Season 6 spoilers

[Everyday]

For those who think that Penny is cheating and that she wants to stay in relations without commitment until she will find someone better. I should mention that Penny from TBT, at least up to now, did not look for a profit in relations. In my opinion she is rather honest and sincere. In particular, she is with Leonard because she likes to be with him (it seems she is tied to him personally as well as she is attracted to his intellect) and because, I believe it's clear, she loves him. I think the authors emphasize some psychological issues which she must work out (in the rest of S6 or maybe in the next seasons).

[SodidIwin?]

Amen. I don't think  they will wait much longer then some time next year, with the earliest being this season's finale. It is embaressing having Leonard screwup proposals and I think we have all figured out that Penny's insecurity about her self worth is what is scaring her. I don't know when they plan on fixing that.

 

I was shocked to hear that Alex is back. I wonder what for?

So now that Penny has to propose to Leonard, does that mean she has to ask Leonard's mom for her approval? The guy always is required to ask the bride's father's approval. Lol!

[eirwinrommel]

So now that Penny has to propose to Leonard, does that mean she has to ask Leonard's mom for her approval? The guy always is required to ask the bride's father's approval. Lol!

In a way she already has it. They bonded on her last visit. I'd like to see Leonard's dad could be interesting. 

[C-Trayne]

My question is where did this boyfriend come from??? I mean she dated Kurt for four years before she met the guys and we've known her since. We've seen no mention of him before on the show at all... I guess it could be high school or something but then it shouldn't have been as big of a deal I think

[SRAM]

My question is where did this boyfriend come from??? I mean she dated Kurt for four years before she met the guys and we've known her since. We've seen no mention of him before on the show at all... I guess it could be high school or something but then it shouldn't have been as big of a deal I think

 

 It is shame that this boyfriend thing is probably just another throw away event to get a laugh by the writers.  I think they could have used it to explain Penny's fear of love, if they had thought of it, and made her realize that Leonard is not the same as that guy.

[BangerMain]

In a way she already has it. They bonded on her last visit. I'd like to see Leonard's dad could be interesting. 

 

Well, sort of bonded. More like tolerate. Here are the last words of Dr. Beverly to Leonard and Penny:

 

Beverley: And I want you to take very good care of this young woman.

 

Penny: Oh, thank you, Beverly.

Beverley: You’re welcome. She doesn’t have much in the way of career

prospects, don’t make her responsible for her own orgasms as well.

 

I would not want that for a Mother-in-Law.

[BangerMain]

 It is shame that this boyfriend thing is probably just another throw away event to get a laugh by the writers.  I think they could have used it to explain Penny's fear of love, if they had thought of it, and made her realize that Leonard is not the same as that guy.

 

Throw away in deed.

 

There is no way in the chronology of the series that there's a chance for Penny to have had such a serious relationship. And in the "sides" Leonard knows the guy. The only person that this could have been besides Kurt, is Mike, the man with the Penny destroyed iPod in 1.17. Mike is the boyfriend that drove Penny to first date Leonard. But the sides give the name as someone else.

 

The writers, as usually, did not try to work out the continuity. They needed some guy from her past to setup the L/P relationship to a new level (Penny's open ended proposal that she can execute at any time) and they figured the fans would not sweat the details.

 

And they are probably right.

Edited January 24, 2013 by BangerMain

[BangerMain]

For those who think that Penny is cheating and that she wants to stay in relations without commitment until she will find someone better. I should mention that Penny from TBT, at least up to now, did not look for a profit in relations. In my opinion she is rather honest and sincere. In particular, she is with Leonard because she likes to be with him (it seems she is tied to him personally as well as she is attracted to his intellect) and because, I believe it's clear, she loves him. I think the authors emphasize some psychological issues which she must work out (in the rest of S6 or maybe in the next seasons).

 

This is something that has not been emphasize enough and the writers seem to be determined to quietly show. For all the claims that Penny mooches food and Wifi, she has not gone through Leonard's money nor asked for gifts.as a gold digger would be expected to do. Leonard  does pay for the takeout  and movies for her but she is a very cheap date, especially when you consider that she has virtually total control of their relationship.

 

The only time the writers have shown Penny as possibly a user of Leonard was during season four, the dark times, when they were pretty much trashing her character. In season 2 and 3 she turned down help from Leonard and even borrowed money from Sheldon and threaten Leonard when he offered to help her. Leonard got her money back from Kurt, since he thought she would have to move out. Leonard would pay her rent or move them both to a nice place if she asked him, but she has not.

 

Penny's future without Leonard is really rather bleak, as her father has told Leonard but she refuses to use him, because he is that special to her, TPTB seem to imply.

