What Leonard Needs

[johnny-cake]

If you're interested I'm gay & discussed how Amy's behavior is that of a classic straight girl in the "Werewolf Transformation' thread. Priya in the pantsuit; bossy, smart, confident, arrogant, is a classic Lesbian in a Pinstriped Suit (LIPS) - a genuine lesbian fantasy. If I were going to write a SLASH it would be Priya/Penny.

Well people aren't that self-aware, Leonard certainly isn't - that's his problem. I kept asking on a thread 'what does he see in Penny' & Banger Main posted the acute analysis by Sheldon it's all 'greedy baby needy baby' & let's face it, Leonard is a beta troll; what attractive female would go out with him? (& I realize this is the big male fantasy of the show). All the female fanfic is Shenny, tells you something.

I was attracted to Leonard when I first started watching, and without any previous knowledge of who Johnny was either.

But maybe I am just weird.

I am a little disappointed that pretty much everyone hates the Leonard and Penny relationship. Characters change. It happens on most shows. At least a little, and all Leonard needs is a small change in the way he handles being in a relationship. As well as Penny.

I haven't read through this thread yet though, so this is just my opinion on it now.

On a seperate but not unrelated topic, I am disappointed in how the writing caused the fanbase to focus so much on Sheldon. The show was intended to be about both of them.

And, call me biased, I am,

but now poor Johnny and his fans are kind of squished to the side and forgotten.

[carl1970]

Not pretty much everyone hates the Leonard and Penny relationship. They are very popular with the fan base.

[johnny-cake]

Well I guess I haven't been introduced to many LP fans yet then. Lol.

[themightylin]

...let's face it, Leonard is a beta troll; what attractive female would go out with him? (& I realize this is the big male fantasy of the show). All the female fanfic is Shenny, tells you something.

I was attracted to Leonard when I first started watching, and without any previous knowledge of who Johnny was either.

But maybe I am just weird.

Nope, I agree completely. A guy like Leonard is rare and adorable, and I would easily say he's one of the main reasons I watch the show.

While I agree to a point, that most attractive women would probably not date him, that doesn't rule out attractive (maybe less attractive than Penny, but still) women who are also smart enough to date him.

I especially like to watch the train episode, mostly for the scene where Leonard is curled up under his hoodie, half-heartedly trying to take a nap. Come on, people, who in their right mind wouldn't date that? I like his quizzical but somehow vulnerable expressions. He's also got a strong jaw and broad shoulders, and a cute mouth. I know I'm not the only one who thinks so.

Okay I found the bit from the train:

Adorable. I rest my case. lol

Also, it's worth mentioning my husband is a lot like Leonard. So I'm not just blowing smoke, I've got a ring and six years of marriage to back me up.

[Europa]

Nice cap

I think Leonard is adorable, as in, cute as hell. Don't even mind that he's so short. Johnny is definitely a good-looking dude - he seems like a totally different person without the glasses, and with a little bit of scruff? Rawr.

But I think part of the reason I like Leonard is his relationship with Sheldon. By and large, he's incredibly patient and tolerant. Maybe some would call that a 'doormat' and he hasn't always been terribly kind to Sheldon, but he does genuinely see him as a good friend and generally is very giving when it comes to Sheldon's needs. (er...demands?) To get back on track with "What Leonard Needs," I'd say that he needs someone who appreciates him. Penny does appreciate him -and especially did when he was with Priya - but she's gone back to taking him for granted, because she is that confident in his feelings for her. I think that's what they (the writers) need to address next season.

[johnny-cake]

I will gladly accept the role of Leonard's new, more fitting, love interest.

:D

[themightylin]

I will gladly accept the role of Leonard's new, more fitting, love interest.

:D

Lol, you can do that.

Mostly I just want to squeeze him. Tell him everything's gonna be okay. Maybe bake him a german chocolate cake. lol But if I didn't already have a nerd of my own, I'd fight you for that role.

[seventythree]

What Leonard needs is something he's never had - unconditional love.

[themightylin]

What Leonard needs is something he's never had - unconditional love.

Thank you! Yes.

[Europa]

What Leonard needs is something he's never had - unconditional love.

Ha! Yep, in a nutshell - that's exactly right.

[johnny-cake]

What Leonard needs is something he's never had - unconditional love.

