Leonard & Penny?

[Thebigbang123]

i think they should alway be together how ever they are funny when they are apart as in that penny has so many men and leonard wan to say something and he cant casue he scared.

But i think in every episodes they will be together adn apart, i think that is what the writers are going to do

[mjc45]

when is season 6 coming out, i want to see more of L/P

sept.27 first show (you may not like it????)

[gellerbing]

to me penny and leonard are a lot like ross and rachel in friends, always together and apart, nobody admitting their true feelings, lots of arguments etc etc, to me wondering whether they will get together in the end is what makes good entertainment and hopefully in the end they will as i love penny and leonard

[rickfromillinois]

Leonard has on several occasions admitted his true feelings, that is one of the problems. Frankly his continuous declarations of his love for her and her repeated explosive responses to his declarations are becoming annoying. If Penny were a decent person she would break off all contact with Leonard when she learned that he loved her and she doesn't love him. Either she does love him and is too cowardly to admit it or she doesn't but enjoys having someone that worships her, treats her with respect, someone she can dominate, and most of all, someone who will "do" until someone better comes along who she can love. In other words, for her it is a one way street with everything going in her direction.

I hope hope the Penny and Leonard relationship as it stands now is either resolved this season or ended for good. Penny has no reason for changing things as they stand now because it is all to her advantage. Therefore I hope that Leonard is the one to do so. Perhaps without saying so he let's her know that he has had enough and if things don't change he does have other options. Leonard seems to strongly want someone who not only can he he love, but who loves him in return. Penny does not seem to want to love anyone in a romantic way at this time in her life if ever. Either one of them needs to change what they want or they both need to look elsewhere.

[BangerMain]

Leonard has on several occasions admitted his true feelings, that is one of the problems. Frankly his continuous declarations of his love for her and her repeated explosive responses to his declarations are becoming annoying. If Penny were a decent person she would break off all contact with Leonard when she learned that he loved her and she doesn't love him. Either she does love him and is too cowardly to admit it or she doesn't but enjoys having someone that worships her, treats her with respect, someone she can dominate, and most of all, someone who will "do" until someone better comes along who she can love. In other words, for her it is a one way street with everything going in her direction.

Great analysis.

Being that this is American TV, the choice is: Penny loves him but is too afraid to say it. Since she most definitely loves being worshiped by Leonard, a logical conclusion is she feels that as long as Leonard showers her with love and attention while on a quest to get her to acknowledge her love for him, why end the quest and possibly have him see her as a mere mortal woman. Still, that's insecurity on her part. She likes being the Wizard of Oz and wants to prevent Leonard from looking behind that curtain.

I hope that the Penny and Leonard relationship as it stands now is either resolved this season or ended for good. Penny has no reason for changing things as they stand now because it is all to her advantage. Therefore I hope that Leonard is the one to do so. Perhaps without saying so he let's her know that he has had enough and if things don't change he does have other options. Leonard seems to strongly want someone who not only can he he love, but who loves him in return. Penny does not seem to want to love anyone in a romantic way at this time in her life if ever. Either one of them needs to change what they want or they both need to look elsewhere.

That's the bind that the powers that be are in with L/P. They can't keep this up. How many times can we have Leonard ask Penny to advance their relationship before the audience starts not to care anymore and moves on to the Shamy. I think this season has to be the pivot point where they start toward a stable, ADULT relationship. We know that this is what the audience wants. It would make no sense to have a couple with few real issues (poverty, previous marriages, illness, etc) stumble along on utterly inconsequential matters. From what I have seen of spoilers, the writers will address this topic in the premiere epsiode of season six.

[johnny-cake]

to me penny and leonard are a lot like ross and rachel in friends, always together and apart, nobody admitting their true feelings, lots of arguments etc etc, to me wondering whether they will get together in the end is what makes good entertainment and hopefully in the end they will as i love penny and leonard

This is sort of how I feel. This is television. This is how a lot of relationships in shows go. They aren't going to be a straight up, this or that, somebody choose right now kind of relationship everyone is complaining they want from Leonard and Penny.

