people just want to be entertained. So if there are more people watching and enjoying it now, that means it's still successful from the point of view of being funny, no matter what other complaints we may have about it.

I stated before (about Sheldon installing linux) that such themes tend now only to be briefly introduced to keep up some geek-cred whereas in the early days, the were expanded into a whole scene.

Maybe they have just mined all that they can from such themes and now have to try to find new angles on the standard sit-com themes to keep going.

I'm trying to remember where Sheldon installing linux was a whole scene by itself. As I recall, the scene was largely about Raj trying to get Sheldon to accompany him to the mixer in order to pick up a girl (which they eventually did). No offense, but I do sometimes feel that the people who mourn the loss of the 'good old geeky seasons' might be looking backwards with rose-coloured glasses!

You have a point about the need to find new angles (and characters) to keep it fresh over several years. About this show, I always felt it was going to be about the evolution of these characters, since the theme is 'how a woman moves into an apartment next door to two brilliant but socially awkward physicists and shows them how little they know about life outside of the laboratory'. So it was clearly planned from the outset that the effect of Penny on their lives would cause them to gradually change and embrace more 'normal' activities in their own awkward way.

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Whether it's still science-based and whether it's still funny are two different issues.

We may argue about whether there's still enough science or not (and it's true that there's less than before). But the quality of the writing, and the humour, are not just for us to judge. The only objective measures of that are the viewership ratings (for the humour) and awards (for the quality). Since the more recent seasons have scored higher on both these counts than earlier seasons (it's present viewership is the highest ever, and it's getting award nominations as a series only now), there are no objective grounds of claiming that the quality has declined.

I'm guessing that the general public doesn't analyze whether there are relationships on the show, or science or geek cred: people just want to be entertained. So if there are more people watching and enjoying it now, that means it's still successful from the point of view of being funny, no matter what other complaints we may have about it.

Fair point. I retract my comment about a decrease in quality. I should say, rather, that it no longer tickles my funny bone, the more it moves towards being a "Friends" type show; a show I never found funny.

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On the other hand, as I also said before.. regarding long-running shows where the characters didnt change... I give you 3rd Rock from the Sun and Frasier. And before you say Niles after Daphne...he didnt change nearly as much as Howard who has now become a standard rom-com character.

Having been in the "Frasier" and "Wings" e-mail groups in the '90s and having corresponded with Frasier's co-creator and executive producer David Lee at that time, a brief word about why Frasier never changed: "Cheers".

The character of Frasier Crane was introduced in the second season of Cheers and changed like a chameleon for nine years.

- First he was a pompous, intellectual, psychiatrist boyfriend for Diane Chambers from an elite Back Bay Boston family (even that background would change).

- Then he was the jilted fiance left at the alter who pined away for Diane at the bar

- Sullen, bitter barfly making sarcastic remarks at the goings on.

- Pursued sexual object of Lilith Sternin.

- Husband of Lilith

- We find out that Lilith is actually his second wife, his first being Nanny G.

- Father of Freddie Crane

- Ex-husband of Lilith

- Near suicidal depressive and once again bitter barfly.

Frasier went through so many changes on "Cheers" that David Lee and his fellow writers/co-creators, David Angel and Peter Casey did not feel the need to have him change on his new show where he would be the center. When they wanted to have Frasier Crane have some issues they simply went digging into his back story where there were changes galore. Niles, Daphne and Roz did the changing on the show: marriages, divorces and babies.

Where Lee had the issues similar to TBBT was "Wings", which drove him to distraction. Lee swore he would never have the principle couple, Joe and Helen permanently together and they would be friends then briefly sexual partners for season two then break up and become friends again. The Leonard/Penny relationship is a parallel to Joe/Helen. They went through the same fifth season drama on Wings as we saw this year on TBBT. Lee finally gave in and had them as a married couple in season seven.

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Whether it's still science-based and whether it's still funny are two different issues.

We may argue about whether there's still enough science or not (and it's true that there's less than before). But the quality of the writing, and the humour, are not just for us to judge. The only objective measures of that are the viewership ratings (for the humour) and awards (for the quality). Since the more recent seasons have scored higher on both these counts than earlier seasons (it's present viewership is the highest ever, and it's getting award nominations as a series only now), there are no objective grounds of claiming that the quality has declined.

I'm guessing that the general public doesn't analyze whether there are relationships on the show, or science or geek cred: people just want to be entertained. So if there are more people watching and enjoying it now, that means it's still successful from the point of view of being funny, no matter what other complaints we may have about it.

Fair point. I retract my comment about a decrease in quality. I should say, rather, that it no longer tickles my funny bone, the more it moves towards being a "Friends" type show; a show I never found funny.

That's fair enough.

I'm trying to remember where Sheldon installing linux was a whole scene by itself. As I recall, the scene was largely about Raj trying to get Sheldon to accompany him to the mixer in order to pick up a girl (which they eventually did). No offense, but I do sometimes feel that the people who mourn the loss of the 'good old geeky seasons' might be looking backwards with rose-coloured glasses!

That was my point. Whereas in the early days they would do a whole scene about Halo or remote-controlled gadgets, they later for the most part , reduced such things to short references, of which the Linux thing is an example.

Oh, ok. I thought you meant the Linux example as one in the 'more science' category, since it was a mid-season 3 episode.

Interestingly, I think season 3 has had the most science-related references/storylines so far - more than either the earlier or later seasons.

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I discovered the show a couple of months ago, and have been catching up with the relentless reruns on TBS and my local channels after the news. What I love about it are the characters - just seeing science geeks as main characters is so fun, and I love every science and geek-culture reference. I like the relationship aspect of it too, though I hope they won't keep Leonard and Penny as the on-again off-again for too long as that tends to become stale, and eventually outright annoying if they keep it up for too long.

I guess I'm saying that as a 'new' viewer I like both aspects of the show, science and relationships. The characters - particularly Sheldon because he's so unique - are what make the show special. It really had to win me over with the clever writing, too, because I HATE laugh tracks.

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