Quoted again for more emphasis. He needs someone that's going to love him and be interested in his life, what he does, what he likes. Someone he can spend time with.

Again, I'm available for the part.

[themightylin]

What Leonard needs is something he's never had - unconditional love.

Quoted again for more emphasis. He needs someone that's going to love him and be interested in his life, what he does, what he likes. Someone he can spend time with.

Again, I'm available for the part.

...I was thinking about why he wants love, but goes for cold or less stable types, and I think that this may be a part of it: he wants that real love connection, but maybe doesn't feel like he is good enough to have that, and therefore is willing to settle for less.

This is so true! I'm glad you brought that up. I think women generally suffer from this, and end up in one bad relationship after another, but you see it less frequently in men.

Also, going back to the unconditional love thing, when you think about it, Leonard is the only one who doesn't have someone who loves him that way.

-Sheldon has his mom, and now both Leonard and Penny pretty much take care of him.

-Penny's dad may have his faults, but he obviously loves her. "My daughter thinks I don't love her enough to support her no matter what choices she makes. Now that hurts me deeply."

-Howard's mother too, is far from perfect, (or pleasant), but she loves her son no matter how skeevy and pathetic he might be at times.

-Raj's parents love him very much too. They're a little overbearing, but they do it out of concern for Raj.

-Bernadette is her father's little princess. "He won't say 'no' to his little girl."

- Even Amy, as damaged as she is, had her mother as her only friend for any number of years. Healthy or not, Amy's mom is there for her.

Who does Leonard have? Not Sheldon. He may be a good friend sometimes, but his affection for Leonard has been deemed very conditional, in no uncertain terms. The first example that comes to mind is the "Schrodinger's Friendship" theory Sheldon uses when Leonard says he's going to Will Wheaton's party.

And Leonard obviously can't count on Penny's affection, which seems to come and go like a humming bird.

And we've mentioned before that his mother certainly doesn't fill that void either. Poor Leonard really has nobody but himself.

Here's hoping in season 6, he finds somebody to at least briefly help him fill that little hole in his heart that his mother left there.

[rickfromillinois]

I think that as he matures Leonard is working slowly progressing to what he needs. I also believe that Penny does love Leonard, does appreciate him, but is unable at this time to admit to him and more importantly herself just how deeply she does feel him. I also think that they have more mutual interests then what we have been actually shown. Several times there have been scenes that some mutual experience is mentioned that we had never heard anything about earlier. I keep remembering the scene between them in Penny's apartment during the episode where Sheldon had promised Amy that he would go to a weeding with her and then at the last moment refused. Penny and Leonard seemed relaxed with each other, were joking around, and it seemed obvious to me that there was a great deal of affection between the couple.

I think that they are getting there, it is just a slow trip.

[BangerMain]

Who does Leonard have? Not Sheldon. He may be a good friend sometimes, but his affection for Leonard has been deemed very conditional, in no uncertain terms. The first example that comes to mind is the "Schrodinger's Friendship" theory Sheldon uses when Leonard says he's going to Will Wheaton's party.

And Leonard obviously can't count on Penny's affection, which seems to come and go like a humming bird.

And we've mentioned before that his mother certainly doesn't fill that void either. Poor Leonard really has nobody but himself.

Here's hoping in season 6, he finds somebody to at least briefly help him fill that little hole in his heart that his mother left there.

As the writer's have shown on many occasions, poor Leonard brings this on himself, mainly though his unyielding devotion to his little "humming bird".

There is little chance that Leonard will find the real love he wants in another woman unless the writers decide to give Penny another jolt of jealousy which is the only way she progresses. But as we saw on several occasions in season five, she does not seem to fear that Leonard will now ever:

- break up with her on his own decision

- cheat on her

- cause her any pain

And for good measure, after she exploded about his "proposal" she made sure that she did not break up with him and was holding his hand as the season ended. She's not taking any chances after her Priya torture.

Unless they make some drastic changes, if Leonard gets what he needs it will have to be from Penny after some misery for him.

[Convict13]

Leonard needs to ask Penny what she actually wants with him. Totally agree with everyone's assessment that Penny believes that Leonard is like her pet boyfriend. He needs to stand up and get her to take him seriously. But I still wonder what they actually do talk about and have in common.