News flash, real life relationships aren't like that, so why make it like that on a show? Leonard and Penny aren't you. They are Leonard and Penny. This is what the L/P relationship is. It is meant to keep you wondering whether or not, in the end, they will be together.

In fact, I think all this frustration and complaining is what the writers would hope for, to some extent. Obviously they can't keep you frustrated forever or you would give up on L/P, but there are going to CONTINUE to be hardships in this relationship. Embrace that.

[HeWolf]

No. I don’t believe I will embrace that. With two notable exceptions, all of the conflict in the Leonard/Penny relationship is contrived and, to me, unbelievable. The conflict exists only in the minds of the writers, and by default, in the mind of Penny.

Prior to their illogical breakup L/P had experienced two major disagreements. The first concerned Penny’s belief in psychics and the second one over the appropriateness of her having an ex-lover musician stay in her apartment. Much of the blame for the first conflict should fall on Leonard as he certainly could have handled the issue better. Perhaps his naiveté when it comes to relationships could serve as some excuse. Or, the fact that he comes from an intellectual family and academic background where he learned to express his thoughts with little or no filter. Either way, he screwed it up. To me, the second issue falls solidly on Penny. She should have considered Leonard’s feelings prior to agreeing to permit an ex-lover to stay in her apartment. This is a completely inappropriate situation and his objection was totally understandable. Also, where exactly was he going to sleep? On her four foot sofa? This was also an early indicator of her attitude of total superiority in their relationship. She’ll do what she wants and he can live with it.

The fact is, except as noted above, there was nothing in their relationship that indicated there was any problem. They both had made efforts to experience things the other enjoyed. For two such dissimilar people they were doing very well at combining their lives and assimilating into each other’s worlds. Then, after eight months, Leonard tells Penny he loves her; a proclamation that causes her to go bat-crap crazy and end the relationship. For me this was the beginning of my “I don’t care what happens to this relationship†mindset. Penny’s reaction to what Leonard said was so absurd that it pretty much led to my now total disinterest in her as a character. This is in no way a criticism of Kaley. I enjoy her acting and think she does a fantastic job playing Penny. When they stuck Penny and Raj in bed together people claimed the show had ‘jumped the shark’ and things would go downhill from there. I am thinking that moment came in the bowling alley when Penny walked out on Leonard. The writers broke something that was working and it has been a dysfunctional mess since that point. And now it has simply become old, tiresome and stale.

Penny as a character has become superfluous. Outside of the L/P relationship and her friendship with Amy and Bernadette she serves no purpose on the show. She can be (and has been) replaced in the first one, and the second only serves as a vehicle to give the female characters more episode time. Interactions that I usually enjoy but comments on this forum reveal that many people would not miss them if they ended. We see the show devoting a lot of effort toward developing Sheldon, Amy and the Shamy. Conversely, they seem determined to continually erode Penny, Leonard and the Lenny. The positive does not need a negative counterpart. Do Lorre and Prady believe anyone tunes into TBBT to see relationship drama? Does anyone tune in wanting to see that? I don’t. Relationship humor is fine. Drama belongs on another show. In my opinion TBBT, and L/P, would be better served if they developed Penny’s career. Maybe they need to bring back the original writers and find some freshness.

Penny spent all of season four pining away for Leonard, drinking and justifiably blaming herself for being stupid. Now, they are back in the relationship and she’s being stupid again. Should they have a conflict free relationship? Of course not. That would not be realistic or believable either. But If Penny wants to be in this relationship then she should act like it. If not, then let Leonard go and return to the losers she used to date. Maybe they will be more to her liking; ignorant Neanderthals that will be happy to screw her again; literally and metaphorically.

I have watched TBBT since the night the pilot aired. Never have I invested myself in a program as I have in TBBT. Almost every night I watch at least one episode. I schedule my week around Thursday nights so I can see each episode as it airs. Multiple times each day I check this forum. Much time and expense was put into traveling from Georgia to New York to see Jim Parsons in Harvey. Will I quit watching if the L/P melodrama continues? At this point I will not go so far as to say that. But, my enthusiasm for the coming season has waned after reading the spoiler thread. I’m sure there will be a lot of laughs in season six but they won’t be coming from the Lenny if the pattern holds to form.

