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Guest I'm not dead Cheryl

As for a S/P conflict where Amy will be torn between, that was actually on my mental AFF wishlist. Yes, FREAK OUT! *cue Chic song*

they already did it on The Infestation Hypothesis

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The Monster Isolation   Raj is sitting in an empty coffee shop with potential love interest, Lucy. He is talking about himself and where he has studied and that he is an astrophysicist. He stops tal

does "being hot" then equal being "better" then? Sorry, but I HATE that argument, saying that Sheldon could "do better" only because Amy is not "hot enough?". Because that's what you're saying.   Is

I think that part of the problem with how Penny has been written is that they have wanted to keep them from getting too serious too fast, since they have been the primary couple from the pilot onward.

I need to see it again now that Sheldon and Amy are officially dating and I need to see all three in the same room at the same time.

Penny and Sheldon at each other's throat while Amy freaks out because she needs them both. :D

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they already did it on The Infestation Hypothesis

Oh shit. You're right. My god.

But yeah, like Puppy chow, I wanna see something like that... but come episode 4 and we're gonna have that too... Amy kissed him on the forehead meaning she's ganging up with Penny but it's also a win/win situation for her because she got to kiss him. :p

I want something where she REALLY FREAKS OUT UBER NEUROTIC AMY THAT SHELDON AND PENNY HAVE TO DO SOMETHING TO GET HER OUT OF CRAZYTOWN.

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A big Thank You to Kyzzx for the spoiler report.

I like that Bernie is agreeing to move in with Howard's Mother. I believe there is more humor there than a Honeymoon pad. The Idea that Howard moved everything Out of his mother's house said he has grow up and committed to Bernie. The Penny hater's should love this episode because there isn't any L/P Drama. Raj & Stuart seem to be missing also.

.

I should have been more clear, sorry, Howard is still moved in at Bernadette's place but she just said they should sleep there for that one night. There's no indication that he's moving back in.

I was confused with the knock at Amy's door because Rae (from Fan Forum) said the third one was "Sad Amy". But anyway, it's still the same effect.

Aww, he called her the perfect blend of saint and squirrel.

I did write that? :p

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This is an open question for all: I know we are all concerned about the show getting stale and going through the same stuff over and over, but at what point do you just have to let some things go?

Jim is now Sheldon 2.0 and I think it's wonderful. We all know he's talented and he's just great at doing all these things that they are making Sheldon do, but I noticed a lot of people don't like it.

People do not stay the same and he still does the sharp-breath-intake-laugh (happened on the first opening during Fun With Flags in 6.7) and they are bringing back the *knock knock knock* because they only did it once in 6.2, did it once last week, and did it twice in 6.7. I like the new Sheldon because he's still ridiculous but he's not such a helpless man-child.

I just think wanting him to stay exactly the same is counterproductive to what we all ultimately want.

Edited by Kyzzx*
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Guest I'm not dead Cheryl

This is an open question for all: I know we are all concerned about the show getting stale and going through the same stuff over and over, but at what point do you just have to let some things go?

Jim is now Sheldon 2.0 and I think it's wonderful. We all know he's talented and he's just great at doing all these things that they are making Sheldon do, but I noticed a lot of people don't like it.

People do not stay the same and he still does the sharp-breath-intake-laugh (happened on the first opening during Fun With Flags in 6.7) and they are bringing back the *knock knock knock* because they only did it once in 6.2, did it once last week, and did it twice in 6.7. I like the new Sheldon because he's still ridiculous but he's not such a helpless man-child.

I just think wanting him to stay exactly the same is counterproductive to what we all ultimately want.

absolutely agree. I like Sheldon 1-0, I like Sheldon 2.0 and if there is a 3.0, 4.0 and 5.0 I will still like him. Becase he is still Sheldon to me, and TBH, other than a few details, he really hasn't changed THAT much.. And sure as heck I prefer what they're doing to his character over the de-volving they have done with Penny and Raj for example.

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This is an open question for all: I know we are all concerned about the show getting stale and going through the same stuff over and over, but at what point do you just have to let some things go?

Jim is now Sheldon 2.0 and I think it's wonderful. We all know he's talented and he's just great at doing all these things that they are making Sheldon do, but I noticed a lot of people don't like it.