[BangerMain]

Leonard needs to ask Penny what she actually wants with him. Totally agree with everyone's assessment that Penny believes that Leonard is like her pet boyfriend. He needs to stand up and get her to take him seriously. But I still wonder what they actually do talk about and have in common.

What ever they talk about are surely Penny driven topics. For the L/P 2.0 beta test we saw Leonard try to entertain her by taking her shooting and showing her the heavy gas effects on her voice, both of which she liked. He tried to get her interested in Dr. Who and then bravely suggested that she read books, things she does not like, which Leonard quickly abandoned for fear of one of her explosions.

Why Leonard does not ask her what she sees as their future is a puzzlement. But the two times they have shown the inner workings of her mind, the "pregnant bride" daydream and the conversation with Leonard on the steps where she says she can see them married or broken up or the car she hit in the parking lot, indicates she does not think very much at all and does not have an answer.

[Moonbase]

I would like to see Leonard and Penny talk about their parents. Penny telling Leonard how her father pushed her away and Leonard telling Penny how cold his mother was. In the same scene! It could be done in a humorous way, of course, as it's always handled on the show. These two have common pain and this type of experience brings people together. I think it's part of the reason they are drawn to each other. Some fans criticise this. Insisting it's a bad thing. But we all look for someone who can relate to our experiences. This is a strong suit for this couple. It's the reason they found each together, they just haven't used it to good effect.

[BangerMain]

I would like to see Leonard and Penny talk about their parents. Penny telling Leonard how her father pushed her away and Leonard telling Penny how cold his mother was. In the same scene! It could be done in a humorous way, of course, as it's always handled on the show. These two have common pain and this type of experience brings people together. I think it's part of the reason they are drawn to each other. Some fans criticise this. Insisting it's a bad thing. But we all look for someone who can relate to our experiences. This is a strong suit for this couple. It's the reason they found each together, they just haven't used it to good effect.

Leonard tried to talk about just this the first time his mother visited and Penny freaked out and threw him out of the apartment.

Of course, they were both drunk and in bed so maybe the timing was off.

[Moonbase]

I would like to see Leonard and Penny talk about their parents. Penny telling Leonard how her father pushed her away and Leonard telling Penny how cold his mother was. In the same scene! It could be done in a humorous way, of course, as it's always handled on the show. These two have common pain and this type of experience brings people together. I think it's part of the reason they are drawn to each other. Some fans criticise this. Insisting it's a bad thing. But we all look for someone who can relate to our experiences. This is a strong suit for this couple. It's the reason they found each together, they just haven't used it to good effect.

Leonard tried to talk about just this the first time his mother visited and Penny freaked out and threw him out of the apartment.

Of course, they were both drunk and in bed so maybe the timing was off.

Urm, he did not! He brought up Freud in the bedroom! Enough to put anyone off. I wasn't talking about sex or anything remotely sexual. I was talking about sharing common experience. This is something they have not done. Not in any effective way.

[BangerMain]

I would like to see Leonard and Penny talk about their parents. Penny telling Leonard how her father pushed her away and Leonard telling Penny how cold his mother was. In the same scene! It could be done in a humorous way, of course, as it's always handled on the show. These two have common pain and this type of experience brings people together. I think it's part of the reason they are drawn to each other. Some fans criticise this. Insisting it's a bad thing. But we all look for someone who can relate to our experiences. This is a strong suit for this couple. It's the reason they found each together, they just haven't used it to good effect.

Leonard tried to talk about just this the first time his mother visited and Penny freaked out and threw him out of the apartment.

Of course, they were both drunk and in bed so maybe the timing was off.

Urm, he did not! He brought up Freud in the bedroom! Enough to put anyone off. I wasn't talking about sex or anything remotely sexual. I was talking about sharing common experience. This is something they have not done. Not in any effective way.

Poor Leonard! He brings up the deepest subjects when ever they are in bed:

Leonard: This is actually gonna happen.

Penny: Honey, shush, shush, shush, shush, shush.

Leonard: You shush, I’m happy, I want to talk about it. You know what my mother would say about this? She would say because you were not loved by your father and I was not loved by my mother, that having sex is our way of making up for the intimacy we didn’t get as children.

Penny: Why would you bring that up right now?

Leonard: I don’t know. Foreplay?

Penny: So you’re saying you’re not having sex with me, you’re having sex with your mother?

Leonard: Ummm, I’m gonna go with “no.â€

Penny: That is the sickest thing I’ve ever heard.

