What Leonard Needs

[rickfromillinois]

Personally I don't want to see another break-up for L\P.. but God forbid if the writers continue this on again/off again crap.. then I would like to see Leonard breaking up with Penny not the other way around so that she could come to her senses.. and this will be huge character growth for leonard..... but if penny breaks up with leonard again and they get back together again(which we all know is the end game) then I would probably lose all respect for leonard's character

I agree. Either put them together or apart permanently. One way or the other. Not both.

[wayelrob]

Personally I don't want to see another break-up for L\P.. but God forbid if the writers continue this on again/off again crap.. then I would like to see Leonard breaking up with Penny not the other way around so that she could come to her senses.. and this will be huge character growth for leonard..... but if penny breaks up with leonard again and they get back together again(which we all know is the end game) then I would probably lose all respect for leonard's character

I think we all lost respect for Leonard when he took Penny back after she slept with Raj in Leonard's bed. And, lets not go back to whether they actually had sex or not. Leonard believes they did and he still took her back. Kinda weak and I say that even though I have always wanted to see them together. They should have resolved it differently.

[Fruit Loop]

Personally I don't want to see another break-up for L\P.. but God forbid if the writers continue this on again/off again crap.. then I would like to see Leonard breaking up with Penny not the other way around so that she could come to her senses.. and this will be huge character growth for leonard..... but if penny breaks up witLeonardrd again and they get back together again(which we all know is the end game) then I would probably lose all respect for leonard's character

I think we all lost respect for Leonard when he took Penny back after she slept with Raj in Leonard's bed. And, lets not go back to whether they actually had sex or not. Leonard believes they did and he still took her back. Kinda weak and I say that even though I have always wanted to see them together. They should have resolved it differently.

Season 5 I think L&P have been more FRIENDS WITH BENEFITS than an actual couple.

I liked what wayelrob said about Penny Liking the way Leonard Treats her. But She doesn't find him sexually appealing like Kurt. There in being the real problem in the relationship.

As for sex with Raj, What about the the other 39 1/2 men that Sheldon claims she has been with? I want a someones, not a Everyones. LEONARD IS IN LUST, NOT LOVE.

I started a thread about Penny being a slut like Sheldon makes her out to be. 80% felt Penny was loser than the average Girl her age. IMHO Penny would be a party girl if she had the money to run the Clubs. The Boys and Amy/Bernie are her affordable entertainment. While they are all smarter than Penny she still feels better than them because she is the Beautiful one.

.

[vasu]

Season 5 I think L&P have been more FRIENDS WITH BENEFITS than an actual couple.

I liked what wayelrob said about Penny Liking the way Leonard Treats her. But She doesn't find him sexually appealing like Kurt. There in being the real problem in the relationship.

As for sex with Raj, What about the the other 39 1/2 men that Sheldon claims she has been with? I want a someones, not a Everyones. LEONARD IS IN LUST, NOT LOVE.

I started a thread about Penny being a slut like Sheldon makes her out to be. 80% felt Penny was loser than the average Girl her age. IMHO Penny would be a party girl if she had the money to run the Clubs. The Boys and Amy/Bernie are her affordable entertainment. While they are all smarter than Penny she still feels better than them because she is the Beautiful one.

I don't think Leonard is in lust, that might be the cause of his attraction towards her initially...but now its love...

The 100th episode clearly showed that...he loves her so much that even though he came to the conclusion that their relationship is eventually doomed (dream sequence) he went on and asked her out...

So, even thought there is a possibility that he could be hurt very badly again he had the guts to ask her out again.

And come on he would have had sex with Penny a lot of times when they were dating and lately he had been scoring a lot of good chicks so I don't see any other reason behind him asking her out than him being in love with her

[Moonbase]

Season 5 I think L&P have been more FRIENDS WITH BENEFITS than an actual couple.

I liked what wayelrob said about Penny Liking the way Leonard Treats her. But She doesn't find him sexually appealing like Kurt. There in being the real problem in the relationship.

As for sex with Raj, What about the the other 39 1/2 men that Sheldon claims she has been with? I want a someones, not a Everyones. LEONARD IS IN LUST, NOT LOVE.