Edited January 24, 2013 by BangerMain

[SodidIwin?]

For those who think that Penny is cheating and that she wants to stay in relations without commitment until she will find someone better. I should mention that Penny from TBT, at least up to now, did not look for a profit in relations. In my opinion she is rather honest and sincere. In particular, she is with Leonard because she likes to be with him (it seems she is tied to him personally as well as she is attracted to his intellect) and because, I believe it's clear, she loves him. I think the authors emphasize some psychological issues which she must work out (in the rest of S6 or maybe in the next seasons).

As anyone who reads my posts knows full well that I am a strong Penny and Leonard fan. I never said Penny cheated. When I was discussing a lack of making a commitment and saying its like she is just waiting for someone better to come along. I was trying to understand how you can truly love someone yet are not willing to commit to that person. It goes back to the taping report when Penny appogizes to Leonard. She then explains that she sees him proposing to her and they get married and then she is "stuck" with him together forever. Isn't that what loves is about being together with person you say you love? I was trying to understand what Penny thinks saying you love someone really means. Therefore, I presented what I consider saying I love you and how being committed to that person goes hand in hand. Phantagarae then provided a very eloquent reasoning for Penny's fear of commitment.

[tmp]

This is something that has not been emphasize enough and the writers seem to be determined to quietly show. For all the claims that Penny mooches food and Wifi, she has not gone through Leonard's money nor asked for gifts.as a gold digger would be expected to do.

 

So true.  In fact, remember The Dead Hooker Juxtaposition?  Penny chased off the neighbor who was taking advantage of the guys.  I liked that episode, because it showed that she was a true friend to all of them.

[eirwinrommel]

Well, sort of bonded. More like tolerate. Here are the last words of Dr. Beverly to Leonard and Penny:

 

Beverley: And I want you to take very good care of this young woman.

 

Penny: Oh, thank you, Beverly.

Beverley: You’re welcome. She doesn’t have much in the way of career

prospects, don’t make her responsible for her own orgasms as well.

 

I would not want that for a Mother-in-Law.

Well who would? But it's better than the outright hostility you might have had, or total indifference. It's probably the closest she could come to an endorsement. Who knows what she said about her other son's or her daughter's choices. On that note imagine her as a grandmother.

Edited January 24, 2013 by eirwinrommel

[eirwinrommel]

So true.  In fact, remember The Dead Hooker Juxtaposition?  Penny chased off the neighbor who was taking advantage of the guys.  I liked that episode, because it showed that she was a true friend to all of them.

I think Penny didn't act until it looked like Leonard might be targeted.

 

Penny: Uh, no. No, no, no, you know, congratulations, I think you’ll make a great hooker.

Alicia: Thank you. Hey, I got to ask you something, how much do physicists make?

Penny: Um, I don’t know, I don’t think a lot.

Alicia: Yeah, that’s what I figured. Well, got to run, the guys promised to set up my satellite dish and paint my bedroom. Yay!

 

I took this to mean that she was interested in Leonard (the other choice being Raj).

I also believe Penny looked at it the same way and the argument and fight was a result of Alicia being a threat over Leonard.

This was shortly before Penny said Leonard's name when getting frisky with Stuart and wanting him not to go on the monopolar expedition.

[Convict13]

Loving that the tables are turning on the L/P relationship,  My favourite line of the report

 

"Sheldon is VERY much impressed with this gift for Amy. So much so that he decides to keep it for himself."

typical Sheldon. 

 

And the shamy presents are both perfect, this looks like a nice fun episode.  Oh and nice to see Alex again.  I am sure they are reading these forums we seem to get everything we have ever wanted of late

 

We like Alex and hopes to appears in more episodes  = DONE

We hope they finally get Penny to invest in the L/P relationship = DONE

We hope they don't rush Shamy  = DONE

[Dbear12]

I think part of the problem has always been it seems that Penny is really only interested in Lenard when someone else is. 

 

Way back in season one she was upset when Lenard was with Lesley, but after it broke up she went back to having no interest.

 

This cycle became pronounced in season four when she rejected him publicly but then became interested in him again once he got a girlfriend.  Which to be honest came across as “I don’t’ want to play with him, but no one else can either” attitude. 

 

Granted in season four the writers seemed to have a mission to destroy Penny’s character.

 

Even in season six she was going to dump him because he was “boring” (ouch) and only changed her mind when Alex became interested.  It at times came across as a mistress pet relationship versus a man/woman one.

 

Fortunately, the later part of this season seems she is beginning to understand Lenard is important to her even if there is no immediate threat.