Leonard: Come on, you’re trying to have sex with your father, and I’m okay with that.

Scene: Penny’s front door.

Penny: Get out!

That was the wrong time to talk about the common thread of their parentage!

You are right, they never have really talked about what they have in common in their upbringing. This attempt was done strictly for laughs.

[Moonbase]

I would like to see Leonard and Penny talk about their parents. Penny telling Leonard how her father pushed her away and Leonard telling Penny how cold his mother was. In the same scene! It could be done in a humorous way, of course, as it's always handled on the show. These two have common pain and this type of experience brings people together. I think it's part of the reason they are drawn to each other. Some fans criticise this. Insisting it's a bad thing. But we all look for someone who can relate to our experiences. This is a strong suit for this couple. It's the reason they found each together, they just haven't used it to good effect.

Leonard tried to talk about just this the first time his mother visited and Penny freaked out and threw him out of the apartment.

Of course, they were both drunk and in bed so maybe the timing was off.

Urm, he did not! He brought up Freud in the bedroom! Enough to put anyone off. I wasn't talking about sex or anything remotely sexual. I was talking about sharing common experience. This is something they have not done. Not in any effective way.

Poor Leonard! He brings up the deepest subjects when ever they are in bed:

Leonard: This is actually gonna happen.

Penny: Honey, shush, shush, shush, shush, shush.

Leonard: You shush, I’m happy, I want to talk about it. You know what my mother would say about this? She would say because you were not loved by your father and I was not loved by my mother, that having sex is our way of making up for the intimacy we didn’t get as children.

Penny: Why would you bring that up right now?

Leonard: I don’t know. Foreplay?

Penny: So you’re saying you’re not having sex with me, you’re having sex with your mother?

Leonard: Ummm, I’m gonna go with “no.â€

Penny: That is the sickest thing I’ve ever heard.

Leonard: Come on, you’re trying to have sex with your father, and I’m okay with that.

Scene: Penny’s front door.

Penny: Get out!

That was the wrong time to talk about the common thread of their parentage!

You are right, they never have really talked about what they have in common in their upbringing. This attempt was done strictly for laughs.

He could have thrown a bucket of cold water on her, it would have had a better reaction. Yeah wrong topic, wrong time.

[Convict13]

I would like to see Leonard and Penny talk about their parents. Penny telling Leonard how her father pushed her away and Leonard telling Penny how cold his mother was. In the same scene! It could be done in a humorous way, of course, as it's always handled on the show. These two have common pain and this type of experience brings people together. I think it's part of the reason they are drawn to each other. Some fans criticise this. Insisting it's a bad thing. But we all look for someone who can relate to our experiences. This is a strong suit for this couple. It's the reason they found each together, they just haven't used it to good effect.

I totally agree, Penny is quite obviously the opposite to his mother, and Leonard places "Slugger" up on a princess pedestal.

[Europa]

I thought, "I don't know. Foreplay?" was hilarious. :D

I agree though, they should have some kind of deep conversation in this area. How they can handle that on the show without it being "MELODRAMA!" is another question. It's one of those things that should probably happen off-camera.

[annieogly]

I thought, "I don't know. Foreplay?" was hilarious. :D

I agree though, they should have some kind of deep conversation in this area. How they can handle that on the show without it being "MELODRAMA!" is another question. It's one of those things that should probably happen off-camera.

I'm really starting to feel that Leonard would be happiest with...Amy. I know it seems odd; but she's just like his mother but warm. She wants human contact, sex, all of it and they have so much in common. Remember what a nice time he had at the wedding with her? I think they'd be a happier match than L/P.

[Pomita]

I thought, "I don't know. Foreplay?" was hilarious. :D

I agree though, they should have some kind of deep conversation in this area. How they can handle that on the show without it being "MELODRAMA!" is another question. It's one of those things that should probably happen off-camera.

I'm really starting to feel that Leonard would be happiest with...Amy. I know it seems odd; but she's just like his mother but warm. She wants human contact, sex, all of it and they have so much in common. Remember what a nice time he had at the wedding with her? I think they'd be a happier match than L/P.

Do I see a budding Leonard/Amy shipper?

You have a point. But I'm too much in love with Sheldon/Amy's weird relationship to really want the (possibly smoother?) one between Leonard and Amy!