People do not stay the same and he still does the sharp-breath-intake-laugh (happened on the first opening during Fun With Flags in 6.7) and they are bringing back the *knock knock knock* because they only did it once in 6.2, did it once last week, and did it twice in 6.7. I like the new Sheldon because he's still ridiculous but he's not such a helpless man-child.

I just think wanting him to stay exactly the same is counterproductive to what we all ultimately want.

Thanks!

I was just going to say that I don't see it as some kind of abrupt change in how he portrays Sheldon, but as a gradual development. If you assume that "real time" has passed between the introduction of Amy and Sheldon at the end of S3 and the beginning of S4 when Penny finds out Sheldon has had this not-my-girlfriend for 4 months, his transformation begins to make sense.

He wouldn't admit it, I'm sure, but it could be that this new friend who seems to be on the same wavelength as him, though still being different than him, has kind of opened him up from the tight-a$$ed little "bud" he was into a more open little flower, if you will.

Amy is very much like him in a lot of ways, and yet she has differing opinions and is strong enough to hold her own against him if she feels it's important. And we've seen, even from the Zazzy Substitution, that when they disagree, he's more likely to compromise or consider her point of view than he would be if the same suggestions were to come from any of the others.

In the 4th season he still had plenty of his usual Sheldon nonsensical behavior--his "ununravelable" story in the Irish Pub Formulation, his behavior in the Justice League Recombination, his insistence on Leonard pimping himself out in the Benefactor Factor, his panic attack at losing his virtual treasures in the Zarnecki Incursion, etc.

But through all of that he was beginning to soften around the edges, especially when he interacted with Amy.

I think that his changes really have been fairly gradual and organic. In the Skank Reflex Analysis, Sheldon is still kind of naive and silly in his attempt to analyze "Penny's brainteaser" and is still incredibly ridiculous in his behavior regarding Penny's "infested" chair (I love him running out of Penny's apartment in his underwear after having seen a bandaid in her shower!!)

THere are plenty of examples of Sheldon still being Sheldon throughout S5, but he's also growing as he realizes he doesn't want anyone else to have Amy, even going so far as to karate-chop Leonard to underscore that Amy was "not for you!" That is a big step for him, and I think, to some degree, almost subconscious. Has he ever hit anyone before? That's pretty primal, but it makes sense if he's got some instinctive, almost caveman-like desire to keep Amy as his own. Even when he didn't want to have to go to the wedding with Amy, the suggestion that Leonard might have done something with Amy that got his groin pulled causes this primal reaction in Sheldon.

I think that it's a masterful arc they're taking him on, from overgrown child to boy-man to adolescent toward manhood at some point, I assume.

I don't know that the producers or writers would have given JP such specific acting direction for the recent seasons. It could be that they've had some discussions about where they're going to take the characters once they decided to keep Amy as an ongoing character back in S4, but since Prady and Lorre have said that they don't really plan out the whole season ahead of time like Lost or whatever, I doubt that they'd tell JP how to portray his character.

It could be that in discussions in the read-through that the quesiton may arise of what the writers might have in mind as far as Sheldon's behavior, and I can see where they might talk about that specifically in the Staircase Implementation, since that dealt specifically with sending all the characters back to what they might have been like back then.

And I think that that point goes to underscore the idea of growth in the characters. Obviously the other guys have influenced Sheldon from what he was like when Leonard first moved in to what he was like when Penny first met them all, to what he has become up until he met Amy, to what he is becoming now that he's in a romantic relationship.

If you're not growing, you're dying.

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Guest I'm not dead Cheryl

I think there is also a lot of different people having a whole set of pre-established rules of what "Sheldon is" or what "Sheldon should be" that is not always necessarily the same set of "pre-established rules" that the writers have. After all, neither of us has ever seen the Character Page that the writers of the show use.

I am sure that if we all enumerate Sheldon's character's traits (or any character's for that matter), most of us we will not coincide 100% or even to a 70%. Because each and any of us has a pre-conception on how "he should act" that each of us think it's right... but we're not the writers.

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I think there is also a lot of different people having a whole set of pre-established rules of what "Sheldon is" or what "Sheldon should be" that is not always necessarily the same set of "pre-established rules" that the writers have. After all, neither of us has ever seen the Character Page that the writers of the show use.

I am sure that if we all enumerate Sheldon's character's traits (or any character's for that matter), most of us we will not coincide 100% or even to a 70%. Because each and any of us has a pre-conception on how "he should act" that each of us think it's right... but we're not the writers.