I am not saying Lenard is a saint or doesn’t have faults, but I give him a bit more leeway due to the simple fact that it has always been obvious if Penny wants him around he will stick, something that was not alwaysclear with how they wrote her.

But things now seem more stable between them and while I am sure there will be problems, but the threat of Penny throwing Lenard away is less and less.

Edited January 24, 2013 by Dbear12

[BangerMain]

I think part of the problem has always been it seems that Penny is really only interested in Lenard when someone else is. 

 

Way back in season one she was upset when Lenard was with Lesley, but after it broke up she went back to having no interest.

 

This cycle became pronounced in season four when she rejected him publicly but then became interested in him again once he got a girlfriend.  Which to be honest came across as “I don’t’ want to play with him, but no one else can either” attitude. 

 

Granted in season four the writers seemed to have a mission to destroy Penny’s character.

 

Even in season six she was going to dump him because he was “boring” (ouch) and only changed her mind when Alex became interested.  It at times came across as a mistress pet relationship versus a man/woman one.

 

Fortunately, the later part of this season seems she is beginning to understand Leonard is important to her even if there is no immediate threat.

I am not saying Leonard is a saint or doesn’t have faults, but I give him a bit more leeway due to the simple fact that it has always been obvious if Penny wants him around he will stick, something that was not always clear with how they wrote her.

But things now seem more stable between them and while I am sure there will be problems, but the threat of Penny throwing Lenard away is less and less.

 

The chance that Penny breaks up with Leonard now is approaching zero. As you stated, the writers have made Penny pretty self unaware over the seasons, especially during the Penny punishing fourth season, but this season has been about having her do some self analysis for the first time. She knows her life is miserable when he is not there to nurture her.

 

Yet, she only changes when she thinks she might lose him and still will not do the one thing that would assure she has him permanently. Leonard's qualities of devotion, fidelity and forgiveness work against his goal for Penny. She is maturing but still not enough to appreciate how fortunate she is.

Edited January 24, 2013 by BangerMain

[DPK]

As anyone who reads my posts knows full well that I am a strong Penny and Leonard fan. I never said Penny cheated. When I was discussing a lack of making a commitment and saying its like she is just waiting for someone better to come along. I was trying to understand how you can truly love someone yet are not willing to commit to that person. It goes back to the taping report when Penny appogizes to Leonard. She then explains that she sees him proposing to her and they get married and then she is "stuck" with him together forever. Isn't that what loves is about being together with person you say you love? I was trying to understand what Penny thinks saying you love someone really means. Therefore, I presented what I consider saying I love you and how being committed to that person goes hand in hand. Phantagarae then provided a very eloquent reasoning for Penny's fear of commitment.

 

Penny still has a very naive view on just what "real love" is. With the exception of Kurt, she's been involved in nothing by short term flings up until Leonard. I think the only reason she was with Kurt as long was for very shallow reasons. He represented the peak of the male specimen physically speaking. She was never going to get another guy as close to that physical "perfection" as Kurt so she stayed with him as long as she possibly good regardless of the fact that their relationship clearly had no substance at all.

 

In Penny's mind, forever is a long time. So the idea of being with anybody for that length of time scares her.

[phantagrae]

I think that part of the problem with how Penny has been written is that they have wanted to keep them from getting too serious too fast, since they have been the primary couple from the pilot onward.

I think they gave the audience the initial romance at the beginning of S3 because they had made progress in their friendship and affection up until that point, but then after letting them be together, pushing them apart again, though under not-too-severe circumstances, allowed them to play around with other ideas, go through a few different girlfriends and in the meantime push Penny further forward toward realizing the mistake she made in breaking up with Leonard.

 

I don't think it's just a matter of Penny not wanting anyone else to have Leonard.  I think that they've shown her struggle with the idea of real love, and what that means, and the difference between the kind of dating relationships she's always had and the kind of relationship that Leonard represents.

And Leonard has been pretty good about not taking advantage of Penny's weaknesses.  Though he has explored the possibilities of other relationships, since Penny rejected him, I think it's been clear that Penny is always going to be more important to him and be the one he trusts the most.

When he was upset about her having slept with Raj, he wasn't as mad at her (or Raj) as he might have been.  He was mostly confused about Priya leaving the country and unsure how he felt about Penny sleeping with Raj, since she was no longer his girlfriend and he wasn't trying (at that time) to get back together with her.

But when she came over and said that she was planning to move back to Nebraska, he was out of his chair trying to talk her out of it.

 

I do think that Penny has struggled with understanding what a good catch Leonard is because he's not the kind of guy she would normally have sought out.  But she has found that the kinds of guys she had dated before are now not smart enough for her--like we saw her coming up the stairs explaining Schrodinger's Cat to that one guy, and how she can no longer tolerate stupid guys like Zach.