I started a thread about Penny being a slut like Sheldon makes her out to be. 80% felt Penny was loser than the average Girl her age. IMHO Penny would be a party girl if she had the money to run the Clubs. The Boys and Amy/Bernie are her affordable entertainment. While they are all smarter than Penny she still feels better than them because she is the Beautiful one.

I don't think Leonard is in lust, that might be the cause of his attraction towards her initially...but now its love...

The 100th episode clearly showed that...he loves her so much that even though he came to the conclusion that their relationship is eventually doomed (dream sequence) he went on and asked her out...

So, even thought there is a possibility that he could be hurt very badly again he had the guts to ask her out again.

And come on he would have had sex with Penny a lot of times when they were dating and lately he had been scoring a lot of good chicks so I don't see any other reason behind him asking her out than him being in love with her

I tend to agree, I think Leonard is totally hooked. If sex were the only objective he'd have chalked it up by now and moved on. I think he's completely obsessed with her, in an almost unhealthy way. He lets her treats him badly at times, that's proper obsessive love.

But he's much more in touch with the reality of his feelings than she is. She's living in a dream world. She thinks he's a safe bet that she can get out of it whenever she pleases. But I don't think she can. She's been on and off with this guy for five years. If she really doesn't love him, she should tell him and stop dating him! Stop going across the hall. Stop trying to be friends with him when he's got a new girlfriend. Leave the guy alone! She totally fooling herself, I don't think she can.

[DPK]

I think Penny/Leonard is fairly simple. Leonard loves Penny, unquestionably. Penny loves everything about Leonard, since he is the only decent guy she ever dated, except one thing. She isn't sexually attracted to him and is still young enough to have that eat away at her. If she commits to him and says, "I love you," then she is giving up on the inner hope that she can find a, "Kurt," who will act like Leonard. That is what feels different for her. Her affection for him is not linked to lust, so it doesn't feel like love, as she has experienced it. That is what I get from the way the writers have done this so far. Either they need to have Penny grow up and learn that lust will wane, but mutual respect and admiration wax, building a better long term relationship or break them up and have Penny back to having other boyfriends and Leonard move on. Their relationship, as they are currently writing it, has no comedic value at all.

It's sad because are you are probably not only right but just how shallow it makes her character. What's even more frustrating about this is that Leonard isn't some hideous looking bridge troll either, so there isn't much justification for having Penny lack sexual attraction to him. While Leonard doesn't looked like some roided up muscle freakshow, he isn't pencil thin and frail looking like a lot of nerds are portrayed as either.

[Fruit Loop]

SPOILER ALERT SEASON 6 EPISODE 5

The Halloween Episode has Penny chasing after Leonard. She actually comes to his lab on two occasions and makes him have sex with her in his Lab. She also attacks him at the Halloween party. This all happens after the girls tell her, she needs to take a bigger interest in Leonard and his work etc.

Could this be the start of a Change in Penny's attitude toward Leonard? Will she finally embraces their relationship as Equals? How will this change effect Leonard? Will this change in Penny make Leonard more dormant in his relations with both Penny and Sheldon? There are a million ways this could go.

PS. I wouldn't want to be Johnny G having to make out with Kaley C. an Ex Girl friend on stage. Having close body contact with someone you once dated could be very Frustrating. No matter how Professional you call yourself there has got to be a spark or two. Of course those two do handle it nicely.

.

[wayelrob]

SPOILER ALERT SEASON 6 EPISODE 5

The Halloween Episode has Penny chasing after Leonard. She actually comes to his lab on two occasions and makes him have sex with her in his Lab. She also attacks him at the Halloween party. This all happens after the girls tell her, she needs to take a bigger interest in Leonard and his work etc.

Could this be the start of a Change in Penny's attitude toward Leonard? Will she finally embraces their relationship as Equals? How will this change effect Leonard? Will this change in Penny make Leonard more dormant in his relations with both Penny and Sheldon? There are a million ways this could go.

PS. I wouldn't want to be Johnny G having to make out with Kaley C. an Ex Girl friend on stage. Having close body contact with someone you once dated could be very Frustrating. No matter how Professional you call yourself there has got to be a spark or two. Of course those two do handle it nicely.

.

It's different when you are acting though. It looks seamless on screen, but with retakes and pauses, it kind of looses the sexiness, and you tend to concentrate on the job. On the other hand I would enjoy a good tumble with any of my 4 ex-wives. But, then, that's the attitude that got me 4 ex-wives. Sigh! Hang in there Johnny.