[johnny-cake]

If you hate the L/P relationship so much and are so annoyed, then give up on it. I don't know how to explain myself any further. I have a feeling this is what their relationship will be like throughout the entire series, until they finally end up together which I do believe will happen. Seems people are under the impression that love is so simple, when even I know that it's not. You think it's as simple as Penny "not being stupid and finally letting Leonard go". I can't wrap my brain around that. Maybe I like difficulty, I don't know. But all this anger over their rocky togetherness is just silly in my opinion.

[Disgusted]

No. I don’t believe I will embrace that.......

I couldn't agree more with this entire post. +1 rep for you.

People who think Leonard/Penny are "endgame" are deluding themselves, IMNSHO. I just don't trust the writers anymore. Roseanne ended on a huge downer, was Lorre still there at the end?(edit No.)

For more examples of writers screwing over audience expectations at the end, see Lost, The Sopranos, et al.

[HeWolf]

If you hate the L/P relationship so much and are so annoyed, then give up on it. I don't know how to explain myself any further. I have a feeling this is what their relationship will be like throughout the entire series, until they finally end up together which I do believe will happen. Seems people are under the impression that love is so simple, when even I know that it's not. You think it's as simple as Penny "not being stupid and finally letting Leonard go". I can't wrap my brain around that. Maybe I like difficulty, I don't know. But all this anger over their rocky togetherness is just silly in my opinion.

I'm not angry about it. I don't know if anyone is angry about it. I'm simply tired of the conflict that has no reason for being. Love is not simple. Nobody said it is. I've got thirty years on you and know very well love is anything but simple. Conflict will exist in relationships. That's a given. But the L/P conflict has no basis. Penny is pissed off because Leonard loves and is devoted to her and wants to know if she feels the same way about him. She does or she doesn't. That IS simple. She should commit to this relationship or let it, and him, go.

You say you believe this is how the relationship will be like until they finally end up together. How will they do that? The only thing keeping them apart is Penny. What will change? What does Leonard have to do? I know, you do not have these answers. Only the writers would have them. Thing is, I don't believe they do. We know that Raj and Penny ended up in bed together because of an off-hand remark by Chuck Lorre. I wonder if the whole L/P breakup didn't happen the same way. They do a lot of things on this show on the spur of the moment. No thought about what has happened, or where things may lead.There are no answers because there is no plan.

Not being argumentative. I enjoy your posts and you certainly have every right to see this as you do. We just see this differently. You're enjoying the L/P dynamic. I see it as unnecessary and detracting from the show. Oh, well. Such is life...

btw; nice pics of Johnny in your signature!

[Disgusted]

They are writing Penny as a typical immature guy who wants a relationship with no commitment.

http://forum.the-big-bang-theory.com/thread-2910-page-12.html Last post

We know that Raj and Penny ended up in bed together because of an off-hand remark by Chuck Lorre. I wonder if the whole L/P breakup didn't happen the same way.

Thats exactly what happened. Over at the Lollipop Guild they linked to an article that quoted Molero as saying, " we (the writers) looked at each other and said, OMG they're breaking up!"

[Guest I'm not dead Cheryl]

Penny spent all of season four pining away for Leonard, drinking and justifiably blaming herself for being stupid. Now, they are back in the relationship and she’s being stupid again. Should they have a conflict free relationship? Of course not. That would not be realistic or believable either. But If Penny wants to be in this relationship then she should act like it. If not, then let Leonard go and return to the losers she used to date. Maybe they will be more to her liking; ignorant Neanderthals that will be happy to screw her again; literally and metaphorically.

Absolutely agree with your whole post, but specially with the part I quoted. I am just not rooting for them anymore. I have come to a point where I just ignore them on the show. I don't care about them as a couple. And the reason is Penny. She doesn't know what she wants, despite being a grown up. She is just there, she doesn't do anything, she doesn't fight for anything, she's there. Nothing else.

Instead of Amy looking up to Penny it should be Penny looking up to Amy and maybe learning from her. Amy knows what she wants and she fights to get it, Penny should do the same.