It's kind of like when you're growing up and you have some list of traits for your "ideal guy" (or gal) and it's full of things like blond hair, 6 ft tall, rich doctor or lawyer, drives a Mercedes, etc.  Then you find yourself falling in love with a short little nerdy guy who knows way too much about Star Trek and video games and comic books, but who turns out to be sweet and loving and caring and smart and doesn't treat you like a tramp or a bimbo.

You may have to re-evaluate your list and figure out what's really important to you now that you're no longer a school girl.

 

Everyone's life is kind of like a jigsaw puzzle.  The pieces are made up of all the things in your life--where you work, who your friends are, what your hobbies and interests are, where you live, etc.

A lot of times you figure that you'll meet that special someone and he or she will be just the right size and shape to fit right into that empty spot in your puzzle and that nothing else will have to change (except perhaps the things you want to change.)  You may figure that the two of you will maybe move into a different apartment or maybe buy a house, but you don't imagine anything else changing--you want them to fit in with your friends and your hobbies and so forth.  You might even imagine that you'll accommodate a few of his or her friends.

But what usually happens is that your puzzle pieces and his or her puzzles pieces get all jumbled together until you figure out which ones fit and which ones don't and you end up making a completely different picture than you may have originally imagined.

 

I think that Penny has only recently begun to let go of some of her old puzzle pieces and start to imagine how her and Leonard's puzzles might combine.  It can be scary to upend your box of puzzle pieces and let go of the picture you thought you were making and imagine yourself in a whole new picture.

 

I think that's kind of where she has been heading and where she's finding herself now.

[Pomita]

Everyone's life is kind of like a jigsaw puzzle.  The pieces are made up of all the things in your life--where you work, who your friends are, what your hobbies and interests are, where you live, etc.

A lot of times you figure that you'll meet that special someone and he or she will be just the right size and shape to fit right into that empty spot in your puzzle and that nothing else will have to change (except perhaps the things you want to change.)  You may figure that the two of you will maybe move into a different apartment or maybe buy a house, but you don't imagine anything else changing--you want them to fit in with your friends and your hobbies and so forth.  You might even imagine that you'll accommodate a few of his or her friends.

But what usually happens is that your puzzle pieces and his or her puzzles pieces get all jumbled together until you figure out which ones fit and which ones don't and you end up making a completely different picture than you may have originally imagined.

 

This is officially one of the most beautiful pieces I've ever read, about relationships and how they work.

Edited January 24, 2013 by Pomita

[phantagrae]

This is officially one of the most beautiful pieces I've ever read, about relationships and how they work.

 

Aw, thanks, Pom.  I came up with this analogy all by myself many years ago.

 

You know, I've been eager to see the next script cover and all that, so I was poking around Bill Prady's twitter page and he recently posted something about looking for an article he'd seen before that had something to do with a behind-the-scenes look at Medieval Times and how some of the performers took it too seriously.

Makes one wonder...

[Pomita]

Excuse my ignorance, what is Medieval Times?

[phantagrae]

Excuse my ignorance, what is Medieval Times?

 

It's a themed restaurant.  I've never been to one, though I think my older sister went to one in Orlando or somewhere in Florida.

The waiters and waitresses are dressed in costume and the meal is supposed to be like an old time feast in a castle.

But down in the middle of the floor there are knights battling on horseback, etc., and a whole "medieval" show like that.

[Pomita]

That actually sounds interesting. Why would Prady be looking at a BTS report of that, you think? Could there be some idea taking birth, of medieval cosplay on the show?

[phantagrae]

That actually sounds interesting. Why would Prady be looking at a BTS report of that, you think? Could there be some idea taking birth, of medieval cosplay on the show?

 

That's what I was wondering about.  I dug around a little and found a couple of articles about the one in the Chicago area, I think, but nothing that sounded like what he was talking about.

Maybe Penny gets a job as a serving wench at Medieval Times?

 

I know the guys were talking about something similar when they went to the Renaissance Fair, but I don't know if they've mentioned MT on the show before.

[SRAM]

That's what I was wondering about.  I dug around a little and found a couple of articles about the one in the Chicago area, I think, but nothing that sounded like what he was talking about.

Maybe Penny gets a job as a serving wench at Medieval Times?

 

I know the guys were talking about something similar when they went to the Renaissance Fair, but I don't know if they've mentioned MT on the show before.

 

That would be really cute.  The guys and girls dressed up like in Medieval TImes.  The girls would make awesome wenches.

[tmp]

I can't remember the details, but in Garden State, Jim played a guy who worked at a place like that.  I think I remember him wearing a knight's outfit as a work uniform.