Exactly.

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Not so sure because Sheldon started with many pre-established rules himself. So any comments about how he 'should be' come from direct observation of the character. What we have today is a radical change in personality. I agree that Jim is fantastic and I enjoy watching him play any style of Sheldon because I like the actor so much, but if I'm honest this new Sheldon is not the same person. The only thing that blur the lines between the old and the new, are the use of his previous idiocracies. The knocking for example and some of his vocabulary. I know people change, but I feel Jim is injecting more of himself in to this character now. So I'm loath to say I don't like it, because of course I do! Personally I think the original way Sheldon was portrayed was absolute genius and untouchable. This softer Sheldon is really great and cute as heck, but quite different.

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Not so sure because Sheldon started with many pre-established rules himself. So any comments about how he 'should be' come from direct observation of the character. What we have today is a radical change in personality. I agree that Jim is fantastic and I enjoy watching him play any style of Sheldon because I like the actor so much, but if I'm honest this new Sheldon is not the same person. The only thing that blur the lines between the old and the new, are the use of his previous idiocracies. The knocking for example and some of his vocabulary. I know people change, but I feel Jim is injecting more of himself in to this character now. So I'm loath to say I don't like it, because of course I do! Personally I think the original way Sheldon was portrayed was absolute genius and untouchable. This softer Sheldon is really great and cute as heck, but quite different.

But just because Sheldon behaved a certain way to begin with doesn't mean that he can only ever be that way and still be Sheldon. I think that if you take one episode from S5 and compare it to one episode from S1 you're bound to see a difference, but that doesn't mean that the difference is abrupt or unnatural. If you watch all the episodes in succession you're bound to see some ups and downs, but also a more gradual change over time, just as there has been in all the characters.

I think the greatest danger, which leads to dissatisfaction for some, is in putting the show or a character in a "box" and saying it can only ever be this way or else it's NOT RIGHT!!!!

In the X-Files Fandom there were people who objected whenever there was a funny episode because they insisted that TXF was supposed to be scary, not funny!! Or it should only be about the mytharc and not about all these monsters and mutants. Or it has to be dark and wet and that the episodes shot in California just weren't right because they didn't look right, etc.

My only real objection was when they got to the last two seasons of the show, but there was so much WRONG going on at that point that it was ridiculous.

At any rate, I don't think that the writers/producers have any kind of real show bible--it doesn't seem so, anyway. I think they allow themselves to kind of push and pull the characters around a bit depending on what's going on in the episode. That's why there are inconsistencies here and there throughout the series.

But I think that Sheldon continues to make sense, even if he's changed. There have been several influences and experiences that have been brought to bear upon him and I think one can logically infer that the changes make sense. I don't know that Jim is injecting that much of himself into the character, but I do think that as Sheldon has become involved with Amy, her influence has modified Sheldon.

I don't really see a "radical change in personality" as much as I see that they're putting Sheldon into situations where he's had to grow or change in order to continue with what he wants or likes.

If he has to swallow his pride and apologize to Amy in order to stay in her good graces, then he has to decide if it's important enough to him to do so. S1-3 Sheldon might have not cared about her feelings or about trying to maintain a relationship with her (see Ramona in the Nowitzky episode), but S4-5 and now S6 Sheldon has decided that he likes her enough and wants her in his life enough so that he will do what he has to do to make amends when he hurts her or offends her, etc.

That is different, but he's been on this path for some time, beginning with his interactions with Penny and how they went from mere neighbors and acquaintences to actual friends and sometime confidants.

Edited by phantagrae

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Kyzzx - thanks for the report!

The episode seems sweet and very funny. I found myself giggling all through the scenes with Sheldon going to Penny, getting drunk and visiting Wheaton (his poor bushes). :D

Lots of warm feelings for Sheldon's comments about Amy throughout the episode, and the way he gets a moment of self-awareness and really tries to make things right with Amy. On the other hand (surprise, surprise) for once I felt that Amy was in the wrong here, too, and really behaved rudely with Sheldon's guests, putting him in a spot. I felt sorry for him - I'd say he had just as much reason to be upset with her as her with him, and I would have liked to see her realize that. But I think it's ok since we've already seen a lot of how much Amy has to put up with - it was time to feel some sympathy for Sheldon, for a change, and to show how much he cares and values her, even if he's socially and emotionally clueless.