Until then, I would say to Penny what Jim said to Kaley in the Ausiello intervivew: "we like you, but you need to get your s*** together!"

[walnutcowboy]

When we first saw Penny, she had just broken up with a guy she had been living with for 8 months. She KNOWS how to care, but with him cheating on her, the old saying "Once Bitten, Twice shy" could be very true. If TBBT were on 24/7 Leonard and Penny would have come to terms with each other by now, but it's only a half hour sitcom. Anything that happens is bound to take longer then in real life.

[HeWolf]

When we first saw Penny, she had just broken up with a guy she had been living with for 8 months. She KNOWS how to care, but with him cheating on her, the old saying "Once Bitten, Twice shy" could be very true. If TBBT were on 24/7 Leonard and Penny would have come to terms with each other by now, but it's only a half hour sitcom. Anything that happens is bound to take longer then in real life.

Very true. However, in the timeline of the show these characters have known each other for 4-5 years. Penny should have a very clear understanding of who Leonard is, what he believes in, and what he will and will not do. If she doesn't know by now if she can trust him then it is doubtful she will ever know.

[walnutcowboy]

Yes, it can be assumed they "live" about 1 year per season. We know they would eat, sleep, talk, go to the bathroom, etc. without us. But any plot changes that happen, will ONLY happen when we are watching and not during the 167 1/2 they are on their own. Thus dragging out things that would normally be solved quicker in real life.

[BangerMain]

When we first saw Penny, she had just broken up with a guy she had been living with for 8 months. She KNOWS how to care, but with him cheating on her, the old saying "Once Bitten, Twice shy" could be very true. If TBBT were on 24/7 Leonard and Penny would have come to terms with each other by now, but it's only a half hour sitcom. Anything that happens is bound to take longer then in real life.

Very true. However, in the timeline of the show these characters have known each other for 4-5 years. Penny should have a very clear understanding of who Leonard is, what he believes in, and what he will and will not do. If she doesn't know by now if she can trust him then it is doubtful she will ever know.

The puzzling thing is, Penny knew exactly what she was getting into in the very first season. She made the analysis to Sheldon as she pondered whether to date Leonard:

- I have dated good-looking creeps who hurt me after they use me.

- Leonard has a crush on me. Sheldon called her Leonard's "Helen of Troy" who she had never heard of.

- Leonard will treat me well

- Leonard is the kind of guy who will want a relationship with me that lasts for "Light-Years"

She got it all right. Her analysis was perfect and she started their first relationship, brief as it was. That was Penny in year one. She has now regressed to the point that she is incapable of making any analysis at all. When Leonard asked her about a comment she made about them being married and seemed surprised she thought about such things, the season five Penny replied: "I think about a lot of things. I think about us getting married, I think about us breaking up. Once in a while, I think about how I didn’t leave a note on that Mercedes I dinged in the parking lot last month, but then I have a glass of wine and it passes."

I know the writers have made Penny like this to keep the original premise of Leonard on a quest for Penny. When Leonard gets close they have Penny hit her reset button and Leonard starts all over again. What is frustrating to the viewers is this is just lazy writing since they never give a reason for why Penny is doing this. She just does it.

I have faith that all the talk about maturing Penny this season means they will flesh out the character, which really, is the most under-developed major female lead on TV. She has been little more then an outline of a person who servers the purpose of one character, Leonard.

From what we hear of spoilers, the writers know she needs massive rework since they have the other characters on the show "calling her out" on her illogical behavior.

[walnutcowboy]

Wonderfully said! I hope she DOES becomes more of a (Mature) person.

[rickfromillinois]

Frankly it is quickly getting to the point were I just don't care. Either put them together permanently of pull them apart, once again permanently. Just stop this on-again off-again will they or won't they garbage. Take Penny totally out of the picture and send her home to Nebraska. I don't care. Just stop this series of contrived problems and hard to believe temporary hook-ups, one night stands, and sudden get togethers. No more surprise hookups for Penny with Raj, Sheldon, Zac, one of her old boyfriends, or the comic book store owner. Enough already.