[BangerMain]

SPOILER ALERT SEASON 6 EPISODE 5

The Halloween Episode has Penny chasing after Leonard. She actually comes to his lab on two occasions and makes him have sex with her in his Lab. She also attacks him at the Halloween party. This all happens after the girls tell her, she needs to take a bigger interest in Leonard and his work etc.

Could this be the start of a Change in Penny's attitude toward Leonard? Will she finally embraces their relationship as Equals? How will this change effect Leonard? Will this change in Penny make Leonard more dormant in his relations with both Penny and Sheldon? There are a million ways this could go.

PS. I wouldn't want to be Johnny G having to make out with Kaley C. an Ex Girl friend on stage. Having close body contact with someone you once dated could be very Frustrating. No matter how Professional you call yourself there has got to be a spark or two. Of course those two do handle it nicely.

.

They are fixing the Leonard/Penny relationship at a dizzying pace. This was promised since last spring but I thought it would take all season. They must have something else in mind but it feels like they heard the fan dissatisfaction and decided to get everybody calmed down quickly. Penny's emotional age must have jumped five years in the first five tapings.

The Johnny and Kaley relationship shows the difference in real life and TV sitcom life. After "having" Kaley for two years, Johnny is able to move on and function with her as a co-worker and friend. His character, Leonard is still overwhelmed by every close encounter with Penny.

Still, you got to believe Johnny feels something even briefly.

Edited September 23, 2012 by BangerMain

[Moonbase]

Both of them are in committed relationships with someone new now, but acting those scenes must remind them of the past sometimes. They are very lucky to be comfortable enough with each other to continue working together so well. It could have been difficult but they have managed to do it. A part of me would like to see those two back together again. It won't happen and it's a silly thing to imagine because I don't know them. Still it would be kind of sweet. Anyway, he's not Leonard but if they are mending this relationship, great.

[Fruit Loop]

They are fixing the Leonard/Penny relationship at a dizzying pace. This was promised since last spring but I thought it would take all season. They must have something else in mind but it feels like they heard the fan dissatisfaction and decided to get everybody calmed down quickly. Penny's emotional age must have jumped five years in the first five tapings.

The Johnny and Kaley relationship shows the difference in real life and TV sitcom life. After "having" Kaley for two years, Johnny is able to move on and function with her as a co-worker and friend. His character, Leonard is still overwhelmed by every close encounter with Penny.

Still, you got to believe Johnny feels something even briefly.

Some of the best times are just cuddling or a hug. It would drive me crazy.

[SodidIwin?]

You are correct that they are moving their relationship extremely fast. Either the writers are doing this because they have other story lines with Penny's career and the other characters to cover or they are setting the fans up for another dagger in the heart. I'm rooting for the former!

[BangerMain]

You are correct that they are moving their relationship extremely fast. Either the writers are doing this because they have other story lines with Penny's career and the other characters to cover or they are setting the fans up for another dagger in the heart. I'm rooting for the former!

I can't believe that they would dare go back to the Penny break up loop, that's what they are trying to clean-up now. If they want to delay the L/P end game it would have to be Leonard initiated this time. Penny is being "fixed" to prevent her from going back to her old simpleton ways. It looks like they are reseting L/P back to the middle of season three.

I think your hope is the way they are going. Reset the L/P relationship to solid ground and let the rest of the season be concerned about other interests, Penny's career, where Howard and Bernie will live, Raj's social ife and most importantly the progress of the Shamy. This could be a rich season for the entire ensemble, where the entire cast will have full story lines.

And we should see the gang having fun again, playing games, going out for entertainment, making advances in their careers. Less drama, more good feelings. This is a comedy, afterall.

Edited September 24, 2012 by BangerMain

[SodidIwin?]

I'm totally liking your scenario, now someone please tell the writers!

[syousef]

For me they've all but destroyed this part of the show. It's gone from a light-hearted comedy about a pair of science geeks and their friends, one of them finally getting girl of his dreams, complete with sophisticated scientific jokes, into a weak sitcom about two deeply flawed and unsympathetic characters with token science jokesn thrown in occasionally.

Penny treats Leonard like dirt. In my single days I learnt fairly quickly that if a girl takes you for granted and can't commit, you should walk away fast. All Leonard does is whines and nags, making him pathetic. "She's just not that into you".

