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They really need to spend some time on Penny, I never thought I'd be more confused as to what her deal is than Sheldon's. She needs to do some more substantial growing up this season, I'm starting to feel like her constant insecurity regarding commitment is getting a bit old as an excuse to drag things out. Can't they come up with something else? 

I totally agree with you. She should be getting over this because it has now gone on too long.

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I agree to a certain extent.  While they have known each other for a long time they are only roughly six months into their new relationship (give or take).  Add that to the eight months they dated in season 3 and we have fourteen or a year and two months.  That's not a very long time to be in a relationship continuously.  We know Penny is insecure, we know she's scared of losing Leonard, and we know she loves him (she even says so in episode 15).  These things are what the writers have given us, I think we should focus on how they could fix that.

 

For example, This idea has been discussed a little bit before but now that Penny admits she loves Leonard but isn't quite ready to move in with him yet, I say that its time for the writers to stack the deck a little bit.  I mean force her hand.  Have something happen to Penny's apartment, anything really; pipes bursting, small fire, mold, insects, anything that would render a place uninhabitable for no more than two months.  This would leave Penny with little option besides living with Sheldon and Leonard because she wouldn't be able to afford anything else while her place is fixed.  This would give L/P the chance to feel what living together would be like, let them test out if they can handle it and if they're ready.  This would give us two maybe three episodes of her in their apartment before things went back to normal and could eventually lead to Penny asking Leonard to move in when she realizes she misses being with him all the time.

 

Now this is all speculation provided that the valentines day episode goes well.  Simply a way that could move the relationship along.

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I was thinking more of making her assert her commitment to Leonard but emphasize that there are other parts of her life she wants to work on before she settles down. It's great that she's gone back to school but they aren't really devoting that much time on her as a person rather than as the girlfriend. That's why I was saying in the I'd love to see thread that after having 2+ years of her being the one who brings Amy and Bernadette over to the party-side of life they could reverse the roles and have them bring her over to the other side, grow her up a little, give her some ambitions. They can then drag out the L/P relationship while she "grows up". I agree that all in all they haven't been together all that long, and it's fine that she feels it's too soon to move in together (besides the fact that it would change the show a bit too much too soon), but what I mean by commitment is emotional commitment rather than making life-changing decisions with him. 

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This is true as well.  She does have to figure out what shes doing with her own life before she will ever be happy with her relationship status.  I do hope also, that they bring up her schooling a little bit more maybe make it a bigger part or even have her take a few extra classes.  Anything to help build her self esteem a little, and with some help from amy and bernie I'm sure they could begin to sand away at the rough edges left around Penny's exterior

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I think it's unfair to say that Penny "doesn't want" Leonard, or that she doesn't act as if she does.

 

I think that she definitely wanted him back in S3, they just hit a snag because of her issues.  And now, while she does love him, I think that she really doesn't know what it means in some ways.  I think that's what was behind her "boring kind of love" comment early in the season.

 

Her experience with relationships hasn't been very mature--she's had flings, boyfriends who turned out to be jerks, etc., and hasn't really had a mature, grown-up relationship.  I found it interesting in the Russian Rocket ep that she asked Bernie, who was already engaged to Howard, if she was 100% sure she loved and wanted to marry Howard.  So Penny was looking at their spat as a possible deal-breaker, or wondering if Bernie, with whatever reservations she was having at the moment, could be sure that she loved Howard, even though she was engaged.

 

I don't know if that was because Penny still thinks of Howard as being somewhat ridiculous, or if she thought that Bernie was still at a point where she could back out.  She said something similar in another episode, where Bernie said something, in reference to S&A, like, "I guess they're not engaged like me and Howie".  Penny said something along the lines of Bernie still being able to look around for someone else.

 

At any rate, I think that her inexperience with solid relationships coupled with her need for personal growth or soldification of her life is plenty of reason for her to not be ready for something like Leonard pushing his way into her apartment.

 

I think that it would be nice if we got a combination of Penny taking more classes and also her getting some small acting successes--like another commercial, a bit part in a TV show or small movie.  Nothing that would make her famous or really change her financial situation, but just enough to give her some confidence in her career ambitions.

 

I remember that my older sister struggled with what to do with her life from about her sophomore/junior year in college until maybe 15 years later.  She quit school to get married (WRONG guy!) and then ended up doing some creative but low-paying work.

It wasn't until she finally came back home and went to art school--to put her natural talents to work--that her sense of self really began to solidify.  Her overall mood and demeanor really changed as she began to really feel fulfilled for the first time in more than a decade.