[johnny-cake]

If you hate the L/P relationship so much and are so annoyed, then give up on it. I don't know how to explain myself any further. I have a feeling this is what their relationship will be like throughout the entire series, until they finally end up together which I do believe will happen. Seems people are under the impression that love is so simple, when even I know that it's not. You think it's as simple as Penny "not being stupid and finally letting Leonard go". I can't wrap my brain around that. Maybe I like difficulty, I don't know. But all this anger over their rocky togetherness is just silly in my opinion.

I'm not angry about it. I don't know if anyone is angry about it. I'm simply tired of the conflict that has no reason for being. Love is not simple. Nobody said it is. I've got thirty years on you and know very well love is anything but simple. Conflict will exist in relationships. That's a given. But the L/P conflict has no basis. Penny is pissed off because Leonard loves and is devoted to her and wants to know if she feels the same way about him. She does or she doesn't. That IS simple. She should commit to this relationship or let it, and him, go.

You say you believe this is how the relationship will be like until they finally end up together. How will they do that? The only thing keeping them apart is Penny. What will change? What does Leonard have to do? I know, you do not have these answers. Only the writers would have them. Thing is, I don't believe they do. We know that Raj and Penny ended up in bed together because of an off-hand remark by Chuck Lorre. I wonder if the whole L/P breakup didn't happen the same way. They do a lot of things on this show on the spur of the moment. No thought about what has happened, or where things may lead.There are no answers because there is no plan.

Not being argumentative. I enjoy your posts and you certainly have every right to see this as you do. We just see this differently. You're enjoying the L/P dynamic. I see it as unnecessary and detracting from the show. Oh, well. Such is life...

btw; nice pics of Johnny in your signature!

It's a show, we all have our opinions on it. I definitely understand and see why you feel the way you do though.

To answer one of your questions however, about how they will keep the relationship on edge possibly until the end...it takes a long time for people to change, or notice their feelings, or make up their minds sometimes. Maybe the writers are going for that. Again, and I know a lot of people do this, I'm going to use Ross and Rachel as an example. There are fans that stayed with them, even though it wasn't until the end of a TEN YEAR show, we new for sure they truly loved eachother. It sounds a bit sappy, but as long as there are people who like that kind of stuff, the writers will put it in there.

But again, people enjoy different things and there are many varying opinions on the whole thing on this board. It's pretty interesting to hear everyone's take on it, and in the end, I enjoy yours as well as others' posts. :D

And thanks about the pictures. Really though, I have an entire folder with just him in it.

[BangerMain]

To answer one of your questions however, about how they will keep the relationship on edge possibly until the end...it takes a long time for people to change, or notice their feelings, or make up their minds sometimes. Maybe the writers are going for that. Again, and I know a lot of people do this, I'm going to use Ross and Rachel as an example. There are fans that stayed with them, even though it wasn't until the end of a TEN YEAR show, we knew for sure they truly loved each other. It sounds a bit sappy, but as long as there are people who like that kind of stuff, the writers will put it in there.

I hear so many times that the off again/ on again relationship of Leonard and Penny is analogous to Ross and Rachel on Friends. Not being a Friends fan, I decided to do a little research and found it is so different in a big way. The writers on Friends went to great lengths (in some case ridiculous) to give valid reasons why they were apart and part of the time they were more of a couple then Leonard and Penny.

Season 1 - Ross, who had a crush on Rachel since high school, constantly tries to tell Rachel that he loves her, while his lesbian ex-wife, Carol, is expecting his baby. The season ends with Rachel waiting at the airport for Ross’ arrival from a trip.

Season 2 - Rachel, waiting at the gate for Ross to declare her love for him, discovers that he is dating Julie, someone he knew from graduate school, although Ross and Rachel eventually begin a relationship.

Season 3 - Rachel begins working at Bloomingdale's and Ross becomes jealous of her colleague, Mark. Rachel decides to take a break; and Ross, hurt and drunk, sleeps with someone else, causing Rachel to break up with him.