Leonard and Penny are both going nowhere careerwise, and the last time Raj got anywhere was when he was recognised for finding that asteroid. Only Howard's carrer is doing anything interesting, and all that his being in space has been used for admittedly funny but ultimately shallow situational comedy, plus the continuing tensions between his wife and mother which are getting old.

If I turn on the TV to watch a sitcom I want to see something to laugh at not on-again off-again relationship drama. My choices are to be emotionally uninvested and therefore not care, or otherwise come away from half the episodes feeling bad. Not cool. Not fun.

Sad to say it but the best thing they could do is have Leonard grow a spine and cut Penny from the show altogether. Pity because I like Kaley Cuoco, but they've written these characters into a corner.

[Fruit Loop]

For me they've all but destroyed this part of the show. It's gone from a light-hearted comedy about a pair of science geeks and their friends, one of them finally getting girl of his dreams, complete with sophisticated scientific jokes, into a weak sitcom about two deeply flawed and unsympathetic characters with token science jokesn thrown in occasionally.

Penny treats Leonard like dirt. In my single days I learnt fairly quickly that if a girl takes you for granted and can't commit, you should walk away fast. All Leonard does is whines and nags, making him pathetic. "She's just not that into you".

Leonard and Penny are both going nowhere careerwise, and the last time Raj got anywhere was when he was recognised for finding that asteroid. Only Howard's carrer is doing anything interesting, and all that his being in space has been used for admittedly funny but ultimately shallow situational comedy, plus the continuing tensions between his wife and mother which are getting old.

If I turn on the TV to watch a sitcom I want to see something to laugh at not on-again off-again relationship drama. My choices are to be emotionally uninvested and therefore not care, or otherwise come away from half the episodes feeling bad. Not cool. Not fun.

Sad to say it but the best thing they could do is have Leonard grow a spine and cut Penny from the show altogether. Pity because I like Kaley Cuoco, but they've written these characters into a corner.

I keep saying Leonard needs to grow a pair. But Kaley isn't going any where as long as she adds Sex interest to the Rating. I am guessing more than half the episodes have her in rather reveling Pajamas or other clothing. True her character's Morals and Value are not the greatest. But is that not the Nerd Writers view of what they see as unobtainable party girls?? These Characters are a Product of the writers.

.

[bigbangsheldon]

#ibelieveinpenny

[Disgusted]

#LORRESUCKS

[Kaizen]

I thought the writers did a fantastic job keeping the Penny and Leonard will they / won’t they saga going for the first 3 ½ or so seasons, but their later efforts were so disappointing that I lost interest in storyline. To me, the writers didn’t put nearly as much forethought into the story line as they did before, haphazardly came up with reasons to keep the relationship vacillating, and even worse morphed both characters into something different.

I don’t know if it’s the writing or the actors themselves, but the scenes were Penny and Leonard argue are neither funny nor entertaining. Both actors come across as very cold, bitter and harsh. Ultimately ending with Leonard acting as a doormat and Penny as a cruel and mean sexual cannibal. Like a female praying mantis, that may or may not bite off Leonard’ head…before, during or after coitus.

Anyway I'm glad they are fixing Penny.

.

[SRAM]

I think it could help the L/P relationship along if they start having little things in some episodes that show Penny how awesome Leonard is so that they can make Penny change, sort of like they did in the last episode but make them little things. Such as they could have Penny run into Kurt and find out that the time Kurt gave her the money he borrowed back was because of Leonard.

[tatiana]

I can't seem to remember where I read this from (so don't quote me) but I think either Lorre or Prady said that they will explore further into the Leonard/Penny relationship in season 6 but Penny is the one who has to grow up emotionally before their relationship reaches a whole new level. As to how long it will take for Penny to grow up is not known. I mean, I personally don't like girls like Penny- those to take their relationship for granted and think that their bf can't do any better or won't break up with them. So it may take a while for Penny to realise that she is the one who is stalling the relationship not Leonard because he knows what he wants.

Judging by what has happened so far and reading the spoliers, I think they are headed for a break-up (hopefully they stay apart for a few seasons) and the introduction of Alex who is more Leonard's intellectual equal and who shows interest in him first and obviously admires him, is perfect fit.