 

I think that if Penny saw some small success in her chosen field, that would go a long way to making her more at ease with herself, and subsequently could make her more at ease with her life overall, including her relationship with Leonard.

I think that her love for him is just so unusual and so different from what she may have thought of as love before that she doesn't quite know how to understand it.  I think she's just still getting used to the idea that her relationship with Leonard could be the real thing, and that everything she'd experienced before was just "sparks", but no lasting fire.  Kindling, but no logs.

I could continue that metaphor, but it might start sounding dirty--i.e., Leonard is her log... :p

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I've been listening to music while I'm here at work and one song kind of reminded me of Penny and her relationship with Leonard.

The lyrics probably don't hold true in every regard, but it did remind me of the Lenny a bit.

It's "Love you Madly" by Cake:

 

I don't want to wonder if this is a blunder

I don't want to worry whether we're going to stay together 'til we die

I don't want to jump in unless this music's thumping

All the dishes rattle in the cupboards when the elephants arrive

 

I want to love you madly

I want to love you now

I want to love you madly

I want to love you, love you

Love you madly

 

I don't want to fake it; I just want to make it

The ornaments look pretty but they're pulling down the branches of the tree

I don't want to think about it, I don't want to talk about it

When I kiss your lips I want to sink down to the bottom of the sea

 

(Chorus)

 

I don't want to hold back, I don't want to slip down

I don't want to think back to the one thing that I know I should have done

I don't want to doubt you, know everyhting about you

I don't want to sit across the table from you wishing I coud run

 

(Chorus)

Edited by phantagrae
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I always saw the Penny and Leonard love story as two virgins to love finding each other. Leonard didn't really have real love till Penny and I don't think Penny had ever experienced real love, it was more of confusing lust with love for her. Her trying to describe her lust as love is why I think she made that new boring kind of love statement. So they are both in love with each other and Penny is having trouble understanding that this is what love is, it is long term, not finite, like her previous relationships.

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They really need to spend some time on Penny, I never thought I'd be more confused as to what her deal is than Sheldon's. She needs to do some more substantial growing up this season, I'm starting to feel like her constant insecurity regarding commitment is getting a bit old as an excuse to drag things out. Can't they come up with something else? 

 

I agree that there needs to be some serious growth with Penny, but I'd just like to say that in the latest taping, there is NO sign of Penny actually being afraid of commitment.

 

When Leonard says he's moving in, she actually doesn't ever say "no" because she cares about him enough to not want to hurt his feelings by saying the wrong thing about it, because she actually ISN'T opposed to them moving in together. She just says she wasn't ready and he just wishes he'd ask her first.

I don't know about anyone else, but imagine dating someone for years that lived right across the hall from you. There'd have to be a pretty damn good reason for me to want to move in with them, especially if there's nothing wrong with the current living arrangement.

I found that everyone in the episode handled themselves very maturely compared to what we have seen in the past. Really, the 'bad' thing in the episode was done by Sheldon when he told Amy that it was "Penny's fault" even after he and Penny actually bonded over the fact that they BOTH don't want to move in with their SOs just yet. Sheldon is more scared than Penny, which is to be expected, but I actually thought there was a lot of growth in this episode.

 

* Penny not freaking out about where their relationship is.

* Sheldon telling Penny that they should just tell them the truth.

* Sheldon not actually telling Amy the truth because he was afraid of hurting her feelings!

* Sheldon and Penny bonding over how logical their SOs were when proposing the move-ins (mind you, this is the episode after Sheldon accepts his research is far behind Kripke's, where he displays liking for Amy hugging him, and admitting to Penny of ALL PEOPLE that he might get physical with Amy sometime in the future.) I think it clearly demonstrates that Penny cares (probably was also just curious) about Sheldon as well as Amy, and Sheldon actually opened up to her, and then Penny thanks him because she knows it was hard for him to do.

* Sheldon not being able to argue with Amy even though we KNOW him as someone who will argue even if he is totally wrong.

 

I'm happy at the pace this is going, and they're moving more quickly all the time, so we'll see soon enough, I think.

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So does anyone think Amy will really move in with Penny?  Or, is it one of those things they leave as a joke and never return to it again?

 

I'm sure it's just a throw-away joke, made to put a ! on the whole thing.  I don't think they're going to mess with the living arrangements and Penny only has a one-bedroom apartment.