Season 4 - Ross and Rachel briefly reconcile, but continues to insist that the two were on a break so they break up again. Ross begins dating an English woman named Emily and the season finale features their wedding in London. Rachel decides to attend Ross and Emily's wedding. While saying his vows, Ross uses the wrong name at the altar (Rachel's), to the shock of his bride and the guests.

Season 5 - Emily states that the only condition in which she would remain married to Ross is if he stops all communication with Rachel. Ross does not agree to her proposal and they terminate the marriage. Ross and Rachel drunkenly stumble out of a wedding chapel in Las Vegas at seasons end.

Season 6 - Ross and Rachel's marriage is established to be a drunken mistake, and they divorce several episodes later.

Season 7 - The season ends where Phoebe and Rachel find a positive pregnancy test in the bathroom.

Season 8 - It is revealed that the positive pregnancy test belongs to Rachel. The season revolves around Rachel's pregnancy; Ross is revealed to be the father. Rachel and Ross decide to have the baby but do not resume their romantic relationship. Joey develops romantic feelings for Rachel, but she does not reciprocate them. Rachel gives birth to baby Emma in the season finale.

Season 9 - Ross and Rachel are living together as roommates with baby Emma. Ross has another girl friend, Charlie and Rachel has feelings for Joey.

Season 10 - Charlie breaks up with Ross to get back together with her ex-boyfriend. Joey and Rachel try to contend with Ross' feelings about them being together and decide it would be best to remain friends. Rachel gets fired from her job and accepts a new offer in Paris, but Ross, realizing he loves her, chases after her. Rachel realizes she loves him, too, and cancels her flight to Paris, agreeing to stay with him.

Holy Matrimony, Batman.

These folks had ex-lovers including friends, marriages (including their own !), divorces (once again, including their own), a baby and they lived together. In what way are they close to being Leonard and Penny?

TBBT writers don't give nearly as much thought on to how to keep L/P from being together permanently. Penny just breaks up with Leonard, whines about being stupid, gets him back again and repeat.

And I say "Thank You" for not using the "Friends" option.

[johnny-cake]

To answer one of your questions however, about how they will keep the relationship on edge possibly until the end...it takes a long time for people to change, or notice their feelings, or make up their minds sometimes. Maybe the writers are going for that. Again, and I know a lot of people do this, I'm going to use Ross and Rachel as an example. There are fans that stayed with them, even though it wasn't until the end of a TEN YEAR show, we knew for sure they truly loved each other. It sounds a bit sappy, but as long as there are people who like that kind of stuff, the writers will put it in there.

I hear so many times that the off again/ on again relationship of Leonard and Penny is analogous to Ross and Rachel on Friends. Not being a Friends fan, I decided to do a little research and found it is so different in a big way. The writers on Friends went to great lengths (in some case ridiculous) to give valid reasons why they were apart and part of the time they were more of a couple then Leonard and Penny.

Season 1 - Ross, who had a crush on Rachel since high school, constantly tries to tell Rachel that he loves her, while his lesbian ex-wife, Carol, is expecting his baby. The season ends with Rachel waiting at the airport for Ross’ arrival from a trip.

Season 2 - Rachel, waiting at the gate for Ross to declare her love for him, discovers that he is dating Julie, someone he knew from graduate school, although Ross and Rachel eventually begin a relationship.

Season 3 - Rachel begins working at Bloomingdale's and Ross becomes jealous of her colleague, Mark. Rachel decides to take a break; and Ross, hurt and drunk, sleeps with someone else, causing Rachel to break up with him.

Season 4 - Ross and Rachel briefly reconcile, but continues to insist that the two were on a break so they break up again. Ross begins dating an English woman named Emily and the season finale features their wedding in London. Rachel decides to attend Ross and Emily's wedding. While saying his vows, Ross uses the wrong name at the altar (Rachel's), to the shock of his bride and the guests.

Season 5 - Emily states that the only condition in which she would remain married to Ross is if he stops all communication with Rachel. Ross does not agree to her proposal and they terminate the marriage. Ross and Rachel drunkenly stumble out of a wedding chapel in Las Vegas at seasons end.

Season 6 - Ross and Rachel's marriage is established to be a drunken mistake, and they divorce several episodes later.