I just don't want the writers to rush this storyline but rather have Leonard move on and have Penny have a realisation that she is not what she thinks she is and she can't do better than Leonard.

[SRAM]

OK, now that Penny has told Leonard she loves him I don't want Leonard to show Penny insecurity again. If he gets a little insecure, he can discuss witb his Bro's but never in front of Penny again.

[C-Trayne]

^^ agreed... Leonard not only admitted his insecurities to penny but he received an ILY from her in return. This should hopefully solve a lot if the issues they've been having and bring them closer in ways they haven't been before because they haven't been able to share ILY's

[koops]

wow, I didn't realize there was so much negativity about this couple. To be honest, I think it isn't easy to write seasons upon seasons of a couple and still keep them interesting, it's really hard, we should cut the writers some slack. Personally, I don't feel like their on-off thing is completely out of context for the premise of this show, which was after all to have the two nerds and the regular girl across the hall come into each others' lives and, essentially, learn from each other. So on one hand you have Leonard get the "girl of dreams", with all that comes with it, and on the other hand you have Penny being the relatively shallow simpleton who falls for the geek and has to grow as a character because of it. I think it's perfectly in tune with what the show is about, I do not think it "ruined" it at all. Yes, of course writers can make some bad choices here and there in terms of storytelling, but overall I think these characters are being analyzed way too much, like Leonard were a real guy who needs to "grow a pair" and dump her: even if he were a real guy, I'm sure everyone has had a friend like him. There might be some potential in Penny that we still haven't seen and that the writers will bring out at some point, and that's the whole point of their story: if they had brought out that potential in Penny already there would be no story to tell.

I have faith in these two.

edit: You cannot cut Penny from the show! that's the whole point of the show! I know some keep complaining about how it should just be a show about a bunch of nerds making nerds jokes, but I think that is not what the writers intended this show to be, ever. As I said, the whole premise is the two nerds and the regular girl and their worlds clashing and mingling and changing because of each other. The nerdy science jokes are great, and as a science nerd I love them and can never get enough of it, but that is not what the show is solely about.

Edited November 19, 2012 by spook

[vasu]

wow, I didn't realize there was so much negativity about this couple. To be honest, I think it isn't easy to write seasons upon seasons of a couple and still keep them interesting, it's really hard, we should cut the writers some slack.

First of all I'm a big L\P fan.

But still I feel that their relationship was not dealt properly in season 3. The focus that Sheldon's character got was so heavy that I felt the other characters and their story lines were mostly either wasted or incomplete.

Let me give an example

In the episode where Sheldon teaches Penny Physics

- The main goal of Penny was to impress Leonard (very nice story idea)

- So she asks Sheldon to teach her Physics which he does

- But in the ending scene where she tells the big Physics dialogue it looked like she was trying to mock him rather than trying to impress him.

- It looked like Sheldon and Penny won the match , but the problem was that Leonard did not know what was going on , he was not playing the match

- A good ending would have been Leonard recognizing the fact that his girlfriend tried to learn Physics for him and appreciating it. ( this was what I was expecting at the start of the episode )

- But the writers were like--who cares about all that, see Sheldon is so funny , see Sheldon is so funny

So as a result the goal that was set at the start was not accomplished.

The episode was very funny but still it felt incomplete to me

What actually baffles me was that the same writes were able to focus on all the characters previously

because a similar kind of storyline was done previously in season 1 - Leonard's birthday episode

- Penny wanting to do something nice to Leonard, S\P plot , L\H plot

But the difference was that sweetness was delivered at the end the episode . So as a result that episode felt complete as all the goals were accomplished

Another example : final episode of Season 3

- In the opening scenes Leonard was good to Penny and tried to be good to Zach

- Later that night Penny comes to Leonard which he assumed that they were back-together again

- After she tells him that it was a mistake , he gets upset and goes to her the next night....she shoves him away.... I mean really ????

How many times have we seen the writers make Penny shower her care and sympathy for Sheldon , this was the time they made her show some towards Leonard (she should have known the reason he was acting like that, she should've known that it was her fault)

I agree that writing seasons upon seasons for a couple is hard, but when you write a story specific to them they should be able to make it as complete as possible

Anyways Past is Past , So lets just hope that the ILY will remove all the insecurities of Leonard

Edited November 19, 2012 by vasu