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I was thinking more of making her assert her commitment to Leonard but emphasize that there are other parts of her life she wants to work on before she settles down. It's great that she's gone back to school but they aren't really devoting that much time on her as a person rather than as the girlfriend. That's why I was saying in the I'd love to see thread that after having 2+ years of her being the one who brings Amy and Bernadette over to the party-side of life they could reverse the roles and have them bring her over to the other side, grow her up a little, give her some ambitions. They can then drag out the L/P relationship while she "grows up". I agree that all in all they haven't been together all that long, and it's fine that she feels it's too soon to move in together (besides the fact that it would change the show a bit too much too soon), but what I mean by commitment is emotional commitment rather than making life-changing decisions with him. 

In a way they already did. The reason Penny visited Leonard on the Halloween ep is because they urged her to visit Leonard at work.

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I agree that there needs to be some serious growth with Penny, but I'd just like to say that in the latest taping, there is NO sign of Penny actually being afraid of commitment.

 

When Leonard says he's moving in, she actually doesn't ever say "no" because she cares about him enough to not want to hurt his feelings by saying the wrong thing about it, because she actually ISN'T opposed to them moving in together. She just says she wasn't ready and he just wishes he'd ask her first.

I don't know about anyone else, but imagine dating someone for years that lived right across the hall from you. There'd have to be a pretty damn good reason for me to want to move in with them, especially if there's nothing wrong with the current living arrangement.

I found that everyone in the episode handled themselves very maturely compared to what we have seen in the past. Really, the 'bad' thing in the episode was done by Sheldon when he told Amy that it was "Penny's fault" even after he and Penny actually bonded over the fact that they BOTH don't want to move in with their SOs just yet. Sheldon is more scared than Penny, which is to be expected, but I actually thought there was a lot of growth in this episode.

 

* Penny not freaking out about where their relationship is.

* Sheldon telling Penny that they should just tell them the truth.

* Sheldon not actually telling Amy the truth because he was afraid of hurting her feelings!

* Sheldon and Penny bonding over how logical their SOs were when proposing the move-ins (mind you, this is the episode after Sheldon accepts his research is far behind Kripke's, where he displays liking for Amy hugging him, and admitting to Penny of ALL PEOPLE that he might get physical with Amy sometime in the future.) I think it clearly demonstrates that Penny cares (probably was also just curious) about Sheldon as well as Amy, and Sheldon actually opened up to her, and then Penny thanks him because she knows it was hard for him to do.

* Sheldon not being able to argue with Amy even though we KNOW him as someone who will argue even if he is totally wrong.

 

I'm happy at the pace this is going, and they're moving more quickly all the time, so we'll see soon enough, I think.

 

This is all very interesting, Kyzzx, thanks so much for your insight! :) Makes me feel much better about the episode. 

Edited by spook
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Penny has grated on my nerves a bit at times. Her redeeming factor is how she treats Sheldon. The episodes where she mothers him are truly sweet. They seem to have such a profound friendship; one I can actually respect....

 

That having been said: On another forum some people were going on and on and (yes) on about her kissing him in TREM implying that Penny wanted to hold Sheldon down and kiss him repeatedly. Uh. She kisses him like an adult teases a child and somehow that leads to Shenny Shipping? Excuse me while I vomit! Normally I can get along with the Shenny Shippers; I respect them but that is just downright disgusting.

For Penny this Series I would really like to hear about why she has such commitment issues with Leonard. Give her something! For the gods sake. Something. A dad that was a uni teacher and slept with an attractive intelligent student and left the family only to later return. I mean we've met her dad and he seems like a nice guy but at the moment all we have is his inability to accept the fact she developed and frankly that isn't going to cut it as far as her issues go.

 

Hell, I'd even take an ex-fiance who was more intelligent than her sleeping with a fellow student at uni and breaking her heart. Some legitimate reason for her profound fear of commitment other than: She is too young and immature at the moment.

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* Sheldon not being able to argue with Amy even though we KNOW him as someone who will argue even if he is totally wrong.

 

You think so?  I don't know.  We've seen him argue over physics, comic books, movies, etc but when there's a real fight he more often than not seems to be the one to end it.  He offered Howard his spot (made me cry) to make up for ruining his security clearance, was desperate to end his fight with Leonard in TFC, and seems tortured in his fights with Amy until he wins her forgiveness. 

 

I do find it significant that he didn't want to hurt Amy's feelings.  Normally he's just honest and seems oblivious to anyone's feelings.

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