Season 7 - The season ends where Phoebe and Rachel find a positive pregnancy test in the bathroom.

Season 8 - It is revealed that the positive pregnancy test belongs to Rachel. The season revolves around Rachel's pregnancy; Ross is revealed to be the father. Rachel and Ross decide to have the baby but do not resume their romantic relationship. Joey develops romantic feelings for Rachel, but she does not reciprocate them. Rachel gives birth to baby Emma in the season finale.

Season 9 - Ross and Rachel are living together as roommates with baby Emma. Ross has another girl friend, Charlie and Rachel has feelings for Joey.

Season 10 - Charlie breaks up with Ross to get back together with her ex-boyfriend. Joey and Rachel try to contend with Ross' feelings about them being together and decide it would be best to remain friends. Rachel gets fired from her job and accepts a new offer in Paris, but Ross, realizing he loves her, chases after her. Rachel realizes she loves him, too, and cancels her flight to Paris, agreeing to stay with him.

Holy Matrimony, Batman.

These folks had ex-lovers including friends, marriages (including their own !), divorces (once again, including their own), a baby and they lived together. In what way are they close to being Leonard and Penny?

TBBT writers don't give nearly as much thought on to how to keep L/P from being together permanently. Penny just breaks up with Leonard, whines about being stupid, gets him back again and repeat.

And I say "Thank You" for not using the "Friends" option.

We can argue all day about this, but have you ever watched Friends? I own all ten seasons. Their relationship was similar, as WELL AS different, in many ways. I'm not saying it's exactly the same. These are different characters and we will interpret them differently, so while I see where you are coming from, don't tell me I'm wrong about it. Unlike this fandom is usually, the Friends fandom tolerated or even welcomed some drama in their sitcom, so the RR relationship was just as, if not rockier, than the LP one. Yes they had different situations, different reasons for the hardships, but it's all still there. I'm not DEFENDING the LP 'on and off' all the way here though. I really do think the writers could do a WAY better job of it.

But just like HeWolf said, we are all going to think differently, and there's really no right or wrong. I just knew someone was going to bite me for the Ross/Rachel comment sooner or later.

[Europa]

I think the comparison to Friends is not the relationship itself so much as the continual contrivances to get them together and then break them up again.

The danger in the Friends model is that by the time the writers have done that three, four, five times, people lose interest and/or start to actively not want them together anymore. This is what I don't want to happen to Leonard and Penny, and if they break them up again this year they are venturing right into that territory. So I hope whatever issues they have this year, they get resolved without some ridiculous "we were on a break" nonsense that makes me hate both of them. Or that they break them up permanently and really go a different route with both of them. I don't want that to happen AT ALL, but it would at least be a creative way to approach it.

[johnny-cake]

I can definitely get that vibe at times, where I'm annoyed and frustrated about the relationship, but I also am still interested to see what happens. So I guess that's where I differ from other people who simply find it pointless after a while. Lol.

In ANY case, I will always love Leonard and Penny as a couple and I really do hope they end up together, and I especially like the idea of it changing Penny, or helping her character to mature. As everyone else says though, that would be most believable, and the least annoying, if they did it THIS season.

[BangerMain]

To answer one of your questions however, about how they will keep the relationship on edge possibly until the end...it takes a long time for people to change, or notice their feelings, or make up their minds sometimes. Maybe the writers are going for that. Again, and I know a lot of people do this, I'm going to use Ross and Rachel as an example. There are fans that stayed with them, even though it wasn't until the end of a TEN YEAR show, we knew for sure they truly loved each other. It sounds a bit sappy, but as long as there are people who like that kind of stuff, the writers will put it in there.

I hear so many times that the off again/ on again relationship of Leonard and Penny is analogous to Ross and Rachel on Friends. Not being a Friends fan, I decided to do a little research and found it is so different in a big way. The writers on Friends went to great lengths (in some case ridiculous) to give valid reasons why they were apart and part of the time they were more of a couple then Leonard and Penny.

These folks had ex-lovers including friends, marriages (including their own !), divorces (once again, including their own), a baby and they lived together. In what way are they close to being Leonard and Penny?