I'm not quite sure how I feel about the Howard/Bernadette storyline, but I enjoyed the lines between the guys in Howard's bedroom, and the story about Howard's magic and his mother was somehow rather touching.

Regarding the changes in Sheldon, I completely agree with Kyzzx, Sursonica and Phantagrae. I don't see any abrupt or unrealistic change at all - it's been a gradual journey of growth towards greater social and emotional awareness (and it started much before Amy or season 5). He still has a long way to go, and is still just as delightfully weird and awkward as he always was in most ways, so there certainly hasn't been any loss of comedic value for me - just the added satisfaction of seeing him grope his way into greater depth and complexity.

Edited by Pomita
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Not so sure because Sheldon started with many pre-established rules himself. So any comments about how he 'should be' come from direct observation of the character. What we have today is a radical change in personality. I agree that Jim is fantastic and I enjoy watching him play any style of Sheldon because I like the actor so much, but if I'm honest this new Sheldon is not the same person. The only thing that blur the lines between the old and the new, are the use of his previous idiocracies. The knocking for example and some of his vocabulary. I know people change, but I feel Jim is injecting more of himself in to this character now. So I'm loath to say I don't like it, because of course I do! Personally I think the original way Sheldon was portrayed was absolute genius and untouchable. This softer Sheldon is really great and cute as heck, but quite different.

Agreed. I feel the same way.

Monique

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Not so sure because Sheldon started with many pre-established rules himself. So any comments about how he 'should be' come from direct observation of the character. What we have today is a radical change in personality. I agree that Jim is fantastic and I enjoy watching him play any style of Sheldon because I like the actor so much, but if I'm honest this new Sheldon is not the same person. The only thing that blur the lines between the old and the new, are the use of his previous idiocracies. The knocking for example and some of his vocabulary. I know people change, but I feel Jim is injecting more of himself in to this character now. So I'm loath to say I don't like it, because of course I do! Personally I think the original way Sheldon was portrayed was absolute genius and untouchable. This softer Sheldon is really great and cute as heck, but quite different.

Actually, I do see the difference which you describe as being 'softer', but I see him being that way mostly when he's actually around Amy. I think the implication is that he's literally 'a different person around her' because (in his own odd way) he's in love with her - the almost flirtiatious smiles, the enthusiasm, the extra twinkle in his eyes. And as you say, that attitude does contain shades of Jim's own charm, which is probably intentional.

Besides, some of that light-heartedness gets reflected at times in his behavior in general, like when he seems to laugh out loud for no good reason in the cafetaria. But for the most part, in his interactions with the others (Leonard, Penny, Howard, even Stuart), he's almost exactly the same as he always was - clueless and condescending.

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THere are plenty of examples of Sheldon still being Sheldon throughout S5, but he's also growing as he realizes he doesn't want anyone else to have Amy, even going so far as to karate-chop Leonard to underscore that Amy was "not for you!" That is a big step for him, and I think, to some degree, almost subconscious. Has he ever hit anyone before? That's pretty primal, but it makes sense if he's got some instinctive, almost caveman-like desire to keep Amy as his own. Even when he didn't want to have to go to the wedding with Amy, the suggestion that Leonard might have done something with Amy that got his groin pulled causes this primal reaction in Sheldon.

That karate chop was actually a big move, like you've said. He hasn't hit anybody, it seems, even if he was ultimately mad at them. Remember when he tried to blow up Leonard's head? When he was annoying Penny? When Raj brought in the Brobdingnagian desk? He was his neurotic self. But yes, his action with Leonard with regards to "his woman" was downright primal, that it was his territorial instinct kicking it. That episode was so ironic as heck, that he was acting like a child all throughout but then that little comment from Leonard that he misinterpreted as something sexual (which is also a cheat for the writers, as I've said in the other forum that they could choose which innuendos he could understand) got past through that thick layer of manchild so fast he didn't think twice about giving Leonard a "warning" shot.

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Not so sure because Sheldon started with many pre-established rules himself. So any comments about how he 'should be' come from direct observation of the character. What we have today is a radical change in personality. I agree that Jim is fantastic and I enjoy watching him play any style of Sheldon because I like the actor so much, but if I'm honest this new Sheldon is not the same person. The only thing that blur the lines between the old and the new, are the use of his previous idiocracies. The knocking for example and some of his vocabulary. I know people change, but I feel Jim is injecting more of himself in to this character now. So I'm loath to say I don't like it, because of course I do! Personally I think the original way Sheldon was portrayed was absolute genius and untouchable. This softer Sheldon is really great and cute as heck, but quite different.