TBBT writers don't give nearly as much thought on to how to keep L/P from being together permanently. Penny just breaks up with Leonard, whines about being stupid, gets him back again and repeat.

And I say "Thank You" for not using the "Friends" option.

We can argue all day about this, but have you ever watched Friends? I own all ten seasons. Their relationship was similar, as WELL AS different, in many ways. I'm not saying it's exactly the same. These are different characters and we will interpret them differently, so while I see where you are coming from, don't tell me I'm wrong about it. Unlike this fandom is usually, the Friends fandom tolerated or even welcomed some drama in their sitcom, so the RR relationship was just as, if not rockier, than the LP one. Yes they had different situations, different reasons for the hardships, but it's all still there. I'm not DEFENDING the LP 'on and off' all the way here though. I really do think the writers could do a WAY better job of it.

But just like HeWolf said, we are all going to think differently, and there's really no right or wrong. I just knew someone was going to bite me for the Ross/Rachel comment sooner or later.

Let me clarify. The point I was making is that the writers of Friends went the extra mile to give reasons why Ross and Rachel were not a permanent couple. TBBT writers have not. Looking at all the bumps that Leonard and Penny have for their breakups, makes them look rather silly.

I tried sampling episodes of Friends in syndication but I got whiplash. As you stated, the Friends fan base expected melodrama mixed with the comedy and that's not my cup of tea.

But there is no doubting the Friends writers thought through more of the Ross/Rachel dynamic then the writers of TBBT do for Leonard and Penny, well mainly Penny.

[walnutcowboy]

If you hate the L/P relationship so much and are so annoyed, then give up on it. I don't know how to explain myself any further. I have a feeling this is what their relationship will be like throughout the entire series, until they finally end up together which I do believe will happen. Seems people are under the impression that love is so simple, when even I know that it's not. You think it's as simple as Penny "not being stupid and finally letting Leonard go". I can't wrap my brain around that. Maybe I like difficulty, I don't know. But all this anger over their rocky togetherness is just silly in my opinion.

I'm not angry about it. I don't know if anyone is angry about it. I'm simply tired of the conflict that has no reason for being. Love is not simple. Nobody said it is. I've got thirty years on you and know very well love is anything but simple. Conflict will exist in relationships. That's a given. But the L/P conflict has no basis. Penny is pissed off because Leonard loves and is devoted to her and wants to know if she feels the same way about him. She does or she doesn't. That IS simple. She should commit to this relationship or let it, and him, go.

You say you believe this is how the relationship will be like until they finally end up together. How will they do that? The only thing keeping them apart is Penny. What will change? What does Leonard have to do? I know, you do not have these answers. Only the writers would have them. Thing is, I don't believe they do. We know that Raj and Penny ended up in bed together because of an off-hand remark by Chuck Lorre. I wonder if the whole L/P breakup didn't happen the same way. They do a lot of things on this show on the spur of the moment. No thought about what has happened, or where things may lead.There are no answers because there is no plan.

Not being argumentative. I enjoy your posts and you certainly have every right to see this as you do. We just see this differently. You're enjoying the L/P dynamic. I see it as unnecessary and detracting from the show. Oh, well. Such is life...

btw; nice pics of Johnny in your signature!

It's a show, we all have our opinions on it. I definitely understand and see why you feel the way you do though.

To answer one of your questions however, about how they will keep the relationship on edge possibly until the end...it takes a long time for people to change, or notice their feelings, or make up their minds sometimes. Maybe the writers are going for that. Again, and I know a lot of people do this, I'm going to use Ross and Rachel as an example. There are fans that stayed with them, even though it wasn't until the end of a TEN YEAR show, we new for sure they truly loved eachother. It sounds a bit sappy, but as long as there are people who like that kind of stuff, the writers will put it in there.

But again, people enjoy different things and there are many varying opinions on the whole thing on this board. It's pretty interesting to hear everyone's take on it, and in the end, I enjoy yours as well as others' posts. :D

And thanks about the pictures. Really though, I have an entire folder with just him in it.

Can anyone say PREGGY PENNY?