I agree with your sentiment - original Sheldon is absolutely untouchable.

In a way, I think it's really cool that we can look back on it, though. You know what I mean? Pop in a season 1 DVD and just go, "Oh my goodness, look at how he was before!" and re-live it all over again instead of just running it into the ground.

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I was at the taping Tuesday night. They tape at Stage 25, I note this because the movies Casablanca and Giant were filmed in that space. The synopsis above is good and accurate. The taping lasted from 6-8:30. It was an early finish. None of the cast members stayed for autographs (everyone is busy but it does not hurt to stay a little longer for an autograph for fans.) What I found out later is that this episode marked a point where they were all going on hiatus or a short vacation from taping.

I love the show but Kaley's spell over me is broken. In her only scene in the taping (Sheldon & Penny in the Cheesecake Factory) she messed up her lines several times. It strikes me that someone making 200,000 dollars an episode would be spot on with their lines.

On the other hand, watching Jim Parsons work was an amazing experiance. He is a master of the art. If you get to see a taping, go to see Jim work his magic and never take your eyes off of him. There is an MC that keeps the energy going when they do set changes and he does a great job but dont let him distract you from what is happening below: watch Jim at all times it is amazing.

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Thanks for the feedback! I would love to be able to see Jim's way of working. But since that's very unlikely, I'm happy just to hear your descriptions. :)

I don't want this to sound insulting to the other actors' abilities but Jim Parsons makes the other actors look like children. He is simply that good, a total package of physical comedy, facial expression and verbal timing. He is the center of attention and this sensation of attention is not as apparent on TV as it is in person.

I feel for you, not being able to go in person.

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You are correct it really isn't true relationship drama. Now that Penny & Leonard appear to be moving to that ILY next level. It's time for Sheldon & Amy to break up for say about 2 years and date other people. Sound like a good relationship drama?

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I love the show but Kaley's spell over me is broken. In her only scene in the taping (Sheldon & Penny in the Cheesecake Factory) she messed up her lines several times. It strikes me that someone making 200,000 dollars an episode would be spot on with their lines.

On the other hand, watching Jim Parsons work was an amazing experiance. He is a master of the art. If you get to see a taping, go to see Jim work his magic and never take your eyes off of him. There is an MC that keeps the energy going when they do set changes and he does a great job but dont let him distract you from what is happening below: watch Jim at all times it is amazing.

Not to knock you on your opinion or anything, but after having been to multiple tapings, Kaley is usually the best of them all. Of course, her lines are 'easier' than the others because she doesn't get a lot of the science jargon or any big words, but normally she knows all her lines and doesn't even have to look.

Jim, on the other hand, had an exceptional week. Everyone did, I think, including Wil, considering the substance of the episode and all the dialogue that's going on.

I can't disagree that Jim is incredible. This episode will simply send him over the edge because of how much they are having Sheldon branch out as a character, and I think it is something that people will really notice when it finally airs on TV. Since all eyes are pretty much on him anyway, and he's the fan favorite, I think most people will realize that he is one talented dude that's just more than "that's my spot, you can't sit there."

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I was at the taping Tuesday night. They tape at Stage 25, I note this because the movies Casablanca and Giant were filmed in that space. The synopsis above is good and accurate. The taping lasted from 6-8:30. It was an early finish. None of the cast members stayed for autographs (everyone is busy but it does not hurt to stay a little longer for an autograph for fans.) What I found out later is that this episode marked a point where they were all going on hiatus or a short vacation from taping.

I love the show but Kaley's spell over me is broken. In her only scene in the taping (Sheldon & Penny in the Cheesecake Factory) she messed up her lines several times. It strikes me that someone making 200,000 dollars an episode would be spot on with their lines.

On the other hand, watching Jim Parsons work was an amazing experiance. He is a master of the art. If you get to see a taping, go to see Jim work his magic and never take your eyes off of him. There is an MC that keeps the energy going when they do set changes and he does a great job but dont let him distract you from what is happening below: watch Jim at all times it is amazing.

so kaley mess up her lines, do you watch

the gag reels on the dvd's?

jim is the master all right- he is on the most.

the cast mess up all the time, the show

i went 2 did not leave until 10:15 they did a lot

of takes over.

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